EV Digest 6358
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Listserv v. BB/forum
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) MBTF for EV components? (was RE: Engine out)
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EEstor, was: different kind of storage for electicity
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 200kw AC (Re: where to start?)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: EEstor, was: different kind of storage for electicity
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Altairnano not hype
by Sam Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: MBTF for EV components? (was RE: Engine out)
by "Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) OFF TOPIC - relates to EVDL list digest screw up Re: nikki's posts
screwing up digest, was Re: Strange EVDL goings-on
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) EV Album Hits The Magic 1000 Active Entries
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: a few configurations
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) push and go vs regen (was Re: Brake lights on regen)
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) regen on braking/cruising/when ? (was Re: Brake lights on regen)
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: LED, HID, and other conservative lights? (efficient heating)
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV Album Hits The Magic 1000 Active Entries
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) pulse n glide .. regen .. (was Re: Brake lights on regen - solved) .. part
1
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Serious gassing when charging
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) pulse n glide .. regen .. (was Re: Brake lights on regen - solved) .. part
2
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
imho debat is not about switching to a BB as majority prefer keeping what
they know well, but rather giving another complementary choice.
There is no problem behind this idea, only more solutions.
Idea is to use which one you prefer or both no matter, same result, you read
and write to evlist members from email list or BB.
I think an evlist member did something like this, sort of BB linked to the
list, was evforge.net ? no more news since then.
I'm sorry i can't say how nor make it as it's not near my skill but would
applause for sure, yeah i know it's the easier task...
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 5:51 PM
Subject: Listserv v. BB/forum
> I have tried to stay out of this too, the discussion comes up over and
> over. But your "Vote" is kinda infuriating. Stalwart?
> <soapbox>
> We are all different, but I think a lot of us are here because EV's
> offer us an elegant simplicity in transportation. There are times when
> I would like to follow a thread but 99.453 % I would just like to read
> it like a newspaper with my cup of coffee in the morning. I just imagine
> the multiple threads in my head. The newspaper is still around, not yet
> replaced with online services or portable readers. I love the simple
> Digest form.
>
> I liked it better when people followed some basic list etiquette.
> no 1 word replies to 1000 word messages.
> Use of the <snip></snip> markers when including a reply that needs
> internal comments but not the whole thing.
> (It is not the bandwidth, it is the amount of time I must
> scrolling through stuff I have already read)
> Search Recent Archives before posting. Do we really want to talk
> about x again?
> Not replying with someone elses signature at the bottom.
>
>
> So I vote for KISS, Keep it simply simple, Please give me 1 to 2 digests
> a day. Period.
> </soapbox>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> All nearby sources ARE taken. There is a business on the Island that
> made a deal with pretty much every restaurant. (Probably similar in
> almost every city by now.)
>
> Also, I just would prefer a pure electric truck. Possibly with a
> BioDiesel range extender genset.
>
Didn't realize you lived on an island and had limited waste oil
sources. All it takes is one family restaurant in most places to
supply typical driving needs. If it's a small island, do you need much
range anyway? If not, than a big EV may only need 20mi range, and if
you need more range because you leave the island, then that opens up
other places that could supply the WVO instead.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I've realised that the components which I've removed and will not be
refitting
> account for a large percentage of vehicle unreliabilty...
> For a laugh I donwloaded some MTBF (mean time between failure) figures
for
> various engine emission control sensors......
Is there similar information available for MTBF for batteries, motor
brushes, controllers, and chargers?
With 100K-to-tune-up cars commonplace, ICE powerplants are pretty
care-free for first-time owners. Tires, shocks, brakes and such will of
course need changed, but most EVs suffer the same costs (though regen
helps some). I look forward to a day when battery management is
affordable and dense-energy battery technology is mature -- when EVs are
easily available that can be plugged in as easily as my ICE can be
filled at the gas station...
Until then, I'll be plugging along planning my own swap. I enjoy the
research, planning, and wrenching, so that's a bonus, but I'd *love* to
be able to more honestly argue to my wife that an EV is a practical
purchase... and I'm not there yet. :(
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bottom line is it's a capacitor- nothing else- and it could do what they
claim if they could make one of that density.
However, a healthy skeptic would note that they've never demonstrated
anything like this. The claimed energy per unit of mass and volume is
far beyond anything ever made, at any cost. They claim to be delivering
a smaller product soon to that ZENN vehicle but I've yet to see enough
to absolutely convince me it exists for real at this time.
