EV Digest 6372
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Wooden battery spacers
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EVLN(Peugeot Dauphin E-tricycle, 186mi range, 90mph top speed)
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) noalox/nooxid
by "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Wooden battery spacers
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Looking for help on building an plug-in EV with Hub-motors.
by "G. N. Reddy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Wooden battery spacers
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Coasting with PMDC motor
by "John Foster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Looking for help on building an plug-in EV with Hub-motors.
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: hi all
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Coasting with PMDC motor
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: hi all
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Coasting with PMDC motor
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Where did the RAV4 go?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Wooden battery spacers
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Distilled Water Source
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Honda CRX conversion on ebay
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Battery Beach Burnout
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: Wooden battery spacers
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) hi all
by "sushrut patgaonkar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Wooden battery spacers
by xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Coasting with PMDC motor
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Distilled Water Source
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: noalox/nooxid
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Coasting with PMDC motor
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) trojan price increase 150%?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Re: Wooden battery spacers
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: noalox/nooxid
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Richard,
PPE (or "polypee") is very resistant to bonding and chemicals of any kind
including battery acid. Just try epoxying it to anything and you'll know.
That's why they make good battery enclosures (when welded of course). Not
true of ABS. If it can be permanent, best bet would be to plastic weld the
PPE to the polycarb. I have done this successfully a few times. There are
some products out there that make welding dissimilar plastic possible, like
Fiberflex. I get my plastic welding supplies from
http://www.urethanesupply.com/. They're reasonably priced and very good
customer service.
Hope this helps.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 11:05 PM
Subject: Wooden battery spacers
In the conversion that I'm now doing, three of the five battery boxes are
designed to hold two levels of batteries. I am now experimenting with
various materials for use as spacers between the lower and upper levels.
In
other words, I will be using blocks setting on top of the lower batteries
as
supports for the upper ones.
Recent trials with plastics showed interesting results. Polypropylene and
ABS were both stuck to one of polycarbonate battery cases using 3M high
strength adhesive transfer tape. The inexpensive polypropylene did not
hold
a bond near as well as the more costly ABS. So ABS wins out for it's
ability to stay put.
After a lot of fussing, my thoughts went back to good ol' wood. It seems
that a solid and stable hardwood would give decent performance if the
environment remained mostly acid free. So I guess that is the question. Is
it unwise for me to consider using this organic material because of its
susceptibility to deterioration? These quality AGM's sure look
unthreatening at this point. What do you think?
Many Kw's of appreciation for your thoughts!
Note- The boxes are vented and I am building a killer charging system that
is a combination of PFC-30 for bulk charging and ventilated Soneil 3-amp
modulars for finishing.
Richard at N.W. Electric Vehicles
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After looking at the pix... I've gotta say... the guy who pushed this rig to
90 must have had some very good life insurance.
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "evlist" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 7:47 PM
Subject: EVLN(Peugeot Dauphin E-tricycle, 186mi range, 90mph top speed)
> EVLN(Peugeot Dauphin E-tricycle, 186mi range, 90mph top speed)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> http://blog.scifi.com/tech/archives/2007/01/30/peugeot_dauphin.html
> POSTED Tuesday, January 30, 2007
> Peugeot Dauphin: Electric vehicle concept is fast and efficient
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Also regarding your cleaning of posts.... after cleaning coat them with axle
> grease or vaseline, this will greatly increase the interval between cleanings.
> Some may suggest using Noalox which is a name brand for a substance used for
> NO
> ALuminum OXide. Since there shouldn't be any aluminum in your lead terminals
> it
> would for you just be an expensive form of vaseline or axle grease.
The appropriate thing (IMHO) to use is No-Ox-Id, which gets confused with
No-Al-Ox.
I put the stuff on all my connections just once when I assemble the pack. I
don't
wipe if off when I clean. After that, they never corrode. At least, mine never
have. YMMV.
Brian
Alfa Romeo Electric Conversion
http://www.skewray.com/alfa
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Space System Engineering and Optical Design
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Many early twentieth century EV manufacturers used wooden battery trays or
boxes.
Some, like Milburn, even mounted rollers on them for quick swapping the
packs at service stations. To those who think wood's bad because it might
absorb acid, I say 'haven't you ever heard of paint?... or better yet,
epoxy?. Seal the wood and most of the arguments go out the window---and
wood can be better than many materials if properly chosen for strength and
rigidity. Buy you do want to seal it. Both the 1921 Milburn and 1911
Hupp-Yeats I have used wooden boxes...but then plastics weren't exactly
around back then...
