EV Digest 6424
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Battery charger recommendation
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: what does unsprung mass or weight mean?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: First post
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: First post
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: First post
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Mo' Bettah
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Heidi & Tweety In Austin Monthly magazine...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) RE: Commutator Controller
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Front Suspension, was RE: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) converting auto to manual trans
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: Lithium Technology, Innosys complete electric car conversion
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: First post
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) RE: First post
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
David,
In the truck you are planning on installing that you are going
to have serious problems at 72V. I don't think you will be able to get
enough speed to drive around town at that voltage with that much weight.
Most 1500 series trucks weigh around 4000 lbs (my 68 weighs 3970 and my
95 3/4 ton 2wd weighs 5850). At that weight plus the weight of all the
controller, batteries, and motor you would be adding close to another
1000 pounds. Believe me, I think your idea is a good one, but without
more voltage I think you would be very dissappointed in your outcome.
Also, since you are planning on putting it in between the transmission
and the carrier bearing I think you will have problems with heavy
current draw at low speeds. You might want to consider putting the
motor to the side of the small driveshaft and connecting the motor to it
with a chain. That way you can adjust the ratio of the electric motor
to the driveshaft for best all around acceleration and top speed. I
believe for a vehicle that size you will have to use a Netgain 11 or 13
inch motor to go direct drive. Those motors are capable of huge amounts
of torque. They are pricey (my netgain 9 inch cost $1700) but well
worth it.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Hrivnak
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 21:17
To: [email protected]
Subject: Battery charger recommendation
I was wondering if you could give me some advice on a good charger for
my hybrid conversion plan.
I am planning 2 strings of 6 12V AGM batteries for 72V total. The total
battery cost will run me about $1000
To charge them I am trying to decide among three options.
1) Schumacher SE-1072 - $200, this is basically a 10 amp dumb
charger and I would probably need to add a timer.
2) Zivan NG1 - $600 this seems to have some reasonable battery
management
3) Manzanita PFC-20 - $1700 This seems like a first class charger
but the price is high
As usual price does matter but I prefer not to ruin my batteries
prematurely. I am worried the lower cost Schumacher could cook the
batteries. Yet for the cost of Manzanita I could replace my battery
pack twice. I was hoping to find something that will last 3 years and
by then replace with newer lithium so the goal is not to last for the
longest possible time. Do you have any suggestions for me? I even
thought of 6 Soneil chargers but am not sure I can properly isolate the
batteries so I could charge at 12V but run the motor at 72V.
The batteries will be about 55 amphr so I am planning 110 amphrs at 72V.
I plan to charge them overnight, so a rapid charge is not important to
me.
Thank you in advance for any comments or advice.
PS the project I am planning is a hybrid not a pure EV. I have a full
size Chevrolet 1500 series truck. I plan on leaving the ICE engine and
then adding an electric motor in series with a shortened driveshaft. So
the electric does not have to fully power the vehicle. I am however
hoping the electric motor can provide peak power so around town the ICE
can more or less idle giving me a MPG boost. So while I will still use
gasoline I hope to use less of it. If the project does not work out
look for some great deals on EV parts on eBay.
David J. Hrivnak
www.hrivnak.com
Personal Account WWJD?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The real issue is not the unsprung weight as much as it is the ratio of
sprung to unsprung weight.
looking back at the tire hitting a bump example.
If you have a 4000lb SUV and a 100lb rim and tire(not kidding) then you
can have a stiff spring and high damp shock because you have the 4000lb
to work against. The 500lb/in spring is compressed 2 inch at rest and
the tire hitting the bump is resisted translateing to the body by the
the compressing the spring which is backed up by the mass of the
vehicle. The rate of compression is low on the spring and the tire stays
in contact with the road.
if,however you have a 2400 lb sportscar, you have to have 300lb/in
springs and would assume a 60lb wheel is the limit. But the wheel
compresses the spring faster which increases the momentum and you can't
push it back down as well, this tire "lifts" or skips or looses tire
patch and therefore the lighter the car the more critical this ratio is.
I would put wheel motors on a bus(huge sprung mass), A bicycle(high
ratio to mass,Active suspension is legs), limo's etc.
Never on a race car, mount them inboard and use shafts.
Maybe on a typical RWD truck since 1 motor might weight less than 1/2
rear axle which on a hotskiss drive we must include. But I am sure we
have all seen the rear axle hop on a pickup with no cargo on heavy
acceleration or braking.
