EV Digest 6357
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) (no subject)
by "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) nikki's posts screwing up digest, was Re: Strange EVDL goings-on
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Debating purchasing an EV
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Mobile solar EV
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE:
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Cor: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
by Jerry McIntire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: why is there no chance for economical cars .. howso true ?
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a Terminal
Get? Not very, it shouldn't!)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: I Need You to Blitz GM Like Never Before, More Comments
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) different kind of storage for electicity
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Fw: [HotAirEngineSociety-HAES] Speaking of "Game Changing" Breakthroughs .
. .
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Debating purchasing an EV
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: different kind of storage for electicity
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Mobile solar EV
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) EEstor, was: different kind of storage for electicity
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a Terminal
Get? Not very, it shouldn't!)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> There is no way to build functional LED headlights. Already did the
> equations. Look on the archives.
> LEDs are actually not substantially more efficient than well-designed
> halogens. They can easily be less efficient. I know that runs contrary
> to intuition, but it is quite true.
>
> Danny
Totally impossible, like the ones that come stock in the 2007 Lexus?
http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/12/lexus-debuts-20072007-lexus-ls-600h-l/
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Space System Engineering and Optical Design
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
Speaking of people's posts that screw up the digest files, nikki posted and
the following 12 posts were all in one file. It's a pain when you want to
search on a subject...
BB
From: nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:23:40 +0000
To: [email protected]
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=US-ASCII;
delsp=yes;
format=flowed
Hi There,
One of the EVA DC guys has a RAV4 EV insured through Nationwide. I'll
email you his email address separately.
Nikki.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
----
>Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:53:51 -0800
>From: Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Strange EVDL goings-on
>
>Stranage... EV Digest # 6342 headers says there are 25 messages..
>
>Yet I gets the first one ( from Charles Wahlen )
>and part of the Second one ( from a Randy Burleson
>
>but then THIS and no more...............
<snip>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It sounds like you are talking about this truck on the EVAlbum.
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/index.php?method=showdetails&list=advertisement&rollid=1285
I have considered purchasing that many times myself. The primary reason I
have not is that it is in Vermont and I am in Vancouver Washington. I'm not
to hip on buying something sight unseen from someone I do not know and then
having to ship it clear across the country or I likely would have bought it
already. Of course it also worries me that the seller thinks it is too
gutless to climb his hill on a 120 volt pack of of SAFT STM 180s, but that
is due to the 550amp Curtis controller.
You are in Florida, so hill climbing will not be an issue. Over all I think
it looks like a good buy. If I were to buy it I would seriously consider
having the seller put the NiCads back in the truck and paying the $16500 he
originally was asking. Those batteries are some of the best available for
EVs that are that can be purchased at a reasonable price. Of course I am in
a cooler climate than you, which is an advantage for the Nicads, and I have
some experience using NiCads, so I would be less likely to ruin them and
throwing away $10,700. Most first time EV owners go through their first set
of batteries very quickly through abuse. You will probably do better as a
new EV'r in Florida to load it up with a set of Golf Cart batteries.
In summary I would say if you are serious about owning an EV, this looks
like a great place to start.
As far as alternatives, no one in or around Florida should buy an EV without
first checking with Steve Clunn at http://www.grassrootsev.com/ and seeing
what he has available. Steve is one of our most experienced EV list members
and he has always got a couple of EVs laying around he would love to sell
you. If I lived close to Steve, I would buy one of his conversions. With
his passion for EVs there is no way you could go wrong. It's uncomfirmed,
but I've heard a rumor that he legally adopts anyone he sells an EV to and
includes them in his Will :-)
Damon
From: Jay Paroline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Debating purchasing an EV
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 02:31:48 -0500
Hello,
I am new to this list, and new to the world of EV's in general, but not new
to the idea of trying to save gas and use modes of transportation that are
more eco-friendly. I was commuting on a motorcycle for a while, but a 70mph
brush with death on the freeway has me back in 4 wheels. Public
transportation isn't available and riding a bicycle isn't practical for
every day, which brings me to EV's.
