EV Digest 6421
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Solectria AC system: #AC24 and #DMOC445 $6.5k. Good or not?
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) DC/DC Converter
by Daniel Eyk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: DC/DC Converter
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Handling plasmaboyracing.com blog comments
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Commutator Controller
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Handling plasmaboyracing.com blog comments
by "Obrien, Haskell W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) NiMH Batteries (was Re: Introductions
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Lithium Technology, Innosys complete electric car conversion
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Sunrise brakes, Re: Drumming For Brakes.
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Commutator Controller
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Brush Replacement Tips?
by Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Brush Replacement Tips?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Exide Orbitals anyone?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Handling plasmaboyracing.com blog comments
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: Comparison of Flat and Round Battery Cables
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Battery charger recommendation
by "David Hrivnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Comparison of Flat and Round Battery Cables
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Exide Orbitals anyone?
by "David Hrivnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: DC/DC Converter
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: NiMH Batteries (was Re: Introductions
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Speaking of Hybrids
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Comparison of Flat and Round Battery Cables
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Battery charger recommendation
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: NiMH Batteries (was Re: Introductions
by Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Handling plasmaboyracing.com blog comments
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) First post
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
I think there are a large number of Solectrias that have been built using
this setup. It would probably work just fine for a small car like a Geo
Metro or Pontiac Firefly.
There is a solectria forum on yahoo that would have much more specific
information.
Also contact electro auto directly - ask how many they have sold...
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
---------------------------------------------------
See the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Check the EVDL Archives: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
Check out the EV Photo Album: www.evalbum.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dmitri
Sent: February 15, 2007 11:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Solectria AC system: #AC24 and #DMOC445 $6.5k. Good or not?
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/acmotors.shtml
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/accontrol.shtml
Looks really good for a small car. Any info on how well this works? How come
nobody is using this?? Even has contactors in controller.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw your message on the EVDL about this converter
and was wondering if you new the item number or what
to look for to find it? I tried to find it and
couldn't. I would like to see about using it on my
S-10 conversion. Thanks, Dan Eyk
Daniel Eyk
Vancouver, Wa.
Electric S-10 project
E-15 project
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee:
Are you willing to reveal any details about this approach? I'm interested in
doing this on my conversion project.
thanks
Frank
----- Original Message ----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 5:34:19 PM
Subject: Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
We have regen, too; but by the expedient of a separate alternator on the
back of the WarP motor.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Daniel,
You mean on Ebay or on the seller's EV products website?
Ebay nr is 120086090882
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120086090882
It is still available, only "Buy it now" for $355
What voltage are you going to use?
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Daniel Eyk
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: DC/DC Converter
I saw your message on the EVDL about this converter and was wondering if you
new the item number or what to look for to find it? I tried to find it and
couldn't. I would like to see about using it on my S-10 conversion. Thanks,
Dan Eyk
Daniel Eyk
Vancouver, Wa.
Electric S-10 project
E-15 project
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Feb 15, 2007, at 10:00 AM, Mark Farver wrote:
I don't have the time to introduce several dozen people a month to the
EV world. What do you all think should be done?
Make it mandatory to register in order to leave comments. This will
help cut down on spam.
Now since you've got people signing up, you can route them to a signup
page where you point out the FAQs like "how do I convert vehicle X" or
generator-on-the-wheel questions.
As to where to look for these FAQs, this is something that's been
needed for some time. I don't have my links handy right now, but the
Wikipedia entry has some good info:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_conversion>
How about editing it to include e.g. part/kit vendors, battery choice,
some equations, other FAQs?
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://www.gdunge.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In still looking for a Plan B for my SepEx controller for my EVCort I was
really mulling over this idea of a 'commutator controller' and hoping the list
could give me a little more feedback on this crazy idea I have.
James Massey had posted some text art describing his idea which was basically a
rotating commutator with a fixed brush and a movable brush such that it behaves
like the PWM of an electronic controller, only done mechanically.
My questions are (assuming that the mechanical issues can be worked out to even
make it work): What other issues would need to be addressed? I know that
current limiting would need to be watched. Would arcing be an issue? I will
still have some heavy duty capacitors between the 'controller' and the
batteries but what about freewheeling diodes? Could I still get Regen and how
would that work?