To be able to make such a product would have earth-shattering
consequences if the cost, reliability, and safety were as stated. It
could indeed be real, I can see plausible reasons why they'd be quiet
about progress at this stage, but it could also be a total fraud. At
this time there is little point mulling over the exact specs of a
hypothetical product which isn't available, and may be ficticious.
Danny
Cor van de Water wrote:
Hi Peekay,
The EEstor is actually a capacitor with enough capacity to
replace batteries (energy density is supposed to be higher,
according the patent desciption).
Biggest advantages are high charge/discharge rates and the
high efficiency due to absence of chemical conversion,
because the electrical energy is stored as electrostatic field
instead of converted from/into a chemical layer on a lead plate
or whatever chemical reaction stores the energy in the battery
of your choice.
It is not really news, we have been discussing EEstor about
every other week for months now on this list.
I wrote several lengthy posts, please see the archives.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of peekay
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 8:50 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: different kind of storage for electicity
----- Original Message -----
From: bret_e_cahill
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.technologyreview.com/Biztech/18086/
Supposedly a hybrid between a battery and a capacitor with performance
characteristics far superior to batteries or capacitors. They have the
backing of some successful investors so maybe it will work.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John,
OK, that makes sense.
If you still want to try veg oil, you could seek out other sources
than restaurants or those that don't have a contract, but I got the
message that you rather build a useful EV.
For a full size truck you need energy to drive it around.
I don't know how large the island is that you are on and how
much of it you need to reach with a big truck, but it could
lead to a very heavy conversion. If you don't mind the
investment, then by all means try it and tell us the results.
If the island is not too big, you could have a reasonable
range and high payload capacity, so it all depends on what
your needs are.
If you need raw payload capacity, then there are other ways
than going for the biggest vehicle.
Mike Phillips and Chris Zach have installed flooded NiCd (BB600)
in their trucks and reduced weigth so much that it can carry
at least 3/4 tonne due to the pack weiging about half that of lead.
This is in an S10 with 7.5 ft standard bed.
Sure this truck is smaller than a full size, loading 4' x 8'
plywood requires it to rest on one wheel well and tying it down
because the tailgate stays open. I have done that.
But it loads quite a lot, even though the space between the
wheel wells is less than 50". The bed itself is still over 56"
inside, so I can transport a lot of odd shaped objects, like a
large bicycle laying flat.
There probably are other vehicles to check on to see what type of
bed and payload they have and select one you like.
Note that if you want to load a very long load, like 16' lumber,
that the weight on the rear axle is _more_ than the empty weight
plus the total weight of the load. You can easily get 1.5 up to
2 times the weigth of the cargo added on the rear axle, because
the cargo's centre of gravity sits so far behind the rear axle
that it _reduces_ the weight on the front axle, it tries to
"tip the vehicle over" backwards.
The reduction of the weight in the front is what is added in the
back, because the total weight on both axles must still be the
vehicle plus the cargo.
So if your GVWR allows for 500 lbs payload in the back, that
does not mean you can load 500 lbs of oversized lumber.
You may reach max GVWR in the rear when only loading 300 lbs.
That may be another reason to beef up the rear, even if you
think you never need that much cargo capacity. The shift to
the rear can quickly overload your rear axle's springs.
Even though I carry an extra large lead pack (1800 lbs), I still
have over 500 lbs difference between empty and GVWR, due to the
added rear spring leaf (I do not know if there are other mods
made by US Electricar) the total GVWR is 5400, 2500 front and
2900 rear.
Fron the EValbum for my truck: http://evalbum.com/694 you can
see that it has an empty weight of 2280 front and 2600 rear,
so I can drive with two adults in the cab and have about 200 lbs
of cargo to be at GVWR with my extra large battery pack.
The others with more 1000 lbs less weight can suddenly carry an
enormous amount of payload, especially if it is placed near the
front of the bed.
Now is the S10 a rather sturdy vehicle and I have not been very
diligent, so at one point in time I loaded 12 crates of brick
into it, to improve the yard a bit.
I now realize that each crate was 1 cubic foot, so even though it
held only about 12 red bricks, this means that each crate was
about 120 lbs and I loaded 1440 lbs into the vehicle, increasing
the total weight to 6500 lbs. Ouch.
I made it home with no problem. I don't recommend this though, as
an accident may easily be blamed on the overweigth vehicle.