The EV community seems to be full of DIY-ers, with most people taking a
traditional ICE car and ripping out everything ICE related. I applaud those
people, but I also remember the battle I lost with my car when I tried to
replace the starter. I am not mechanically inclined, and I have no illusion
of being able to remove an engine and all related parts, and then install
something new that would actually function safely. Hence, I am considering
buying a vehicle that someone else has converted. The particular vehicle
I'm considering is a 1994 Chevy S-10 that was converted from the factory as
part of a business venture that didn't work out. It has only 6,000 miles on
it and, according to my father who looked at it, is in perfect condition
having been stored in a garage. The reason it hasn't been used much is that
the owner lives on the top of a mountain, in VT (where my parents also
live). I'm in FL, so I have no way to look at it myself. The owner is
asking $5,800 without batteries.
My questions are:
1. What sort of questions should I ask before buying?
2. Is $5,800 a reasonable price for such a vehicle? Is it reasonable to pay
that much, plus another $850 to have it shipped, plus another $2,000+ to
put batteries in it?
3. If something breaks, how hard is it going to be for me to get it running
again? I am fairly technical and understand electronics fairly well, much
better than mechanical stuff anyway, and the truck supposedly comes with
all the original design information, but I recognize that there may be
problems I can't diagnose. If that happens, what do I do? Have any of you
had difficulty figuring out what's wrong with your EV and getting it
working? What did you do? $8,000-10,000 is an awful lot of money to pay for
a vehicle that could stop working and become unfixable, and for that much
money I'd need to be sure it would last me a long time.
4. Is there a better alternative? In all honesty I don't need a truck, a
small car (even a Commutacar) would suffice as long as it's capable of at
least 40mph, I just haven't seen anything like that even remotely close to
where I live, or close to my parents so I would have to buy it sight
unseen.
Any suggestions would be wonderful. I am also perusing the archives and
will see if I find anything useful there.
Thanks!
_________________________________________________________________
Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count.
http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_donation&FORM=WLMTAG
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have 68 Ovshinsky Uni-Solar panels on my roof feeding my house and EV.
I am looking for a flat flexible 12 volt panel to put on the EV.
It will allow me to pull the plug-in relay that connects my DC/DC converter.
Solar can charge my 12v deep cycle battery.
I do not drive at night, have no heater or A/C.
I can remove the frame from the panels I have (I repaired one)
but have not investigated how to remove the junction box.
The panels are flexible on a stainless steel backing.
One even looks like it took a bullet, leaving a 1/2 inch crater,
but it still works with full output. No glass!
John in Sylmar, CA
PV EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ahh, but as Danny was saying, are they more efficient than Halogens? I.e.
how many lumens output per watt input.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
---------------------------------------------------
See the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Check the EVDL Archives: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
Check out the EV Photo Album: www.evalbum.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian M. Sutin
Sent: January 28, 2007 6:25 PM
To: EV List
Subject:
> There is no way to build functional LED headlights. Already did the
> equations. Look on the archives.
> LEDs are actually not substantially more efficient than well-designed
> halogens. They can easily be less efficient. I know that runs contrary
> to intuition, but it is quite true.
>
> Danny
Totally impossible, like the ones that come stock in the 2007 Lexus?
http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/12/lexus-debuts-20072007-lexus-ls-600h-l
/
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Space System Engineering and Optical Design
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor,
I am wanting to insure it for more than just liability, since it is
worth so much.
The Hartford has assured me they would pay its true value if I carry
comprehensive and collision. I may check into liability alone
though, since the premium gets steep for comp and collision.
You all are so helpful-- Dave Brandt just let me know that Safeco
wrote coverage for his EV! I'm going to talk with them (my current
insurer) again because I have never found lower rates than theirs.
Jerry
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
thank you chuck .. the views are a bit surprising :
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hays" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
....
