EV Digest 6361
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Issues with K&W charger
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Debating purchasing an EV
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Serious gassing when charging
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Motor Controller for Capacitor Powered Vehicle
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: pulse n glide .. regen .. (was Re: Brake lights on regen - so
lved) .. part 3
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) OT: pulse n glide .. regen .. (was Re: Brake lights on regen - so
lved) .. part 2
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Issues with K&W charger
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Subject: Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle/PV pa nels
by xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Starting out on a EV in the UK
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Serious gassing when charging
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: push and go vs regen (was Re: Brake lights on regen)
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Serious gassing when charging- and inconsistant craiglist?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Issues with K&W charger
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Debating purchasing an EV
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: pulse n glide .. regen .. (was Re: Brake lights on regen - solved) ..
part 2
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: pulse n glide .. regen .. (was Re: Brake lights on regen - solved) ..
part 3
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: pulse n glide .. regen .. (was Re: Brake lights on regen - solved) ..
part 3 .. jerky and takes more power ?
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: pulse n glide .. regen .. (was Re: Brake lights on regen - solved) ..
part 3
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Howdy all,
I've been having some issues with the K&W charger on my truck (
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/882). I have an old BC-20 with the LB-120
boost transformer. I finally put in a dedicated 30A circuit for my truck in
the garage (yay!) so I cranked up the amps on the BC-20. Immediately, it
popped the little white breaker on the LB-120 (looks like a turkey
thermometer popping out to tell you it's done). I found that I can't let
the needle on the BC-20 to go above mid-way as I'm adjusting the current
setting or it will sooner or later trip the breaker. I think that's about
12-13 amps, based on the assumption that it goes from 0-25A. Believe it or
not, I can't actually read the thing in its current position behind the
bench seat. I once used a mirror to read it, but I can't recall it
exactly.
I'm also having an issue with too much gassing, but I'll post that
separately once I've tested a couple of ideas sparked by the recent thread
about a similar issue.
Is there an easy way to resolve my issue with that oversensitive breaker?
Do I need to replace the BC-20? It is a bit noisy and I'm not sure if
that's normal or not. Eventually, I'd like to replace the whole charger
since I'd like to move up to a 156V or larger pack.
Matt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Matt,
Because the bed is only sheet metal, you need 2 people to lift it
off, so you can install hinges at the end of your frame rails,
bolting to a profile at the bottom of the bed.
After that you can tilt the bed backwards single-handedly because
you lift only half the weight.
Your choice if you want an automatic lift mechanism, for example
a scissor-type lifter, or use gas-filled springs to help keep the
bed up once you lifted it, or rely on your own force and only use
some wooden beams to prop the bed up. (Even with gas lift you need
to secure the bed against falling down on a wind gust)
Pay attention to the wiring of the tail lights.
Often the return (ground) is the bed, so after installing the
hinges, the lights don't work well and you need a short ground
wire between bed and a frame rail.
Reason almost everyone installs a bed that can lift is the
improved access to the battery box underneath.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Matt Kenigson
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 4:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Debating purchasing an EV
If this is the truck, I'd say it's a pretty good deal. You'll want to
replace the controller and the charger in the long term (they're similar to
what I have now and I'm itchin' to upgrade) but they'll do well in
flat-country Florida. Also, the fact it has a lift-up bed with gas springs
is very nice. I wish I had that on my truck and I'm not quite sure how to
even get started on getting that done. I doubt it's something I could do.
Having an emeter is nice, too.
If you have a short and predictable commute, I'd even recommend finding some
golf courses and golf cart dealers in your area and seeing if you couldn't
put together a set of 20 used 6V batteries in decent shape so the first pack
you kill is inexpensive. Also, once you get a new pack after killing the
first one, you'll get the psychological boost of a peppier vehicle to make
up for the expense. :)
All that being said, I'm with Damon about looking up Steve Clunn and other
EVers in Florida. You have a good crop over there. Hey, maybe you'd even
be interested in waiting for the Freedom EV...
