EV Digest 6401
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: electric motor with a CVT
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Personal Electric Transport
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Panasonic contactor
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Good EV!!! Re: Personal Electric Transport
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Panasonic contactor
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Freedom EV update
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Crimping Tool Choice
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: electric motor with a CVT
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: [EV] Re: When a controller fails... question
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) URGENT CALL TO ACTION URGENT CALL TO ACTION
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Panasonic contactor
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Good EV!!! Re: Personal Electric Transport
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Looking for a controller...
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: FW: Personal Electric Transport
by "Kip C. Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Zener Regs?
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Speaking of Hybrids
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: wiring size back to the question...
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Personal Electric Transport
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Speaking of Hybrids
by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Panasonic contactor
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: soneil chargers
by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: electric motor with a CVT
by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: electric motor with a CVT
by Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Zener Regs?
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: [EV] Re: [EV] Re: When a controller fails... question
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Zener Regs?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Soneil Chargers
by Darryl McMahon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Speaking of Hybrids
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Can you give me his email address?
From: lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: electric motor with a CVT
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 05:00:26 -0800 (PST)
Tim,
Please ask Ray Wong. He has done it to his bike and
he can help guide you with the benifits and how he did
it. This will help in your decision and prevent you
from burning through several like he did trying to
find that sweet spot.
--- Tim Gamber <> wrote:
> If i was to make a electric motorcycle with a CVT
> what would i want it to
> do. Would i want it to let the motor get to full
> speed and then change the
> gear ratio or somewhere in between? Can you even
> adjust a cvt to shit at
> different rpms? Are most of them mechanical or
> computerized? can you program
> or adjust them?
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
>
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=43.658648~-79.383962&style=r&lvl=15&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=3702663&cid=7ABE80D1746919B4!1329
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
_________________________________________________________________
Free Alerts : Be smart - let your information find you !
http://alerts.live.com/Alerts/Default.aspx
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
me too, I am ready to go to their business and build
my own if they will let me and I will still pay them.
--- Mike Harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I will go so far as to say LOVE:) I'm smitten.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darin - at - metrompg.com"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 12:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Personal Electric Transport
>
>
> > Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> >> I like it! I wonder how much the kit is going to
> cost.
> >
> > I do too.
> >
> > Site says: "A completed BugE costs about $4000"
> > (http://blueskydsn.com/BugE_FAQ.htm), and, "The
> BugE kit will sell for
> > approx. $3000."
> (http://blueskydsn.com/BugE_Design_Concept.htm).
> >
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There doesn't seem to be an option for ordering one with a microswitch,
so your controller (eg. a Zilla) can't know whether the contactor is
open or closed.
Bummer, since otherwise these look great. It's nice to see that a
manufacturer has considered the sound made by the contactor's operation.
I don't mind a small click (and I personally don't mind a huge Albright
*clunk* either), but I think most people would prefer a quieter startup.
--chris
On Fri, 2007-02-09 at 12:36 -0800, Rod Hower wrote:
> http://pewa.panasonic.com/pcsd/distributors/distributors.html
>
> But I checked several distributors and they didn't
> have the 300A, 400V model. I'm guessing it's new and
> the distributors don't stock it yet.
> Perhaps you can give panasonic a call,
> 800-276-6289
>
> Rod
> --- Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > looks good, where can you buy them?
> >
> > Rod Hower wrote:
> > > Has anybody tried these on their EV,
> > >
> >
> http://pewa.panasonic.com/pcsd/product/pwr/pdf/mech_eng_ev.pdf
> > > It's rated at 300A and 400Vdc, can break 2500A.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Rod
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jimmy and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "jerryd" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Personal Electric Transport
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 18:09:13 -0000
>I gather the idea is to keep the weight to a minimum but
>still keep one dry.
As someone who has spent 200 hrs so far getting my
doors to work with more to go, my guess is he did it to save
time, money. Most just don't seem to appreciate just how
hard doors, canopies, ect are to do. If he had a door, he
would probably have to charge another grand for it. But even
as it is it would take a hard wind, rain to get one wet in
it.
The solution is making side curtains for bad weather.
Or better, an aero rear body would probably allow a 5 mph
higher speed if the chassis is good for it.
It's so much better looking than his earlier Gizmo, I
bet he sells a lot of them and rightly so. For all you who
want a MC EV, this is a good way to go with reliable
American EV parts, good batts, reasonably priced at $3-4K.
