EV Digest 6359
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) pulse n glide .. regen .. (was Re: Brake lights on regen - solved) .. part
3
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: I Need You to Blitz GM Like Never Before, More Comments
by Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Serious gassing when charging
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: I Need You to Blitz GM Like Never Before, More Comments
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Batcap was Re: different kind of storage for electicity
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: pulse n glide .. regen .. (was Re: Brake lights on regen - solved) ..
part 3
by ROBERT RICE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: pulse n glide .. regen .. (was Re: Brake lights on regen - solved) ..
part 3
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: pulse n glide .. regen .. (was Re: Brake lights on regen - solved) ..
part 1
by ROBERT RICE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Serious gassing when charging
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: push and go vs regen (was Re: Brake lights on regen)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV Album Hits The Magic 1000 Active Entries
by Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: push and go vs regen (was Re: Brake lights on regen)
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: push and go vs regen (was Re: Brake lights on regen)
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: MBTF for EV components? (was RE: Engine out)
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Motor Controller for Capacitor Powered Vehicle
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Serious gassing when charging
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: EV Album Hits The Magic 1000 Active Entries
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Subject: Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle/PV panels
by Jerry McIntire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: push and go vs regen (was Re: Brake lights on regen)
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Motor Controller for Capacitor Powered Vehicle
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) The 1000th EV in the photo album.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: push and go vs regen (was Re: Brake lights on regen)
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EV Album Hits The Magic 1000 Active Entries
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: MBTF for EV components? (was RE: Engine out)
by "Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Subject: Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle/PV panels
by xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Converting ICE vehicles for profit
by ROBERT RICE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: EV Album Hits The Magic 1000 Active Entries
by Robert Lemke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:04 AM
> I have learned how to drive economically
now i have a proposition :
can we add some devices where i can set the upper
and lower limits of speed .. this would work like
this :
when i reach the upper speed which i set, the power
shoud cut off .. when i reach the lower speed, the
power should come on and accelerate to that upper
speed limit which i set
this setting of the upper and lower speeds will be
different for different roads and driving conditions
a) min 40 kmph .. max 60 kmph
b) min 30 kmph .. max 50 kmph
c) min 20 kmph .. max 40 kmph
d) min 10 kmpw .. max 20 kmph
this would work for freeways .. to congested roads
all i need to do then is to keep my accelerator pressed ..
and the motor will work only when speed drops to lower
than the min limit .. and cuts off when it crosses the max
limit
i will need freedom to keep shifting my lower and upper
limits on the fly .. maybe like two levers on the erstwhile
tram cars
..peekay
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Cor van de Water wrote:
> I think that GM has seen what happened in the 90's
> when they were (mainly) talking about better fuel economy,
> electric cars and all and after all was said and done and
> they managed to get the ZEV mandate killed, only some
> Japanese manufacturers hod gotten so concerned about all
> this talk about efficient cars (and did not know it would
> all end in a deafening silence) that they rolled out Hybrid
> vehicles... Seeing where that ended, I think GM can't wait
> to let that happen again.
>
>
...
Has anyone ever put up a more official type of petition saying:
"Dear <car companies>, The undersigned would like you to build an
all-electric or plug-in hybrid with substantial electric-only range ...
the technology exists today ... etc" ?
--
Martin K
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 29 Jan 2007 at 14:45, nikki wrote:
> Varta semi-tractions
That may be part of the problem - they're not real deep cycle batteries. In
the states a few EVers have tried these "combination" SLI / DC marine
batteries for EVs - they die very quickly, even faster than allegedly "real"
deep cycle 12v marine batteries.
My guess is that yours are depreciating rapidly. Your finish voltage needs
to be trimmed down as they age - they will never again reach the maximum
voltage that they reached when they were new.
If your garage stinks while charging, you're damaging them already. Feel
the blocks - are they hot? I wouldn't be surprised if they're going into
thermal runaway. It's probably too late to save them, but turn the charger
down anyway!
