EV Digest 6406
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Affordable Solar
by Jerry McIntire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) WKtEC movie showing & EV Ride 'n Drive in North Palm Beach Feb. 16
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: What Women Want
by "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
by "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) OT? Re History and Costs of Hydrogen as Fuel Re: H2-Hoax
by "Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: A123 pictures
by "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: WKtEC movie showing in Anchorage Feb. 16
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) What do people know about Zapi components?
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Repairing lead-acid batteries
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Electric Cars are for Girls
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Newbie: looking for information to get started on a Dodge Neon
ICE--->EV conversion - LONG
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: What do people know about Zapi components?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: A123 pictures
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: A123 pictures
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Newbie: looking for information to get started on a Dodge Neon
ICE--->EV conversion - LONG
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Hi all
by "sushrut patgaonkar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Affordable Solar
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Middle aged men
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Looking for a 12 V / 5 Amp minimum isolated charger for AGM batts
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Speaking of Hybrids
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: A123 pictures
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) back in motion
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Re: Soneil Chargers
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Newbie: looking for information to get started on a Dodge Neon
ICE--->EV conversion - LONG
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Lead acid golf cart batteries, GC2 size
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Looking for a 12 V / 5 Amp minimum isolated charger for AGM batts
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan,
My wife works in this field. Everyone in her office has the same
question, "How can they possibly make any money doing this?"
They are counting on a new lower-cost silicon source AND a new
technology that has been announced but not put into production which
would increase the output from the less expensive, lower grade
silicon they propose using. They don't have systems ready to go,
they are fishing for money, and I wouldn't put any money in it
because the likelihood of you seeing a working solar system in return
is very low.
They may be counting on government tax credits to turn a loss leader
into profits, but those incentives are awfully fickle.
Jerry
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There will be a free showing of the movie "Who Killed the Electric Car?"
followed by a discussion forum and EV Ride 'n Drive opportunity this coming
Friday, February 16 in North Palm Beach, Florida at:
Unitarian Church of North Palm Beach
635 Prosperity Farms Road
North Palm Beach, FL 33408
Directions: From I-95 take Northlake Blvd exit 77. Go east 1.5 miles.
Turn left on Prosperity Farms Rd. Go north 0.5 mile. The Unitarian
Church is on the left.
The movie will start at 7pm. All are welcome.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A good article.
"I'm thinking of EV demos in supermarket carparks.." -That´s what I
´ve been thinking also! And why not even give a car for a day for
testing?
Young people are another potential customer group, since they are
unprejudiced. EV´s (3-wheelers?) could be a kind of subculture thing,
a way to distiguish themselves from old folks.
We middle-aged men are a lost cause I´m afraid...
terveisin,
Osmo
Roderick Wilde kirjoitti 12.2.2007 kello 5.37:
Please read this article from Lynne's friend at My Green Wheels on
the other side of the pond. It is a very interesting take on
things. http://www.mygreenwheels.com/what-women-want/
Roderick Wilde
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.35/680 - Release Date:
2/10/2007
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
Following the huge success of the autocross event at the recent Battery
Beach Burnout hosted by the Florida Electric Auto Association in Jupiter,
Florida this past January, several enthusiasts have formed a special
interest group for EV Autocross Enthusiast everywhere.
EVAutoX is a group of Electric Vehicle (EV) enthusiasts, racers, and
professionals dedicated to the promotion of Electric Vehicle Autocross
racing activities around the world.
The mission of EVAutox is to provide a public forum via appropriate media
for the collaboration required to successfully promote and manage safe
practices for EV Autocross. The objectives of EVAutox are to:
- provide framework for the development of necessary documentation and tools
that help promote Autocross in the EV community.
- establish and document related standards and practices for EV Autocross
racing activities
- provide a framework for repeatable event hosting within the EV community
- establish relationships with appropriate organizations who can help
further the promotion of EV Autocross in order to incorporate safety
guidelines and standards in additional Autocross venues outside of the EV
community
Our goal is to have interested people from around the community discuss
issues in the forum and present these ideas in the WIKI as a guideline for
the community at large.
