EV Digest 6405
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Newbie: looking for information to get started on a Dodge Neon
ICE--->EV conversion - LONG
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Non-Article 625 Charge Port on Tesla?
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: FW: Personal Electric Transport
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Newbie: looking for information to get started on a Dodge Neon
ICE--->EV conversion - LONG
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Newbie: looking for information to get started on a Dodge Neon
ICE--->EV conversion - LONG
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Newbie: looking for information to get started on a Dodge Neon
ICE--->EV conversion - LONG
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Newbie: looking for information to get started on a Dodge Neon
ICE--->EV conversion - LONG
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Newbie: looking for information to get started on a Dodge Neon
ICE--->EV conversion - LONG
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Newbie: looking for information to get started on a Dodge Neon
ICE--->EV conversion - LONG
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Newbie: looking for information to get started on a Dodge Neon
ICE--->EV conversion - LONG
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Newbie: looking for information to get started on a Dodge Neon
ICE--->EV conversion - LONG
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Personal Electric Transport
by "bortel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Newbie: looking for information to get started on a Dodge Neon
ICE--->EV conversion - LONG
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Newbie: looking for information to get started on a Dodge Neon
ICE--->EV conversion - LONG
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: A123 pictures
by Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Newbie: looking for information to get started on a Dodge Neon
ICE--->EV conversion - LONG
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Personal Electric Transport
by "David O'Neel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Newbie: looking for information to get started on a Dodge Neon
ICE--->EV conversion - LONG
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Personal Electric Transport
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: A123 pictures
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Electric Cars are for Girls
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) What Women Want
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by "Ted C." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) RE: Newbie: looking for information to get started on a Dodge Neon
ICE--->EV conversion - LONG
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Michael,
If you haven't yet done so, get in touch with Randy at Canadian Electric
Vehicles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; he has offered kits for the Geo Metro and
S10 for years and recently added the Dodge Neon to his lineup.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't mean to imply it was a bad thing, it is an excellent
drivetrain. The only problem with it is that it is difficult to mass
produce, making it expensive. That seems to be the reason why Tesla is
trying to move away from it.
On 2/11/07, Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Sun, Feb 11, 2007 at 10:42:22AM -0800, Peter Gabrielsson wrote:
> Despite what Tesla themselves say, the tesla drive train is the AC
> Propulsion drivetrain, inverter, motor, reductive charger and all.
This is not really a bad thing. The AC Propulsion drivetrain seems to be
very good.
The mechanical portion of the drive train looks to be a Tesla original, along
with the battery management system.
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> They are just up the road. I have seen their electrathon kits, so I'm
> guessing this $3K car will be similar... a rolling frame for that price.
> Also, if it's like his other designs, it won't qualify as a e-bike,
w/o a
> lot of changes to the design.
>
This would never be called an ebike, but it fits the motorcycle class,
and if you kept the top speed to 30mph, it could fit the moped class
here in California. I just can't tell where you would safely stow 2
bags of groceries! Also, if you are using it in a lot of stop-and-go,
a PM motor and 4-quad controller might make it more energy efficient
(but cost more).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Who is going to give the bad news that 60 miles at 70mph isn't going to
be within the budget of a high-school project.
Roger Stockton wrote:
Michael,
If you haven't yet done so, get in touch with Randy at Canadian Electric
Vehicles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; he has offered kits for the Geo Metro and
S10 for years and recently added the Dodge Neon to his lineup.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Michael, and welcome to the list.
I'm a bit lost, as your team is "on a budget", yet
you're looking for Ni-MH or Li batteries. These
require batt. mgt. systems that are not currently on
the market, and the batteries themselves are
exhorbitant.
High school math class. I can see your physics team,
but math...? After series v. parallel batteries, Ah
vs. kWh, peukert's constant (which isn't an issue in
Li or NiMH anyway)... Weight distribution F/R,
efficiency, measurements for rack fabrication, etc.
ICE v. EV cost of ownership/spreadsheeting-- it just
seems like they'd spend more of their time turning
wrenches than working on math content, and these are
middle-school concepts. Perhaps your district and
principal are on board with this for the more terminal
math students to get a practical exposure.