If you can't adjust that charger, you should get yourself a good, adjustable
smart charger. I really like Brusa chargers because they're almost
infininitely programmable, but they're pretty expensive.
Roger, can the user trim finish voltage and current on a Delta-Q?
> I've got a 6v cell which I add to the pack in series for driving to
> give me that extra kick 42v nominal can give
I don't think that you have a 6v cell, more likely a 6v battery (module,
block, monoblock, etc.).
I have some doubts about charging it with the rest of them, regardless of
charger. You really should match all the blocks in the pack. Can you find
room for another 12v block? Maybe if you dropped down a notch in size for
the next pack?
Could you fit 6-8 Saft STM5-100MR modules into that little bug? Or maybe
some surplus aircraft nicad cells?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
> Enough tangents for now, I think we will see EV production
> well before 2010, though the mass produced, affordable and
> available EVs could probably be due in three years, which
> would neatly coincide with a possible mass-produced EEstor.
> Hmmm - recharge in ONE minute sounds good.
> Million cycle life too.... <drifting into rose-colored dreams>
Dream on ;) If you would see how the European (read: German) car makers
are pressuring the European Union in regard to proposed reduction of fuel
usage .. One believes to be in a different world. I took the time to write
the CEO of Daimler Chrysler ('Dr. Z') and reminded him to the fact, that
he is an EE. So - he should know that it is possible to build an EV.
Do I believe we will see a mass-produced EV or even a serious PHEV within
the next 3 years? Not from Detroit or Germany. Those guys will do
everything to keep the business they are having. And politicians are
easily impressed with the threat of a massive reduction in workforce
(Daimler Chrysler said, that they might have to reduce their workforce by
_50,000_ IF the EU orders strict(er) fuel usage regulations).
mm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow
Those Batcaps have come up on the list before, mostly OT re car audio:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/msearch?query=batcap&submit=Search&charset=utf-8
or tinyURL here:
http://tinyurl.com/34tvdx
Yah, maybe drag racing, but what about personal electrics?
Like, a 600w rated brushed hub motor (Crystalite 409) in 16" rim,
intended to carry a two-wheeled vehicle weighing 250lbs (incl.rider and
gear), running 48V at an average 500w for 45 minutes down to 20% SOC,
with plenty of stop-and-go and no regen, at 10°C battery temp, w/no
hills or head winds?
Honestly, I'm really tired of driving lead, but what would a 48V pack
of their smaller Batcaps perform like? eg the 400's
http://www.batcap.net/Model400.html
Maybe "buffer" the pack too, with their little caps?
"Performance" I realize is a mix of compromise, with one trade-off
being how often the pack is run down below 50% vs how many recharges
between recycles...
I have the hub motor, and quality street tire on order. EVentually I'll
be brushless, but for now I still need to collect batts and charger,
and maybe another controller instead of the one that came with the
motor...
BTW, back "wheel" is a quality inline blade... so I define this vehicle
as "two-wheeled" a bit losely.
I hope the info above is enough for me to figure out what sort of a
pack I need (using Batcap product, for example), but these calcs stuff
makes my head hurt, and I'm hoping someone on the EVDL who can do these
calcs easily will take pity <smile>
I am shooting to keep the vehicle weight (excl.rider and gear) down to
around 50lbs. Motor excl.rubber is at 11lbs already. Frame etc excl.
batt.pack and controller and onboard charger looks like another 20lbs
approx. so far. So batt pack needs to be max. 20lbs approx.
Am leaning toward NiCad, but curious how the Batcap product (batts,
maybe w/caps?) might "look".
Their charger looks interesting, though they only offer up to 36v, and
too heavy for onboard.
Tks for any feedback
Lock
Toronto
human-electric hybrid pedestrian
--- Bruce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here's another one called the Xstatic Batcap... Sounds like a
> battery with the high peak current output of a capacitor.
>
> http://www.batcap.net/8400spec.htm
>
> a.. Dimensions - 12.5 x 9.5 x 9
> a.. Size And Weight - 70 Pounds
>
> Says, (quote) "12 Volt - 9600 Amps"...