One other thought which somewhat complicates matters is the field control. I
could probably have a separate set of brushes for it. Even make the linkage
allow for the ramp up and then taper off for the field weakening.
On the matter of regen. I'm not exactly sure the sequence of events. Full field
and then slowly increment the PWM of the armature? How about voltage limit?
Should I use some sort of Zener Diodes or could I just allow whatever voltage
was generated to go into the batteries? Would that affect those capacitors?
What about driveability? Would it behave like a sort of cruise control?
Somebody had mentioned sometime ago on the list about only needing 1 pedal. Not
even needing the brake regen just control the accelerator. What if you came
full off quickly though?
Anyway, hoping y'all have some more input for me as I'm hoping this could work
better than a contactor controller.
Regards,
Chet
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Making anyone who leaves a comment confirm it via email link cuts down
on them quite a bit.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Doug Weathers
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 4:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Handling plasmaboyracing.com blog comments
On Feb 15, 2007, at 10:00 AM, Mark Farver wrote:
> I don't have the time to introduce several dozen people a month to the
> EV world. What do you all think should be done?
Make it mandatory to register in order to leave comments. This will
help cut down on spam.
Now since you've got people signing up, you can route them to a signup
page where you point out the FAQs like "how do I convert vehicle X" or
generator-on-the-wheel questions.
As to where to look for these FAQs, this is something that's been
needed for some time. I don't have my links handy right now, but the
Wikipedia entry has some good info:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_conversion>
How about editing it to include e.g. part/kit vendors, battery choice,
some equations, other FAQs?
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://www.gdunge.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Welcome! Just a question, I really wanted to use NiMHs (they are available
> NOW, and they last a long time, etc), but I couldn't find any in large
> enough capacity.
There is a reason that you can't buy them in large enough capacities for
EVs. Cobasys owns the patent on NiMH, and Cobasys is a wholely owned
subsidiary of Chevron (you know, the Oil company). Their licensing
agreement specifically prohibits manufacturing cells large enough for
electric vehicles. I guess Chevron is afraid that it would cut into their
profits.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Link to article:
http://autoelectronics.com/news/electric_car_conversion_0214/index.html
Lithium Technology, Innosys complete electric car conversion
Feb 14, 2007 12:49 PM
Lithium Technology Corporation <http://www.lithiumtech.com/> said it partnered
with Innosys Engineering <http://home.casema.nl/innosysengineering> to convert
a four-passenger Daihatsu Cuore <http://www.daihatsu.com/catalogue/cuore> into
an electric car using lithium-ion (Li-Ion) batteries and a three-phase
asynchronous electric motor.
The battery, built with cells manufactured by LTC subsidiary GAIA
<http://www.gaia-akku-online.de/ENG/SEITEN> , has a capacity of 25 kWh and an
approximate highway range of 180 km to 200 km (100 to125 miles) at 90 to
100km/hr (56 to 60 mph). Lithium Technology executive vice president and GAIA
managing director Klaus Brandt said those results are similar to the expected
performance of GM’s Volt <http://www.gm-volt.com/> .
Advances in Li-Ion technology have helped make hybrid-electric vehicles (HEVs),
plug-in hybrid-electric vehicles (PHEVs) and electric vehicles (EVs) a viable
alternative to traditional fuel-powered automotives for the near future,
according to Brandt. “There has been a change of mindset within the car
industry over the past two years triggered by the success the Japanese have had
with the HEV,” he said.
“Price is the biggest factor holding back the production of these more
environmentally friendly, fuel efficient vehicles,” Brandt continued. “By
committing to work together, the auto manufactures and battery companies can
bring the cost down and make cars like the Volt an affordable reality for the
consumer.”
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee, Bob and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Drumming For Brakes. WAS Re: Brake Pressure
Multiplier?
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:39:37 -0600
>Lee Hart wrote:
>>> How would people feel if I used drum brakes on the
>>> Sunrise kit car? 1. Great idea! Eliminates dragging
>>> brakes, and probably cheaper too. 2. Horrible idea! No
>>> one would even consider not having disk brakes
>nowdays.
It has several advantages like lower drag, less
pressure needed so no need for a vacuum booster is a big
plus, lighter in many cases I've found.