> The auto industry guy in the first part seems to be
> saying that the reason they won't make electric
> cars is because people don't want to buy them in
> large enough quantities to make it economic.
how true can this be ?
....
> Porsche and Audi have long associations with
> race cars and racing and the image of an electric
> econobox just doesn't fit their corporate image.
could be true ..
....
> the Smart is really just a sop to the treehuggers.
is that really so ?
___________________________________________________________
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease
of use." - PC Magazine
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chuck,
Actually I did not know copper cleaner - I have no copper
objects in the house and most of my cables were either
pre-made or from unused cable, so cutting the insulation
revealed perfect copper surfaces.
I expect that just getting all the strands in the exposed
end back to good conductance will do the job, as the
different strands should be able to carry the current, whether
they touch each other inside the insulation or not, as long as
they all connect at each end.
So, just applying copper cleaner to the exposed wire ends and
wicking it between all the strands at the exposed ends will
be sufficient.
I had a few re-used cables that had very thick strands, so
sanding them worked well in making sure that the connection
to the lug was in good shape.
(In my truck I actually used 3 types of cable connection:
- crimped (all pre-made cables plus 1 I did myself)
- soldered (only 4 lugs)
- clamped with a brass hex bolt onto the cable
(re-using bronze transformer ground connection clamps that
fit perfectly on my batteries' square flag terminals)
The ground clamps were much cheaper than one-time-use crimp lugs
and they can be re-used as many times as you want.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Chuck Hursch
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a
Terminal Get? Not very, it shouldn't!)
Cor,
Copper cleaner seems to clean up copper surfaces pretty well. It
is a paste, as you probably know. Wonder if mixing it up into a
liquid and soaking the cable end would work. I think
sandpapering those little strands (and there are a lot of them)
would just friz and break them up into a horrible... Afro.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 3:55 PM
Subject: RE: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a
Terminal Get? Not very, it shouldn't!)
> Chuck,
>
> I do not have a use for them at this time, but if I am going
> to do a conversion, I rather have some cable lying around
> that I can re-use than buying new at that time.
>
> To re-use it, I will likely cut the insulation from the end
> where the lug goes, use sand-paper to expose raw copper in
> all strands, dip it in NoAlOx to avoid further trouble and
> crimp a lug on, then measure resistance to see if it is in
> an acceptable range. I don't know how thick the strands are,
> if they are really thin then it may be a problem to get it
> to work this way and I will need to search for a way to
> improve contact or sort out the cables that are still
> usable. With this price it is hard to go wrong.
>
> Yes, I infrequently visit the San Jose and Palo Alto EAA
> meetings, I am in good contact with several members that
> do visit frequently, for example Ron Freund needs to there
> every meeting because he has the keys to the HP building.
>
> Let me know how many cable you got and it is OK if you find
> someone else that needs it - I have no use for it now, just
> thought it to be a waste to trash it, rather have it in stock.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private:
http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life:
www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Chuck Hursch
> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 2:11 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does
a
> Terminal Get? Not very, it shouldn't!)
>
>
> Cor,
>
> The more I started thinking about it, yep, the more it seemed a
> shame to throw it out, since copper and other natural resources
> are coming more and more into demand, to the point of people
> stealing copper wiring (I think one or two of the EV chargers
out
> there may have met their demise this way, according to what I
> remember reading on the evchargernews.com postings). Heck,
maybe
> I had better be worried about my EV for a different reason, and
> that is those two long 2/0 copper cables between the front and
> rear packs - that is a substantial amount of copper to steal.
> (Just kidding...) Fortunately, those long guys are from the
> original VoltsRabbit kit, and they seem just fine.
>
> Anyways, Cor, you go to any of the EAA meetings on the
Peninsula,
> or even in San Jose? I get down there once in awhile, so I
could
> bring the cabling with me. I'll weigh it with the insulation
on
> once I'm done recabling the battery interconnects, and see just
> what I have with a rough subtraction for the insulation. What
> would you do with the copper to salvage it? These are like 7"
to
> 10" pieces with the lugs cut off. Crimping down on oxidized
> strands don't work, so you'll have to copper creme them or
> something, frizzing out all the strands.