Matt
On 1/28/07, damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It sounds like you are talking about this truck on the EVAlbum.
>
>
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/index.php?method=showdetails&list=adver
tisement&rollid=1285
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
> Your charger is broken.
While I agree fully with Cor's assessment above, I cannot let the
following pass without comment:
> Floodeds can be hit with a higher voltage than sealed batteries,
> but in general the charger should stay below 13.7V for the bulk
> charging (no gassing) and only during the end of the charge cycle
> the voltage can climb to somewhere around 15V per battery, while
> the current is tapering down to avoid excessive over-charge.
This is incorrect. 13.6-13.8V is a *float* charge level for 12V lead
acid batteries, and is compeletely unsuitable as a charging voltage for
batteries that are cycled daily as there will not be enough hours
between use for the batteries to reach a full state of charge. Even in
float applications, gel and AGM charge recommendations are for higher
voltages than this. For cyclic applications such as our EVs, battery
manufacturers pretty much always recommend a charge voltage of
14.4-14.8V per 12V battery as appropriate, even for sealed AGMs and gel
types. Flooded batteries can and will harmlessly exceed 2.5V/cell (15V
per 12V battery) during the finish portion of charge.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You would need something that can take a very high initial voltage as
well as a relatively low voltage. A combined buck / boost (not
buck-boost) supply would probably be used to get a consistent voltage
out to the motor. It's most difficult because components rated for very
high voltage also have very high losses at high currents (low voltage)
--
Martin K
Bruce wrote:
Does anyone have any ideas on what kind of controller would work well for a
small vehicle powered by (instead of batteries), a very large bank of
capacitors?
I understand that SCR based controllers are hard on batteries because of
their slow switching speed and large current spikes. Perhaps this would not
be a problem with capacitor power? Might an SCR based controller be
simpler, cheaper and more rugged than a more modern MOSFET controller?
Any thoughts on this?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Peekay,
Since this technique has no merit to EVs, you should ask
it on another forum.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of peekay
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 6:57 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: pulse n glide .. regen .. (was Re: Brake lights on regen -
solved) .. part 3
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:04 AM
> I have learned how to drive economically
now i have a proposition :
can we add some devices where i can set the upper
and lower limits of speed .. this would work like
this :
when i reach the upper speed which i set, the power
shoud cut off .. when i reach the lower speed, the
power should come on and accelerate to that upper
speed limit which i set
this setting of the upper and lower speeds will be
different for different roads and driving conditions
a) min 40 kmph .. max 60 kmph
b) min 30 kmph .. max 50 kmph
c) min 20 kmph .. max 40 kmph
d) min 10 kmpw .. max 20 kmph
this would work for freeways .. to congested roads
all i need to do then is to keep my accelerator pressed ..
and the motor will work only when speed drops to lower
than the min limit .. and cuts off when it crosses the max
limit
i will need freedom to keep shifting my lower and upper
limits on the fly .. maybe like two levers on the erstwhile
tram cars
..peekay
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Peekay,
Great that you discovered the benefits of this technique.
Since it does not relate to EVs, this should be taken off
the EV list.
When you google for "Hypermilers" or "pulse and glide"
you will find a wealth of info on this subject from all
kinds of car enthusiasts, including Hybrid owners who
do not even need to switch their engine off if it's the
Toyoty type of setup.
BTW - make sure your steering column never locks up when
turning the engine off, some locks have no setting between
"ON" and "locked".
I see that you rather wear out your clutch than your starter ;-)
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of peekay
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 6:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: pulse n glide .. regen .. (was Re: Brake lights on regen -
solved) .. part 2
now the rest of the proposition ..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:04 AM
> Coasting ...