>
> Maybe it would be good for drag racing?
>
> Bruce
> ___________________________________________________________
> peekay wrote:
> > Supposedly a hybrid between a battery and a capacitor with
> performance
> > characteristics far superior to batteries or capacitors.
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
peekay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water"
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:04 AM
> I have learned how to drive economically
now i have a proposition :
can we add some devices where i can set the upper
and lower limits of speed .. this would work like
this :
when i reach the upper speed which i set, the power
shoud cut off .. when i reach the lower speed, the
power should come on and accelerate to that upper
speed limit which i set
this setting of the upper and lower speeds will be
different for different roads and driving conditions
a) min 40 kmph .. max 60 kmph
b) min 30 kmph .. max 50 kmph
c) min 20 kmph .. max 40 kmph
d) min 10 kmpw .. max 20 kmph
this would work for freeways .. to congested roads
all i need to do then is to keep my accelerator pressed ..
and the motor will work only when speed drops to lower
than the min limit .. and cuts off when it crosses the max
limit
i will need freedom to keep shifting my lower and upper
limits on the fly .. maybe like two levers on the erstwhile
tram cars
..peekay
Hi EVerybody;
Hmmmmm? Sounds like something most EVerybody is pretty much equipped with
already; A right foot, and a brain(Logic Circuit) to operate it?
OK for folks wanting in the above, or wanting to cell fone, catch up on
their reading, or diddling with the @#$%^ radios in cars nowadaze. There's
always cruise control, although ya don't see it much in EV's yet.
Seeya
Bob
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--- Begin Message ---
I would think pulsing like that would be really jerky at best. Most
speed controllers are pulsing anyways and the motor is averaging them
out. If you are pulsing between such extremes I think it would really
take a lot more power to keep going vice maintaining a specific speed.
It always takes more power to accelerate than to maintain.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ROBERT RICE
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 10:48
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: pulse n glide .. regen .. (was Re: Brake lights on regen -
solved) .. part 3
peekay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Cor van de Water"
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:04 AM
> I have learned how to drive economically
now i have a proposition :
can we add some devices where i can set the upper and lower limits of
speed .. this would work like this :
when i reach the upper speed which i set, the power shoud cut off ..
when i reach the lower speed, the power should come on and accelerate to
that upper speed limit which i set
this setting of the upper and lower speeds will be different for
different roads and driving conditions
a) min 40 kmph .. max 60 kmph
b) min 30 kmph .. max 50 kmph
c) min 20 kmph .. max 40 kmph
d) min 10 kmpw .. max 20 kmph
this would work for freeways .. to congested roads
all i need to do then is to keep my accelerator pressed ..
and the motor will work only when speed drops to lower than the min
limit .. and cuts off when it crosses the max limit
i will need freedom to keep shifting my lower and upper limits on the
fly .. maybe like two levers on the erstwhile tram cars
..peekay
Hi EVerybody;
Hmmmmm? Sounds like something most EVerybody is pretty much equipped
with already; A right foot, and a brain(Logic Circuit) to operate it?
OK for folks wanting in the above, or wanting to cell fone, catch
up on their reading, or diddling with the @#$%^ radios in cars nowadaze.
There's always cruise control, although ya don't see it much in EV's
yet.
Seeya
Bob
___________________________________________________________
Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
peekay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water"
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:04 AM
> Coasting to a stop light
....
> I have learned how to drive economically and can judge
> pretty well at what distance I can release the accelerator
> to coast ...
...
this brings me to write about the months of watching my
own driving habits .. pulse and glide .. is becoming a popular
fuel saver .. more of why this is relevant in another post
Hi EVerybody, again;
I guess folks in the UK are more gracious drivers than here in the
Colonies(USA)? You drive pulse and glide here you will be at worst, run over,
rear ended! Or just get away with a few obsenities and one finger selutes?One
of the down things of driving EV's in the real world you CAN'T be a pain in the
ass to EVerybody else! You HAVE to spend the amps to get GOING on the freeway,
to enter, with dignity intact(60-70mph) Once on, you can sidle over in the
right lane and ooze along at at least minimum speed as posted(40-50mph) If you
can't do that,stay OFF the freeway!If you are in EVerybodies way, you are doing
more bad,for the cause, IF you have "Electric Car" on the back, in 3"
letters<g>!But when you first get your rig up and running, don't advertize it!