Good luck with your project,
--- Michael L Werth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
---------------------------------
P, UL, OL, DL, DIR, MENU, PRE { margin: 0
auto;}February 11, 2007
Dear EV Listserv:
I'm interested in doing an ICE--->EV conversion with
my high school math students. EVParts.com suggests
that I do a Dodge Neon conversion, and I've been
trying to get details from them about a KIT that has
been developed? I can acquire the car dirt cheap, so
that seems like a good donor option, since we're "on a
budget". Can you tell me what model batteries I
should get? Can I use Ni-MH or Li-ion batteries in
place of lead-acid in the kit?
Questions I'm Hoping to Get Answers To:
GOAL: Dodge Neon ICE-->EV conversion. Four door
family car, child seats and all, with a 60 mile range
traveling at a steady 60-70 mph. Typical outdoor
temperatures in Rhode Island are 25 degrees F in
winter up to 90 degrees F in summer.
I heard that there is a KIT. Has someone actually
fully built one of these Neon conversions who could
talk to me about the details and caveats, perhaps for
a consulting fee? What are the requirements to use
this kit?
1) Model Years Dodge Neon 1995-2005?
2) Body Type Dodge Neon, 4 door or coupe?
3) Manual?
4) Which Trojan Batteries, and how many to get a range
of 60 miles at 60-70 mph ? Would any other batteries
work with the kit for more range/lighter weight such
as Ni-MH or Li-ion?
5) Part number and cost of the kit + lead time for
delivery + estimated shipping cost ?
6) Is there an instruction manual for the Dodge Neon
conversion?
7) Can I talk to anyone who has personally done the
Dodge Neon conversion to ask about caveats to
avoid/tips to make things easier?
After I get this information, I think my steps are:
1) Get the car, drop the motor, drop the exhaust, get
it cleaned up, paint it, fix anything that needs to be
repaired, and install heavier shocks for the extra
battery weight?
2) What are the recommended parts to modify the
suspension to compensate for the extra weight?
2) Order the KIT, get it installed, and weld in
battery boxes.
3) Order the batteries, hook it all up, and charge it
up.
4) Drive it.
Please let me know! Thank you all very much for your
time and consideration.
Sincerely,
Michael
Mr. Michael L. Werth
Mathematics Teacher Leader (Dept. Chair)
Hope Arts High School
RI's Premier Urban Fine & Performing Arts High School
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.provmath.org
office: (401) 456-9161
fax: (401) 456-1747
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well to start with, I think the only way you are going to achieve 60 mile
range at 60-70mph in a Neon is with Lithium batteries, unfortunately
Lion/LiPol batteries are pretty much out of the budget for ANYONE that
makes less than 6 figures (I'm assuming that as a high school student that
includes you)
An oil company owns the patent on NiMH batteries and specifically
prohibits the construction of EV size batteries. So they aren't really
available, and if they were they would be out of your budget.
EV size NiCad batteries are available, but they cost about $15,000-$20,000
for a pack plus at least another $2,000 (probably more) for an acceptable
charger. However, I'm not sure if you can cram enough into a Neon to get
60 miles range at 60-70 mph.
I think you need to reevaluate your goals. Start by figuring out how many
Golf Cart batteries (trojan T-105/T-125/T-145 or equivelent) you can fit
in the vehicle and then calculate how far that will get you.
You might also try to see how many Optima Yellow Top or Excide Oribital
batteries you can fit. These might provide a bit more energy per pound at
the discharge rates you require (i.e. >= 1C discharge). However, they
will cost at least twice as much and require more expensive chargers as
well as individual charge regulators of some kind.
My /guess/ is that a Neon at 65mph will require somewhere around 15-20 kw
to maintain speed on flat, level ground when loaded up with a 1/2 ton or
so of batteries.