If I was in need of that type, I'd buy one.
> There is a video but I was not able to open it
>
>The runabout trike
>http://www.electric-cycle.com/index.html
>
>with a similar cover would be nice and could be registered
>as a bicycle
That company says they sell fairings but I didn't
see any. An Electro-thon fairing would work well on it. Not
sure where to buy them now though.
Jerry Dycus
>
>
>--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>> I think this is done by the folks who
>> broght us the Gizmo so likely to actually be produced.
>> The rear seems to be completely open.
>> Jerry Dycus
>>
>> ----- Original Message Follows -----
>> From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Subject: Personal Electric Transport
>> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 06:50:12 -0000
>>
>> >http://blueskydsn.com/BugE_Concept.html
>> >
>> >ADvanced DC 4001 series wound motor.
>> >
>> >Chain drive; 6/1 ratio.
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Robison wrote:
> There doesn't seem to be an option for ordering one with a
> microswitch, so your controller (eg. a Zilla) can't know
> whether the contactor is open or closed.
There's always the Kilovac LEV200:
<http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/LEV200_ds_9-1773439-1.pdf>
The LEV200H4NAA (aux contacts, 12V coil, threaded stud terminals for
coil connections) would be quite an attractive model. I've read that
the 100 piece price is $42, so onesies cost shouldn't be too unbearable.
Or, its slightly beefier big brother, the EV250-5A (which also includes
auxiliary contacts):
<http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev2505a.pdf>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
After the BBB Ev conference I got home and started
moving everthing into my new shop of about 2,000sq'. It
wasn't cheap but was nessasary to be indoors to speed up
work.
They wanted a $1200 deposit on the electric and I
told them for that amount, I'd make my own!! Luckily I
talked them down to a $200 deposit. Had they not redused it,
I'd just get the Ewoody back on the road and run the shop
off it's batteries ;^D
Yesterday I finished the rear trailing arm
suspension in composites. I think I overbuilt it but still
weighs only 5 lbs!! I used a core and wrapped it with
bi-axial FG with the same FG technics I use for the rollcage
but in epoxy resin.
Now working on getting all the joints in the doors,
hood, ect to be even and redoing the body molds so I never
have to do custom doors, windshields again!! I can't believe
how long they are taking.
It also helps laying up the body, roll cage,
cutting it's labor by 1/2 too. In putting in the windshield
mold plug allows me to cut a hole their so I can get into
the middle, inside the mold so I can reach all parts without
stretching to the max which lasdt time hurt my back. To do
it I have to reinforce the mold.
Next is to build the front suspension which I have
a good handle on now. Then it's just a matter of bolting
everything else on so finally seeing the light at the end of
the tunnel ;^D
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OR, you could simply spend $2500 on the unit itself:
http://cell-phone-accessories-wholesale.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=18954
MARK DUTKO wrote:
no kidding- there are others shipping the same tool for $15
On Feb 8, 2007, at 8:58 AM, Eric Poulsen wrote:
$41 for shipping? Seems pretty steep.
Jeff Shanab wrote:
I went to ebay and got one of those burndy y35 hydraulic units.
like 140082564416 or 160081493027
Best choice I ever made. With 26 batteries in two locations, breakers
and disconnects, I had over 60 crimps to do. The heavy duty connectors
for the 2/0 cable have orange stripes on them that the orange die
perfectly fits between.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's not for me to give. But if you saw his post on
the stocks earlier here......
--- Tim Gamber < wrote:
> Can you give me his email address?
>
>
> >From: lyle sloan > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: Re: electric motor with a CVT
> >Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 05:00:26 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >Tim,
> >
> >Please ask Ray Wong. He has done it to his bike
> and
> >he can help guide you with the benifits and how he
> did
> >it. This will help in your decision and prevent
> you
> >from burning through several like he did trying to
> >find that sweet spot.
> >
> >
> >--- Tim Gamber <> wrote:
> >
> > > If i was to make a electric motorcycle with a
> CVT
> > > what would i want it to
> > > do. Would i want it to let the motor get to full
> > > speed and then change the
> > > gear ratio or somewhere in between? Can you even
> > > adjust a cvt to shit at
> > > different rpms? Are most of them mechanical or
> > > computerized? can you program
> > > or adjust them?