Not until it goes as planned, THEN the "Question Internal Combustion", and
"Powered by American Electrons", stickers go on!"Electrics; First and Last
Cars" That one's mine, copy -it- right<g>!
OK end of rant.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh bother!
On Jan 29, 2007, at 3:22 PM, David Roden wrote:
On 29 Jan 2007 at 14:45, nikki wrote:
Varta semi-tractions
That may be part of the problem - they're not real deep cycle
batteries. In
the states a few EVers have tried these "combination" SLI / DC marine
batteries for EVs - they die very quickly, even faster than
allegedly "real"
deep cycle 12v marine batteries.
My guess is that yours are depreciating rapidly. Your finish
voltage needs
to be trimmed down as they age - they will never again reach the
maximum
voltage that they reached when they were new.
If your garage stinks while charging, you're damaging them
already. Feel
the blocks - are they hot? I wouldn't be surprised if they're
going into
thermal runaway. It's probably too late to save them, but turn the
charger
down anyway!
If you can't adjust that charger, you should get yourself a good,
adjustable
smart charger. I really like Brusa chargers because they're almost
infininitely programmable, but they're pretty expensive.
Yeah. I think you're right. This morning the charger tried to push 56
volts through on a 36v nominal pack before I saw and turned it off.
The batteries aren't getting that hot but they are using a lot of
water. (They're flooded of course)
Roger, can the user trim finish voltage and current on a Delta-Q?
I've got a 6v cell which I add to the pack in series for driving to
give me that extra kick 42v nominal can give
I don't think that you have a 6v cell, more likely a 6v battery
(module,
block, monoblock, etc.).
Yes - I do. A 6v monoblock which I was leant for the winter to help
get me through. The Varta Semi-Tractions hate the cold. And by that
I mean anything under about 55 degrees!
I have some doubts about charging it with the rest of them,
regardless of
charger. You really should match all the blocks in the pack. Can
you find
room for another 12v block? Maybe if you dropped down a notch in
size for
the next pack?
Could you fit 6-8 Saft STM5-100MR modules into that little bug? Or
maybe
some surplus aircraft nicad cells?
The plan is to put ThunderSky 200AH cells in - probably shooting for
a 42v nominal pack voltage, with Cedric Lynch's cell protectors on
each cell. I should at least get a decent range then.
If I can use a band-aid type fix (primarily for the pocket) until
then I'll be happy!
Nikki.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Yes, it's more efficient to coast when you can. Regen has inefficiencies,
of course. However, in traffic, you'll annoy other drivers less if you use
regen instead of LOOONG coastdowns.
If you have regen, it's usually fairly easy to implement a neutral (coast)
position on the accelerator, or a regen defeat switch, so there's no reason
not to use whichever is appropriate. A reasonable person will balance regen
and coasting depending on the circumstances.
BTW, don't underestimate the improvement in comfort and driveability
afforded by regen, particularly in hilly regions (which is where it also
provides the largest measure of energy recovery). In most (not all) cases I
find the most vociferous opponents of regen are the ones who've never driven
an EV that had it. Regen widens the EV grin. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Good job with the website, Mike! Thanks for your efforts.
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
---- Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> We made it! It has been a long long haul, but the EV Album is now
> 1000 entries strong. We actually have 1053 entries total, but 53 are
> either retired, canceled, or incomplete.
>
> Thank you all so much for helping make this happen.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey
> Webmaster
> EV Photo Album
> http://evalbum.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
THAT is when i would want to capture all the energy which
is otherwise lost to never never land ! .. in the last 50 feet
(regen won't be able to do this ! it is too many amps at
too high a voltage in too few seconds !)