-Myles
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hai,
Can you please help me in building an plug-in EV with Hub-motors.
Did any one built-it before? If you did, I have quite a few questions.
Thanks for your help.
G. N. Reddy
Beaumont, Texas
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can fiberglass over wood too, which makes it stronger and protects
against water and acid.
However, getting epoxy & glass over wood is a special procedure due to
the rough wood surface, epoxy absorption, and other properties of the
wood like sap content. Boat builders do it all the time though so I'd
recommending looking them up on the web.
Danny
Myles Twete wrote:
Many early twentieth century EV manufacturers used wooden battery trays or
boxes.
Some, like Milburn, even mounted rollers on them for quick swapping the
packs at service stations. To those who think wood's bad because it might
absorb acid, I say 'haven't you ever heard of paint?... or better yet,
epoxy?. Seal the wood and most of the arguments go out the window---and
wood can be better than many materials if properly chosen for strength and
rigidity. Buy you do want to seal it. Both the 1921 Milburn and 1911
Hupp-Yeats I have used wooden boxes...but then plastics weren't exactly
around back then...
-Myles
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I guess it must be a pretty small loss then?
Is it practical to physically move the magnets out? I was thinking of trying
this for speed control with an electrathon motor.
- John Foster
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 7:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Coasting with PMDC motor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> How can a PMDC motor coast efficiently? Wouldnt the magnets slow down the
> rotor and convert the energy to waste heat? How do all the cars like Prius
> work on coasting then?
You are correct; PM motors have full magnetic losses regardless of
whether they are powered or not. So, they are more efficient at full
load (because no field power is needed), but less efficient at light
loads (because you can't weaken the field).
Vehicles with PM motors like the Prius just accept the no-load loss as a
fact of life.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What size EV did you have in mind? How big is your budget?
If you are talking about a car size EV, the only "hub" motors I'm aware of
cost over $20,000 each and you'll need several of them.
If you are talking about a bicycle size hybrid, then there are several
nice hub motors to choose from.
> Hai,
>
> Can you please help me in building an plug-in EV with Hub-motors.
> Did any one built-it before? If you did, I have quite a few questions.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> G. N. Reddy
> Beaumont, Texas
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Sushrut,
Just out of curiousity, are you fixated on this idea of a series hybrid,
or are you willing to listen when people tell you it's not a good idea?
Usings a genset powering an electric motor will result in a vehicle that
gets very poor milage and produces very high polution. Why would you want
to do that?
> what configurations of ac motors should i look for to get 150 kmph in an
> suv
>
>
> Ihave just found a jeep chassis
>
> i am goiing for ac motors
>
> i am thinking of a honda genset
>
> can such a genset power my ev
>
> what technicalities should i look out for when designing my ev
>
> i am a beginner so any and all information is useful
>
> thank you all
> Sushrut
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One tricky thing to try is to use a cone shaped armature and rotor.
That way you can adjust the airgap by moving the rotor axially. It
might be more trouble than it's worth though.
On 2/1/07, John Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I guess it must be a pretty small loss then?
Is it practical to physically move the magnets out? I was thinking of trying
this for speed control with an electrathon motor.
- John Foster
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 7:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Coasting with PMDC motor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> How can a PMDC motor coast efficiently? Wouldnt the magnets slow down the
> rotor and convert the energy to waste heat? How do all the cars like Prius
> work on coasting then?
You are correct; PM motors have full magnetic losses regardless of
whether they are powered or not. So, they are more efficient at full
load (because no field power is needed), but less efficient at light
loads (because you can't weaken the field).
Vehicles with PM motors like the Prius just accept the no-load loss as a
fact of life.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The standard that most of the world uses (Metric) so this would be
kilometer per hour.
150km/h is about 94 mph (miles per hour)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Dymaxion
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 1:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: hi all
"150 kmph"
Do you mean
150,000 mph?
150 km?
150 miles?
150 km/hr?
150 mph?
150 kWhr/mi?
No matter what the answer, a Jeep is one of the worst aero cars you could
pick, and the 4WD adds drag and weight.