> > >
> > >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
> > >
>
>http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=43.658648~-79.383962&style=r&lvl=15&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=3702663&cid=7ABE80D1746919B4!1329
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>____________________________________________________________________________________
> >Looking for earth-friendly autos?
> >Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos'
> Green Center.
> >http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Free Alerts : Be smart - let your information find
> you !
> http://alerts.live.com/Alerts/Default.aspx
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:27 AM 9/02/07 -0500, Jody wrote:
I don't know if this one would help you but there is one available on
ebay that can do 30 bar.
250022346641
Eduardo wrote
> So what other means are there to detect a reflex action to drop out
> the B+ contactor/contactors?
Get a friend in England to get you a pressure switch from the brake
system of a VSX Xantia. They have a 30 bar switch that makes the
suspension harder when the brake pedal is pressed hard. USe that to drop
the contactor.
G'day Jody
I prefer Eduardos' switch - brake fluid disolves a lot of things that other
things won't attack - and a lot of those things are materials that pressure
switches for industrial applications are made from.
This is your braking system, you can't 'take a chance'. It has to be right.
Thanks Eduardo, so to those in the UK, what do you know about this switch
for a Xantia?
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Come ONE Come ALL To OLYMPIA Washington
to put your Support behind House Bill 1820
What DATE: Wednesday February 14th, 2007
Where: Car Pooling from MC Electric Dearborne Street, Seattle
When: 1:30 p.m. push off time to Olympia
Who: All SEVA members or any one else who would like to
See the proliferation of EVs and NEV's by
making them more marketable, with a top speed of 35
in stead of the very limited 25 mph !
WHY: Read the attached ( twice corrected ) "Whereas" sheet
The total Bill, and all the facts behind it can be seen at the Wa Gov.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=1820&year=2007
See you there !!!!
If you plan on going down on your OWN, call MC Electric for further
Details on the exact building, and room number for the 3:30 pm hearing.
(206) 328 1750
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
that looks good too, ordered one for $64.
Roger Stockton wrote:
Christopher Robison wrote:
There doesn't seem to be an option for ordering one with a
microswitch, so your controller (eg. a Zilla) can't know
whether the contactor is open or closed.
There's always the Kilovac LEV200:
<http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/LEV200_ds_9-1773439-1.pdf>
The LEV200H4NAA (aux contacts, 12V coil, threaded stud terminals for
coil connections) would be quite an attractive model. I've read that
the 100 piece price is $42, so onesies cost shouldn't be too unbearable.
Or, its slightly beefier big brother, the EV250-5A (which also includes
auxiliary contacts):
<http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev2505a.pdf>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> As someone who has spent 200 hrs so far getting my
> doors to work with more to go, my guess is he did it to save
> time, money. Most just don't seem to appreciate just how
> hard doors, canopies, ect are to do. If he had a door, he
> would probably have to charge another grand for it. But even
> as it is it would take a hard wind, rain to get one wet in
> it.
>
Maybe one additional reason for the front and rear doors on the Loremo
- 2 big doors that do the work of 4 smaller ones.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> These motors have been discussed here - sorry, but MME will not sell
> inverters alone for these motors. Lot more things should
> be done right for it to work (contactors/precharge circuit
> for one) and if amateurs make it there is no guarantee the
> system will work, let alone work for 10 years.
>
> If Electro automotive is willing to sell you just inverter
> and back it up, good for you.
>
When everything is finally put together, an EV with those surplus
motors will probably cost more than just buying an all-in-one setup
like Victor offers; I wonder if you would have to machine your own
adapter for its twisted spline output shaft, let alone the time you
might need to "tune" any controller to work optimally with this motor.
These have been on eBay for a few years now from the seller marvin,
electro-marvin, or something like that - wonder who has had any luck
getting them to work.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The FAQ page suggests $4000.
I'll take one at that price.
-Kip
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
T o: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 10:54 AM
Subject: Fwd: FW: Personal Electric Transport
According to his design spec sheet, about $3,000.00
http://blueskydsn.com/BugE_Design_Concept.htm last line
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This looks like a very doable and fun project. Would it be too much to ask if
someone could explain the logic of this setup to me? 6.2 V in one direction
and 6.8 in the other? I'm not an electrical guy but can usually understand
once it's explained to me.