>
>Bob Rice wrote:
>> Me too [for drums]. Funny the Corvair Corsa, of 1965, had
>> 10 inch drums all around, and did fine. No power assist,
>> but with those huge drums you wouldn't have needed it.
I agree Bob. I've driven many all drum cars, trucks
without boosters and they have done very well.
>
>I happen to have a 1965 Corsa. It's about the same size and
>weight as the Sunrise, and Bob is right; its drum brakes
>work quite well. This is one of the things that prejudices
>me toward drums.
Same here along with them being lighter than any
stock disc brakes in the junk yards unless you machine,
drill the rotors and use alum calipers.
One thing on the Sunrise in both acceleration and
braking is it's CG will be so low, under 17", not much
weight shifting, transfer actually happens so the rear brake
will be used a lot more.
Another is as an EV most will not use the brakes
much due to range driving technics. I rarely use mine.
Anyone in mountain areas needs regen anyway.
As the Sunrise weighs a fair amount less than a
T-bird/Cougar, it will probably work well without a booster
and it's infernal noise, cost, weight, hassle.
While many disc brakes have sping clips, rubber
boots to retract them, they only work for a while before
rust, junk makes them stick.
>
>However, one advantage of using the 1989-97 T-Bird/Cougar
>as a donor car is they are available with both drums and
>disks. Builders can pick what they like.
Same on my Freedom EV which uses Saturn rear brakes
as both drums and discs have the same bolt pattern and
interchange nicely.
Jerry Dycus
>
>--
>Ring the bells that still can ring
>Forget the perfect offering
>There is a crack in everything
>That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>--
>Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
>leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chet,
What are you trying to achieve with this setup?
Define your goals clearly and half the problem is solved,
you will also be able to easily rate the merits of different solutions.
Re control with 1 pedal: you mean use an accelerator that gives zero
acceleration (idle/coast) when half-depressed and gives increasing
regen when let up; and more acceleration when pushed further down?
Or do you intend to run the car backwards when the pedal is let up?
(do you have a separate Forward/reverse control or is it also
included in the pedal?)
This effect can be witnessed in R/C cars with joystick control.
However; those always have a spring-return centre position.
If you can lift the pedal by stepping on the bottom side
(toe/heel control) then you may simulate it, but it is counter-
intuitive to drive backwards when "heeling" the accelerator and can
easily lead to accidental front-ending someone behind you.
Not having a foot-operated break pedal is not legal on a road-going
passenger vehicle in the USA, though there may be waivers for
joystick control or manual brakes for the disabled.
Regards,
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chet Fields
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:08 PM
To: EV List
Subject: Commutator Controller
In still looking for a Plan B for my SepEx controller for my EVCort I was
really mulling over this idea of a 'commutator controller' and hoping the
list could give me a little more feedback on this crazy idea I have.
James Massey had posted some text art describing his idea which was
basically a rotating commutator with a fixed brush and a movable brush such
that it behaves like the PWM of an electronic controller, only done
mechanically.
My questions are (assuming that the mechanical issues can be worked out to
even make it work): What other issues would need to be addressed? I know
that current limiting would need to be watched. Would arcing be an issue? I
will still have some heavy duty capacitors between the 'controller' and the
batteries but what about freewheeling diodes? Could I still get Regen and
how would that work?
One other thought which somewhat complicates matters is the field control. I
could probably have a separate set of brushes for it. Even make the linkage
allow for the ramp up and then taper off for the field weakening.
On the matter of regen. I'm not exactly sure the sequence of events. Full
field and then slowly increment the PWM of the armature? How about voltage
limit?
Should I use some sort of Zener Diodes or could I just allow whatever
voltage was generated to go into the batteries? Would that affect those
capacitors?
What about driveability? Would it behave like a sort of cruise control?
Somebody had mentioned sometime ago on the list about only needing 1 pedal.
Not even needing the brake regen just control the accelerator. What if you
came full off quickly though?
Anyway, hoping y'all have some more input for me as I'm hoping this could
work better than a contactor controller.
Regards,
Chet
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Never Miss an Email
Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!
http://mobile.yahoo.com/services?promote=mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All,
On Saturday the Triangle Electric Auto Association is going to do their
first brush replacement on an 8" ADC. The owner has ordered the brushes
and they should be here by now. The motor is in a Geo Metro. We've
read Convert It!! Any other tips?