>
> Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:10 PM
> Subject: RE: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does
a
> Terminal Get? Not very, it shouldn't!)
>
>
> > Chuck,
> >
> > Many EV'ers around here (I am in Santa Clara county, south
> > of SF Bay) and I think that you cable is salvageable with
> > some manual rework, so don't thrash it just yet.
> > If you find no better offers, then I will be happy to give
> > you double what you already were offered and pay for shipping
> > if I don't travel up north soon, I also have a colleage in
> > Petaluma, so he may be able to pick those cables up.
> >
> > Others in SF may have interest in the cables as well.
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private:
> http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Second Life:
> www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Chuck Hursch
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 2:23 PM
> > To: EVDL post
> > Subject: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a
> Terminal
> > Get? Not very, it shouldn't!)
> >
> >
> > I am generating some used cable as I am going through my
pack,
> > putting new cables in to replace the old ones that were
getting
> > hot (which were most all of the cables made at the
installation
> > of the second pack in my car some five years ago - apparently
> > defective cable that had some oxidation on the strands - I'll
> try
> > to post about that some other time). The point of this post
is
> > that a fellow EV'er (and I believe he is on the EVDL also)
> > prompted me to think about recycling that cable, when I
> mentioned
> > I was going to throw the old stuff out. Well, I called my
> local
> > recycler, Marin Recycling (Marin is the county where I live),
> and
> > they gave me a price of 58 cents/pound, with the insulation
> > removed from the cable. I doubt it's going to be more than a
> > couple of pounds with the insulation off. Even if it was ten
> > pounds, it would barely be worth my time to slice the
> insulation
> > off the copper and drive it to the recycling place. There's
> just
> > not that much of it. Anybody have different numbers/pound?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chuck
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think that GM has seen what happened in the 90's
when they were (mainly) talking about better fuel economy,
electric cars and all and after all was said and done and
they managed to get the ZEV mandate killed, only some
Japanese manufacturers hod gotten so concerned about all
this talk about efficient cars (and did not know it would
all end in a deafening silence) that they rolled out Hybrid
vehicles... Seeing where that ended, I think GM can't wait
to let that happen again.
What do you think has happened since GM launched their plan
to develop an all-electric drivetrain in a plug-in vehicle?
Suddenly everyone is aware that:
- there is an alternative to an ICE in a car
- that a car can be an EV and have unlimited range
- that plugging in is a good thing and avoids trips to
the gas station
- that having different fuel options is like selecting
different seatings in a car, drop in a new genset.
- that changing oil, belts, plugs and filters is an option
- that having different battery chemistries for different
range of electric only drive is an option
- that Hydrogen is but one of possible futures
- that battery (or other) electricity storage allows not
only an all-electric drive for shorter trips, but they
boost available power substantially, so a much lower
continuous power level suffices to propel while keeping
high performance specifications.
- that emissions problems and developments could be a thing
of the past, especially the frequent cold-starts that
pollute the most as they occur for every car trip, no matter
how short the drive, and because the catalytic converter
does not work when cold. By eliminating the majority of the
short drives, the pollution from cold starts is mostly
eliminated. If energy storage improves or a non-polluting
generator is used, emissions from the car are gone.
Not so obvious yet is that a lot less noise is produced by
such a car, which would be a relieve for all the millions of
light sleepers that are awoken every night when someone in the
neighborhood thinks it is appreciated if they ROOOOAAARRRRR
away with their modified exhausts.
I never understood why being obnoxious was seen as virtue by some.
Strange that the laws which specifically say this is not allowed,
are never enforced while the noise problem causes real pain and
loss by people - not only loss of sleep, but also stress, reduced
health from disturbed sleep and even the reduced value of their
properties because they are close to roads where LOUD cars pass
by and deter buyers from selecting such a property.