The other query is how much power is "lost" using this type of setup? Is it 3
watts/battery?
many thanks - this is a great list
----- Original Message ----
From: Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2007 10:27:35 AM
Subject: FW: Zener Regs?
Here's a pictorial step by step http://controller.junkymagi.com/Zener_Regs.pdf
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 4:36 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Zener Regs?
>
>
> Cor van de Water,
>
> Thank you for your valuable input to my regulator question. You mentioned
> home-brew Zener Regulators as an option. Could you point me to a source for
> a
> diagram or theory? I can build them myself.
>
> THANKS!
>
> David
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Just my opinion, but after trying a few experiments with chain drive and
uniboby, rubber mounts worked the best, The unibody acts as a speaker cone.
After looking at pictures, The way alot of belt driven diesel reffer units are
mounted to a cradle then the 4 corners have "motor mounts" could work, The
motor , sprocket, inner cv on a cradle, With some flex water proofing would be
harder, But noise reduced about 40% to 50% best guess.. Could be wrong.
Hap
_____________________________________________________________
Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> i wont be drag racing it but i want it to have very good acceleration
> maybe
> a top speed of about 75mp/h
Then the 1/0 will be plenty good enough. I guarantee that the cables
won't be your limmiting factor in acceleration. More likely your
batteries or possibly your controller.
>
>
>>From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: [email protected]
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: Re: wiring size back to the question...
>>Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 23:53:51 -0700 (MST)
>>
>>Ok, as I recall you were discussing a 72V bike? Are you drag racing it?
>>
>>If not, then cruising speed will probably need about 75 amps give or
>> take.
>>
>>Assume your bike has 20 feet of cable (probably less but what the heck).
>>
>>The resistance for 20 feet of:
>>1/0 is approx 0.002 ohms
>>00 is approx 0.0015
>>0000 is approx 0.001
>>
>>So 4/0 will have about 1/2 the voltage drop of 1/0
>>At 75 amps
>>1/0 will drop ~0.14 volts
>>2/0 will drop ~0.116 volts
>>4/0 will drop ~0.074 volts
>>
>>The difference in efficiency at 75 amps will be ~0.1% between 1/0 and 4/0
>>
>>At 200 amps the difference in efficiency is ~0.26%
>>
>>Note: those are not typos, I did NOT mean to say 26%, we are talking
>> about
>>a fraction of 1%.
>>
>>So yes, it makes a tiny difference in efficiency. You'd have to decide
>>whether or not that is worth the extra weight, expense, and hassle.
>>
>>P.S. I asked if you were planning on drag racing because at 1,000 amps it
>>gets up over 1%. Probably not worth the extra weight but you'd have to
>>run the calculations.
>>
>> > So anyway back to the question... If if i had the option of choosing
>> 1/0
>> > or
>> > 2/0 in a motorcycle would the 2/0 make my motorcycle more efficent
>>because
>> > of less resistance? Or would the weight and cost savings (which are
>> > minimal)
>> > of 1/0 be worth it? what if i put huge 4/0 in it would that make it
>> even
>> > more efficent?
>>
>>
>>--
>>If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
>>junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever
>> I
>>wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
>>legalistic signature is void.
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live
> Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Take a look at their electrathon body, they've made on for years that is
basically this body without the front fenders. Or you can just buy the
blown bubble windshield.
> I like the look of it, but I wish I could get that body modified for
> 2 wheel for my under 30 mph pedelly electric.... it rains here way
> too often!
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack,
Regarding the noisy chain drive / slipping belt drive, have you looked
at the drive belt that Harley Davidson and Buell motorcycles use? The
final drive belt to the rear wheel is strong, has large teeth that when
sufficiently tight will not slip, is available in a few different
lengths and widths, and can be picked up on E-bay along with rear
pulleys. Be careful not to get this confused with the primary drive
belt between the motor and transmission as the teeth size, width and
length are much different. I think this belt is used for about 100hp
before moving to chain drive for higher horsepower gas motors. I am
building an electric motorcycle using a Harley belt and pulley from
E-bay, and a smaller pulley for the motor with a QD style bushing from
the local bearing house. The smaller pulley was hard to find surplus at
a good price, and they are costly new. The pulley from a Harley
transmission is hard to mate to a motor shaft so I went the other route.
I hope to get my page posted soon to the EV album to have something to
show.