> I'm interested in doing an ICE--->EV conversion with my high school math
> students. EVParts.com suggests that I do a Dodge Neon conversion, and
> I've been trying to get details from them about a KIT that has been
> developed? I can acquire the car dirt cheap, so that seems like a good
> donor option, since we're "on a budget". Can you tell me what model
> batteries I should get? Can I use Ni-MH or Li-ion batteries in place of
> lead-acid in the kit? Questions I'm Hoping to Get Answers To:
> GOAL: Dodge Neon ICE-->EV conversion. Four door family car, child seats
> and all, with a 60 mile range traveling at a steady 60-70 mph. Typical
> outdoor temperatures in Rhode Island are 25 degrees F in winter up to 90
> degrees F in summer. I heard that there is a KIT. Has someone actually
> fully built one of these Neon conversions who could talk to me about the
> details and caveats, perhaps for a consulting fee? What are the
> requirements to use this kit? 1) Model Years Dodge Neon 1995-2005?
> 2) Body Type Dodge Neon, 4 door or coupe?
> 3) Manual?
> 4) Which Trojan Batteries, and how many to get a range of 60 miles at
> 60-70 mph ? Would any other batteries work with the kit for more
> range/lighter weight such as Ni-MH or Li-ion?
> 5) Part number and cost of the kit + lead time for delivery + estimated
> shipping cost ?
> 6) Is there an instruction manual for the Dodge Neon conversion?
> 7) Can I talk to anyone who has personally done the Dodge Neon conversion
> to ask about caveats to avoid/tips to make things easier? After I get
> this information, I think my steps are:
> 1) Get the car, drop the motor, drop the exhaust, get it cleaned up,
> paint it, fix anything that needs to be repaired, and install heavier
> shocks for the extra battery weight? 2) What are the recommended parts
> to modify the suspension to compensate for the extra weight?
> 2) Order the KIT, get it installed, and weld in battery boxes. 3) Order
> the batteries, hook it all up, and charge it up.
> 4) Drive it. Please let me know! Thank you all very much for your time
> and consideration. Sincerely, Michael Mr. Michael L. Werth
> Mathematics Teacher Leader (Dept. Chair) Hope Arts High School RI's
> Premier Urban Fine & Performing Arts High School
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.provmath.org office: (401) 456-9161 fax:
> (401) 456-1747
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is this the answer to our power brakes(i.e. no vacuum booster)?
http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Jack Murray
> Who is going to give the bad news that 60 miles at 70mph isn't going
> to be within the budget of a high-school project?
I agree; it's not going to happen with a Dodge Neon and lead-acid batteies. He
may have to rethink his goals, or be prepared to be satisfied with lower
performance.
--
If you aim for the moon and miss, at least you're still far above the rest of
us.
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack Murray wrote:
> Who is going to give the bad news that 60 miles at 70mph
> isn't going to be within the budget of a high-school project.
Looks like Peter stepped up ;^>
I figured that maybe (for a change ;^) we might just direct him to a
source that can solve his first problem/challenge/requirement, which is
a conversion kit for the Neon, rather than shooting the project down.
It may be that the range @ speed goal is just a WAG or pie in the sky
guess without really knowing what is realistic, not a hard and fast
requirement.
And, who are we to say what his budget might be? Some schools are
capable of soliciting rather incredible amounts of funding or donations
for such projects...
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Manual brakes use leverage by increasing pedal travel.
This seems a bit like getting something for nothing,
"slight increase in pedal travel" how slight can it be, otherwise, where
does the increase in force come from?
I think we really do need something to replace using electric vaccuum
pumps for the brake booster, the noise from the pumps is a problem.
if this can do it, great.
Jack
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Is this the answer to our power brakes(i.e. no vacuum booster)?
http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
just may be maybe he can soletic donations from area companies and or power
companies (electric) who can make it happen who knows ? there are a ton of
people out there who will help the kids . good luck and god bless may he make
it happen
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Hart<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: Newbie: looking for information to get started on a Dodge Neon
ICE--->EV conversion - LONG
From: Jack Murray
> Who is going to give the bad news that 60 miles at 70mph isn't going
> to be within the budget of a high-school project?
I agree; it's not going to happen with a Dodge Neon and lead-acid batteies.
He may have to rethink his goals, or be prepared to be satisfied with lower
performance.
--
If you aim for the moon and miss, at least you're still far above the rest of
us.