----- Original Message ----
From: sushrut patgaonkar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2007 1:27:00 PM
Subject: hi all
what configurations of ac motors should i look for to get 150 kmph in an suv
Ihave just found a jeep chassis
i am goiing for ac motors
i am thinking of a honda genset
can such a genset power my ev
what technicalities should i look out for when designing my ev
i am a beginner so any and all information is useful
thank you all
Sushrut
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For your electrathon, If you are worried about the
loss, Keep it simple and just use a clutch to
disengage the motor for coasting. Unless of course,
this mechanism to move magnets is durable and
ultralight.
--- John Foster wrote:
>
> I guess it must be a pretty small loss then?
>
> Is it practical to physically move the magnets out?
> I was thinking of trying
> this for speed control with an electrathon motor.
>
> - John Foster
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Lee Hart
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 7:12 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Coasting with PMDC motor
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > How can a PMDC motor coast efficiently? Wouldnt
> the magnets slow down the
> > rotor and convert the energy to waste heat? How do
> all the cars like Prius
> > work on coasting then?
>
> You are correct; PM motors have full magnetic losses
> regardless of
> whether they are powered or not. So, they are more
> efficient at full
> load (because no field power is needed), but less
> efficient at light
> loads (because you can't weaken the field).
>
> Vehicles with PM motors like the Prius just accept
> the no-load loss as a
> fact of life.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Proceeds to go to the EV Club"?
That sounds suspicious - who donates $67,000 to an EV club?
"to contact the cops" sounds like it was a scam.
Just guessing here - the people involved should be contacted
to find out the real cause, if you really want to know.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Christopher Zach
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 6:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Where did the RAV4 go?
Cor van de Water wrote:
> Chris,
>
> You mean the one in Menlo Park, CA, listing 300070153039?
> That is around the corner from here!
No. There was one being sold by an EV club out there. Proceeds to go to
the EV club, posted to a bunch of EV lists..
It wasn't ended early, it was canceled with a message to all bidders
saying that the seller has been suspended and if you get an offer to buy
the item to contact the cops. Which was pretty heavy-handed I think.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I work in a boatyard that does cold-molding (wood/epoxy). We use West Systems
epoxy products. Not a big deal to epoxy over wood at all IMO.
http://www.westsystem.com/
----- Original Message ----
From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 2, 2007 1:40:58 AM
Subject: Re: Wooden battery spacers
You can fiberglass over wood too, which makes it stronger and protects
against water and acid.
However, getting epoxy & glass over wood is a special procedure due to
the rough wood surface, epoxy absorption, and other properties of the
wood like sap content. Boat builders do it all the time though so I'd
recommending looking them up on the web.
Danny
Myles Twete wrote:
>Many early twentieth century EV manufacturers used wooden battery trays or
>boxes.
>Some, like Milburn, even mounted rollers on them for quick swapping the
>packs at service stations. To those who think wood's bad because it might
>absorb acid, I say 'haven't you ever heard of paint?... or better yet,
>epoxy?. Seal the wood and most of the arguments go out the window---and
>wood can be better than many materials if properly chosen for strength and
>rigidity. Buy you do want to seal it. Both the 1921 Milburn and 1911
>Hupp-Yeats I have used wooden boxes...but then plastics weren't exactly
>around back then...
>
>-Myles
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Never Miss an Email
Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!
http://mobile.yahoo.com/services?promote=mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Or you could just buy a dehumidifier, see Consumer Reports for good
one's.