The website (http://www.EVAutoX.com) is open to everyone and features News
about the world of EV Autocross, a User Forum to discuss topics related to
EV Autocross and Collaboration Tools (Wiki) for the development of
documentation for public use in coordinating EV AutoXevents.
The EVAutoX group and website are co-sponsored by Suncoast Electric Vehicle
Outfitters (www.suncoast.net) and Harvey Coachworks and EV
(www.hevimotors.com)
Thanks,
Shawn Waggoner,
Suncoast EV Outfitter/FLEAA
Mike Harvey
Harvey Coachworks and EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fred,
Paul already provided the answer and the reference to the 914
forum has it in even more detail:
- if your brake cylinder diameter increased with the disk brakes,
then you have more stopping power (at the cost of larger
pedal travel)
- if your disk brake cylinders are the same diameter as the drums
then they apply the same force to the brakes. It now depends on
the pad material if you have higher friction or not.
- if the disk brake cylinders have smaller diameter than the drums
then the force on the brakes is now lower, so your stopping
power has likely deteriorated, though you should have a very
firm feeling pedal (little travel). The BPM can help you to
increase force on the brakes at the cost of larger pedal travel.
This BPM work in the same way as a pulley system can help you to
lift 2,000 lbs of weight with only 100 lbs of force, by making the
travel of the chain twenty times larger than the lift provided on
the 2,000 lbs object. The power reduces, the energy stays the same
(force x distance) just like using different gears.
Hope this clarifies,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of FRED JEANETTE MERTENS
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 4:17 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
paul I just change the drum brakes out for 4 wheel disc with e brake so I
would have better stopping power . soo what you seem to hint at is that is
probably the best I can do ???????
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul G.<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
On Feb 11, 2007, at 1:22 PM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
> Is this the answer to our power brakes(i.e. no vacuum booster)?
>
>
http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html<http://ecihotrodbr
akes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html>
No, this is more of an answer for those who fail to correctly size
their wheel cylinders to their master cylinder. It could be helpful
when mixing parts in a street rod. It increases pedal travel by driving
a larger piston, then uses a smaller piston to drive the brakes its
connected to. The same effect could be obtained by installing larger
diameter wheel cylinders.
With duel circuit brakes you need to be careful when increase brake
leverage with either a device like this, larger wheel cylinders, or
relocating the pivot point of the brake pedal. You need to make sure
that in the event that either 1/2 of the brakes fail the other 1/2 will
be fully applied before the brake pedal reaches the floor. (otherwise
having duel circuit brakes does nothing for you)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mr Robert Zubrin wrote an article in The New Atlantis magazine.
It is entitled, The Hydrogen Hoax. He explains the history of the
idea of Hydrogen as a fuel.
Here is the link for the pdf file --
http://www.thenewatlantis.com/archive/15/zubrin.htm
Steve Love -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What does the BMS (or "BMS") unit of the DeWalt-pack do? Over voltage
protection only? Temperature? Is it good enough to offer the minimal
protection (whatever it is) for larger packs? You can just attach the
DeWalt packs and that´s it?
terveisin,
Osmo
Ray Wong kirjoitti 12.2.2007 kello 2.49:
Thanks for the offer of help. I am in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada,
basically too far away from any help. But that has never stopped
me before.
I have a few ideas to make a jig that might work on the A123 cells.
EZESport
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ray or Bill,
GoWheel.com and crew will help any way we can too.
We're in Orange County, California
Gary, Ryan, Jay, Randy, Ed, Robert, Don, Lou, & crew
-------------------------------
--- Bill Dube wrote:
Ray,
You didn't say were you were located. If
you are near
Denver, contact me and maybe we can help you get
these welded together.
Bill Dube'
At 12:41 PM 2/10/2007, you wrote:
Hi Bill, I hope you can help or anyone else on
the list.
I finally got hold of enough A123 cells to put
together a small
pack. (many Dewalt packs) In the past you
mentioned it took a
very expensive spot welder to assemble the
Killacycle pack.