Peter
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Feb 13, 2007, at 10:17 PM, Cor van de Water wrote:
How would people feel if I used drum brakes on the Sunrise kit car?
1. Great idea! Eliminates dragging brakes, and probably cheaper too.
2. Horrible idea! No one would even consider not having disk brakes
nowdays.
Its a fine idea, I'm am a fan of drum brakes. I do have some concerns
though...
Do you plan to include regen braking? I think front drum brakes would
be more acceptable with some help. Regen is one way, well oversized is
another way, and double leading shoe designs can help by reducing
baseline effort (common on old Datsun cars and trucks and VW type II
transporters.) Drum brakes work great on my EV buggy, but its only 1420
lb. and has 9 inch by about 1.3 inch drums (stock 1964 Beetle brakes.)
Another catch I can see is that you are trying to use readily available
parts (at least that is my take from what you are written so far.) Is
there a front drum brake system that is still easily available? You may
have more luck finding a available parts in a duel piston fixed caliper
design. You don't have to rely on the exposed pins actually sliding and
you get a seal on both side to pull back (roughly twice the pull back?)
The last though about drum brakes is the adjuster. Some of the factory
designs are sloppy enough that sometimes they drag all the time anyway
(know the donor issue.) Manually adjusted brakes will work when its an
enthusiast base but I don't think the larger public will accept it.
I'm tossing feedback - if it helps that's great, if not remember what
you paid for it :-)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes! They should've ordered a stone with which to
grind the brushes so that their contact area is shaped
to that of the commutator. My understanding is that
it limits brush arcing, and maximizes performance.
Also, learning how the brush spring can slip over and
slide on top of the brush holder so as to be up and
out of the way is quite interesting, but once you look
at it carefully, and try it, it's no big deal.
Best to you,
--- Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> On Saturday the Triangle Electric Auto Association
> is going to do their
> first brush replacement on an 8" ADC. The owner has
> ordered the brushes
> and they should be here by now. The motor is in a
> Geo Metro. We've
> read Convert It!! Any other tips?
>
> Peter
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Feb 14, 2007, at 6:13 PM, Mark Ward wrote:
I can get Exide Orbitals wholesale ($100 ea. approx)through where I
work. Has anyone had experience good or bad with them?
I will be needing batts in the near future...hopefully!
The XCD and blue top Orbitals have been successfully used in EVs. They
spec out in the same range as Optimas. I think they have proven to have
slightly more peak amp capacity, but slightly less available amp hours.
They are popular with the performance EV crowd. They have slightly
different dimensions than the Optimas so if you are interested in them
I recommend building your battery boxes to fit either of these
batteries (and any other "group 34" deep cycle AGM battery you can
find.)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If the site is going to get that many hits the exposure to electric vehicles
would be a good thing. Most people are interested with basic information to
start with. How about a link that directs them to the general answers most
people are looking for?
Thinking of building an EV?
_http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/build_
(http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/build)
See over 1000 EV's others have built
_http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/_ (http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/)
Electric vehicles for sale
_http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/_
(http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/)
Don
In a message dated 2/15/2007 2:53:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Making anyone who leaves a comment confirm it via email link cuts down
on them quite a bit.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Doug Weathers
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 4:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Handling plasmaboyracing.com blog comments
On Feb 15, 2007, at 10:00 AM, Mark Farver wrote:
> I don't have the time to introduce several dozen people a month to the
> EV world. What do you all think should be done?
Make it mandatory to register in order to leave comments. This will
help cut down on spam.
Now since you've got people signing up, you can route them to a signup
page where you point out the FAQs like "how do I convert vehicle X" or
generator-on-the-wheel questions.
As to where to look for these FAQs, this is something that's been
needed for some time. I don't have my links handy right now, but the
Wikipedia entry has some good info:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_conversion>
How about editing it to include e.g. part/kit vendors, battery choice,
some equations, other FAQs?