Alan Brinkman
>>Behalf Of Jack Murray
>>Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 8:38 PM
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: Speaking of Hybrids
>>
>>I think a good way to do a plug-in hybrid is to take a FWD car, and
>
> add
>
>>an electric motor to drive the rear wheels.
>>Then you can use the electric motor around town, and use the gas motor
>
>
>>on the freeway.
>>
>>I've been building just such a car, I've converted one rear wheel into
>
> a
>
>>driven wheel powered by an electric motor.
>>However, I'm having trouble and could use some suggestions. I
>>originally used a 1" wide belt drive to power the wheel, but the belt
>>would
>>slip when enough torque was applied to move the car.
>>So I've changed it to use a chain drive. The problem now is the chain
>
>
>>makes a huge amount of noise! more noise than ICE does.
>>Has anyone else done a chain or belt drive setup? Are there chain
>>drives that are not so noisy? Or belts that can handle a lot of
>
> torque.
>
>>A 3" wide belt?
>>I'm considering trying the snowmobile CVT setup, but its a little
>>expensive for this project.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eddy, could be interesting part (300A one):
http://pewa.panasonic.com/pcsd/product/pwr/pdf/mech_eng_ev.pdf
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim,
Have you considered the 12 volt 1.5 amp trickle chargers that shut off
automatically? I am thinking about the Schumacher SE-1-12S, and there
are other makes of basically the same thing. I have used one for years
attached to a 12 volt battery to power an on demand water pump for
drinking water. It charges the battery until charged, then shuts off,
with two leds that tell you the status. One 12 volt charger per
battery, 3 in your case, and you are done. You do not have to worry
about the batteries getting an equal charge as each charger takes care
of one battery. I have one in the garage, and one at my father-in-laws
house that I would like to borrow back. He had battery troubles, liked
the charger, and now.......
Alan Brinkman
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tim Gamber
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 7:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: soneil chargers
i recently saw a 36 volt 4.5 amp charger on the internet and it said
that
you could leave it hooked up indefinetly and it would not overcharge
your
batteries. Would this also be true for AGMs because thats what i was
thinking of usng it for. Do i still need regulators, or could i do
without?
_________________________________________________________________
Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows
Live
Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim,
The CVT will eat up a little efficiency and power. The beauty of most
electric vehicles is that the motor makes a lot of power over a great
range of rpm's, and you can get by will little in the way of a
transmission. However, you may be looking for extra speed or power.
Recently I saw information about a motorcycle that was planned with a
CVT transmission, but I cannot remember the name. Sorry,
Alan Brinkman
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tim Gamber
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 8:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: electric motor with a CVT
If i was to make a electric motorcycle with a CVT what would i want it
to
do. Would i want it to let the motor get to full speed and then change
the
gear ratio or somewhere in between? Can you even adjust a cvt to shit at
different rpms? Are most of them mechanical or computerized? can you
program
or adjust them?
_________________________________________________________________
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=43.658648~-79.383962&style=r&l
vl=15&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=3702663&cid=7ABE80D1746919B4!1329
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Tim
I have been hitting the delete a bit quick these days and missed your
question.
Most of the EV motorcycles will benefit from a transmission. A CVT would be
one choice, a two speed jackshaft, a stand alone transmission like a Baker, etc.
The problem will be finding something cheap enough, small enough, light
enough and simple enough to fit the application.
CVT are well proven in the snowmobile and automatic ATV marketplace. They
are a simple device by design but are not that easy to tune. I suggest you
google CVT and read up on them or buy a book by Olav Aaen's called the Clutch
Tuning Handbook. It should be available at most high performance snowmobile
shops.
The CVT on my EZESport motorcycle gives me an overall gearing of 9:1 at low
gear and 3:1 at high gear. End result is better acceleration and a higher top
end speed.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/716
You need to adjust the clutch to engage at near 0 rpm as you don't need the
motor to idle like an ICE. Your shift rpm should be well below your maximum
rpm to keep power available. I have mine at around 2/3 max rpm but it depends
on your motor current. If you let it drop off due to back EMF, you will not
have much torque.
You need to size the CVT to the application. Little one like those on a
scooter will not work on a full size motocycle. The real big ones are made to
handle 200hp engines on high performance snowmobiles.
EZESport
lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
That's not for me to give. But if you saw his post on
the stocks earlier here......
--- Tim Gamber < wrote:
> Can you give me his email address?