What kind of problems would be caused by a
standard spot welder
with small tips. Do you have a source for the
tabs that protect
the vent hole. Is there an alternative you might
suggest, something cheaper.
I don't want to solder onto the batteries
althought the RC guys say it works just fine.
Pack is a 4x6x10. I want to build two of these
1.8kwh packs.
The EZESport bike is getting A123 batteries and
a Zilla 1K
upgrade. The goal is to be able to keep up around
town with other
600cc ICE sports bike with a 20 to 30 mile range.
EZESport
______________________________________________________________________
______________
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com.
Try it now.
---------------------------------
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There will also be a free showing of said movie on Friday, February 16 at the
Kaladi Brothers on Brayton Drive in Anchorage Alaska
at 7pm (AKST). Discussion to follow as well.
I know not many of you who read this are anywhere near Anchorage, but at least
this lets you know we're active.
Enjoy
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Charles Whalen
> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 1:05 PM
> To: Florida EAA
> Cc: RAV4-EV list; EV Discussion List
> Subject: WKtEC movie showing & EV Ride 'n Drive in North Palm Beach Feb.
> 16
>
>
> There will be a free showing of the movie "Who Killed the Electric Car?"
> followed by a discussion forum and EV Ride 'n Drive opportunity this coming
> Friday, February 16 in North Palm Beach, Florida at:
>
> Unitarian Church of North Palm Beach
> 635 Prosperity Farms Road
> North Palm Beach, FL 33408
>
> Directions: From I-95 take Northlake Blvd exit 77. Go east 1.5 miles.
> Turn left on Prosperity Farms Rd. Go north 0.5 mile. The Unitarian
> Church is on the left.
>
> The movie will start at 7pm. All are welcome.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi guys and gals,
I'm contemplating a new controller for the City El. It's currently
got a Curtis 1204X 4201 (it's actually 24-36v but I'm running it on
42v nominal. I'm looking at going 48v and was looking at the Zapi
chargers for my new planned Thundersky 200AH 48v Lithium Ion pack.
It seems to me that the H1DN or H2B series motor controllers have
some decent specifications (and seem slightly more user-friendly than
the Curtis). The idea that i can log data from the controller
actually appeals a lot and it also appears to offers creep function,
regen and Field weakening which should make the car a lot more
customisable. The idea behind using creep is to make the city el
drive more like a regular automatic.
I'd love to know if anyone here has used them or what they think of
these controllers.
http://www.electrofit-zapi.com/hfsermotor.htm
Nikki.
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
Interesting!
I scanned the EVA website at http://www.evamerica.com/
but could not locate any newsletters.
Maybe asking them to put the old newsletters on the site?
Let me know if you have more info about this subject.
BTW - do you have the orignal articles or do you remember them?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of JS
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 9:37 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Repairing lead-acid batteries
The July-December 1989 EVA Newsletter included
a 4-part series on lead acid batteries written by
Bill Glazier of British Columbia. I believe he was a
manufacturer of PbA batteries at one time.
I have not been able to locate these newsletters on the web.
I have not found a better discussion of PbA battery problems.
John in Sylmar, CA PV EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh goodness above.
It's great to have this as a resource but as a girl I must say that
I'm more than happy to tinker and get my hands grubby building an EV!
(You don't actually get that dirty!)
If this gets more people into EVs though it has to be a good thing.
Just less of the "women need different treatment thing" because most
of the women who ask me about my car are actually very technically
competent or want to learn....
Nikki
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
On Feb 12, 2007, at 3:28 AM, Roderick Wilde wrote:
Roy LeMeur just turned me on to a new web site he found. Check it
out. It was put up by a young woman in Bremerton, Washington. Drop
her a line and tell her to keep up the good work. http://
www.electric-cars-are-for-girls.com/
Roderick Wilde
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.35/680 - Release Date:
2/10/2007
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 11 Feb 2007 at 14:43, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> EV size NiCad batteries are available, but they cost about $15,000-$20,000 for
> a pack plus at least another $2,000 (probably more) for an acceptable charger.