Possibly that noise pollution is treated the same as exhaust
pollution - you are not held accountable for the damages as
"everyone is doing it and it is an acceptable practice to
pollute and so long as it is not made illegal, it is allowed."
If I were to ride my bicycle around the 'hood, banging on a
garbage can, I would be *really* quickly stopped. If a car
roars by with the same noise level, no officer blinks an eye.
Anyway - I'd be interested to see if GM is going to provide a
solution to the "silence problem" that can be witnessed at
EV drag races: a quiet dash to the 1/4 mile is not so
spectacular (unless the announcer knows how to prepare the
spectators) as a hell fire and noise spewing nitro dragster.
Problem seems to be that carmakers try to shape EVery car
after this mold.
To get back on topic: how long would it take to see other
car makers release E-flex type vehicles?
If we have seen the car makers capable of EV1 and RAV4 EV
to name two of the best EVs around and we see what Tesla has
already done, do you think that GM can afford to wait?
I hope that as soon as EV-based vehicles are starting to
become common place, businesses will adapt their behavior and
offer "free charging for patrons" much like you have in some
payed parking near shops today.
With about 10 kWh on board the typical EV-based hybrid, the
interest in high-speed charging will allow virtual gas-free
driving and a 6-min recharge only requires a 100kW hookup,
although not something to sneeze at, it does not require
much new infrastructure as it is only 8A on the 12kV power
line feeding about every block in town.
How many gas stations will build a quick recharge stall
next to the slots with gas pumps?
If not the gas stations, how many stores and small business
owners will open a fast recharge point?
"Insert a Quarter and you get all the electricity we can
supply in a minute" allows you to fill up for another 40 miles
for $1.50 and that will be in contrast to $5/gal gas (this is
my expectation of gas price in 3 years from now).
On top of that, to curb pollution and to impress the need to
conserve the energy we have, taxes on oil can be brought more
into balance with the rest of the world (so pollution is paid
for at the source, cleanup can be financed by the polluter
instead of everyone owning a house or working for money)
and the single reason that tax increases can become viable
instead of political suicide is that there is an alternative.
"If you don't like to pay oil taxes, why not buy an EV?"
Enough tangents for now, I think we will see EV production
well before 2010, though the mass produced, affordable and
available EVs could probably be due in three years, which
would neatly coincide with a possible mass-produced EEstor.
Hmmm - recharge in ONE minute sounds good.
Million cycle life too.... <drifting into rose-colored dreams>
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 10:48 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: I Need You to Blitz GM Like Never Before, More Comments
Remember from a GM point of view 120,000 is just an average seller. So
while it looks like a large number to us, I am sure GM will wanr a lot mor
hits before thy commit to build the VOLT.
via Treo
David Hrivnak
-----Original Message-----
From: Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subj: Re: I Need You to Blitz GM Like Never Before, More Comments
Date: Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:03 pm
Size: 4K
To: [email protected]
Chelsea's been on the ground floor with these folks so she speaks
from experience.
I don't think it will hurt to fill in the survey. No matter what GM's
reasons are, numbers don't lie and if they see over 120,000 people
signing in a survey to want the Volt that not only says something to
GM it says something to the other manufacturers that people want EVs
and plug-in hybrids.
The auto manufacturers are putting their foot in the water with alt
fuel vehicles without really jumping in yet. They are still testing
the waters. If we tell them "Come on in the water's fine" by signing
a survey with thousands of signatures it has to say something and
they have to pay attention.
As far as the Volt, I'm not too keen on the styling. It looks like
they are going after the Chrysler 300 - Dodge Magnum and Charger look
with the chopped top appearance, taller body, aggressive grill and
big tires. I guess that is the look now days and works well for
Chrysler. Maybe Chelsea has some insight into the design.
But the fact they are doing something is interesting. I hope it's
not, "Look over there technology" and they really intend to follow
through with it.