Mark
Date:
Thu, 01 Feb 2007 20:28:20 +1100 To: [email protected] From: "James
Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Distilled water sources. Plain
Text Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ]
At 06:29 PM 31/01/07 -0600, Matt wrote: >I might go that route. With
distilled water as much as $2.50 per gallon in >our grocery stores over
here, I've been using (please don't flame me) water >from our fridge's
built-in water purifier. I figured it probably doesn't >get all the
minerals out, but it probably comes pretty close. Is this a >really bad
idea? > >I'll look at the Sears water purifier (what makes it different from
my >fridge's built-in?) and see if I can't find anything online for water
>distillation. G'day Matt, and All If your 'fridge has a built-in
purifier, it may be just draining into a collector the condensate that a
'normal' fridge drains down the back and into a dish on top of the motor to
evaporate away. Since the water in a fridge gets there by condensing onto the
chiller plate, that is distilled. What happens after it is condensed may
not keep it that way! I made a still since we needed to supply our customers
with high-quality distilled water for bench-top steam sterilizers. I know
it is high purity, since I've had it analysed. Several times. How to
make a still for distilled water (continuous flow): Get a good TIG welder (a
person that is - beer seems to be very effective as payment to metal
fabrication people) if you are not so competent yourself. To make the
condenser, get a piece of 4" stainless steel pipe about 10 or 12 inches
long, a bit of 1.5" tube and a length (6 meters here - about 20 feet) of
1/4" stainless tubing. Cut the tubing in half, and wind each half into
something like a spring (a lathe is good to do this with - grab a piece of 3"
bar and run the lathe slowly to wind the 'spring'). The 1 1/2" tube is
welded sticking sideways close to one end of the 4" pipe - it needs to
stick out a couple of inches. Put one half of the 1/4" tube in the upper
part, with an inch or two sticking out part way down. The other end
needs to have about 8" sticking out. Try and get the coil positioned fairly
central to the 4" tube, and not blocking the 1 1/2" too much. Put a flat
lid on this end (top). Now put the other coil in the 4" pipe, below the
first one, with a few inches sticking out each end. Make a stainless cone for
the bottom & weld it on. The boiling chamber can be a small electric
'jug' - a kettle with sides that taper out the higher they get that has no
switch off system. An 800 watt 'jug' will give about 1 litre an hour. In
order to stop the boiling water from 'spitting' into the condensate, a
baffle is needed - I cut two discs of stainless and drilled four 3/4" holes
in each, then bolted them together about 1/2" apart so the holes didn't
line up. A 1/4" hole through both plates is needed. Cut a 1 1/2" hole in
the side of the jug, close to the top. This is for the condenser port. Cut
another disc for a lid, with a 1/4" hole in it. Drill a
hole in the side of the jug about 3/4" above the bottom, and another about
1/4" above that - they are the outflow and overflow, respectively - put about
2" of 1/4" tube sticking out of each, curved down at the ends. The long
tube out of the condenser goes through the boiling chamber lid and the
baffles, ending up just above the bottom of the 'jug'. High temperature
silicon sealer attaches the lid and seals around the steam outlet - leave
an inch or so space between the condenser and the 'jug'. Wrap the 'jug' in
rockwool, fibreglass insulation, etc, to make it as efficient as possible.
To the upper condenser tube, supply water through a small tap, turned on so
that the water flow once the boiler is filled comes out the outflow at about
5 to 10 drips per second. This rate is needed to prevent mud build-up in
the chamber - your rate may vary. Turn the water off and switch power on to
the 'jug' - once it is boiling nicely, turn
the condenser water back on - after a few seconds you'll get
drip-drip-drip... congratulations, distilled water! but after a minute oops -
there is steam coming out the bottom of the condenser - this is what the
second coil is for - add cooling water here until the steam stops. The
outflow of the boiling chamber is at 100 celcius, so be careful with it!
the amount of water coming out here is not taking energy away from distilled
water production as the make-up water from the condenser is entering at the
same temperature. The second cooler overflow should be warm or hot, but not
boiling, the condensate will be warm as it comes out. Throw away or drink
the first few gallons of condensate - there will be trace metals from the
stainless steel that are not good for a battery - there is not much there,
but you'll soon have more distilled water than you know what to do with,
you can be generous with it. Hope this helps Regards
[Technik] James
---------------------------------
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Located in Utah is a 72Volt Conversion- Maybe a
e-volks conversion from the description. For those
looking for prebuilt EV
Item: 200075312724
____________________________________________________________________________________
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Guys & Girls,
Did anyone take pictures of the EV participants? I am particularly
interested in the Freedom EV.
Pat
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is polyester resin still about half the price of epoxy? Are poly and
epoxy both unaffected by acid whatever? I know the epoxy will be
superior on the water (`cept cost perhaps), but maybe poly'd be OK on
shore?
tks
Lock
Toronto
human-electric hybrid pedestrian
--- Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I work in a boatyard that does cold-molding (wood/epoxy). We use
> West Systems epoxy products. Not a big deal to epoxy over wood at
> all IMO. http://www.westsystem.com/
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, February 2, 2007 1:40:58 AM
> Subject: Re: Wooden battery spacers
>
> You can fiberglass over wood too, which makes it stronger and
> protects
> against water and acid.