If your 3000 lb vehicle is traveling at 65 mph there's 612kWs of
kinetic energy stored in it. So presuming you take 4s (50 feet) to
come to a full stop, that's only 150kW. 150kW controllers and battery
pack are not that uncommon. (yeah I know, 150kW regen controllers are
rare)
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Slight mistake snuck in there, 4s to stop from 65mph is about 200 feet.
On 1/29/07, Peter Gabrielsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> THAT is when i would want to capture all the energy which
> is otherwise lost to never never land ! .. in the last 50 feet
> (regen won't be able to do this ! it is too many amps at
> too high a voltage in too few seconds !)
If your 3000 lb vehicle is traveling at 65 mph there's 612kWs of
kinetic energy stored in it. So presuming you take 4s (50 feet) to
come to a full stop, that's only 150kW. 150kW controllers and battery
pack are not that uncommon. (yeah I know, 150kW regen controllers are
rare)
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Do you really have 100K between tune-up cars ? how
> reliable are they ?
Well, not me, personally. My fleet mostly wants tune-ups in the 60K
range, with the turbo-diesel stretching longer and the 4x4 leaning
shorter. Be that as it may, many new cars recommend tune-ups only after
100K miles. Platinum plugs and reactive computer controls help drive
this -- you still gotta change the oil, tho. :p
> This may be a cultural leveller for the UK but our leading motoring
> breakdown club, the RAC have just published their recent findings
> on reasons why cars break down. http://tinyurl.com/35uxuc
Great link! Here are the top ten causes, listed in that article - of 65K
calls:
1.) 7.78% Punctured tyre 194549
2.) 7.12% Jumpstart (flat battery) 177916
3.) 5.22% Dead battery (replacement required) 130575
4.) 3.61% Road Traffic Accident 90263
5.) 2.72% Engine fault 67881
6.) 2.59% No fault found (driver error) 64773
7.) 2.36% Alternator fault 58887
8.) 2.30% Starter Motor fault 57380
9.) 2.08% Clutch - Assembly 51969
10.) 1.95% Interior lights left on (flat battery) 48681
Since they don't explicitly identify their pool, I was forced to use
their 2.5 million call-outs as the denominator to generate the above
percentages. They mentioned out-of-fuel, assistance with CD-player, and
etc., but it is odd that the top ten accounts for only 37.7% of the 2.5M
incidents. Further, it would be fantastic to be able to map this
meaningfully against miles traveled.
Surprisingly few of the listed items are exclusive to ICE engines, but I
bet with most EV-ers knowing their vehicles better than ICE drivers,
there are fewer No fault found (driver error) calls! I won't discount
failures arising from battery-related issues, alternators, or starters,
but I do wonder whether insertion of EV batteries, chargers, and motors
doesn't add the same numbers back in (or more, perhaps, since they are
more highly stressed)/
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have any ideas on what kind of controller would work well for a
small vehicle powered by (instead of batteries), a very large bank of
capacitors?
I understand that SCR based controllers are hard on batteries because of
their slow switching speed and large current spikes. Perhaps this would not
be a problem with capacitor power? Might an SCR based controller be
simpler, cheaper and more rugged than a more modern MOSFET controller?
Any thoughts on this?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden wrote:
> Roger, can the user trim finish voltage and current on a Delta-Q?
Sort of, but not really ;^>
All present production units have serial communication capability which
allows the end user to update software or charge algorithms via an
optional USB dongle accessory, however, algorithm updates are limited to
installing an improved version of an algorithm or another Delta-Q
supplied algorithm.
That said, there is something wrong with Nikki's charger other than the
batteries possibly being on their way out. 49-53V on an 18-cell (36V)
pack is 2.72-2.94V/cell, which is way too high even for a healthy
deep-cycle traction battery. It is just about right for a 42V pack, so
Nikki might be able to tame the gassing at least temporarily by leaving
her 6V booster module in-line while charging with the main charger.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> We made it! It has been a long long haul, but the EV
> Album is now 1000 entries strong. We actually have 1053
> entries total, but 53 are either retired, canceled, or incomplete.