> I have learned how to drive economically and can judge
> pretty well at what distance I can release the accelerator
> to coast down to the light and I can judge whether the
> road is busy, so I better keep my speed up a bit and need
> to brake when I reach the light if it has not turned green
> yet, or if the road is quiet so I can coast down to a stop
> without ever braking.
during concious observing of driving habits after reading
about the pulse n glide method of driving around .. i was
really stunned at the increase in mileage by just a little
change in driving methods .. upto a max of 80 % .. amazing
.. and naturally not to be believed .. so i repeated this over
several weeks .. and then over several months .. and the
extra mileage works out to 50 % more over the earlier
way of driving .. so i can now drive in 2 litres where i
used to burn 3 litres of petrol !
the method is standard and simple .. just pulse and glide !
accelerate to 60 km per hr .. switch off the engine ..
put the gear lever in neutral position .. and glide !
when the car slows down to 40 km per hr .. turn the
starting switch to the "on" position .. engage in the
last gear say 4th .. release the clutch a bit .. engine starts ..
shift to 3rd gear .. "pulse" the care .. accelerate to
60 km per hr .. and repeat the cycle
this made me look for long roads with minimum stop and
go possibilities .. and .. made me enjoy the wind .. strangely
75 % of the time the engine is switched off !
..peekay
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--- Begin Message ---
Ahhh yes, the old K&W.
On one hand, it is a reliable, programmable, SAFE
charger (ie, comes with GFCI).
On the other hand, it induces harmonics, which as far
as I'm concerned, means that although your meter reads
7A, you're actually putting in 15 (for example) into
the car, and yes, enough to heat up your wiring and
trigger the breaker.
Your solution is to turn down the current until the
K&W won't set it off, or buy a different charger.
As far as the gassing, either a) your batteries are
already charged (check specific gravity); b) your
voltage is way too high (check the programming
resistor inside the charger-- I can fax you a manual
if you don't already have one)-- that's all I can
think of off-hand...
peace,
--- Matt Kenigson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Howdy all,
>
> I've been having some issues with the K&W charger on
> my truck (
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/882). I have an old
> BC-20 with the LB-120
> boost transformer. I finally put in a dedicated 30A
> circuit for my truck in
> the garage (yay!) so I cranked up the amps on the
> BC-20. Immediately, it
> popped the little white breaker on the LB-120 (looks
> like a turkey
> thermometer popping out to tell you it's done). I
> found that I can't let
> the needle on the BC-20 to go above mid-way as I'm
> adjusting the current
> setting or it will sooner or later trip the breaker.
> I think that's about
> 12-13 amps, based on the assumption that it goes
> from 0-25A. Believe it or
> not, I can't actually read the thing in its current
> position behind the
> bench seat. I once used a mirror to read it, but I
> can't recall it
> exactly.
>
> I'm also having an issue with too much gassing, but
> I'll post that
> separately once I've tested a couple of ideas
> sparked by the recent thread
> about a similar issue.
>
> Is there an easy way to resolve my issue with that
> oversensitive breaker?
> Do I need to replace the BC-20? It is a bit noisy
> and I'm not sure if
> that's normal or not. Eventually, I'd like to
> replace the whole charger
> since I'd like to move up to a 156V or larger pack.
>
> Matt
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> OK, time for a quick reality check:
>
> even if you could fit 6 220W units,
> half the power is 1/2 x 6 x 220 = 660W.
> (accounting for losses, wrong inclination as the
> panels won't be aimed at the sun and voltage
> mismatch)
Yes, I don't know how I got 1000W.
> Even if you would be able to capture a full day
> worth of sun, that would translate into about
> 4 or 5 "full sun" hours (accounting for worse
> inclination in morning and evening) so this
> gives you about 4.5 x 660 = 3000Wh.
Well I de-rated the panels by half to take into
consideration the lack of full sun and poor angle. Do
you think the panels would still put out only half
their rated power during peak hours?
> Dependent on the efficiency of the van, assume 1/2
> kWh/mi
> this would give you 6 miles extra range in the
> evening.
> Again, assuming that we can ignore added air
> resistance
> and weight.
200lbs is one passenger, and as I've mentioned before,
the air drag can be almost negligible with a small
angle piece on the leading edge of the first panel to
smooth the flow. They are not quite 2" thick, I don't
see how they'd induce much resistance.
Your points on cost are very relevant. I had no idea
of the costs involved. Maybe someday if Nansolar comes
to market as they are planning costs will be more
reasonable.