>
> However, getting epoxy & glass over wood is a special procedure due
> to
> the rough wood surface, epoxy absorption, and other properties of the
>
> wood like sap content. Boat builders do it all the time though so
> I'd
> recommending looking them up on the web.
>
> Danny
>
> Myles Twete wrote:
>
> >Many early twentieth century EV manufacturers used wooden battery
> trays or
> >boxes.
> >Some, like Milburn, even mounted rollers on them for quick swapping
> the
> >packs at service stations. To those who think wood's bad because it
> might
> >absorb acid, I say 'haven't you ever heard of paint?... or better
> yet,
> >epoxy?. Seal the wood and most of the arguments go out the
> window---and
> >wood can be better than many materials if properly chosen for
> strength and
> >rigidity. Buy you do want to seal it. Both the 1921 Milburn and
> 1911
> >Hupp-Yeats I have used wooden boxes...but then plastics weren't
> exactly
> >around back then...
> >
> >-Myles
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Never Miss an Email
> Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/services?promote=mail
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
thank you all for the advice
i am beginning to work in that direction
i will keep posting as and when i need help or problems surface
thank you
Sushrut
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Polyester does not bond as well as epoxy to wood, or
to pretty much anything else for that matter. It is
more porous than Epoxy and also breaks down some types
of foam. You won't be using all that much to coat
something, so I'd stick with Epoxy. I've made things
out of the blue or pink foam insulation boards coated
with Epoxy and sometimes fiberglass cloth and they are
pretty rugged.
John
--- Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is polyester resin still about half the price of
> epoxy? Are poly and
> epoxy both unaffected by acid whatever? I know the
> epoxy will be
> superior on the water (`cept cost perhaps), but
> maybe poly'd be OK on
> shore?
> tks
> Lock
> Toronto
> human-electric hybrid pedestrian
>
> --- Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I work in a boatyard that does cold-molding
> (wood/epoxy). We use
> > West Systems epoxy products. Not a big deal to
> epoxy over wood at
> > all IMO. http://www.westsystem.com/
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: [email protected]
> > Sent: Friday, February 2, 2007 1:40:58 AM
> > Subject: Re: Wooden battery spacers
> >
> > You can fiberglass over wood too, which makes it
> stronger and
> > protects
> > against water and acid.
> >
> > However, getting epoxy & glass over wood is a
> special procedure due
> > to
> > the rough wood surface, epoxy absorption, and
> other properties of the
> >
> > wood like sap content. Boat builders do it all
> the time though so
> > I'd
> > recommending looking them up on the web.
> >
> > Danny
> >
> > Myles Twete wrote:
> >
> > >Many early twentieth century EV manufacturers
> used wooden battery
> > trays or
> > >boxes.
> > >Some, like Milburn, even mounted rollers on them
> for quick swapping
> > the
> > >packs at service stations. To those who think
> wood's bad because it
> > might
> > >absorb acid, I say 'haven't you ever heard of
> paint?... or better
> > yet,
> > >epoxy?. Seal the wood and most of the arguments
> go out the
> > window---and
> > >wood can be better than many materials if
> properly chosen for
> > strength and
> > >rigidity. Buy you do want to seal it. Both the
> 1921 Milburn and
> > 1911
> > >Hupp-Yeats I have used wooden boxes...but then
> plastics weren't
> > exactly
> > >around back then...
> > >
> > >-Myles
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Never Miss an Email
> > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile.
> Get started!
> > http://mobile.yahoo.com/services?promote=mail
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Want to start your own business?
Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This company uses a low power gear motor to move the
rotor in and out of the stator to minimize loss and
increase efficiency depending on the load point,
http://www.variabletorquemotors.com/
Rod
--- John Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I guess it must be a pretty small loss then?
>
> Is it practical to physically move the magnets out?
> I was thinking of trying
> this for speed control with an electrathon motor.
>
> - John Foster
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Lee Hart
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 7:12 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Coasting with PMDC motor
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > How can a PMDC motor coast efficiently? Wouldnt
> the magnets slow down the
> > rotor and convert the energy to waste heat? How do
> all the cars like Prius
> > work on coasting then?
>
> You are correct; PM motors have full magnetic losses
> regardless of
> whether they are powered or not. So, they are more
> efficient at full
> load (because no field power is needed), but less
> efficient at light
> loads (because you can't weaken the field).
>
> Vehicles with PM motors like the Prius just accept
> the no-load loss as a
> fact of life.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2 Feb 2007 at 5:22, Mark E. Hanson wrote:
> Or you could just buy a dehumidifier, see Consumer Reports for good
> ones.