Thanks for your efforts, Mike, and the others who have helped make this
milestone, either by documenting their own swap and sharing, or by
scripting behind the scenes.
I turn to the EValbum again and again to research those who have gone
before me, and also, to just stay excited about the process.
Thanks for helping lead the way!
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John, put the PV panels on your house, garage, or business. You'll
get better tax credits, can put up a bigger array to actually get
some miles out of them, and they will be safer, not to mention
leaving your roof clear for carrying whatever. A van roof full of
panels will add almost no range because the batteries will only start
taking their output once they you've started draining them, and
you're adding weight. I've got them on my house, and the plug in the
garage feeds the PV power directly to our EVs.
Jerry
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You need alot more than 150 kW of stopping force to stop that fast. The average
power needed (150 kW) doesn't stop you fast enough at the higher speeds, and
will skid your tires at lower speeds.
Power = Force * velocity
You'd want about 1 g of stopping force (about the most a good street tire can
do). So for 3000 lbs, 1g stopping, and 65 mph:
Power = 386 kW
You would also want some margin, imagine a heavily loaded vehicle going
downhill at 80 mph with a trailer, so realistically you'll want more like
double that. It would be tough to find regen that will accept enough power to
safely stop a car at max stopping rates at highway speeds.
----- Original Message ----
From: Peter Gabrielsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 11:30:45 AM
Subject: Re: push and go vs regen (was Re: Brake lights on regen)
Slight mistake snuck in there, 4s to stop from 65mph is about 200 feet.
On 1/29/07, Peter Gabrielsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If your 3000 lb vehicle is traveling at 65 mph there's 612kWs of
> kinetic energy stored in it. So presuming you take 4s (50 feet) to
> come to a full stop, that's only 150kW. 150kW controllers and battery
> pack are not that uncommon. (yeah I know, 150kW regen controllers are
> rare)
____________________________________________________________________________________
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A controller would need to be able to handle a wide voltage and current
range. To use some 90% of the cap's energy the voltage will vary by a
factor of 3.
Right now, there is no capacitor in existance which can power an EV for
any useful distance. Someone asked about the big stereo caps and I
recall calculating that enough to fill the vehicle gets you just about
to the end of the block. Available, but very expensive, ultracaps could
get you a decent start off the line but still no range to speak of.
Danny
Bruce wrote:
Does anyone have any ideas on what kind of controller would work well for a
small vehicle powered by (instead of batteries), a very large bank of
capacitors?
I understand that SCR based controllers are hard on batteries because of
their slow switching speed and large current spikes. Perhaps this would not
be a problem with capacitor power? Might an SCR based controller be
simpler, cheaper and more rugged than a more modern MOSFET controller?
Any thoughts on this?
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http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1053 Was this vehicle the 1000th EV ? Only
the Tinkerer knows. Lawrence Rhodes.......
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I wasn't suggesting that you'd skip the brakes entirely. I was
pointing out that in normal driving the regen is capable of stopping
the car in reasonable time. After all 200 feet is about the length of
a freeway off-ramp, a rather scary short one even.
Power = Force * velocity
You'd want about 1 g of stopping force (about the most a good street tire can
do). So for 3000 lbs, 1g stopping, and 65 mph:
Power = 386 kW
1g of deccelration and 65mph (30m/s) -> 30/9.82 = 3s
3000lbs (1360kg) at 65mph -> E = 1/2 m*v*v = 612kWs or Joules.
Power = 200kW
Did I miss something?
--
www.electric-lemon.com
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Mike Chancy,
Yep, absolutely agree with Wayland. Thank you for
your dedication and foresight in providing a
desparately needed service by hosting the EV Album.
It is much easier showing people ALL the conversions
and choices of working and running vehicles in one
location than just talking about EVs.