John
> This panel is 5' x 3' and almost 2" thick according
> http://www.sunpowercorp.com/pdf/SPR-220.pdf
> and delivers 40V at 5.5A in their max power point.
> Price per panel is about 2500 $AU, which is approx
> 0.77 x 2500 = US$ 1925 so 6 panels will require an
> investment of US$ 11,550
> Now add the DC/DC converter or charge regulator to
> keep the panels in their max power point and you are
> well above 12k dollars and in the best of cases you
> can add 6 miles to your range each day.
> If you do the math, you will see that even in the
> most optimal of cases, you would spend about $1 per
> mile
> for this range extension.
> Since most EVs try to get their cost below $0.10 per
> mile
> accounting for batteries and $0.02 for electricity
> cost,
> the $1 per mile for adding solar electricity does
> not
> really make sense, unless it solves a problem that
> you have.
>
> For example if your EV is driven less than once a
> week and
> you have no reliable access to a wall outlet, then
> this may
> be a possible way to solve that problem.
>
> Note that the Sunpower units are one of the most
> expensive
> panels in existtence, because they are the highest
> efficiency
> which means that you can go for much lower cost by
> lowering
> the efficiency a bit. Solar panels can be had for
> under
> $5 per watt so the total 1320W array should not cost
> more
> than $6600, half the cost of SunPower 220.
> Still at $0.50 per mile, if sounds awfully expensive
> to me.
>
> Now, when you place the same panels at a sun-facing
> roof,
> feed the power into batteries or the grid and get
> the
> solar rebates that your government is handing out,
> the
> balance can become a lot better, because losses are
> greatly reduced, the nr of days is not dependent on
> your
> driving somewhere and the inclination problems can
> get
> an optimized solution, dropping the cost per kWh due
> to
> the larger amount of kWh produced and utilized.
>
> Hope this clarifies,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private:
> http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567
> FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life:
>
www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Forklift motors are usually a series motor or some sort.of pump motor for
hydraulics. I took apart a fork lift once and got two pump motors and two
serise motors. Motors of this kind rev to about 6k rpms safely. Lawrence
Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Chambers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 3:49 PM
Subject: RE: Starting out on a EV in the UK
> Hi James,
>
> Thanks for the advice. I think I'll be looking down the Forklift motor
> route. I'm currently a student so my budget isn't that massive hence I
> should imagine pretty much everything I can, will be scavenged from a junk
> yard.
>
> I still haven't decided quite what donor car I should be looking at. It's
> probably going to be a small or a fun car since I'll be primarily driving
it
> around town. If I did go down the forklift motor route, would it be
sensible
> looking at a diesel donor's? Since the gearbox would be geared for low
down
> torque, rather than high revs, hopefully I can get away with fewer
> modifications to the motor. My current diesel car has most of its power
from
> 1.8k-4k, while topping out completely at 4.5k. However I don't know the
rev
> limits on diesel gearboxes, but I assume forklift motors don't rev too
well?
>
> Kind Regards,
> Simon
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of James Massey
> Sent: 27 January 2007 2:40 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Starting out on a EV in the UK
>
> At 11:48 PM 26/01/07 +0000, Simon wrote:
> >My main issue at the moment is locating reasonable affordable motors. I
see
> >on evalbum that the Advance DC motor is extensively used in conversions,
> and
> >looking at the specs is understandable. Does anyone know of any UK
> suppliers
> >of EV motors that are at an affordable price?
>
> Richard Bebbington ia a motor distributor in South Wales, but I don't
> believe he (or anyone else in the UK for that matter) will have stock (at
> least Murphy will make it none of the size you need). One of the UK EVers
> should have more info.
>
> >Alternatively, are there any good types of motor that can be used in
EV's?
> >For example I've noticed that the series wound Winch Motors seem very
> >powerful (however I don't know what their life would be like in
continuous
> >usage) or
>
> The design life of winch motors us typically tens of hours, and their duty
> cycle is probably 30 seconds at rating, 5 min to cool down.