Not quite that bad. Safts are now about $850-900/kWh. A 144v, 100+ah pack
will set you back a little $13k. They are still about the most practical
advanced batteries you can buy - indeed almost the ONLY.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nikki,
I have used the H2 and H3 extensively and like their features.
Customer service is NOT good.
You will have to answer some things on your own as the factory seems
unaware of some of the cooler features that are present and has no
manual describing them.
I have used the regen and closed loop speed control features and they
work well.
I purchased the data link cable and software but have not used it for
log purposes.
The creep function is just a programmed value for minimum speed, it
does what it says.
Almost all of the time I have a the regen setup as a "release" brake in
that it comes in at a programmed level when you take your foot off the
accelerator and stays in till regen current drops to an unapreciable
level. Alternatively, you can fit a microswitch or potentiometer to
your existing brake pedal and use the regen in a more traditional
driving fashion. Contact me off list if you want at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 3:16 AM
Subject: What do people know about Zapi components?
Hi guys and gals,
I'm contemplating a new controller for the City El. It's currently got
a Curtis 1204X 4201 (it's actually 24-36v but I'm running it on 42v
nominal. I'm looking at going 48v and was looking at the Zapi chargers
for my new planned Thundersky 200AH 48v Lithium Ion pack.
It seems to me that the H1DN or H2B series motor controllers have some
decent specifications (and seem slightly more user-friendly than the
Curtis). The idea that i can log data from the controller actually
appeals a lot and it also appears to offers creep function, regen and
Field weakening which should make the car a lot more customisable. The
idea behind using creep is to make the city el drive more like a
regular automatic.
I'd love to know if anyone here has used them or what they think of
these controllers.
http://www.electrofit-zapi.com/hfsermotor.htm
Nikki.
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
=0
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've heard you need to bypass the DeWalt BMS when connecting the packs in
series, or it will fry.
The DeWalt packs already have tabs on the cells. Why not just cut the tabs
in half and solder onto those tabs? Soldering directly onto cells is what is
not recommended, but you can solder onto tabs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 1:48 AM
Subject: Re: A123 pictures
What does the BMS (or "BMS") unit of the DeWalt-pack do? Over voltage
protection only? Temperature? Is it good enough to offer the minimal
protection (whatever it is) for larger packs? You can just attach the
DeWalt packs and that´s it?
terveisin,
Osmo
Ray Wong kirjoitti 12.2.2007 kello 2.49:
Thanks for the offer of help. I am in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada,
basically too far away from any help. But that has never stopped me
before.
I have a few ideas to make a jig that might work on the A123 cells.
EZESport
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ray or Bill,
GoWheel.com and crew will help any way we can too.
We're in Orange County, California
Gary, Ryan, Jay, Randy, Ed, Robert, Don, Lou, & crew
-------------------------------
--- Bill Dube wrote:
Ray,
You didn't say were you were located. If
you are near
Denver, contact me and maybe we can help you get
these welded together.
Bill Dube'
At 12:41 PM 2/10/2007, you wrote:
Hi Bill, I hope you can help or anyone else on
the list.
I finally got hold of enough A123 cells to put
together a small
pack. (many Dewalt packs) In the past you
mentioned it took a
very expensive spot welder to assemble the
Killacycle pack.
What kind of problems would be caused by a
standard spot welder
with small tips. Do you have a source for the
tabs that protect
the vent hole. Is there an alternative you might
suggest, something cheaper.
I don't want to solder onto the batteries
althought the RC guys say it works just fine.
Pack is a 4x6x10. I want to build two of these
1.8kwh packs.
The EZESport bike is getting A123 batteries and
a Zilla 1K
upgrade. The goal is to be able to keep up around
town with other
600cc ICE sports bike with a 20 to 30 mile range.
EZESport
______________________________________________________________________
______________
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it
now.
---------------------------------
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was under the impression that the BMS was located in the charger, or
maybe it's just the brains that are in the charger.
I do know that if you don't use their charger, you dont get the BMS.
THat's why the monster garage team used the packs as-is in their drag
racer and pulled them all out and dropped them in a bunch of dewalt
chargers to recharge.