Maybe on an lead sled EV this would work ok as we get to add sprung
weight, my nissan 300zx weights 4050lbs!
My biggest concern is actually that the wheel is our first line of
defense against the road. I would rather replace a $300 rim and tire
from a pothole from hell in any available autoparts store than a $10,000
Wheel motor available from the dealer only.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am currently in Iowa, where I grew up, but once I leave again, I'll
probably be spending most of my time in Northern California and/or
Pacific Northwest areas, at least for the next few years.
On Feb 15, 2007, at 11:39 PM, Mike Willmon wrote:
Crystal,
BTW, where in this world of ours are you located?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I have several months to save up as I go, as long as I can have
something usable ready before August, I won't complain too much. I'm
quite cashless, except for the money I will receive from selling my
current vehicle (which I will use to buy the van in question), but
the plan is to buy parts as the money comes in...so it's important I
figure out exactly which parts I'll need and how much it will cost to
get them–so I'm not overwhelmed when I start buying stuff. I can
always add more solar panels as time passes (that is, until the roof
is completely full), so being able to recharge fully without an AC
outlet might be something to work toward eventually as funds and
technology allow.
Like I mentioned in my first post, I'm not concerned with super speed
and/or flashy show-off acceleration or whatever. I just want it to be
fast enough to legally drive on highways without getting run over by
mobile homes and other slower vehicles. I'm even willing to avoid
interstates and freeways whenever possible, if it will help. If I
have to take more than 1-2 days off between charges in order to fully
replenish the batteries, then I guess I'll have to deal with it.
There' s not really any danger of my getting bored on off days, as I
can spend hours working, and the peace/quiet in nature settings will
actually benefit me. I will try to stop at places where I can plug in
on most days, but if I'm in the middle of something important, I
don't want to have to waste my remaining daylight hours and battery
power driving to look for an outlet. I'd rather just set up camp for
a few days while the solar panels work their magic. I can always find
some productive way to pass the time. :-)
Once I have the parts, how long will it take to actually put the
whole thing together? I saw a video online in which this guy in
Southern California was talking about the class he teaches–the
participants are taught how to build an EV in 10 days. Is this for
real, or does he mean that the whole class of many people
simultaneously work on a single conversion and are able to finish in
10 days?
As for money, I'm basically selling everything I own short of what I
can carry on my back or in the van, so that will help, but most of it
I'll have to generate from other projects. I'll be willing to put
almost everything I make into it because I want it to be well done
and last me several years (except for changing batteries, which I
have learned I'll have to do every 3-5 years, right?).
On Feb 16, 2007, at 12:10 AM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
All you need is some $$$ and you can build ANYTHING you want. The
time is available. The resources, the parts, the people, the
knowledge. How about the money for the parts? That's the greatest
hindrance for all of us.
Here is what I could tentatively buy if funds allowed:
$4900 * 13" WarP
$4850 * Zilla
$1550 * PFC-20 (minimum, PFC40/50+ likely, 75 even..)
$2250 * Odyssey PC680 (30ct) ($4500 for 60, 2 strings @ 360V total)
---------
$13,550
Still not fast enough though...
If I had the above; how could I make it go even faster(1/4 mile)?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, this is very helpful; thank you. OK, so Li-Io are out of the
question, at least for the next few years until the prices fall from
the stratosphere. My second choice would have been the Deep-Cycle Gel
batteries like the kind typically used in marine applications, and it
seems this is what you're suggesting. It would be great if I could
use the maintenance-free enclosed type instead of having to remember
to add water, but I guess if need be I could always remind myself in
iCal.
Charging in an RV park or public campground (less expensive than RV
parks these days it seems) sounds like a good idea for most days–what
about rest stops? Do they have AC outlets at any of those? Would it
ever be possible to run a long cord from the vehicle to an outlet in
the restroom of the building? Saving money anywhere I can will help a
lot.