If I would have had a NiCd pack, I would not have overloaded my
vehicle at all....
Thanks for the compliment and success finding a good candidate,
I take it that you already browsed the EV album to check other
EV trucks?
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 8:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
At 06:21 PM 1/28/2007, Cor van de Water wrote:
>In this case, you dismiss it, because you assume that every
>source of veg oil has already found a taker and you won't be
>able to get any, so there is no need to even try.
All nearby sources ARE taken. There is a business on the Island that
made a deal with pretty much every restaurant. (Probably similar in
almost every city by now.)
Also, I just would prefer a pure electric truck. Possibly with a
BioDiesel range extender genset.
>I hope I make myself clear and you see that this is not an attack
>as I am trying to help you that there are really great ideas
>out there and thrown at you, but unless you open your mind for
>them, you won't consider them as a possible solution.
Yes, there have been several good ideas.
Many just don't seem to fit my usage or likes.
Neither small truck nor trailer is especially useful to me.
I COULD modify a small truck enough to be useful, I think. Replace
axle, beef up frame, etc..
Why not just start with something that has the carrying capacity?
I'd LOVE to find some kind of truck with a much better weight/load
capacity ratio AND a big enough bed.
>It is possible that you have already considered alternatives
>and you don't want to be distracted by alternative solutions
>such as veg oil in a Diesel truck,
A Veggie oil diesel is just a different fuel. You just add the
hassle of obtaining and processing fuel.
>Let me know if you have questions about this response, I may
>not have been able to express myself well enough - English is
>still my second language.
Actually, your English is far better than many people where English
is their only language.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Both - BRUSA and something else. Don't have pricing info yet,
but it's expected to be close to current offerings, e.g.
expensive but still affordable. When I'll know more the list
will know too.
Victor
Robert Blasutig wrote:
Victor,
Is this a Brusa setup, or is this going to be something else? Rough ideas
on pricing at this time?
Rob.
On 1/27/07, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dmitri wrote:
> However, you can get an AC motor and controller with regen, like in the
> Tesla, just less powerful @ www.metricmind.com for about $8000 - $9000
~200 kW AC drive systems will be available from Metric Mind this
year - that's the plan.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Danny,
I am also concerned about whether this is a genuine thing
and have been discussing it off-list with others.
I am pretty sure though that it is what it is reported to be
with the remark that I think they will only deliver a prototype
this year (unless a serious problem is hit, which could happen
at about any of the stages into making a multitude of the
HV modules and building a prototype EV capacitor.
Next year they could produce a series of prototypes/first series
units, two years from now I envisage they are re-designing their
storage unit to take all the lessons learned into account and
- still using the same materials, but more skilled engineering -
produce their second generation storage units which will be
ready for mass production and availability in 2010.
I could be wrong, but I think this is the type of timeline to
bring any totally new technology into the market.
I too would love to see and test even a single module, though
I have done no more than sending some emails to EEstor.
Not enough time or money to travel to TX and knock on their
doors, though someone on this list reported that Richard did
answer a VM he left at his machine and they had an interesting
chat.
My main reason to think this is a genuine development is the
attitude they have shown regarding publicity, the contracting
of a VC that has selected winner technologies in the past and
their cooperation with an actual car maker, which requires
that they reveal details about their product in order to make
it work in the car.
Giving them only the car market segment where ZENN operates
is both good for EEstor, able to test their device and still
able to sell to everyone else, as it is to ZENN, shutting out
the competition from getting their hands on this device for
the competing cars.
I could be wrong, I hope I am not and I am going to follow the
progress of EEstor closely, they have my attention as a future
upgrade to my truck, as my controller can handle up to 700V
on the DC bus, so suppose that I limit it to 500V, 200A which
would give me a 100kW vehicle. I'd probably be limited by
motor current above anything else.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Danny Miller
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 10:52 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EEstor, was: different kind of storage for electicity
Bottom line is it's a capacitor- nothing else- and it could do what they
claim if they could make one of that density.
However, a healthy skeptic would note that they've never demonstrated
anything like this. The claimed energy per unit of mass and volume is
far beyond anything ever made, at any cost. They claim to be delivering
a smaller product soon to that ZENN vehicle but I've yet to see enough
to absolutely convince me it exists for real at this time.