>
>
> >From: lyle sloan > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: Re: electric motor with a CVT
> >Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 05:00:26 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >Tim,
> >
> >Please ask Ray Wong. He has done it to his bike
> and
> >he can help guide you with the benifits and how he
> did
> >it. This will help in your decision and prevent
> you
> >from burning through several like he did trying to
> >find that sweet spot.
> >
> >
> >--- Tim Gamber <> wrote:
> >
> > > If i was to make a electric motorcycle with a
> CVT
> > > what would i want it to
> > > do. Would i want it to let the motor get to full
> > > speed and then change the
> > > gear ratio or somewhere in between? Can you even
> > > adjust a cvt to shit at
> > > different rpms? Are most of them mechanical or
> > > computerized? can you program
> > > or adjust them?
> > >
> > >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
> > >
>
>http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=43.658648~-79.383962&style=r&lvl=15&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=3702663&cid=7ABE80D1746919B4!1329
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>____________________________________________________________________________________
> >Looking for earth-friendly autos?
> >Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos'
> Green Center.
> >http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Free Alerts : Be smart - let your information find
> you !
> http://alerts.live.com/Alerts/Default.aspx
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
---------------------------------
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, it's Lee Hart's design, so he should get the honors, but as I understand
it it works like this: The zeners are wired in series with the light bulb, in
the same direction, for a total of 13 volts. Up to 13 volts, nothing happens.
Once the batteries' voltage rises above 13 volts the zeners start to let some
current through. As the batteries voltage rises, more current flows through
the zener-lamp circuit, around the battery. It maxes out at around 15 volts.
At that point the light bulb limits the current to 6 watts, or 1/2 amp. That
current is released as heat in the bulb and the 2 zeners - which is why they
need to be in heat sinks, which is the function of the heavy lugs they're
mounted in.
The theory is that the battery in the pack with the highest state of charge
will reach 13 V first, and some of the current in the charging circuit will go
around it through the Z-Reg circuit. As others catch up a part of their
current gets shunted aside as well. The lowest battery continues to get full
current all along, hopefully equalizing its state of charge with the stronger
ones.
Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This looks like a very doable and fun
project. Would it be too much to ask if someone could explain the logic of
this setup to me? 6.2 V in one direction and 6.8 in the other? I'm not an
electrical guy but can usually understand once it's explained to me.
The other query is how much power is "lost" using this type of setup? Is it 3
watts/battery?
many thanks - this is a great list
----- Original Message ----
From: Mike Willmon
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2007 10:27:35 AM
Subject: FW: Zener Regs?
Here's a pictorial step by step http://controller.junkymagi.com/Zener_Regs.pdf
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 4:36 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Zener Regs?
>
>
> Cor van de Water,
>
> Thank you for your valuable input to my regulator question. You mentioned
> home-brew Zener Regulators as an option. Could you point me to a source for
> a
> diagram or theory? I can build them myself.
>
> THANKS!
>
> David
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
---------------------------------
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> I prefer Eduardos' switch - brake fluid disolves a lot of things that other
> things won't attack - and a lot of those things are materials that pressure
> switches for industrial applications are made from.
>
I havent thought of brake fluid! Xantias dont use brake fluid, they use
LHM (green mineral hydraulic fluid) so maybe it was not a good idea after all
:(
--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | I'm white and nerdy
http://e.nn.cl | Weird Al
http://ev.nn.cl |
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> This looks like a very doable and fun project. Would it be too much to ask
> if someone could explain the logic of this setup to me?
I invented this thing a few years ago, and have described it many times on the
EV list. A search of the archives should turn up many references to it.
For a 12v battery, I generally use a 1N5342B 6.8v 5w zener, a 1N5341B 6.2v 5w
zener, and a PR2 flashlight lamp, all in series. The zeners are each in a big
ring terminal, which bolts to the battery terminals and acts as a heat sink. I
also put a 10 ohm resistor across the lamp so it will still work at reduced
capacity even if the lamp burns out.
Here's how they work. 6.8v+6.2v = 13v. A "full" battery is under 13v when not
being charged, so the regulator draws a negligible current unless the battery
is being charged and is higher than this.
The higher the voltage, the greater the bypsss current. The PR2 draws about
0.5a at 2.5v; so the regulator bypasses 0.5a at 6.8v+6.2v+2.5v = 15.5v. So,
during charging, the highest voltage batteries have the most bypass current,
and so accumulate fewer amphours. This "leans on" the batteries to push them
toward balance. This type of regulator can handle a couple amphours of
imbalance per charge cycle.