>
> >even forklift motors?
>
> Yes, many forklift(/towmotor/electric truck) motors are useable, the
> difference between a forklift traction motor and a road-going traction
> motor are typically as follows:
> - Forklift motors often have splined or tapered output shafts that are not
> so easy to use, but not impossible.
> - Some motors are made to fit a transmission housing (one of my ex-fork
> motors has a starter-motor bulge cast into the transmission adaptor) that
> means a non-standard adaptor.
> - Weight is usually not an issue, so they often have cast iron end plates
> instead of aluminium. I made a new end plate for my motor that does double
> duty - end plate and transmission adaptor.
> - They are optimised for torque instead of speed, so the fields are often
> series connection, with fairly high turn count, where on-road motors have
> fewer turns and have two paralell paths through the fields (a reasonably
> straigh-forward modification to change).
> - they are designed for more conservative amperages, so the brushes are
> relatively smaller for the size of the motor than many on-road designs, so
> you'd try and find a bigger motor (e.g. a 10" motor for a vehicle that
> could use an 8" ADC motor)
> - Some are totally enclosed, non-ventilated (TENV) use on-road an external
> blower should be used. The motor I'm preparing for my truck was 4.5hp but
> as big as a 45hp, due to being TENV.
> - The grade of brush material may be different.
>
> Haunt your local scrap dealers, make friends, beer is a good way to make
> them think of you and ring you up when something turns up. You may be
lucky
> enough to find a big, old 72V forklift or electric truck that will provide
> motor, contactors, cabling, maybe a controller, and all for scrap price. A
> Mitsubishi Colt was converted in Western Australia using a 72V fork motor
> that would burn rubber in 5th gear, but they couldn't get faster than
50mph
> (80km/h). They didn't do their research so changed out the motor for an
ADC
> that gave them more top speed but they had to use the gears as the torque
> was way down. They could have modded their motor or added bypass field
> weakening to increase top speed for much less money than the ADC would
have
> cost them.
>
> >Also why aren't 3-phase AC induction motor's (like what are attached to
> >lathes, mills, conveyor belts, etc) used in EV's? Since these produce
large
> >amounts of reliable torque for long periods.
>
> They are! However, to get a wide speed range and plenty of power relative
> to weight, the on-road motors are quite special, and the controllers are
as
> well. The differences principly are:
> - Normal 3-phase 50 or 60Hz, on-road 300Hz+
> - Normal motor speed 4-pole 1400RPM (50Hz) on-road 10,000RPM+
> - Normal motor has cast aluminium windings on rotor, on-road may have
copper
> - Normal motor air cooled, on-road motor often water cooled.
> Then the inverters:
> - Normal motor control: sensorless vector or similar, on-road often
encoder
> feedback
> - Normal speed control-constant speed, on-road constant torque.
> - Inverters for on-road are designed for low weight relative to power, and
> may be water cooled.
>
> It is possible to rewind and otherwise rebuild a normal induction motor
for
> on-road use, some inverters are happy to be used on DC (Eletronica
Santerno
> comes to mind). Programming the inverter to behave in constant torque may
> be an issue (so the vehicle throttle becomes a speed reference so you are
> in cruise control all the time, set by the accelerator).
>
> By the time you've done all that, you are likely to be better off getting
> one of the superbly engineered surplus EV systems that Siemens make, and
> comes with a 10 year warranty, unless you have access to rewinding etc at
a
> "mates rates" price.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Regards
>
> [Technik] James
> (in Australia)
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
In your plans for future modes consider a 48V nominal pack. There are a lot of
good Telco type charges on the market for 48V
equipment. Many are smart with multi-stage algorithms and with both user
adjustable regulation, float and equalize settings.
my listing:
http://anchorage.craigslist.org/for/269101089.html
they can also be found on e-bay at 3 times this cost, but still half the cost
of new.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> nikki wrote
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 7:15 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Serious gassing when charging
>
>
> The plan is to put ThunderSky 200AH cells in - probably shooting for
> a 42v nominal pack voltage, with Cedric Lynch's cell protectors on
> each cell. I should at least get a decent range then.