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
actually roger, I think if his budget were $50,000, then the folks at
evparts probably would take care of him just fine without needing our
input...
So Michael, forgive me for talking like you are not here.
Welcome to the list, I would start with the budget and let us help you
work backwards from there. Maybe you can break some new ground and
build a real showcase car. Or maybe a cool electric go-cart would be
more fun and easier and less expensive, and have the same math problems
to apply as a full-size car.
Jack
Roger Stockton wrote:
Jack Murray wrote:
Who is going to give the bad news that 60 miles at 70mph
isn't going to be within the budget of a high-school project.
Looks like Peter stepped up ;^>
I figured that maybe (for a change ;^) we might just direct him to a
source that can solve his first problem/challenge/requirement, which is
a conversion kit for the Neon, rather than shooting the project down.
It may be that the range @ speed goal is just a WAG or pie in the sky
guess without really knowing what is realistic, not a hard and fast
requirement.
And, who are we to say what his budget might be? Some schools are
capable of soliciting rather incredible amounts of funding or donations
for such projects...
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
with dual outlets ( on the master cyc.) for the brakes 1 front 1 rear which
would you use this on ? or 1 for eack ?
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Murray<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
Manual brakes use leverage by increasing pedal travel.
This seems a bit like getting something for nothing,
"slight increase in pedal travel" how slight can it be, otherwise, where
does the increase in force come from?
I think we really do need something to replace using electric vaccuum
pumps for the brake booster, the noise from the pumps is a problem.
if this can do it, great.
Jack
Ryan Stotts wrote:
> Is this the answer to our power brakes(i.e. no vacuum booster)?
>
>
http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html<http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack Murray wrote:
> actually roger, I think if his budget were $50,000, then the folks at
> evparts probably would take care of him just fine without needing our
> input...
It doesn't matter how much money is in your pocket, the cashier at a
McDonalds is still not going to be able to satisfy your request for a
Whopper. ;^>
If Michael is looking for a Dodge Neon conversion kit, and EVParts
doesn't have one, then they will be able to offer limited help
regardless of his budget.
He asked if there was a kit available, and there is. You and I don't
know how much range he can expect with the kit that is available, and we
don't know what his real goals/needs are. Let him speak with the kit
vendor and determine if he can get close enough to his goals with what
is available. I got the impression that a kit is essential to this (or
any project) moving forward as it doesn't sound as if he is interested
in taking on a fabrication/design exercise.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just a little more info that I got from Mark a while back.
Dan
_____
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 10:16 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re:
Hi Dan,
Our goal is to begin taking orders in February with production in March. We
are exploring options for displaying them at various public venues and
retail locations, so i'm sure there would be an opportunity to see one if
you are in this area. The BugE will be offered as a kit, enabling builders
to become sellers. Components are primarily manufactured here in Oregon.
We plan to expand variations of the BugE with canopy options and accessories
such as a cold weather rear skirt, and custom BugE cover.
mark
BSD
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Feb 11, 2007, at 1:22 PM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
Is this the answer to our power brakes(i.e. no vacuum booster)?
http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html
No, this is more of an answer for those who fail to correctly size
their wheel cylinders to their master cylinder. It could be helpful
when mixing parts in a street rod. It increases pedal travel by driving
a larger piston, then uses a smaller piston to drive the brakes its
connected to. The same effect could be obtained by installing larger
diameter wheel cylinders.
With duel circuit brakes you need to be careful when increase brake
leverage with either a device like this, larger wheel cylinders, or
relocating the pivot point of the brake pedal. You need to make sure
that in the event that either 1/2 of the brakes fail the other 1/2 will
be fully applied before the brake pedal reaches the floor. (otherwise
having duel circuit brakes does nothing for you)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
paul I just change the drum brakes out for 4 wheel disc with e brake so I
would have better stopping power . soo what you seem to hint at is that is
probably the best I can do ???????
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul G.<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
On Feb 11, 2007, at 1:22 PM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
> Is this the answer to our power brakes(i.e. no vacuum booster)?