Lyle Sloan
--- John Wayland <Wrote:
> Hello to All,
>
> Mike Chancey wrote:
>
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > We made it! It has been a long long haul...
> > Thank you all so much for helping make this
> happen.
>
>
> No Mike, it's the other way around. Thank YOU, for
> all the hard work and
> the dedication you've shown in creating, nurturing,
> and supporting the
> fabulous 'EV Photo Album'! I can say with absolute
> certainty, that
> referring possible sponsors, journalists, and other
> media folks to the
> EVPA, has resulted in all kinds of positive results
> for not just me, but
> for the EV movement as a whole. Sure EV racers, EV
> designers, EV
> builders, and EV promoters all do their part, but
> it's my personal
> belief that your EVPA is one of the biggest forces
> that compels people
> to realize that EVs are not going away, that they're
> not just
> 'vaporware', and that they are viable alternative
> transportation.
>
> Congrats to you, Mike, and thank you so much!
>
> See Ya......John Wayland
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
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--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> > Do you really have 100K between tune-up cars ? how
> > reliable are they ?
> Well, not me, personally. My fleet mostly wants tune-ups in the 60K
> range, with the turbo-diesel stretching longer and the 4x4 leaning
> shorter. Be that as it may, many new cars recommend tune-ups only
after
> 100K miles. Platinum plugs and reactive computer controls help drive
> this -- you still gotta change the oil, tho. :p
>
> > This may be a cultural leveller for the UK but our leading
motoring
> > breakdown club, the RAC have just published their recent findings
> > on reasons why cars break down. http://tinyurl.com/35uxuc
> Great link! Here are the top ten causes, listed in that article -
of 65K
> calls:
> 1.) 7.78% Punctured tyre 194549
> 2.) 7.12% Jumpstart (flat battery) 177916
> 3.) 5.22% Dead battery (replacement required) 130575
> 4.) 3.61% Road Traffic Accident 90263
> 5.) 2.72% Engine fault 67881
> 6.) 2.59% No fault found (driver error) 64773
> 7.) 2.36% Alternator fault 58887
> 8.) 2.30% Starter Motor fault 57380
> 9.) 2.08% Clutch - Assembly 51969
> 10.) 1.95% Interior lights left on (flat battery) 48681
> Since they don't explicitly identify their pool, I was forced to use
> their 2.5 million call-outs as the denominator to generate the above
> percentages. They mentioned out-of-fuel, assistance with CD-player,
and
> etc., but it is odd that the top ten accounts for only 37.7% of the
2.5M
> incidents. Further, it would be fantastic to be able to map this
> meaningfully against miles traveled.
>
> Surprisingly few of the listed items are exclusive to ICE engines,
but I
> bet with most EV-ers knowing their vehicles better than ICE drivers,
> there are fewer No fault found (driver error) calls! I won't
discount
> failures arising from battery-related issues, alternators, or
starters,
> but I do wonder whether insertion of EV batteries, chargers, and
motors
> doesn't add the same numbers back in (or more, perhaps, since they
are
> more highly stressed)/
>
> Randii
>
Yes it would be difficult to draw any clear conclusions, but, it
seems I live on an island where half of the breakdonw crews, adn
there's plenty of them, have attended calls to top up washer fluid.
My hats off to the patrolmen who can take a call like that and not
sound pedantic when explaining to the driver where the water goes so
that they know where to put it for next time.
Chris
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I agree that's the more efficient setup, without a
doubt. However, stationary panels cannot extend your
range. I know they won't extend it a lot, but let's
say you drive to work in the morning but you can't
park anywhere near an outlet. Your vehicle is parked
for 8-9 hours during the day sitting in the sun. Sure
it's not all peak generating time, but a 16 ft long 6
ft. wide van could give you about 90 sq.ft. of surface
area. You could fit 6 Sunpower 220 watt units,
totaling about 200 lbs. Even if you conservatively
rate them at half the output for average real world
conditions, that's over 1000 watts available.