>
> If I can use a band-aid type fix (primarily for the pocket) until
> then I'll be happy!
>
> Nikki.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter Gabrielsson wrote:
I wasn't suggesting that you'd skip the brakes entirely. I was
pointing out that in normal driving the regen is capable of stopping
the car in reasonable time. After all 200 feet is about the length of
a freeway off-ramp, a rather scary short one even.
In practical terms I can take the Prizm from 80mph down to 20mph in the
space of a normal off-ramp using regen alone.
To do this stunt you need batteries that can take a 180+a charge (300v
base system) without popping over 1.167 volts per cell. AGMs are great
for this.
My guess is if I'm putting 180a into the pack at 350 volts then I am
dissipating 63kw at the pack. Given the energy being burned up by the
motor (whoops generator) and the IGBTs (90% efficient, so add 10%)
you're looking at a braking force of about 70kw.
That's enough to make a big difference.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I checked out your listing and this page,
http://anchorage.craigslist.org/for/269101089.html
It says 60Amps but checking the spec sheet you listed
it only says 22.5Amps.
I guess it's only 22.5 amps and the craigslist listing
is incorrect?
Thanks,
Rod
--- Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In your plans for future modes consider a 48V
> nominal pack. There are a lot of good Telco type
> charges on the market for 48V
> equipment. Many are smart with multi-stage
> algorithms and with both user adjustable regulation,
> float and equalize settings.
>
> my listing:
> http://anchorage.craigslist.org/for/269101089.html
>
> they can also be found on e-bay at 3 times this
> cost, but still half the cost of new.
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, Ak.
>
>
> > nikki wrote
> > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 7:15 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: Serious gassing when charging
> >
> >
> > The plan is to put ThunderSky 200AH cells in -
> probably shooting for
> > a 42v nominal pack voltage, with Cedric Lynch's
> cell protectors on
> > each cell. I should at least get a decent range
> then.
> >
> > If I can use a band-aid type fix (primarily for
> the pocket) until
> > then I'll be happy!
> >
> > Nikki.
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm having the same problem. I suspect the breaker is defective.
I bought some new breakers off eBay and I'm planning on replacing it.
FWIW here is an eBay listing for the same breakers I bought:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110085909060
> Howdy all,
>
> I've been having some issues with the K&W charger on my truck (
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/882). I have an old BC-20 with the LB-120
> boost transformer. I finally put in a dedicated 30A circuit for my truck
> in
> the garage (yay!) so I cranked up the amps on the BC-20. Immediately, it
> popped the little white breaker on the LB-120 (looks like a turkey
> thermometer popping out to tell you it's done). I found that I can't let
> the needle on the BC-20 to go above mid-way as I'm adjusting the current
> setting or it will sooner or later trip the breaker. I think that's about
> 12-13 amps, based on the assumption that it goes from 0-25A. Believe it
> or
> not, I can't actually read the thing in its current position behind the
> bench seat. I once used a mirror to read it, but I can't recall it
> exactly.
>
> I'm also having an issue with too much gassing, but I'll post that
> separately once I've tested a couple of ideas sparked by the recent thread
> about a similar issue.
>
> Is there an easy way to resolve my issue with that oversensitive breaker?
> Do I need to replace the BC-20? It is a bit noisy and I'm not sure if
> that's normal or not. Eventually, I'd like to replace the whole charger
> since I'd like to move up to a 156V or larger pack.
>
> Matt
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Isn't there someone on this list that sells a lift kit for small pickup
beds? I am looking for such a kit for a conversion.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 5:18 PM
Subject: RE: Debating purchasing an EV
> Matt,
>
> Because the bed is only sheet metal, you need 2 people to lift it
> off, so you can install hinges at the end of your frame rails,
> bolting to a profile at the bottom of the bed.
> After that you can tilt the bed backwards single-handedly because
> you lift only half the weight.