A 125-watt solar panel is approximately 24"x48" right? So, 1000 watts
would need about 8 panels and would take up, say 16'?? I think a
Sprinter is only about 10' long. Are larger wattage panels only
slightly larger in dimensions? Would it be better to have a whole
bunch of smaller-watt panels strung together or a few much larger
panels? Does it really matter? I should be able to maintain my entire
interior arsenal with only one solar panel, and I may get one I can
carry with me in a backpack (foldable) to operate my laptop and
accessories. In any case, I obviously won't be able to afford to get
all of the panels straightaway; I'll have to start out with plug-in
charging for the most part. Solar panels have a long lifespan, don't
they? I'm hoping they could be an investment that eventually I'll
uninstall from the vehicle and install elsewhere after I'm done with
the van; is this possible, or would I have to replace the panels
nearly as often as the batteries?
I don't want to have to resort to diesel/electric hybrid, but I guess
if I can find no other viable solutions, I might have to consider it.
Is it any more difficult to do a hybrid conversion than an all-
electric one? See, I don't like doing all that maintenance on an ICE
engine, and I don't want to take the darn thing to a mechanic all the
time because the only one I trust to NOT rip me off is my uncle, and
he won't be traveling with me. Plus, messing with oil and fluids and
such isn't my idea of fun.
On Feb 16, 2007, at 12:31 AM, Robert Lemke wrote:
Welcome to the group. I think the Sprinter is a perfect canidate
for what you have in mind. For eff. I would go AC. This will help
you decide http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/motor.htm
I have crunched some numbers. Lio ion are great batteries but
would take a $50 grand investment. I suggest you deal with the
weight and choose AGM batteries. Your Sprinter with its diesel
knocks down 25 mpg, so with an AC motor I would guess around 350
whr/mile. So to have a 75 mile range would require a bank of 27kw/
hr. AGM's would weigh 1900 lbs. In your travels, when you max out
your range pull into an RV park for an overnight stay. This would
top off your dischared batteries overnight. If you have room for
1000 watts in panels and can get 9 hours exposure, then you need 3
days to recharge.
Bob
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi there,
I just joined this list yesterday, and I've considered going electric
for quite some time but only started seriously researching it last
week. I'm not really "into" cars as it were, I just use them to get
from point A to point B, but my uncle's a mechanic with over 30-35
years' experience and has agreed to help me do a conversion, and
although he seemed to be somewhat familiar with the terminology and
other information I've learned from my research, I don't think he's
ever actually done an EV conversion before. But he said he was
willing to help me out, so I have started collecting as many details
as possible. I've found parts suppliers, online instructions from
others who have done their own conversions, and lots of enthusiasm
for EVs in general; I have also, however, found much conflicting
information about what is and isn't possible, along with a lot of
gloom-and-doom nay-sayers who insist none of the effort is worth the
end result. I am convinced this is something I want to do, but I have
to get the logistics worked out and figure out how I can make it work
for my situation. Perhaps some of you could help me.
This message is long; I apologize; I'm very serious about learning
how to do this properly, so I may seem a bit overzealous in my
enthusiasm.
First, do ALL conversions have to be tiny cars? I love the tiny cars
as a rule, but for this application it's not possible. I'm not
looking to convert a behemoth or anything, as I'm just as disgusted
by those as many EV enthusiasts are. The vehicle I'm hoping to
convert is something like a Dodge Sprinter (the short body 118"
version, which is about the length of a mini-van, but I need to get
the high roof version, which measures 73" or 6 ft standing room from
floor to ceiling), and it will be empty when I start except for the
front driver/passenger seats. I won't be loading it up with junk,
just modest camping/office accommodations and I'll be powering all my
electricity-requiring stuff by a solar panel. I need enough power to
propel the vehicle at highway-legal speeds for as long of a range as
possible given the current battery technologies available (perhaps
Lithium-Polymer, as suggested on a site by a guy who outlined his
conversion in detail), but I'm not pre-occupied with any of the
performance-type concerns of sports car people. 55-65 mph would be
plenty, as long as it won't creep like a turtle while going up a
hill. It needs to transport me and my two small lap-size dogs, plus
my gear, which is miniscule compared to most people's standards, and
I'd like to use regenerative braking to help with some of the energy
generation, plus I'd like to connect solar panels (separate from the
one that will run my laptop, etc.), NOT to recharge while driving
necessarily as I've read that doesn't really work all that well, but
instead to recharge on the days I'm NOT driving, such as while
sitting in a national park or campground. So I need to find
instructions on how to actually hook up the batteries to roof-mounted
solar panels rather than stationary panels at a home location. It
will be much lighter overall than a factory-built camper van, as I
will be building the interior myself, sans most of the heavy stuff
they usually stick in those things.