To be able to make such a product would have earth-shattering
consequences if the cost, reliability, and safety were as stated. It
could indeed be real, I can see plausible reasons why they'd be quiet
about progress at this stage, but it could also be a total fraud. At
this time there is little point mulling over the exact specs of a
hypothetical product which isn't available, and may be ficticious.
Danny
Cor van de Water wrote:
>Hi Peekay,
>
>The EEstor is actually a capacitor with enough capacity to
>replace batteries (energy density is supposed to be higher,
>according the patent desciption).
>
>Biggest advantages are high charge/discharge rates and the
>high efficiency due to absence of chemical conversion,
>because the electrical energy is stored as electrostatic field
>instead of converted from/into a chemical layer on a lead plate
>or whatever chemical reaction stores the energy in the battery
>of your choice.
>
>It is not really news, we have been discussing EEstor about
>every other week for months now on this list.
>I wrote several lengthy posts, please see the archives.
>
>Regards,
>
>Cor van de Water
>Systems Architect
>Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
>Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
>Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
>Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
>Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Behalf Of peekay
>Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 8:50 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: different kind of storage for electicity
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: bret_e_cahill
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>www.technologyreview.com/Biztech/18086/
>
>
>Supposedly a hybrid between a battery and a capacitor with performance
>characteristics far superior to batteries or capacitors. They have the
>backing of some successful investors so maybe it will work.
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Friday I received a telephone call from Al Gotcher, CEO of Altairnano.
Roy Graham, with whom I originally had made the agreement to test a
battery pack for last October, had left the company and become an
"Altenative Energy Consultant". When that happened, I was suspicious,
as I was promised a pack January of this year and I hadn't heard back
from them until last Friday.
Anyway, the conversation with Dr. Gotcher went well, and we are
currently working out technical details of the test. He was not
surprised that there was skepticism in the EV community regarding the
validity of their technology, given his own knowledge of the plethora
of hype ou there. I don't think he would be following through with
this test if he wasn't confident that the batteries would perform as
they claim.
Their main hurdle now is the manufacturing process of the titanate
powder, and it's quality control. They had to sign an exclusive
agreement with Pheonix Motorcars on an order of 500 packs, because
Pheonix wanted to make sure they could produce enough batteries to
complete their order.
Unfortunately, I will have to return the pack after the test so they can
disect them (I didn't like that part).
This is all FYI, so please DO NOT pummel myself or the list with too
many questions and curiosities as I will provide all the information I
have AFTER I have recieved and tested the batteries.
-Sam Maynard
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Randy you should be able to get those figures from manufacturers,
althoguh they won't necessarily be relevant to EV use, in the case
where a motor is overloaded and you might have to extrapolate the
figure for yourself.
Do you really have 100K between tune-up cars ? how reliable are
they ?
This may be a cultural leveller for the UK but our leading motoring
breakdown club, the RAC have just published their recent findings on
reasons why cars break down. you can get to it online here ......
http://tinyurl.com/35uxuc
There's a lot of common components as you rightly say, but take a
look at my blog and you can see what I just removed from the car, the
main reasons why cars get taken into garages, and the things which
cause problems such that the driver asks the service technician to
look into it at the service, and the main resons why cars don't start.
All of those things are gone in an EV.....
http://journals.aol.co.uk/fixitsan/electric-car-building/
To date I have the car, the motor, the batteries, and controller
parts. My hands are up that I have sufficicent knowledge to be able
to take a controller panel from a forklift and make it work in the
car which gets that expense out of the way but I wasn't always this
daring ! Total cost to date is about £480 ($850), which includes £200
for van hire to collect the batteries. It needn't be expensive, it
mostly is, but there opportunities to save too.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> > I've realised that the components which I've removed and will not
be
> refitting
> > account for a large percentage of vehicle unreliabilty...
> > For a laugh I donwloaded some MTBF (mean time between failure)
figures
> for
> > various engine emission control sensors......
>
> Is there similar information available for MTBF for batteries, motor
> brushes, controllers, and chargers?
>
> With 100K-to-tune-up cars commonplace, ICE powerplants are pretty
> care-free for first-time owners. Tires, shocks, brakes and such
will of
> course need changed, but most EVs suffer the same costs (though
regen
> helps some). I look forward to a day when battery management is
> affordable and dense-energy battery technology is mature -- when
EVs are
> easily available that can be plugged in as easily as my ICE can be
> filled at the gas station...