> Your choice if you want an automatic lift mechanism, for example
> a scissor-type lifter, or use gas-filled springs to help keep the
> bed up once you lifted it, or rely on your own force and only use
> some wooden beams to prop the bed up. (Even with gas lift you need
> to secure the bed against falling down on a wind gust)
>
> Pay attention to the wiring of the tail lights.
> Often the return (ground) is the bed, so after installing the
> hinges, the lights don't work well and you need a short ground
> wire between bed and a frame rail.
>
> Reason almost everyone installs a bed that can lift is the
> improved access to the battery box underneath.
>
> Success,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Matt Kenigson
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 4:25 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Debating purchasing an EV
>
>
> If this is the truck, I'd say it's a pretty good deal. You'll want to
> replace the controller and the charger in the long term (they're similar
to
> what I have now and I'm itchin' to upgrade) but they'll do well in
> flat-country Florida. Also, the fact it has a lift-up bed with gas
springs
> is very nice. I wish I had that on my truck and I'm not quite sure how to
> even get started on getting that done. I doubt it's something I could do.
> Having an emeter is nice, too.
>
> If you have a short and predictable commute, I'd even recommend finding
some
> golf courses and golf cart dealers in your area and seeing if you couldn't
> put together a set of 20 used 6V batteries in decent shape so the first
pack
> you kill is inexpensive. Also, once you get a new pack after killing the
> first one, you'll get the psychological boost of a peppier vehicle to make
> up for the expense. :)
>
> All that being said, I'm with Damon about looking up Steve Clunn and other
> EVers in Florida. You have a good crop over there. Hey, maybe you'd even
> be interested in waiting for the Freedom EV...
>
> Matt
>
> On 1/28/07, damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > It sounds like you are talking about this truck on the EVAlbum.
> >
> >
>
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/index.php?method=showdetails&list=adver
> tisement&rollid=1285
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/653 - Release Date: 1/26/2007
11:11 AM
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hello cor
this thread stops here
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:11 AM
Subject: OT: pulse n glide .. regen .. (was Re: Brake lights on regen -
solved) .. part 2
> Hi Peekay,
>
> Great that you discovered the benefits of this technique.
>
> Since it does not relate to EVs, this should be taken off
> the EV list.
> When you google for "Hypermilers" or "pulse and glide"
> you will find a wealth of info on this subject from all
> kinds of car enthusiasts, including Hybrid owners who
> do not even need to switch their engine off if it's the
> Toyoty type of setup.
>
> BTW - make sure your steering column never locks up when
> turning the engine off, some locks have no setting between
> "ON" and "locked".
>
> I see that you rather wear out your clutch than your starter ;-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of peekay
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 6:51 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: pulse n glide .. regen .. (was Re: Brake lights on regen -
> solved) .. part 2
>
>
> now the rest of the proposition ..
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:04 AM
> > Coasting ...
> > I have learned how to drive economically and can judge
> > pretty well at what distance I can release the accelerator
> > to coast down to the light and I can judge whether the
> > road is busy, so I better keep my speed up a bit and need
> > to brake when I reach the light if it has not turned green
> > yet, or if the road is quiet so I can coast down to a stop
> > without ever braking.
>
> during concious observing of driving habits after reading
> about the pulse n glide method of driving around .. i was
> really stunned at the increase in mileage by just a little
> change in driving methods .. upto a max of 80 % .. amazing
> .. and naturally not to be believed .. so i repeated this over
> several weeks .. and then over several months .. and the
> extra mileage works out to 50 % more over the earlier
> way of driving .. so i can now drive in 2 litres where i
> used to burn 3 litres of petrol !
>
> the method is standard and simple .. just pulse and glide !
> accelerate to 60 km per hr .. switch off the engine ..
> put the gear lever in neutral position .. and glide !
>
> when the car slows down to 40 km per hr .. turn the
> starting switch to the "on" position .. engage in the
> last gear say 4th .. release the clutch a bit .. engine starts ..
> shift to 3rd gear .. "pulse" the care .. accelerate to
> 60 km per hr .. and repeat the cycle
>
> this made me look for long roads with minimum stop and
> go possibilities .. and .. made me enjoy the wind .. strangely
> 75 % of the time the engine is switched off !