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://www.gdunge.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
using copper pipe for a conductor is the same a using a buss bar of flat copper
bars , I believe u will find that the lack of flexibility will cause metal
fatigue on the buss and ultimate failure and you will end up with movement
amongst the batteries from any bouncing around caused by road vibrations . and
beside my gut reaction says poor battery connection and early failure high heat
loss hard to make good connection to battery .. even though the theory
will figure out to more surface area using the inside and outside of the pipe
..
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:36 AM
Subject: Comparison of Flat and Round Battery Cables
I have heard of people using 1" X 1/16" copper for connections between
batteries. How does the current carrying capacity of this compare with 2/0
gauge round cable? It seems like the flat strip weighs roughly half of what
the 2/0 cable weighs per foot...
Bruce
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was wondering if you could give me some advice on a good charger for
my hybrid conversion plan.
I am planning 2 strings of 6 12V AGM batteries for 72V total. The total
battery cost will run me about $1000
To charge them I am trying to decide among three options.
1) Schumacher SE-1072 - $200, this is basically a 10 amp dumb
charger and I would probably need to add a timer.
2) Zivan NG1 - $600 this seems to have some reasonable battery
management
3) Manzanita PFC-20 - $1700 This seems like a first class charger
but the price is high
As usual price does matter but I prefer not to ruin my batteries
prematurely. I am worried the lower cost Schumacher could cook the
batteries. Yet for the cost of Manzanita I could replace my battery
pack twice. I was hoping to find something that will last 3 years and
by then replace with newer lithium so the goal is not to last for the
longest possible time. Do you have any suggestions for me? I even
thought of 6 Soneil chargers but am not sure I can properly isolate the
batteries so I could charge at 12V but run the motor at 72V.
The batteries will be about 55 amphr so I am planning 110 amphrs at 72V.
I plan to charge them overnight, so a rapid charge is not important to
me.
Thank you in advance for any comments or advice.
PS the project I am planning is a hybrid not a pure EV. I have a full
size Chevrolet 1500 series truck. I plan on leaving the ICE engine and
then adding an electric motor in series with a shortened driveshaft. So
the electric does not have to fully power the vehicle. I am however
hoping the electric motor can provide peak power so around town the ICE
can more or less idle giving me a MPG boost. So while I will still use
gasoline I hope to use less of it. If the project does not work out
look for some great deals on EV parts on eBay.
David J. Hrivnak
www.hrivnak.com
Personal Account WWJD?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think it was Lee who warned about the poor conductivity of copper pipe.
Typically much worse than the same diameter welding cable or copper strip,
such as you can cut from flat stock.
I know US Electricar, probably others as well, have used flat copper strips
to mate adjacent batteries - the strip was never straight though: it always
had a little U between the two flat ends to the battery terminals, so there
was little force on the terminals and the batteries could move relative to
each other which would just flex the U.
Copper pipe may be OK to make cheap lugs and short interconnects, but you
may be disappointed with the performance when using longer pieces (higher
resistance) and the other drawback is the two walls, which will make it
inflexible and prone to cracking, resulting in interesting welding
experiments in your battery pack.
Success,
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of FRED JEANETTE MERTENS
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Comparison of Flat and Round Battery Cables
using copper pipe for a conductor is the same a using a buss bar of flat
copper bars , I believe u will find that the lack of flexibility will
cause metal fatigue on the buss and ultimate failure and you will end up
with movement amongst the batteries from any bouncing around caused by road
vibrations . and beside my gut reaction says poor battery connection and
early failure high heat loss hard to make good connection to battery ..
even though the theory will figure out to more surface area using the inside
and outside of the pipe ..
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:36 AM
Subject: Comparison of Flat and Round Battery Cables
I have heard of people using 1" X 1/16" copper for connections between
batteries. How does the current carrying capacity of this compare with
2/0
gauge round cable? It seems like the flat strip weighs roughly half of
what
the 2/0 cable weighs per foot...
Bruce
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Can you get the narrow model the yellow top D51. I would be happy to
buy 12
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Ward
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Exide Orbitals anyone?
I can get Exide Orbitals wholesale ($100 ea. approx)through where I
work.
Has anyone had experience good or bad with them?
I will be needing batts in the near future...hopefully!
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
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Look up www.belktronix.com, and you should be able to
track it down.