>
> Until then, I'll be plugging along planning my own swap. I enjoy the
> research, planning, and wrenching, so that's a bonus, but I'd
*love* to
> be able to more honestly argue to my wife that an EV is a practical
> purchase... and I'm not there yet. :(
>
> Randii
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry - is there anything I can do to help? I've just double-checked
to make sure I send in plain text.
Regards
Nikki.
On Jan 29, 2007, at 2:17 AM, David (Battery Boy) Hawkins wrote:
David,
Speaking of people's posts that screw up the digest files, nikki
posted and
the following 12 posts were all in one file. It's a pain when you
want to
search on a subject...
BB
From: nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:23:40 +0000
To: [email protected]
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=US-ASCII;
delsp=yes;
format=flowed
Hi There,
One of the EVA DC guys has a RAV4 EV insured through Nationwide. I'll
email you his email address separately.
Nikki.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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* This post contains a forbidden message format *
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----
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:53:51 -0800
From: Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Strange EVDL goings-on
Stranage... EV Digest # 6342 headers says there are 25 messages..
Yet I gets the first one ( from Charles Wahlen )
and part of the Second one ( from a Randy Burleson
but then THIS and no more...............
<snip>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
We made it! It has been a long long haul, but the EV Album is now
1000 entries strong. We actually have 1053 entries total, but 53 are
either retired, canceled, or incomplete.
Thank you all so much for helping make this happen.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey
Webmaster
EV Photo Album
http://evalbum.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
in calcutta, india i know of a company who is selling
electric scooter .. and who are into developing the
hub motor in co-ordination with CromptonGreaves
for quick movement in this direction .. call me up on
my cellphone ..
i'll give you the number off list if you write to me
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "sushrut patgaonkar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: a few configurations
> One of my friends who i am tapping has a few contacts in the industry ,, I
> havent still found any good ones yet
>
> my company has made a prototype electric scooter motor
>
> they are thinking of making it bigger
>
> Crompton and Greaves limited , India
>
> its a hub motor
>
> On 1/27/07, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Series hybrids are the most difficult to make efficient.
> >
> > The power from your engine most go through conversion to electricicty -
> > where you will loose approx 10-20% of your power-, then if you are going
> > to store it in a battery you'll loose another 10-25% of your power, then
> > you convert it from electricity back to mechanical motion and loose
> > another 10-20% of your power.
> >
> > You'd be better off using a smaller engine dircetly coupled to the
wheels
> > and suplementing it's power with an electric motor for acceleration and
> > hills. The electric motor could provide regen braking to get a portion
of
> > this acceleration energy back during braking, and then you could add a
> > small generator to the diesel/etc. to make up for the lost energy.
> >
> > I'm still interested to know where you have found affordable hub motors
> > at. Here in the states I'm only aware of one company that makes hub
> > motors powerfull enough for a car size EV and they cost something like
> > ~$20,000 each.
> >
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > > I was thinking last night about some ev configurations
> > >
> > > 1. A small diesel engine of about 35 hp connected to a ac generator
> > which
> > > is
> > > connected directly to two hub motors ,,what would be the likely
> > advantages
> > > and dis advantages of such a system,,will it need two controllers ?
will
> > > it
> > > need the extra weight of a gearbox to achieve performance of 200
kmph,,
> > > the
> > > diesel engine will be tuned for maximum efficiency ,, what
configuration
> > > of
> > > motors should i start looking for if I want to build such a system
> > >
> > > 2. does anyone have contacts of where to source ev parts in India ,,
> > > (Ahmedabad , Mumbai)
> > >
> > > 3. Can such a system deliver on the goals of efficiency and
performance
> > >
> > > 4. what would be the costof such a system ?
> > >
> > > 5.what is the significance of having a battery pack in the first place
> > ,,
> > > can it be bypassed to prevent the weight penalty associated with
> > batteries
> > >
> > > 6. has anyone heard of such a system or worked on such a system?
> > >
> > > 7. where can I find mentors for guiding me thru the process of
building
> > > the
> > > above said system
> > >
> > > 8.what would be the specifications of such a system if it is to be
used
> > > for
> > > a) a sports car
> > > b) a suv
> > >
> > > thank you all
> > > Sushrut
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> > junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever
I
> > wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> > legalistic signature is void.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
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11:11 AM
>
>
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I had regen on my old controller which I switch off, because I gain more
> distance in coasting which may be up to three miles at times.