I still miss the EV-1 greatly and haven't given the Volt much serious
thought because GM already had a great EV, but as Chelsea mentions we
shouldn't look back.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
On Jan 27, 2007, at 2:19 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
> From: "Chelsea Sexton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: January 27, 2007 2:04:31 PM EST
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: I Need You to Blitz GM Like Never Before, More Comments.
>
>
> OK, gotta jump in to this one...
>
> Re: whether it's useful to tell GM that we want to buy the Volt...I
> guess my question would be, why wouldn't you? Even if you believe
> GM will never build it, it is crucial that we as consumers continue
> to demonstrate demand. If you don't, and GM doesn't build this car,
> you've handed them a reason why. If you do, and they still don't
> build it, it calls them out- let's face it, demand for the EV1
> would have been a lot harder to prove without the 5,000 person
> waiting list. The truth is that there is and always was demand for
> plug-in cars- but we've nothing to gain by not getting that truth
> out there at every opportinity.
>
> I'm not at all naive in this, of course, especially when it comes
> to GM- what happened with the EV1 is as personal to me as anyone.
> But being encouraged by the Volt announcement is not the same as
> letting them off the hook for EV1- indeed, many of the people whom
> I feel did the most damage to the EV1 program are no longer there
> anyhow, and I personally think it's more productive at this point
> to move forward than look back. Bob and I were in Detroit with
> Chris Paine for the Volt announcement, and between that and other
> meetings, I've have had many hours of recent conversation with both
> the Volt designers and engineers as well as the execs and PR folks.
> A lot can happen between concept car and showroom, and ultimately,
> I'm going to judge them on what they do, not what they say. But all
> pr spin aside, there is a level of commitment and sincerity in the
> individuals involved that I've not seen in years- and I know for
> certain that we've collectively played a part in the fact that
> they're even pursuing this direction again; not only do I hope they
> follow through, I think it's crucial for the future of the company.
> Do I wish they'd never taken the detour? Of course...but this is
> exactly what we've been working for, and if we can't allow the
> slightest optimism, I have to wonder why we're bothering?
>
> The reality is that not one of the car companies behaved honorably
> with respect to their EV programs. But I also believe that while
> they each have a lot of ground to make up, none of them are beyond
> redemption. To the extent that any of them are wanting to take a
> step in a better direction, I think it's important to allow them to
> take it (or not) before we judge.
>
> chelsea
>
>
>> From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Reply-To: [email protected]
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: I Need You to Blitz GM Like Never Before, More Comments.
>> Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:10:09 -0500
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "Martin K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Cc: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: I Need You to Blitz GM Like Never Before
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Martin:
>> >
>> > You are about to fall into GM's public relations trap. I am sure
>> that some
>> > guy in tie and suit is giggling about how his sting got GM some
>> good
>> > headlines. GM will never built the 'Volt' - at least not as long
>> as they
>> > can sell their cheapo gas guzzlers. They are not serious, never
>> have been.
>> >
>> > Michaela
>> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:21 PM 1/28/2007, Cor van de Water wrote:
In this case, you dismiss it, because you assume that every
source of veg oil has already found a taker and you won't be
able to get any, so there is no need to even try.
All nearby sources ARE taken. There is a business on the Island that
made a deal with pretty much every restaurant. (Probably similar in
almost every city by now.)
Also, I just would prefer a pure electric truck. Possibly with a
BioDiesel range extender genset.
I hope I make myself clear and you see that this is not an attack
as I am trying to help you that there are really great ideas
out there and thrown at you, but unless you open your mind for
them, you won't consider them as a possible solution.
Yes, there have been several good ideas.
Many just don't seem to fit my usage or likes.
Neither small truck nor trailer is especially useful to me.
I COULD modify a small truck enough to be useful, I think. Replace
axle, beef up frame, etc..
Why not just start with something that has the carrying capacity?
I'd LOVE to find some kind of truck with a much better weight/load
capacity ratio AND a big enough bed.