>The other query is how much power is "lost" using this type of setup?
The peak bypass current is about 0.5 amps (limited by the lamp). For different
bypass currents, change to a different lamp. But watch out for the zener power
ratings as well; 6.8v x 0.5a = 3.4 watts; you can't go much higher in a 5w
zener.
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> i recently saw a 36 volt 4.5 amp charger on the internet and it said
> that you could leave it hooked up indefinetly and it would not
> overcharge your batteries. Would this also be true for AGMs because
> thats what i was thinking of usng it for. Do i still need
regulators, > or could i do without?
Disclosure: I am a distributor for Soneil chargers.
You can leave the Soneil chargers hooked up indefinitely. You can do
without regulators, assuming the batteries are initially fairly well
balanced. The charger is intelligent, and will not overcharge the
batteries. The finishing voltage is low enough that it will not damage
even AGM batteries. They are designed specifically for this application.
I have used the 3610SRF charger on my Elec-Trak E12 tractor for several
years with good results. I have used a range of other Soneil chargers
as well, all with good results, including as modular chargers on my
Porsche 914 conversion (12 Exide Orbitals). I am also using a 3602S to
charge the pack on my electric bike, which are sealed lead-acid batteries.
Disclosure: I am a distributor for Soneil chargers.
http://www.econogics.com/Soneil/sonindex.htm
--
Darryl McMahon
It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will?
The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (now in print and eBook)
http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Alan, I have looked at the polychain GT belts and pulleys, they are
better suited to the higher torque than the smaller toothed belt I
tried. But they are relatively expensive parts, about $500 for the
setup. The chain setup was about $100. But once I'm satisfied with
everything else working, I may spend the money to try the better belts.
Having just looked at the motorcycle stuff, it would be cool to use a
complete motorcycle transmission with the belt drive. That way it can be
put into neutral so the electric motor doesn't spin while on the
freeway. The difficulty with the fixed pulley is that the current 5:1
gearing already requires a big diameter on the wheel side, is not really
quite enough low gear yet too much for top speed, I think at 70mph, the
wheel is turning about 1500rpm, that is 7500 rpm at the motor, really
pushing it for an 8" ADC. But again, a motorcycle trans is not cheap.
Realize that I'm not doing just a one-off, my goal is to do many of
these conversions so I prefer to be able to use new parts when that time
comes, I wouldn't want to design-in having to source cheap used parts.
Jack
Alan Brinkman wrote:
Jack,
Regarding the noisy chain drive / slipping belt drive, have you looked
at the drive belt that Harley Davidson and Buell motorcycles use? The
final drive belt to the rear wheel is strong, has large teeth that when
sufficiently tight will not slip, is available in a few different
lengths and widths, and can be picked up on E-bay along with rear
pulleys. Be careful not to get this confused with the primary drive
belt between the motor and transmission as the teeth size, width and
length are much different. I think this belt is used for about 100hp
before moving to chain drive for higher horsepower gas motors. I am
building an electric motorcycle using a Harley belt and pulley from
E-bay, and a smaller pulley for the motor with a QD style bushing from
the local bearing house. The smaller pulley was hard to find surplus at
a good price, and they are costly new. The pulley from a Harley
transmission is hard to mate to a motor shaft so I went the other route.
I hope to get my page posted soon to the EV album to have something to
show.
Alan Brinkman
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 8:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Speaking of Hybrids
I think a good way to do a plug-in hybrid is to take a FWD car, and
add
an electric motor to drive the rear wheels.
Then you can use the electric motor around town, and use the gas motor
on the freeway.
I've been building just such a car, I've converted one rear wheel into
a
driven wheel powered by an electric motor.
However, I'm having trouble and could use some suggestions. I
originally used a 1" wide belt drive to power the wheel, but the belt
would
slip when enough torque was applied to move the car.
So I've changed it to use a chain drive. The problem now is the chain
makes a huge amount of noise! more noise than ICE does.
Has anyone else done a chain or belt drive setup? Are there chain
drives that are not so noisy? Or belts that can handle a lot of
torque.
A 3" wide belt?
I'm considering trying the snowmobile CVT setup, but its a little
expensive for this project.
Thanks,
Jack
--- End Message ---