>
> Anyway with coast down in my EV or ICE, but not coming to a stop, I may
> touch the accelerator several times and I do not touch the mechanical
> brakes until the last 100 feet or so if I want to stop.
this 'coasting' rather then regen seems to be a better option
with my city driving habits, i find that i usually apply the
brake 50 feet or so from the line where i want to stop
THAT is when i would want to capture all the energy which
is otherwise lost to never never land ! .. in the last 50 feet
(regen won't be able to do this ! it is too many amps at
too high a voltage in too few seconds !)
no doubt, there is a lot of momentum which translates into
energy by the simple Energy=Mass X Velocity .. and it is
this momentum/energy that would go into battery on regen
but every time you lift your foot off the accelerator .. and
brake lights come on with regen coming into action .. nope !
won't work .. not only will the driver in the car behind you
think of you as nuisance .. but also the rear seat passengers
don't like their bodies being lurched forward mildly (for
regen to work .. and recover every ounce of energy, regen
must come into action on every release of accelerator)
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----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> My Dodge TEVan has regen in Low range that starts about 1 to 1.5 seconds
> after you let off the accelerator. It does NOT turn on the brake lights.
In
> High range when you let off the accelerator it coasts ...
i guess if you let off the accelerator, the vehicle goes into cruise mode ..
slowing down due to tyre and bearing resistance (gear in neutral .. and
maybe engine is shut off)
for regen to happen, deceleration would be needed
i guess the concept of regen is that the lost energy on braking should
be converted into amps into the battery .. so there cannot be any
regen set during cruise mode
> ... until pressing the brake pedal.
> The brake system has a normal brake light switch and the regen
> system has a pressure actuator for the regen. The harder the braking - the
> higher the regen. Regen can be as high as 150A into a nominal 180V pack.
this is where the brake slows or stops the vehicle .. within a few seconds
high regen at 150Amps .. int a nominal 180V pack ! whew .. it is tooo much
energy flowing into the battery toooo fast !
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It might be easy enough to do if the unit resides outside the passenger
compartment under the hood. Then just have the output ports feed the
passenger compartment. That way it gets to ingest all the air it needs
and it can blow into the passenger compartment.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Danny Miller
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 14:06
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: LED, HID, and other conservative lights? (efficient
heating)
One thing about the "portable" A/C design. The ones I've seen have only
3 ports instead of 4. They take in the cooled room air instead of
outside air to cool the condenser and then blow it out the window. The
air must be replaced by air leaked in around doors, windows, etc. If
your house is well-sealed it will fail to flow at all. On the whole,
the performance is awful because that cooled air in the room was the
product and it wastes a huge volume of it just to cool the condenser.
You should be able to get around the problem easily enough by changing
it so the outside air cools the condenser.
Danny
Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
>In my EV I plan to use a heat pump. I thought a portable heat/air
>system could be modified to work. The one I was looking at was a
>portable 10,000 BTU unit from Newegg that has heat also. Here is the
>link. The unit could be disassembled and fit into the car where the
>old heater system used to reside. It also comes with digital controls.
>It pulls about 7 amps at 115V which should be fairly easy to do from an
>AC inverter. It could also be possible to change the motor to a DC one
>and run it straight off the pack voltage.
>
>http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16896136008&ATT=96-1
>3
>6-008&CMP=OTC-Froogle
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of David Roden
>Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 13:08
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: LED, HID, and other conservative lights? (efficient
>heating)
>
>On 25 Jan 2007 at 8:37, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
>
>
>
>>I believe the Toyota Prius uses
>>a heat pump system.
>>
>>
>
>No, it doesn't; but the GM EV1 did. One of the many items from that
>project that GM >could< have recycled for EV hobbyists instead of
>crushing - and made a little money on - if they had cared.
>
>
>David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>EV List Administrator
>
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>
>
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Hello to All,
Mike Chancey wrote:
Hi folks,
We made it! It has been a long long haul...
Thank you all so much for helping make this happen.
No Mike, it's the other way around. Thank YOU, for all the hard work and
the dedication you've shown in creating, nurturing, and supporting the
fabulous 'EV Photo Album'! I can say with absolute certainty, that
referring possible sponsors, journalists, and other media folks to the
EVPA, has resulted in all kinds of positive results for not just me, but
for the EV movement as a whole. Sure EV racers, EV designers, EV
builders, and EV promoters all do their part, but it's my personal
belief that your EVPA is one of the biggest forces that compels people
to realize that EVs are not going away, that they're not just
'vaporware', and that they are viable alternative transportation.