It is possible that you have already considered alternatives
and you don't want to be distracted by alternative solutions
such as veg oil in a Diesel truck,
A Veggie oil diesel is just a different fuel. You just add the
hassle of obtaining and processing fuel.
Let me know if you have questions about this response, I may
not have been able to express myself well enough - English is
still my second language.
Actually, your English is far better than many people where English
is their only language.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: bret_e_cahill
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.technologyreview.com/Biztech/18086/
Supposedly a hybrid between a battery and a capacitor with performance
characteristics far superior to batteries or capacitors. They have the
backing of some successful investors so maybe it will work.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
pls ignore my earlier forward of this link .. EEStore has been already
discussed here
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: bret_e_cahill
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 3:26 AM
Subject: [HotAirEngineSociety-HAES] Speaking of "Game Changing" Breakthroughs .
. .
http://www.technologyreview.com/Biztech/18086/
Supposedly a hybrid between a battery and a capacitor with performance
characteristics far superior to batteries or capacitors. They have the
backing of some successful investors so maybe it will work.
Bret Cahill
__._,_.___
Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Polls | Members | Calendar
Hot Air Engines of All Kinds Including Stirling Engines. Group Owner, John
Archibald.
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to
Traditional
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity
a.. 9New Members
b.. 26New Photos
c.. 5New Files
Visit Your Group
Give Back
Yahoo! for Good
Get inspired
by a good cause.
Y! Toolbar
Get it Free!
easy 1-click access
to your groups.
Yahoo! Groups
Start a group
in 3 easy steps.
Connect with others.
.
__,_._,___
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/655 - Release Date: 1/28/2007 1:12
PM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jay,
It depends quite a bit what factory converted the vehicle
and how many they did.
If you are referring to the 94 US Electricar S10 then there
are several hundreds of them converted, with almost a hundred
of the owners organised through a Yahoo group about this
vehicle and the Prizm sedan variant using the same setup
for batteries/controller/AC-motor.
There have been at least two other factory conversion S10
series from other years and there have been many independent
converters - in those cases it depends which components they
used for the conversion whether those are still available,
if they are serviceable, or can be replaced with an equivalent
component when it fails.
Can you begin by describing what you know about your EV's
components and if unknown, show us links to pictures, as
we have so many knowledgeable people here who can often
recognise an EV component from a photo without further
specification.
We can then fill you in on details about how available
these components are, if they are serviced and by whom
or if there are easy ways to upgrade/replace once one
of the components breaks.
BTW, you can find my S10 at the EV album nr 694:
http://evalbum.com/694 and on the US Electricar yahoo group:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/uselectricar/
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
--- Jay Paroline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am new to this list, and new to the world of EV's in general, but
> not new to the idea of trying to save gas and use modes of
> transportation that are more eco-friendly. I was commuting on a
> motorcycle for a while, but a 70mph brush with death on the freeway
> has me back in 4 wheels. Public transportation isn't available and
> riding a bicycle isn't practical for every day, which brings me to EV's.
>
> The EV community seems to be full of DIY-ers, with most people taking
> a traditional ICE car and ripping out everything ICE related. I
> applaud those people, but I also remember the battle I lost with my
> car when I tried to replace the starter. I am not mechanically
> inclined, and I have no illusion of being able to remove an engine
> and all related parts, and then install something new that would
> actually function safely. Hence, I am considering buying a vehicle
> that someone else has converted. The particular vehicle I'm
> considering is a 1994 Chevy S-10 that was converted from the factory
> as part of a business venture that didn't work out. It has only 6,000
> miles on it and, according to my father who looked at it, is in
> perfect condition having been stored in a garage. The reason it
> hasn't been used much is that the owner lives on the top of a
> mountain, in VT (where my parents also live). I'm in FL, so I have no
> way to look at it myself. The owner is asking $5,800 without batteries.
>
> My questions are:
> 1. What sort of questions should I ask before buying?