It's tough to keep mold and dust in the air from invading, though. You'd
still need a very good filter.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, you have to be careful of what type of contact aid you used. Several
years ago, I use a compound that we use in our electrical work. It was
Burndy Penetrox A design for low voltages under 600 volts.
This compound is design for aluminum to aluminum, aluminum to copper, copper
to copper, and plated alloy connections. I use it only one time on six
battery mechanical connections, (all the rest of the battery connections had
welded on links).
When I tried to moved the EV, it like it loss 90 percent of the power. I
had to press the accelerator clear to the floor to get any movement. Wipe
off the compound and I had my power back.
The problem is, that this compound is used under high pressure connections
which are install with hydraulic pressure. So the low pressure of battery
connections of 100 inch lbs did not work for me with this type of compound.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 11:05 PM
Subject: noalox/nooxid
> > Also regarding your cleaning of posts.... after cleaning coat them with
> > axle
> > grease or vaseline, this will greatly increase the interval between
> > cleanings.
> > Some may suggest using Noalox which is a name brand for a substance used
> > for NO
> > ALuminum OXide. Since there shouldn't be any aluminum in your lead
> > terminals it
> > would for you just be an expensive form of vaseline or axle grease.
>
> The appropriate thing (IMHO) to use is No-Ox-Id, which gets confused with
> No-Al-Ox.
> I put the stuff on all my connections just once when I assemble the pack.
> I don't
> wipe if off when I clean. After that, they never corrode. At least, mine
> never
> have. YMMV.
>
> Brian
> Alfa Romeo Electric Conversion
> http://www.skewray.com/alfa
>
> --
> Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Space System Engineering and Optical Design
> Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's a 'cone shaped' motor armature for reference,
http://www.novatorque.com/publications.html
Rod
--- Peter Gabrielsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> One tricky thing to try is to use a cone shaped
> armature and rotor.
> That way you can adjust the airgap by moving the
> rotor axially. It
> might be more trouble than it's worth though.
>
>
> On 2/1/07, John Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I guess it must be a pretty small loss then?
> >
> > Is it practical to physically move the magnets
> out? I was thinking of trying
> > this for speed control with an electrathon motor.
> >
> > - John Foster
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Lee Hart
> > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 7:12 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: Coasting with PMDC motor
> >
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > How can a PMDC motor coast efficiently? Wouldnt
> the magnets slow down the
> > > rotor and convert the energy to waste heat? How
> do all the cars like Prius
> > > work on coasting then?
> >
> > You are correct; PM motors have full magnetic
> losses regardless of
> > whether they are powered or not. So, they are more
> efficient at full
> > load (because no field power is needed), but less
> efficient at light
> > loads (because you can't weaken the field).
> >
> > Vehicles with PM motors like the Prius just accept
> the no-load loss as a
> > fact of life.
> > --
> > Ring the bells that still can ring
> > Forget the perfect offering
> > There is a crack in everything
> > That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
> Cohen
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> www.electric-lemon.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My vehicle repair just jumped 150%
Is this true for anyone else.?
I purchased 1 Trojan T-125 3 months ago for $85
The same store just quoted me $140 per battery (and that's not even with
the post I want).
I'm tempted to just drop the 3 batteries entirely and run at 138 Volts
(compared to 156) if I could figure the easiest way to reset the Zivan
without the $140 for roundtrip shipping and California Zivan to reprogram
it. Other recomendations?
What happened?! to battery pricing?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I use a epoxy coating which is a two part mixed from one of those kits for
recoating sinks and tub, that I got Home Depot. It leaves a very hard thick
gloss surface, that is very easy to clean. My battery box surfaces are still
gleaming bright after 7 years now.
One time, I use a paint type of epoxy I got from a paint store, and it did
not work. The battery fumes discolor it and this epoxy stated to blister.
If using a epoxy coating, clean the surfaces with a epoxy thinner. My
surfaces are fiberglass, so this would etch the surface for a good bond.
The Sink and Tub cost me about $25.00 which was enough to coat 70 sf of
battery box twice. Use a epoxy thinner on the first coat to act as a primer
and apply the second coat without or with a little thinner for a very smooth
coat.