>
>
http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html<http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html>
No, this is more of an answer for those who fail to correctly size
their wheel cylinders to their master cylinder. It could be helpful
when mixing parts in a street rod. It increases pedal travel by driving
a larger piston, then uses a smaller piston to drive the brakes its
connected to. The same effect could be obtained by installing larger
diameter wheel cylinders.
With duel circuit brakes you need to be careful when increase brake
leverage with either a device like this, larger wheel cylinders, or
relocating the pivot point of the brake pedal. You need to make sure
that in the event that either 1/2 of the brakes fail the other 1/2 will
be fully applied before the brake pedal reaches the floor. (otherwise
having duel circuit brakes does nothing for you)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Jack Murray wrote:
>
>> Who is going to give the bad news that 60 miles at 70mph
>> isn't going to be within the budget of a high-school project.
>
> Looks like Peter stepped up ;^>
>
> I figured that maybe (for a change ;^) we might just direct him to a
> source that can solve his first problem/challenge/requirement, which is
> a conversion kit for the Neon, rather than shooting the project down.
Sounds good, and that would be...?
>
> It may be that the range @ speed goal is just a WAG or pie in the sky
> guess without really knowing what is realistic, not a hard and fast
> requirement.
>
> And, who are we to say what his budget might be?
Well /he/ said he had a limited budget. Now granted /limited/ is kind of
vague, but it's probably a fair guess that /limited/ does not include
battery packs that cost more than a new sports car.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> If Michael is looking for a Dodge Neon conversion kit, and EVParts
> doesn't have one, then they will be able to offer limited help
> regardless of his budget.
>
> He asked if there was a kit available, and there is.
Did I miss a post, or are you planning on keeping the source of this kit a
secret?
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Were you experiencing brake fade due to long down hills or frequent stops
from high speed?
THe big advantage of disc brakes is that they can shed heat faster and
avoid fading (to some extent).
I could be wrong, but I think with unassisted brakes, drums actually have
slightly better stopping ability, at least until the heat builds up.
> paul I just change the drum brakes out for 4 wheel disc with e brake so
> I would have better stopping power . soo what you seem to hint at is that
> is probably the best I can do ???????
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul G.<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 5:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
>
>
> On Feb 11, 2007, at 1:22 PM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
>
> > Is this the answer to our power brakes(i.e. no vacuum booster)?
> >
> >
> http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html<http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html>
>
> No, this is more of an answer for those who fail to correctly size
> their wheel cylinders to their master cylinder. It could be helpful
> when mixing parts in a street rod. It increases pedal travel by driving
> a larger piston, then uses a smaller piston to drive the brakes its
> connected to. The same effect could be obtained by installing larger
> diameter wheel cylinders.
>
> With duel circuit brakes you need to be careful when increase brake
> leverage with either a device like this, larger wheel cylinders, or
> relocating the pivot point of the brake pedal. You need to make sure
> that in the event that either 1/2 of the brakes fail the other 1/2 will
> be fully applied before the brake pedal reaches the floor. (otherwise
> having duel circuit brakes does nothing for you)
>
> Paul "neon" G.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the offer of help. I am in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, basically too
far away from any help. But that has never stopped me before.
I have a few ideas to make a jig that might work on the A123 cells.
EZESport
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ray or Bill,
GoWheel.com and crew will help any way we can too.
We're in Orange County, California
Gary, Ryan, Jay, Randy, Ed, Robert, Don, Lou, & crew
-------------------------------
--- Bill Dube wrote:
> Ray,
> You didn't say were you were located. If
> you are near
> Denver, contact me and maybe we can help you get
> these welded together.
> Bill Dube'
>
> At 12:41 PM 2/10/2007, you wrote:
> Hi Bill, I hope you can help or anyone else on
> the list.
> I finally got hold of enough A123 cells to put
> together a small
> > pack. (many Dewalt packs) In the past you
> mentioned it took a
> > very expensive spot welder to assemble the
> Killacycle pack.
> What kind of problems would be caused by a
> standard spot welder
> with small tips. Do you have a source for the
> tabs that protect
> the vent hole. Is there an alternative you might
> suggest, something cheaper.