> 2. Is $5,800 a reasonable price for such a vehicle? Is it reasonable
> to pay that much, plus another $850 to have it shipped, plus another
> $2,000+ to put batteries in it?
> 3. If something breaks, how hard is it going to be for me to get it
> running again? I am fairly technical and understand electronics
> fairly well, much better than mechanical stuff anyway, and the truck
> supposedly comes with all the original design information, but I
> recognize that there may be problems I can't diagnose. If that
> happens, what do I do? Have any of you had difficulty figuring out
> what's wrong with your EV and getting it working? What did you do?
> $8,000-10,000 is an awful lot of money to pay for a vehicle that
> could stop working and become unfixable, and for that much money I'd
> need to be sure it would last me a long time.
> 4. Is there a better alternative? In all honesty I don't need a
> truck, a small car (even a Commutacar) would suffice as long as it's
> capable of at least 40mph, I just haven't seen anything like that
> even remotely close to where I live, or close to my parents so I
> would have to buy it sight unseen.
>
> Any suggestions would be wonderful. I am also perusing the archives
> and will see if I find anything useful there.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's another one called the Xstatic Batcap... Sounds like a battery with
the high peak current output of a capacitor.
http://www.batcap.net/8400spec.htm
a.. Dimensions - 12.5 x 9.5 x 9
a.. Size And Weight - 70 Pounds
Says, (quote) "12 Volt - 9600 Amps"...
Maybe it would be good for drag racing?
Bruce
___________________________________________________________
peekay wrote:
> Supposedly a hybrid between a battery and a capacitor with performance
> characteristics far superior to batteries or capacitors.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know that Uni-Solar used to pride themselves
on their "bullet proof" panels.
It looks like you got one other their demo versions?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of JS
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 7:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Mobile solar EV
I have 68 Ovshinsky Uni-Solar panels on my roof feeding my house and EV.
I am looking for a flat flexible 12 volt panel to put on the EV.
It will allow me to pull the plug-in relay that connects my DC/DC converter.
Solar can charge my 12v deep cycle battery.
I do not drive at night, have no heater or A/C.
I can remove the frame from the panels I have (I repaired one)
but have not investigated how to remove the junction box.
The panels are flexible on a stainless steel backing.
One even looks like it took a bullet, leaving a 1/2 inch crater,
but it still works with full output. No glass!
John in Sylmar, CA
PV EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Peekay,
The EEstor is actually a capacitor with enough capacity to
replace batteries (energy density is supposed to be higher,
according the patent desciption).
Biggest advantages are high charge/discharge rates and the
high efficiency due to absence of chemical conversion,
because the electrical energy is stored as electrostatic field
instead of converted from/into a chemical layer on a lead plate
or whatever chemical reaction stores the energy in the battery
of your choice.
It is not really news, we have been discussing EEstor about
every other week for months now on this list.
I wrote several lengthy posts, please see the archives.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of peekay
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 8:50 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: different kind of storage for electicity
----- Original Message -----
From: bret_e_cahill
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.technologyreview.com/Biztech/18086/
Supposedly a hybrid between a battery and a capacitor with performance
characteristics far superior to batteries or capacitors. They have the
backing of some successful investors so maybe it will work.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
Actually I did not know copper cleaner... I expect that just
getting all the strands in the exposed end back to good conductance
will do the job... So, just applying copper cleaner to the exposed
wire ends and wicking it between all the strands at the exposed
ends will be sufficient.
Kitchen copper cleaners tend to leave residues that would be hard to get
out from between the strands. They also don't do all that good a job if
you can't mechanically scrub the copper.
Since the whole point of cleaning the wire is so you can make a
connection to it, I would suggest using soldering flux, and a solder
pot. Flux the wire end, dunk it in the solder pot, and pull it back out
quickly, before the heat can travel up the wire and let the solder wick
up it.
Solder flux is specifically formulated to clean copper like this. The
solder coating (also called "tinning) also provides an excellent surface
for connections, whether by soldering or crimping.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