Congrats to you, Mike, and thank you so much!
See Ya......John Wayland
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:04 AM
<snipped>
> Coasting to a stop light
....
> I have learned how to drive economically and can judge
> pretty well at what distance I can release the accelerator
> to coast ...
...
this brings me to write about the months of watching my
own driving habits .. pulse and glide .. is becoming a popular
fuel saver .. more of why this is relevant in another post
> BTW, the original question started with people ... who
> have increased the regen setting to a non-standard value such
> that releasing the accelerator gives maximum braking force,
everytime i release the accelerator, this setting will apply
braking force .. and passengers will lurch forward ..
> It also does not gain you anything as the max regen during
> braking is activated *before* the friction brakes are engaged.
i guess regen is only when actual braking is done .. not when
cruising or coasting or free wheeling or gliding along .. in
these stages of motion, absolutely NO opposing force should
come into play and slow down a moving car
..peekay
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At 10:03 PM 1/28/2007, Death to All Spammers wrote:
Didn't realize you lived on an island and had limited waste oil
sources. All it takes is one family restaurant in most places to
supply typical driving needs. If it's a small island, do you need much
range anyway? If not, than a big EV may only need 20mi range, and if
you need more range because you leave the island, then that opens up
other places that could supply the WVO instead.
BIG island. 60 miles long. As well as a Ferry to the
mainland. Also, BioDiesel is pretty big around here, so I rather
doubt there is much left available on the mainland.
I guess I could spend a couple of weeks calling every restaurant
within 50 miles, but since I'm not especially interested in
processing fuel, I'm not going to.
The few people I've talked to that HAVE found a restaurant to get old
oil from - are getting it from one that is owned by a family member
or good friend.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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Hi Guys and gals,
The Mini El has developed a penchant for serious gassing while
charging. It's got three, 12v Varta semi-tractions with a 5h rate of
75AH . I'm charging them with the stock MiniEl charger (came with the
vehicle and is I assume the standard fare for the car). No marking
etc on the charger so I really can't tell you more than that. I'm
probably going to open it up some time to see if there's any more
info inside.
At about 2 hours in the charger is going full pelt at anything
between 49 and 53 volts. I'm getting some serious gassing and my
garage stinks to high heaven. It's fairly well ventilated but I'm
seriously worried I'm giving the cells an equalizing charge every
time I plug in and it's not doing the batteries any good. I opened
the garage door last night and nearly frazzled myself with the smell
of the battery gas!
I've got a 6v cell which I add to the pack in series for driving to
give me that extra kick 42v nominal can give (It's much safer now
driving in traffic as I can accelerate with the rest of the traffic
and head up most hills at 30mph)
The 6v cell is charged individually with an off-the shelf intelligent
6v charger.
I either need a nice 42v charger that I can use on the whole pack
(someone mentioned a zivan may do the trick) or some solution to stop
the car from charging so fast and so hard. I want to make the
batteries last as long as I can and as I charge at night an 8 hour
charge isn't a problem!
Nikki.
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
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now the rest of the proposition ..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:04 AM
> Coasting ...
> I have learned how to drive economically and can judge
> pretty well at what distance I can release the accelerator
> to coast down to the light and I can judge whether the
> road is busy, so I better keep my speed up a bit and need
> to brake when I reach the light if it has not turned green
> yet, or if the road is quiet so I can coast down to a stop
> without ever braking.
during concious observing of driving habits after reading
about the pulse n glide method of driving around .. i was
really stunned at the increase in mileage by just a little
change in driving methods .. upto a max of 80 % .. amazing
.. and naturally not to be believed .. so i repeated this over
several weeks .. and then over several months .. and the
extra mileage works out to 50 % more over the earlier
way of driving .. so i can now drive in 2 litres where i
used to burn 3 litres of petrol !
the method is standard and simple .. just pulse and glide !
accelerate to 60 km per hr .. switch off the engine ..
put the gear lever in neutral position .. and glide !
when the car slows down to 40 km per hr .. turn the
starting switch to the "on" position .. engage in the
last gear say 4th .. release the clutch a bit .. engine starts ..
shift to 3rd gear .. "pulse" the care .. accelerate to
60 km per hr .. and repeat the cycle
this made me look for long roads with minimum stop and
go possibilities .. and .. made me enjoy the wind .. strangely
75 % of the time the engine is switched off !
..peekay
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