> What does the BMS (or "BMS") unit of the DeWalt-pack do? Over voltage
> protection only? Temperature? Is it good enough to offer the minimal
> protection (whatever it is) for larger packs? You can just attach the
> DeWalt packs and that´s it?
>
> terveisin,
> Osmo
>
> Ray Wong kirjoitti 12.2.2007 kello 2.49:
>
>> Thanks for the offer of help. I am in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada,
>> basically too far away from any help. But that has never stopped
>> me before.
>>
>> I have a few ideas to make a jig that might work on the A123 cells.
>>
>> EZESport
>>
>> "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Ray or Bill,
>> GoWheel.com and crew will help any way we can too.
>> We're in Orange County, California
>> Gary, Ryan, Jay, Randy, Ed, Robert, Don, Lou, & crew
>> -------------------------------
>> --- Bill Dube wrote:
>>> Ray,
>>> You didn't say were you were located. If
>>> you are near
>>> Denver, contact me and maybe we can help you get
>>> these welded together.
>>> Bill Dube'
>>>
>>> At 12:41 PM 2/10/2007, you wrote:
>>> Hi Bill, I hope you can help or anyone else on
>>> the list.
>>> I finally got hold of enough A123 cells to put
>>> together a small
>>>> pack. (many Dewalt packs) In the past you
>>> mentioned it took a
>>>> very expensive spot welder to assemble the
>>> Killacycle pack.
>>> What kind of problems would be caused by a
>>> standard spot welder
>>> with small tips. Do you have a source for the
>>> tabs that protect
>>> the vent hole. Is there an alternative you might
>>> suggest, something cheaper.
>>> I don't want to solder onto the batteries
>>> althought the RC guys say it works just fine.
>>> Pack is a 4x6x10. I want to build two of these
>>> 1.8kwh packs.
>>> The EZESport bike is getting A123 batteries and
>>> a Zilla 1K
>>> upgrade. The goal is to be able to keep up around
>>> town with other
>>> 600cc ICE sports bike with a 20 to 30 mile range.
>>> EZESport
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> ______________
>> Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com.
>> Try it now.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Bored stiff? Loosen up...
>> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> On 11 Feb 2007 at 14:43, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
>> EV size NiCad batteries are available, but they cost about
>> $15,000-$20,000 for
>> a pack plus at least another $2,000 (probably more) for an acceptable
>> charger.
>
> Not quite that bad. Safts are now about $850-900/kWh. A 144v, 100+ah
> pack
> will set you back a little $13k. They are still about the most practical
> advanced batteries you can buy - indeed almost the ONLY.
>
THanks, Dave, I havent done the math in a while.
Can they sustain >=1C discharge? I do remember that if you go over their
sustained limit they die quickly, but I can't remember what the limit was
(1C, 2C?)
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Everyone,
I was reading Robert Zubrins article on energy and it seems that our planets
energy problems are more political than technological. We need more of
peoples politicians than scientists to make our troubles go away,My country
recently closed it biodiesel plants as they were not competitive enough.
Developed countries and global super powers must show the way to the world
in terms of energy independance and sustainable energy futures
What is stopping America from using biofuels for non automotive applications
like house heating and small scale industries?
What can a group of dedicated people not achieve ?
Instead of converting cars to electrics we should convert politicians to
green thinking. Whatever you may argue they are the decision makers so
changing them will be of more impact than changing cars to electricity.
I know it is messy but then what isnt,
But also converting cars to electricity is more easier , more fun and less
complicated than converting politicians
But then lets hope
Sushrut
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Jerry McIntire wrote:
Ryan,
My wife works in this field. Everyone in her office has the same
question, "How can they possibly make any money doing this?"
They are counting on a new lower-cost silicon source AND a new
technology that has been announced but not put into production which
would increase the output from the less expensive, lower grade silicon
they propose using. They don't have systems ready to go, they are
fishing for money, and I wouldn't put any money in it because the
likelihood of you seeing a working solar system in return is very low.