I honestly don't know how this all would work out in
the real world but it seems as if a large van might
have enough area to make it worthwhile in certain
situations.
John
--- Jerry McIntire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> John, put the PV panels on your house, garage, or
> business. You'll
> get better tax credits, can put up a bigger array to
> actually get
> some miles out of them, and they will be safer, not
> to mention
> leaving your roof clear for carrying whatever. A
> van roof full of
> panels will add almost no range because the
> batteries will only start
> taking their output once they you've started
> draining them, and
> you're adding weight. I've got them on my house,
> and the plug in the
> garage feeds the PV power directly to our EVs.
>
> Jerry
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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"Roger Daisley @ R J Ranch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Is it possible to make
a profitable business converting ICE's, such as
original VW bug's or Rabbits or perhaps, specialty vehicles, such as
road-legal dune buggy's into EV's? I'm looking for something to do, have a
reasonable amount of mechanical and electrical ability and have owned and
driven a converted '76 Rabbit. I have a 3000 sq. ft. facility to use. All
comments greatly appreciated.
/roger d
Hi Roger;
I think you COULD turn converting Rabbits, I liked the Rabbits because
of the plethura of aftermarket parts, almost EVerywhere. Only problem is
Rabbits are about as common as Trabants, and Zils around here, Least Coast. VW
Bugs? Ha Ha! Who are you kidding? At least in CT, NY MA or Pennslowmania! You
don't want to spend thousands of hours and dollars rebuilding the damn car
BEFORE any electrics go in.
aybe olfs and Jettas might be a good bet? Catch as catch can: I bought a
cherry 1997 Nissan Sentra, at my Friendly Local Junkyard, for 500 bux with
Engine and gas tank GONE already, but he DID save/give me the clutch, pressure
plate an' flywheel, I asked him too, and he knew what I was doing with it.If
could be assured of a clean car source for any conversion project, it would
shure save some time, rather than re-engineering EVERY one! THAT's what takes
the time, in converting!IF I had a standard motor/tranny adapter plate setup? I
was lucky to find a machine shop that did all mine for 400 bux.
Seeya, hope that helps?
Bob
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Mike,
I agree with all the others, we thank you for showcasing our creations. It
gives the EV movement credibilty as I can show family and friends I'm not the
complete oddity. In the beginning they thought how novel, an electric powered
truck for running errands and a little electric powered scooter that will nose
out an 1986 Corvette up to 40 mph. With visiting your EValbum web page, they
have become more accepting of the EV as a viable means of transportation. With
the showing of Who Killed the Electric Car at gatherings and family functions,
they are on board with the movement.
In no small means I credit your webpage with the future enlightenment of
the masses, hence the saving of good old planet Earth for our future
generations. That, Mike, is how I feel about your efforts sir.
Respectfully,
Robert Lemke
lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mike Chancy,
Yep, absolutely agree with Wayland. Thank you for
your dedication and foresight in providing a
desparately needed service by hosting the EV Album.
It is much easier showing people ALL the conversions
and choices of working and running vehicles in one
location than just talking about EVs.
Lyle Sloan
--- John Wayland
> Hello to All,
>
> Mike Chancey wrote:
>
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > We made it! It has been a long long haul...
> > Thank you all so much for helping make this
> happen.
>
>
> No Mike, it's the other way around. Thank YOU, for
> all the hard work and
> the dedication you've shown in creating, nurturing,
> and supporting the
> fabulous 'EV Photo Album'! I can say with absolute
> certainty, that
> referring possible sponsors, journalists, and other
> media folks to the
> EVPA, has resulted in all kinds of positive results
> for not just me, but
> for the EV movement as a whole. Sure EV racers, EV
> designers, EV
> builders, and EV promoters all do their part, but
> it's my personal
> belief that your EVPA is one of the biggest forces
> that compels people
> to realize that EVs are not going away, that they're
> not just
> 'vaporware', and that they are viable alternative
> transportation.
>
> Congrats to you, Mike, and thank you so much!
>
> See Ya......John Wayland
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
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