Mix a little bit at a time, about a pint and temper it with thinner or it
will set up too fast.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lock Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: Wooden battery spacers
> Is polyester resin still about half the price of epoxy? Are poly and
> epoxy both unaffected by acid whatever? I know the epoxy will be
> superior on the water (`cept cost perhaps), but maybe poly'd be OK on
> shore?
> tks
> Lock
> Toronto
> human-electric hybrid pedestrian
>
> --- Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I work in a boatyard that does cold-molding (wood/epoxy). We use
> > West Systems epoxy products. Not a big deal to epoxy over wood at
> > all IMO. http://www.westsystem.com/
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: [email protected]
> > Sent: Friday, February 2, 2007 1:40:58 AM
> > Subject: Re: Wooden battery spacers
> >
> > You can fiberglass over wood too, which makes it stronger and
> > protects
> > against water and acid.
> >
> > However, getting epoxy & glass over wood is a special procedure due
> > to
> > the rough wood surface, epoxy absorption, and other properties of the
> >
> > wood like sap content. Boat builders do it all the time though so
> > I'd
> > recommending looking them up on the web.
> >
> > Danny
> >
> > Myles Twete wrote:
> >
> > >Many early twentieth century EV manufacturers used wooden battery
> > trays or
> > >boxes.
> > >Some, like Milburn, even mounted rollers on them for quick swapping
> > the
> > >packs at service stations. To those who think wood's bad because it
> > might
> > >absorb acid, I say 'haven't you ever heard of paint?... or better
> > yet,
> > >epoxy?. Seal the wood and most of the arguments go out the
> > window---and
> > >wood can be better than many materials if properly chosen for
> > strength and
> > >rigidity. Buy you do want to seal it. Both the 1921 Milburn and
> > 1911
> > >Hupp-Yeats I have used wooden boxes...but then plastics weren't
> > exactly
> > >around back then...
> > >
> > >-Myles
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Never Miss an Email
> > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!
> > http://mobile.yahoo.com/services?promote=mail
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Roland, (and Brian)
After reading your post it became apparent to me that I either left a step out
or simply wrote it wrong...
The correct procedure is to clean the posts and terminals, assemble them,
torque 'em down, THEN coat with whatever protective substance you decide to
use...... I use axle grease, mainly because I have it. The idea is to keep the
acid mist and the air OFF your connections.
I s'pose you could even use paint here, or maybe that rubber tool coating
stuff. The neat thing about using rubber coating is, any loose connections
should be quite apparent by the melted/distorted rubber. Has any body tried
something similar?
But the point is... properly assemble your connections first , then coat them
to protect them.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:28 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: noalox/nooxid
>
> Yes, you have to be careful of what type of contact aid you used. Several
> years ago, I use a compound that we use in our electrical work. It was
> Burndy Penetrox A design for low voltages under 600 volts.
>
> This compound is design for aluminum to aluminum, aluminum to copper,
> copper
>
> to copper, and plated alloy connections. I use it only one time on six
> battery mechanical connections, (all the rest of the battery connections
> had
>
> welded on links).
>
> When I tried to moved the EV, it like it loss 90 percent of the power. I
> had to press the accelerator clear to the floor to get any movement. Wipe
> off the compound and I had my power back.
>
> The problem is, that this compound is used under high pressure connections
> which are install with hydraulic pressure. So the low pressure of battery
> connections of 100 inch lbs did not work for me with this type of
> compound.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 11:05 PM
> Subject: noalox/nooxid
>
>
>> > Also regarding your cleaning of posts.... after cleaning coat them
> with
>> > axle
>> > grease or vaseline, this will greatly increase the interval between
>> > cleanings.
>> > Some may suggest using Noalox which is a name brand for a substance
> used
>
>> > for NO
>> > ALuminum OXide. Since there shouldn't be any aluminum in your lead
>> > terminals it
>> > would for you just be an expensive form of vaseline or axle grease.
>>
>> The appropriate thing (IMHO) to use is No-Ox-Id, which gets confused
> with
>> No-Al-Ox.
>> I put the stuff on all my connections just once when I assemble the
> pack.
>> I don't
>> wipe if off when I clean. After that, they never corrode. At least,
> mine
>
>> never
>> have. YMMV.
>>
>> Brian
>> Alfa Romeo Electric Conversion
>> http://www.skewray.com/alfa
>>
>> --
>> Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Space System Engineering and Optical Design
>> Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
>>
>>
--- End Message ---