--- Daniel Eyk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I saw your message on the EVDL about this converter
> and was wondering if you new the item number or what
> to look for to find it? I tried to find it and
> couldn't. I would like to see about using it on my
> S-10 conversion. Thanks, Dan Eyk
>
> Daniel Eyk
> Vancouver, Wa.
>
> Electric S-10 project
> E-15 project
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a PS3 game guru.
> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and
> previews at Yahoo! Games.
> http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
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=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
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Good news! We already have "large enough capacities for EVs", as the
Intellect 9Ah D-cells are now available and can be paralleled, I have a
5.4KwH pack being tested right now and will be going into the Nimble
Motorsports Hybrid once the mechanical drive part is done.
I've got the BMS circuit boards and have been doing some limited testing
on them, haven't had much time to work on it lately, but hoping within a
month I'll have the hybrid car running on the road under NiMH power.
Jack
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Welcome! Just a question, I really wanted to use NiMHs (they are available
NOW, and they last a long time, etc), but I couldn't find any in large
enough capacity.
There is a reason that you can't buy them in large enough capacities for
EVs. Cobasys owns the patent on NiMH, and Cobasys is a wholely owned
subsidiary of Chevron (you know, the Oil company). Their licensing
agreement specifically prohibits manufacturing cells large enough for
electric vehicles. I guess Chevron is afraid that it would cut into their
profits.
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Another idea I'll suggest is to weld the coupler, but instead of welding
the ends to the shaft, you drill holes in the coupler, and weld inside
the holes. This distributes the heat/welds around the shafts and
doesn't create a single break line at the welds.
Jack
Lee Hart wrote:
Andrew Kane wrote:
Could you perhaps cut a spline on outside of shaft / inside of sleeve?
Possibly, but it's expensive. The outer CV joint is permanently attached
to the axle, so it would flop around and get in the way when you are
machining. The shaft is also hardened, and hard to cut.
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From: Cor van de Water
>I think it was Lee who warned about the poor conductivity of copper pipe.
>Typically much worse than the same diameter welding cable or copper strip,
>such as you can cut from flat stock.
Yes; I think the copper pipe normally used for home plumbing is an alloy,
rather than pure copper. It is also hard drawn, for rigidity. These two factors
account for its higher resistance.
If you're going to make your own terminals, you should use the flexible soft
drawn copper tubing that comes in coils. The last I knew, it was >99% pure
copper.
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Most of us on the list seem to be using Manzanita
Micro:
Power factor corrected; input for AGM batt regulation;
easy to equalize/program; accepts multiple input
voltages.
My 0.02.
--- David Hrivnak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was wondering if you could give me some advice on
> a good charger for
> my hybrid conversion plan.
>
> I am planning 2 strings of 6 12V AGM batteries for
> 72V total. The total
> battery cost will run me about $1000
>
> To charge them I am trying to decide among three
> options.
> 1) Schumacher SE-1072 - $200, this is
> basically a 10 amp dumb
> charger and I would probably need to add a timer.
> 2) Zivan NG1 - $600 this seems to have some
> reasonable battery
> management
> 3) Manzanita PFC-20 - $1700 This seems like a
> first class charger
> but the price is high
>
> As usual price does matter but I prefer not to ruin
> my batteries
> prematurely. I am worried the lower cost Schumacher
> could cook the
> batteries. Yet for the cost of Manzanita I could
> replace my battery
> pack twice. I was hoping to find something that
> will last 3 years and
> by then replace with newer lithium so the goal is
> not to last for the
> longest possible time. Do you have any suggestions
> for me? I even
> thought of 6 Soneil chargers but am not sure I can
> properly isolate the
> batteries so I could charge at 12V but run the motor
> at 72V.
>
> The batteries will be about 55 amphr so I am
> planning 110 amphrs at 72V.
> I plan to charge them overnight, so a rapid charge
> is not important to
> me.
>
> Thank you in advance for any comments or advice.
>
> PS the project I am planning is a hybrid not a pure
> EV. I have a full
> size Chevrolet 1500 series truck. I plan on leaving
> the ICE engine and
> then adding an electric motor in series with a
> shortened driveshaft. So
> the electric does not have to fully power the
> vehicle. I am however
> hoping the electric motor can provide peak power so
> around town the ICE
> can more or less idle giving me a MPG boost. So
> while I will still use
> gasoline I hope to use less of it. If the project
> does not work out
> look for some great deals on EV parts on eBay.