Whew, that was a mouthful. I may have forgotten something, but I'm
sure it'll come out during the course of this discussion.
I'll be fully self-contained for extended periods in this vehicle,
taking photographs, writing essays, and remotely working with my
laptop and wireless card. I will plug into grid power when available,
but I don't want to have to rely on any outside sources during my
travels. I realize that I won't be able to drive every day because
some days will be "charging only" days, and I know I'm not going to
be able to drive for hours and hours without stopping (unless I can
find some feasible batteries that provide more range than what I've
been able to find thus far). Although the vehicle will be for long-
distance travel, it's not like a race or anything. It's for driving a
couple hours, then stopping to work for several hours and take
photographs at various locations during daylight hours then charging
the batteries the next day while working on-site, then heading off
the next day with a full charge. During this time, I'll be doing
multiple things: freelancing, operating a website, and working on a
doctorate, and I plan to travel only where it's not cold (spring/
summer/fall in colder climates, year-round in places with warm
climates). But becoming energy-independent is very important to me
and I am determined to alleviate fossil fuels.
I hope I'm explaining this clearly enough, as I know I can get chatty
and ramble on when I get excited.
I also realize that what I'm proposing will probably draw a lot of
negative responses from people who say it's just not possible, but I
don't care, I'm going to do it anyway, so the more helpful
information I can collect the better. I will find a way to make it
work successfully; it's just non-negotiable. I won't give up until I
figure it out; it's an integral part of my overall mission. If I need
to make certain concessions in some places to make it work, then I'll
consider that once all alternatives have proven ineffective.
Second major issue: I need to figure out the maximum number of
batteries I can put into the thing without it weighing me down so
much that it negates their value. I also would prefer not to blow up,
of course. ;-) From what I've read so far, it appears that for my
application, AC would be better than DC, but correct me if you think
I'm mistaken. I'm wondering if it's possible to mount batteries
underneath the van, as there's extra space not available in a small
car (much like those who convert pickups put batteries in the truck
bed), and how far above the ground do the need to be, etc? What's the
maximum amps each battery can have, as I've found deep-cycle
batteries available up to over 200 amp hours. I'm probably going to
need 12-volt instead of 6-volt, but I could be wrong there too.
How many batteries can go with each controller, motor, etc? Is it
possible to have two separate systems that I can flip a switch
between? For example, to run the vehicle off one set while charging
the other via solar? This may sound silly, but I haven't found any
info yet that specifically says this is impossible, so I have to ask.
I need to be as economical as humanly possible given the parameters I
need to achieve, so any details about how much all this will cost
(except the solar, as I've already found the info I need about that)
and where to get the best deal on the electric conversion parts would
be most appreciated.
OK, I've wasted enough of your time tonight; hopefully I will learn
more about this from all of you.
One last question: Is it possible to receive these messages in digest
format? I only joined yesterday and I've already received nearly 200
individual messages, and my inbox is difficult to navigate as a
result.
If you've actually read this far, thanks a bunch for your time,
Crystal :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well I finally gots mines.
After owning a Comuta Van ex-postal truck for over a year and getting my EV
feet wet, I sold it for a small profit.
It was my intent to convert a Bradley GT II into a GT IIE but I was forced
to reconsider due to a need to haul up to 4 people. The Brad will be sold
today and instead I bought a converted 1974 Beetle and I am stoked.
At last, a real car with better voltage. The batteries are nearly toast but
they were strong enough for a test drive. I've already located replacement
batteries. I'll be buying US batteries after being warned away from some
cheaper brands. It's equipped with a Curtis 1221b controller and I'd like to
upgrade that to a Zilla sometime soon. I'll be asking questions about that a
little later on.
Even with the 72v Comuta Van, I was viabley living the EV life and I'm sure
with this car, my fuel consumption will be even less. I look forward to
learning about the car and making minor improvements in performance and
weight reduction.
Rich A.
Maryland
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Austin Monthly magazine is doing a story on my wife, Heidi and her yellow
NmG, "Tweety". The interview portion was conducted last Wednesday and the
photo shoot is scheduled for today, Friday 2/16/07. The story will appear in
the April issue. Should be some good EV publicity!
Ken
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What are you trying to achieve with this setup?