> I don't want to solder onto the batteries
> althought the RC guys say it works just fine.
> Pack is a 4x6x10. I want to build two of these
> 1.8kwh packs.
> The EZESport bike is getting A123 batteries and
> a Zilla 1K
> upgrade. The goal is to be able to keep up around
> town with other
> 600cc ICE sports bike with a 20 to 30 mile range.
> EZESport
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
Opps, my mistake (damn memory) he just said "budget" not "limited budget".
Please substitue "budget" in where I said limited".
>
>> Jack Murray wrote:
>>
>>> Who is going to give the bad news that 60 miles at 70mph
>>> isn't going to be within the budget of a high-school project.
>>
>> Looks like Peter stepped up ;^>
>>
>> I figured that maybe (for a change ;^) we might just direct him to a
>> source that can solve his first problem/challenge/requirement, which is
>> a conversion kit for the Neon, rather than shooting the project down.
>
> Sounds good, and that would be...?
>
>>
>> It may be that the range @ speed goal is just a WAG or pie in the sky
>> guess without really knowing what is realistic, not a hard and fast
>> requirement.
>>
>> And, who are we to say what his budget might be?
>
> Well /he/ said he had a limited budget. Now granted /limited/ is kind of
> vague, but it's probably a fair guess that /limited/ does not include
> battery packs that cost more than a new sports car.
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
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If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
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legalistic signature is void.
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--- Begin Message ---
Wow, I'm having a really hard time NOT making immediate plans to put in an
order for one! $3-4000 is really not bad at all especially for ground-up
design. I always liked the Gizmo as well. I could see adding a rear end to
it though, if for nothing else, to boost the aerodynamics a little. I guess
I will have to just go and have a look
I wonder what the implications would be for hopping it up a bit, although
for most, 50mph top speed is actually plenty. Any more than that, and you
are competing with sparrows!
Excellent..
On 2/8/07, jmygann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
http://blueskydsn.com/BugE_Concept.html
ADvanced DC 4001 series wound motor.
Chain drive; 6/1 ratio.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal writes:
> > He asked if there was a kit available, and there is.
>
> Did I miss a post, or are you planning on keeping the source
> of this kit a secret?
I think you missed (or didn't get sent) this:
Roger Stockton writes:
> If you haven't yet done so, get in touch with Randy at Canadian Electric
> Vehicles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; he has offered kits for the Geo Metro and
> S10 for years and recently added the Dodge Neon to his lineup.
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd really like to know how much noise the chain drive makes.
Jack
David O'Neel wrote:
Wow, I'm having a really hard time NOT making immediate plans to put in an
order for one! $3-4000 is really not bad at all especially for ground-up
design. I always liked the Gizmo as well. I could see adding a rear end to
it though, if for nothing else, to boost the aerodynamics a little. I guess
I will have to just go and have a look
I wonder what the implications would be for hopping it up a bit, although
for most, 50mph top speed is actually plenty. Any more than that, and you
are competing with sparrows!
Excellent..
On 2/8/07, jmygann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
http://blueskydsn.com/BugE_Concept.html
ADvanced DC 4001 series wound motor.
Chain drive; 6/1 ratio.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not sure what you mean when you say "4X6X10".
You may be able to "unfold" the DeWalt packs to give you nice 10 cell
strings. At that point, you would just need to attach parallel tabs
between them to parallel up all the cells. These parallel wire/tabs
need not be very stout and can be soldered onto the center of the
existing tabs.
Since you don't have a proper welder, you should do all you can to
use the existing tabs on the cells.
Bill Dube'
At 05:49 PM 2/11/2007, you wrote:
Thanks for the offer of help. I am in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada,
basically too far away from any help. But that has never stopped me before.
I have a few ideas to make a jig that might work on the A123 cells.
EZESport
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ray or Bill,
GoWheel.com and crew will help any way we can too.
We're in Orange County, California
Gary, Ryan, Jay, Randy, Ed, Robert, Don, Lou, & crew
-------------------------------
--- Bill Dube wrote:
> Ray,
> You didn't say were you were located. If
> you are near
> Denver, contact me and maybe we can help you get
> these welded together.