>
> David J. Hrivnak
> www.hrivnak.com
> Personal Account WWJD?
>
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Never Miss an Email
Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!
http://mobile.yahoo.com/services?promote=mail
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May I ask what BMS circuit boards you're looking at, and what
functionality they provide?
I would be very keen to hear how things go with the NiMHs.. :)
-Ian
On 16/02/2007, at 12:04 PM, Jack Murray wrote:
Good news! We already have "large enough capacities for EVs", as
the Intellect 9Ah D-cells are now available and can be paralleled,
I have a 5.4KwH pack being tested right now and will be going into
the Nimble Motorsports Hybrid once the mechanical drive part is done.
I've got the BMS circuit boards and have been doing some limited
testing on them, haven't had much time to work on it lately, but
hoping within a month I'll have the hybrid car running on the road
under NiMH power.
Jack
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Welcome! Just a question, I really wanted to use NiMHs (they are
available
NOW, and they last a long time, etc), but I couldn't find any in
large
enough capacity.
There is a reason that you can't buy them in large enough
capacities for
EVs. Cobasys owns the patent on NiMH, and Cobasys is a wholely owned
subsidiary of Chevron (you know, the Oil company). Their licensing
agreement specifically prohibits manufacturing cells large enough for
electric vehicles. I guess Chevron is afraid that it would cut
into their
profits.
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Point them to either the evparts.com FAQ or to Mike Chancey's excellent article
"so you want to build an electric car." His article is linked from the
evalbum.com webpage.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:00:04 PM
Subject: Handling plasmaboyracing.com blog comments
John Wayland's website has the option to post comments about articles
he's written. It hasn't been terribly useful, most of the comments are
either spam, or "How can I build my own EV?" type questions. Only a few
comments are actually about the post.
Right now, I delete the spam and the newbie posts. I hate doing that,
but I don't have the time to introduce several dozen people a month to
the EV world. What do you all think should be done?
I see a few options:
1. Disable the comment section. John likes the idea of it, but its
really not being used.
2. Have a boilerplate reply to these types of inquiries that has a list
of links and suggestions on where to start looking. (Anyone want to
write one, or can you suggest a website that serves the same purpose?)
It looks like the Car and Driver article featuring Wayland will hit
newsstands shortly, so I expect a big uptick in traffic to the website.
John's been learning html and writing his own content for the site, but
images of his cars, videos or articles written by others about him or
his vehicles are always appreciated. Feel free to email anything you
have to me.
If there are any HTML layout masters who would be willing to spare a few
minutes let me know. Right now the mainpage has one button that has a
font that doesn't match the others, and a really old school table based
layout that could be cleaned up.
Thanks
Mark Farver
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
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Hi there,
I just joined this list yesterday, and I've considered going electric
for quite some time but only started seriously researching it last
week. I'm not really "into" cars as it were, I just use them to get
from point A to point B, but my uncle's a mechanic with over 30-35
years' experience and has agreed to help me do a conversion, and
although he seemed to be somewhat familiar with the terminology and
other information I've learned from my research, I don't think he's
ever actually done an EV conversion before. But he said he was
willing to help me out, so I have started collecting as many details
as possible. I've found parts suppliers, online instructions from
others who have done their own conversions, and lots of enthusiasm
for EVs in general; I have also, however, found much conflicting
information about what is and isn't possible, along with a lot of
gloom-and-doom nay-sayers who insist none of the effort is worth the
end result. I am convinced this is something I want to do, but I have
to get the logistics worked out and figure out how I can make it work
for my situation. Perhaps some of you could help me.
This message is long; I apologize; I'm very serious about learning
how to do this properly, so I may seem a bit overzealous in my
enthusiasm.