>
> ..peekay
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and
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>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/655 - Release Date: 1/28/2007
1:12 PM
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > peekay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > can we add some devices where i can set the upper
> > and lower limits of speed
> >
> > this setting of the upper and lower speeds will be
> > different for different roads and driving conditions
> >
> > a) min 40 kmph .. max 60 kmph
> > b) min 30 kmph .. max 50 kmph
> > c) min 20 kmph .. max 40 kmph
> > d) min 10 kmpw .. max 20 kmph
> >
> > all i need to do then is to keep my accelerator pressed ..
> > and the motor will work only when speed drops below
> > the min limit set .. and cuts off when it crosses the max
> > limit
>From: "ROBERT RICE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Hmmmmm? Sounds like something most EVerybody is pretty much equipped
with already; A right foot, and a brain(Logic Circuit) to operate it?
if this is true, then it is rather easy to implement .. if this saves energy
that is ! .. does it save or not cannot be determined only by "i am right,
you are wrong" .. but by facts .. backed with trials
..peekay
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I would think pulsing like that would be really jerky at best.
there has been no such design/discussion that i can find .. so
we can think/talk/conclude
> It always takes more power to accelerate than to maintain.
THIS is the crux of the issue .. does it take more power
to maintain speed ? or does it take more power to
pulse n glide with power to motor being off .. and
pulse n glide again when speed drops below the threshold
that one can set for the conditions around one ?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of ROBERT RICE
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 10:48
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: pulse n glide .. regen .. (was Re: Brake lights on regen -
> solved) .. part 3
>
>
>
> peekay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ----- Original Message
> -----
> From: "Cor van de Water"
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:04 AM
>
> > I have learned how to drive economically
>
> now i have a proposition :
>
> can we add some devices where i can set the upper and lower limits of
> speed .. this would work like this :
>
> when i reach the upper speed which i set, the power shoud cut off ..
> when i reach the lower speed, the power should come on and accelerate to
> that upper speed limit which i set
>
> this setting of the upper and lower speeds will be different for
> different roads and driving conditions
>
> a) min 40 kmph .. max 60 kmph
> b) min 30 kmph .. max 50 kmph
> c) min 20 kmph .. max 40 kmph
> d) min 10 kmpw .. max 20 kmph
>
> this would work for freeways .. to congested roads
>
> all i need to do then is to keep my accelerator pressed ..
> and the motor will work only when speed drops to lower than the min
> limit .. and cuts off when it crosses the max limit
>
> i will need freedom to keep shifting my lower and upper limits on the
> fly .. maybe like two levers on the erstwhile tram cars
>
> ..peekay
>
> Hi EVerybody;
>
> Hmmmmm? Sounds like something most EVerybody is pretty much equipped
> with already; A right foot, and a brain(Logic Circuit) to operate it?
>
> OK for folks wanting in the above, or wanting to cell fone, catch
> up on their reading, or diddling with the @#$%^ radios in cars nowadaze.
> There's always cruise control, although ya don't see it much in EV's
> yet.
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>
> ___________________________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/655 - Release Date: 1/28/2007
1:12 PM
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hello cor
sorry to sound dissenting ..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Since this technique has no merit to EVs, you should ask
> it on another forum.
pulse n glide works in ICE .. i have documented this in
my Zen .. with a minimum of 30% (approx) and a max
of 80% (approx) increase in mileage
i find no reason why this will not work in EV
it works in bicycles (the only reason for the ratchet
type gear in rear wheel) .. we paddle and relax
the ISSUE is this : which consumes more amps ?
maintaining speed with motor on all the time ..
OR
giving a mild push to restore speed to the set
upper threshold ?
let's say .. the thresholds are 25mph and 30mph
do i keep feeding the motor with amps from the
battery .. or do feed the motor with amps for
short periods of time ?
(wind resistance at such speeds won't be very very
high .. and therefore can be left out of this issue)
..peekay
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