I guess step 1 would be to simply have an alternative to a contactor
controller. So basically, press the accelerator through its range and get
increasing PWM as the brushes move closer together. Then additionally perhaps
the armature brushes could remain in their relative position against a stop
while the field brushes continued their movement perhaps against some spring
only now reducing the PWM for the field. That could give me the RPMs I would
need.
Regen isn't absolutely required, just desired. However, after a little studying
I have realized that a separate set of brushes through another diode should be
able to provide the regen. I only have to figure out how to provide full field.
Should be able to simply activate a contactor or something when the brake is
pressed and then the brake cable control to slide that other set of brushes.
> Re control with 1 pedal: you mean use an accelerator that gives zero
> acceleration (idle/coast) when half-depressed and gives increasing
> regen when let up; and more acceleration when pushed further down?
That one pedal stuff was only what I had heard how some SepEx controllers work
for forklifts and such. Meaning that it is very stiff and more like an absolute
speed control without the free wheeling. I know now that is when you hook it up
like an H bridge or similar. That is not what I want. I would like the free
wheeling for coasting and then optionally regen only when I press the brake
pedal.
> Or do you intend to run the car backwards when the pedal is let up?
> (do you have a separate Forward/reverse control or is it also
> included in the pedal?)
Heavens, no! I still have the 5 speed manual transmission and clutch for
reverse. I don't need anything so complicated.
I believe it should all work. The only other concern I have is what should
happen in the event that the commutator should stop spinning for whatever
reason. I guess a failsafe circuit of some kind could be put on such that the
main contactor would only activate if it was spinning, either some centrifugal
switch or something electronic sensing the rotation. Perhaps another small
brush running a small transformer or something like that.
Regards,
Chet
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There may be a risk using a FWD suspension for up front without the
halfshats in there. In some of the newer setups the axle comes thru a
bearing cartridge but i think the axle nut is what helps preload the
bearing(so force is distributed on the bearings and not just against the
few on the top.) I haven't checked this out but I do know the 95 grand
am has such a set up and the brakes drag when I go around corners after
wheel bearing and driveshafts were replaced (new repair parts not as
good as original parts :-( )
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What's it like to convert an auto trans S10 to a manual trans S10?
2. what if it is a 4x4. that's even harder, right?,
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, there is www.phoenixmotorcars.com Not quite a full size Chevy truck,
nor $16k, but 100+ mile range and $45k. They are planning on releasing a
200+ mile range one. With the ultra low running costs and long life, it
could be about equal to a cheaper gas truck in TCO. You can't really look at
the purchase price the same way as a gas one. You can look at it as if a big
portion of the purchase price is just paying for all that gas and
maintenance/repairs upfront. There may be quite a few companies who would be
interested in buying it, especially ones that would like to project a green
image.
But, lithium batteries are just too expensive for mass market EVs. It's
doubtful they'll come down in price enough. www.fireflyenergy.com these look
to be the answer for your $16k 100+ mile range truck. I'm watching them.
Speaking of 1000 mile range, for the fun of it:
"Hybrid Technologies is teaming up with Kokam South Korea to build a car
capable of traveling 1000 miles on a single battery charge. The North
Carolina company is opening a facility in Asia to further develop
integration between its electrical management system and Kokam's lithium ion
batteries. The companies are designing a 300 kilowatt hour system that has
10 times the capacity of current battery systems. The two companies are
already providing lithium-powered custom hybrids for Frito Lay."
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/gridable-hybrids/message/2301
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 2:06 AM
Subject: Re: Lithium Technology, Innosys complete electric car conversion
Why do all these companies keep putting similar sized packs in the
vehicles and all get in the low 100 mile range? When will a company
install a monster pack the likes of which we have never seen before
and start breaking some range records? 200 mile range. 300 mile
range... Just for the fun of it, 1,000 mile range per charge? Would
it take a purpose built vehicle to do it? A base to support the
weight and facilitate the bulk. An aerodynamic shell to cover it.
Why couldn't it run 1,000 miles?
Even so, a full size Chevy truck with 100 mile range would absolutely
be a viable and desirable product IF THE PRICE WAS right. No fleet is
going to buy $90,000 pickup trucks. $16,000 is all the market will
bear. A lower price would sell even MORE vehicles. Fleets and
individuals alike. Low cost lithium. I'm sure it exists in OEM bulk
quantities. Maybe bring on some new players to the lithium supply
market?