First, do ALL conversions have to be tiny cars? I love the tiny cars
as a rule, but for this application it's not possible. I'm not
looking to convert a behemoth or anything, as I'm just as disgusted
by those as many EV enthusiasts are. The vehicle I'm hoping to
convert is something like a Dodge Sprinter (the short body 118"
version, which is about the length of a mini-van, but I need to get
the high roof version, which measures 73" or 6 ft standing room from
floor to ceiling), and it will be empty when I start except for the
front driver/passenger seats. I won't be loading it up with junk,
just modest camping/office accommodations and I'll be powering all my
electricity-requiring stuff by a solar panel. I need enough power to
propel the vehicle at highway-legal speeds for as long of a range as
possible given the current battery technologies available (perhaps
Lithium-Polymer, as suggested on a site by a guy who outlined his
conversion in detail), but I'm not pre-occupied with any of the
performance-type concerns of sports car people. 55-65 mph would be
plenty, as long as it won't creep like a turtle while going up a
hill. It needs to transport me and my two small lap-size dogs, plus
my gear, which is miniscule compared to most people's standards, and
I'd like to use regenerative braking to help with some of the energy
generation, plus I'd like to connect solar panels (separate from the
one that will run my laptop, etc.), NOT to recharge while driving
necessarily as I've read that doesn't really work all that well, but
instead to recharge on the days I'm NOT driving, such as while
sitting in a national park or campground. So I need to find
instructions on how to actually hook up the batteries to roof-mounted
solar panels rather than stationary panels at a home location. It
will be much lighter overall than a factory-built camper van, as I
will be building the interior myself, sans most of the heavy stuff
they usually stick in those things.
Whew, that was a mouthful. I may have forgotten something, but I'm
sure it'll come out during the course of this discussion.
I'll be fully self-contained for extended periods in this vehicle,
taking photographs, writing essays, and remotely working with my
laptop and wireless card. I will plug into grid power when available,
but I don't want to have to rely on any outside sources during my
travels. I realize that I won't be able to drive every day because
some days will be "charging only" days, and I know I'm not going to
be able to drive for hours and hours without stopping (unless I can
find some feasible batteries that provide more range than what I've
been able to find thus far). Although the vehicle will be for long-
distance travel, it's not like a race or anything. It's for driving a
couple hours, then stopping to work for several hours and take
photographs at various locations during daylight hours then charging
the batteries the next day while working on-site, then heading off
the next day with a full charge. During this time, I'll be doing
multiple things: freelancing, operating a website, and working on a
doctorate, and I plan to travel only where it's not cold (spring/
summer/fall in colder climates, year-round in places with warm
climates). But becoming energy-independent is very important to me
and I am determined to alleviate fossil fuels.
I hope I'm explaining this clearly enough, as I know I can get chatty
and ramble on when I get excited.
I also realize that what I'm proposing will probably draw a lot of
negative responses from people who say it's just not possible, but I
don't care, I'm going to do it anyway, so the more helpful
information I can collect the better. I will find a way to make it
work successfully; it's just non-negotiable. I won't give up until I
figure it out; it's an integral part of my overall mission. If I need
to make certain concessions in some places to make it work, then I'll
consider that once all alternatives have proven ineffective.
Second major issue: I need to figure out the maximum number of
batteries I can put into the thing without it weighing me down so
much that it negates their value. I also would prefer not to blow up,
of course. ;-) From what I've read so far, it appears that for my
application, AC would be better than DC, but correct me if you think
I'm mistaken. I'm wondering if it's possible to mount batteries
underneath the van, as there's extra space not available in a small
car (much like those who convert pickups put batteries in the truck
bed), and how far above the ground do the need to be, etc? What's the
maximum amps each battery can have, as I've found deep-cycle
batteries available up to over 200 amp hours. I'm probably going to
need 12-volt instead of 6-volt, but I could be wrong there too.
How many batteries can go with each controller, motor, etc? Is it
possible to have two separate systems that I can flip a switch
between? For example, to run the vehicle off one set while charging
the other via solar? This may sound silly, but I haven't found any
info yet that specifically says this is impossible, so I have to ask.
I need to be as economical as humanly possible given the parameters I
need to achieve, so any details about how much all this will cost
(except the solar, as I've already found the info I need about that)
and where to get the best deal on the electric conversion parts would
be most appreciated.
OK, I've wasted enough of your time tonight; hopefully I will learn
more about this from all of you.
One last question: Is it possible to receive these messages in digest
format? I only joined yesterday and I've already received nearly 200
individual messages, and my inbox is difficult to navigate as a result.
If you've actually read this far, thanks a bunch for your time,
Crystal :-)
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