> Bill Dube'
>
> At 12:41 PM 2/10/2007, you wrote:
> Hi Bill, I hope you can help or anyone else on
> the list.
> I finally got hold of enough A123 cells to put
> together a small
> > pack. (many Dewalt packs) In the past you
> mentioned it took a
> > very expensive spot welder to assemble the
> Killacycle pack.
> What kind of problems would be caused by a
> standard spot welder
> with small tips. Do you have a source for the
> tabs that protect
> the vent hole. Is there an alternative you might
> suggest, something cheaper.
> I don't want to solder onto the batteries
> althought the RC guys say it works just fine.
> Pack is a 4x6x10. I want to build two of these
> 1.8kwh packs.
> The EZESport bike is getting A123 batteries and
> a Zilla 1K
> upgrade. The goal is to be able to keep up around
> town with other
> 600cc ICE sports bike with a 20 to 30 mile range.
> EZESport
____________________________________________________________________________________
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---------------------------------
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roy LeMeur just turned me on to a new web site he found. Check it out. It
was put up by a young woman in Bremerton, Washington. Drop her a line and
tell her to keep up the good work.
http://www.electric-cars-are-for-girls.com/
Roderick Wilde
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Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.35/680 - Release Date: 2/10/2007
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--- Begin Message ---
Please read this article from Lynne's friend at My Green Wheels on the other
side of the pond. It is a very interesting take on things.
http://www.mygreenwheels.com/what-women-want/
Roderick Wilde
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--- Begin Message ---
I found this posting a while back when I was having brake problem on my 914
Porsche. It changed the way I thought about my braking problem. It helped me
get my mind around the technical issues that come with brake systems and how
they work. Keep in mind that 914 brake systems are unassisted.
http://tinyurl.com/y3wasm
Ted
Olympia, WA
N47 02.743 W122 53.772
"THE Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long
before the world runs out of oil."
Quotation is from Sheikh Zaki Yamani, a Saudi Arabian who served as his
country's oil minister three decades ago.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
Were you experiencing brake fade due to long down hills or frequent stops
from high speed?
THe big advantage of disc brakes is that they can shed heat faster and
avoid fading (to some extent).
I could be wrong, but I think with unassisted brakes, drums actually have
slightly better stopping ability, at least until the heat builds up.
paul I just change the drum brakes out for 4 wheel disc with e brake so
I would have better stopping power . soo what you seem to hint at is
that
is probably the best I can do ???????
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul G.<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
On Feb 11, 2007, at 1:22 PM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
> Is this the answer to our power brakes(i.e. no vacuum booster)?
>
>
http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html<http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html>
No, this is more of an answer for those who fail to correctly size
their wheel cylinders to their master cylinder. It could be helpful
when mixing parts in a street rod. It increases pedal travel by driving
a larger piston, then uses a smaller piston to drive the brakes its
connected to. The same effect could be obtained by installing larger
diameter wheel cylinders.
With duel circuit brakes you need to be careful when increase brake
leverage with either a device like this, larger wheel cylinders, or
relocating the pivot point of the brake pedal. You need to make sure
that in the event that either 1/2 of the brakes fail the other 1/2 will
be fully applied before the brake pedal reaches the floor. (otherwise
having duel circuit brakes does nothing for you)
Paul "neon" G.
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If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
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--- Begin Message ---
Yup, I missed that one.
Must be a new kit it's not on their website yet.
I'd guess it would probably have similar specs to the Toyota Echo they
converted though. The listed specs on that one doesn't come anywhere near
the stated goals though.
>
> Peter VanDerWal writes:
>> > He asked if there was a kit available, and there is.
>>
>> Did I miss a post, or are you planning on keeping the source
>> of this kit a secret?
>
> I think you missed (or didn't get sent) this:
>
> Roger Stockton writes:
>> If you haven't yet done so, get in touch with Randy at Canadian Electric
>> Vehicles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; he has offered kits for the Geo Metro and
>> S10 for years and recently added the Dodge Neon to his lineup.
>
> Cheers,
> Claudio
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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