They may be counting on government tax credits to turn a loss leader
into profits, but those incentives are awfully fickle.
Jerry
---------------------------------------
I have been watching NanoSolar.com with eager anticipation. I hope to
double my 4 KW solar when they become available,
but I fear they will sell all their production to commercial energy
companies and I will not see a reduction in solar prices.
John in Sylmar, CA
My EV eats up too much of my 5 kWh at the winter solstice.
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. . .We middle-aged men are a lost cause I´m afraid...
Osmo
---------------------------
I've been watching Prius drivers lately and they all seem to be way past
middle-aged. And usually driving slow. The only Insight I've seen also has
an elderly driver, but she always flies by me.
John in Sylmar, CA
PV EV
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Cor-
I think you missed the main feature of this particular device.
They claim that, by using stepped cylinders, it provides a variable-leverage
system . They don't spell it out in this much detail, but my assumption is
that it behaves as a typical system for the first part of it's travel, and
then the ratio changes, so that, as you get to the "hard" part of the brake
pedal's travel, it supplies more hydraulic pressure in exchange for more
pedal motion - but just at the lower part of its travel.
If this is true, then it could do what it claims - supply substantially more
brake force at the end of pedal travel- where you need it - with only a
little more total pedal travel than a conventional system.
So, your analogy is good, in that it works similarly to a pulley system (
like any hydraulic system) .
But, in this case it works like a pulley system whose configuration ( and
mechanical advantage) changes partway through its range of motion.
Phil
Paul already provided the answer and the reference to the 914
forum has it in even more detail:
- if your brake cylinder diameter increased with the disk brakes,
then you have more stopping power (at the cost of larger
pedal travel)
- if your disk brake cylinders are the same diameter as the drums
then they apply the same force to the brakes. It now depends on
the pad material if you have higher friction or not.
- if the disk brake cylinders have smaller diameter than the drums
then the force on the brakes is now lower, so your stopping
power has likely deteriorated, though you should have a very
firm feeling pedal (little travel). The BPM can help you to
increase force on the brakes at the cost of larger pedal travel.
This BPM work in the same way as a pulley system can help you to
lift 2,000 lbs of weight with only 100 lbs of force, by making the
travel of the chain twenty times larger than the lift provided on
the 2,000 lbs object. The power reduces, the energy stays the same
(force x distance) just like using different gears.
Hope this clarifies,
Cor van de Water
On Feb 11, 2007, at 1:22 PM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
> Is this the answer to our power brakes(i.e. no vacuum booster)?
>
>
http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html<http://ecihotrodbr
akes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html>
_________________________________________________________________
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I need a charger for a 12 V AGM batt (Deka Group 24) that is isolated. Trouble
is, most of the stuff I have found is non-isolated. So, using it and another
charger when you have a common ground is a very bad idea ...
So, does anyone have a source?
Or, a source for an inexpensive isolation transformer?
Someone once posted something about a 12 V charger that was good for AGMs
(optimas in that thread) that had "lite" in the name, but I don't remember what
it was. Clip light? Something like that, but I didn't find it in 5 A, and I
didn't know it it is isolated, which is critical in my application. You can't
use those 6/12 Walmart smart chargers, they are not isolated. Unless of
course, I can get an isolation transformer.
Steve
---------------------------------
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.
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Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello Lee,
It is better and easier to make up the tubular axles... Just cut the
tubes to the correct length, and you can get U-joints that slide in
tight. Just weld them up and 99.9 percent of the time, they do not
need any balancing if you have a nice smooth weld bead.
These T'bird axles have CV universal joints, which don't provide a
convenient place to weld on a large diameter pipe. So, we will probably
cut the solid axles, and slide a piece of heavy-walled pipe over the cut
ends, and weld them in place.
We can buy replacement racing axles, but they are about $300 each. We'll
try the above approach first, and see how it works. But it's good to
know there's a better route if needed.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 18:35:20 -0700 (MST)
Were you experiencing brake fade due to long down hills or frequent stops
from high speed?
THe big advantage of disc brakes is that they can shed heat faster and
avoid fading (to some extent).
That certainly is one advantage, but it's a little more complicated than
that.
Drum brakes are generally " self-actuating" by design, That is, most of the
force that pushes the shoes against the inside of the drums is caused by the
friction force of the drums on the shoes. Only a relatively small actuation
force is required to start this chain reaction. That is why drum brake
systems can easily get away without power assist.
Think of it as being similar to a rope brake that you can make by wrapping a
rope several times around a tree. You only need a small force on one end to
control a very large tension force at the other end.
The downside of this self-actuating system is that the final braking torque
is not linear with the coefficient of friction between the shoes and drum.
It's a much stronger function of the friction coefficient So, a small drop
in friction coefficient ( due to temperature rise, for example)
can reduce the stopping force drastically. This is what used to be called
"brake fade".
With disc brakes, the stopping torque is linearly proportional to the
friction coefficient. A small ( or moderate) change in that coefficient
doesn't have nearly as strong an effect on the stopping power.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into
something more.
http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_gratitude&FORM=WLMTAG
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Hmmmm....
I wouldn't expect the Milwaukee packs to work in DeWalt chargers. ;-)
But I got the gist.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 11:54 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: A123 pictures
>
> I was under the impression that the BMS was located in the charger, or
> maybe it's just the brains that are in the charger.
>
> I do know that if you don't use their charger, you dont get the BMS.
> THat's why the monster garage team used the packs as-is in their drag
> racer and pulled them all out and dropped them in a bunch of dewalt
> chargers to recharge.
>
>
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12 days since the fire, and the batteries and 4 new one's are back in and
wired. I'm back on the road with some improvements to prevent further fire
(with more cable shielding where they cross the opposing voltage), more
venting (necesarily because the bed cover tarp burnt in spots)
A nice 2" PVC conduit from front to back for the cable to keep from sagging
below the frame like before.
And inner pack fuses
Did I mention Fire Extinguisher on board?
Have yet to reawaken the batteries and get range back after our 25 degree
cold snap for the last 12 days.
Spent 6 hours yesterday at a tropical 37 degrees F assembling battery pack.
Charging along,
Ben
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On 10 Feb 2007 at 21:57, Darryl McMahon wrote:
> The chargers do shut off, and then monitor the battery voltage. When
> the voltage sinks down to a set-point (for example, on the 1212SR, it is 13.8
> volts). When the battery drops to this voltage, the charger turns on again
> until the battery reaches 14.4 volts.
I wouldn't call this "shutting off." This sounds like the behavior of the
inexpensive cycle-dropping chargers you get at the auto stores. Such a
charger should not be left connected to the battery.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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On 12 Feb 2007 at 9:47, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Can they [Saft STM nicad] sustain >=1C discharge?
They're not high current batteries. About 2C is as high as you should go.
The best application for them is a lightweight EV where their relatively
modest power capability delivers good performance.
You'll find tech info on these batteries in the EVDL library :
http://www.evdl.org/lib/
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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On 10 Feb 2007 at 20:27, Rod Hower wrote:
> I just stopped by Sam's Club today and noticed
> a pretty good sized golf cart battery priced at $61.
> Seems like a good deal?
>
Aren't these the batteries that cost $45 a few years ago?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 12 Feb 2007 at 8:44, Steve Powers wrote:
> Someone once posted something about a 12 V charger that was good for AGMs
> (optimas in that thread) that had "lite" in the name, but I don't remember
> what it was. Clip light?
Cliplight is right. They manufacture (or at least used to) NAPA brand
chargers. Zap used to sell the same chargers under their name, and on the
EVDL they've thus been referred to as "Zap blinking chargers." Some have
also been sold under the Exide brand. I've seen them in 6 amp and 10 amp
flavors, and there might be others.
They're not particularly sophisticated, but they work tolearably well for
their cost. I've been using them for charging 8G24 Deka Dominators in my
Elec-Trak for 7 or 8 years now.
One caution, because of their rather crude charge control, they can take a
LONG time, as much as 24 hours, to reach full charge. They might not be
satisfactory for an EV that was driven daily.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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