"In the United States lithium is similarly recovered from brine pools
in Nevada."
"In 1998 it was about US$ 43 per pound ($95 per kg)."
"Chile is currently the leading lithium metal producer in the world,
with Argentina next. Both countries recover the lithium from brine
pools."
"China may emerge as a significant producer of brine-based lithium
carbonate towards the end of this decade. Potential capacity of up to
45,000 tonnes per year could come on-stream if projects in Qinghai
province and Tibet proceed."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Feb 16, 2007, at 12:55 AM, Roderick Wilde wrote:
I have often thought of converting a fairly large motor home. They
can hold a lot of batteries and you could go from RV park to RV
park and the charge for your space includes electricity so you
could plug in and fuel up. The best solution is to invest in a
charger such as the Manzanita Micro PFC 50 charger and do rapid
charges. This way you could do quite a few miles per day when you
wanted to. Here is one of the better FAQs on batteries that I have
come across. You will learn much here: http://www.windsun.com/
Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm
Roderick Wilde
OK, tell me more about this Manzanita Micro charger. How does it
work? Is it like a generator? How long does it take to charge the
batteries with one of these? How big is it and how much does it
weigh? I've never heard of this product.
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 8:52 PM
Subject: First post
Hi there,
I just joined this list yesterday, and I've considered going
electric for quite some time but only started seriously
researching it last week. I'm not really "into" cars as it were,
I just use them to get from point A to point B, but my uncle's a
mechanic with over 30-35 years' experience and has agreed to help
me do a conversion, and although he seemed to be somewhat
familiar with the terminology and other information I've learned
from my research, I don't think he's ever actually done an EV
conversion before. But he said he was willing to help me out, so
I have started collecting as many details as possible. I've found
parts suppliers, online instructions from others who have done
their own conversions, and lots of enthusiasm for EVs in general;
I have also, however, found much conflicting information about
what is and isn't possible, along with a lot of gloom-and-doom
nay-sayers who insist none of the effort is worth the end result.
I am convinced this is something I want to do, but I have to get
the logistics worked out and figure out how I can make it work
for my situation. Perhaps some of you could help me.
This message is long; I apologize; I'm very serious about
learning how to do this properly, so I may seem a bit overzealous
in my enthusiasm.
First, do ALL conversions have to be tiny cars? I love the tiny
cars as a rule, but for this application it's not possible. I'm
not looking to convert a behemoth or anything, as I'm just as
disgusted by those as many EV enthusiasts are. The vehicle I'm
hoping to convert is something like a Dodge Sprinter (the short
body 118" version, which is about the length of a mini-van, but I
need to get the high roof version, which measures 73" or 6 ft
standing room from floor to ceiling), and it will be empty when I
start except for the front driver/passenger seats. I won't be
loading it up with junk, just modest camping/office
accommodations and I'll be powering all my electricity-requiring
stuff by a solar panel. I need enough power to propel the vehicle
at highway-legal speeds for as long of a range as possible given
the current battery technologies available (perhaps Lithium-
Polymer, as suggested on a site by a guy who outlined his
conversion in detail), but I'm not pre-occupied with any of the
performance-type concerns of sports car people. 55-65 mph would be
plenty, as long as it won't creep like a turtle while going up a
hill. It needs to transport me and my two small lap-size dogs,
plus my gear, which is miniscule compared to most people's
standards, and I'd like to use regenerative braking to help with
some of the energy generation, plus I'd like to connect solar
panels (separate from the one that will run my laptop, etc.), NOT
to recharge while driving necessarily as I've read that doesn't
really work all that well, but instead to recharge on the days
I'm NOT driving, such as while sitting in a national park or
campground. So I need to find instructions on how to actually
hook up the batteries to roof-mounted solar panels rather than
stationary panels at a home location. It will be much lighter
overall than a factory-built camper van, as I will be building
the interior myself, sans most of the heavy stuff they usually
stick in those things.
Whew, that was a mouthful. I may have forgotten something, but
I'm sure it'll come out during the course of this discussion.
I'll be fully self-contained for extended periods in this
vehicle, taking photographs, writing essays, and remotely working
with my laptop and wireless card. I will plug into grid power
when available, but I don't want to have to rely on any outside
sources during my travels. I realize that I won't be able to
drive every day because some days will be "charging only" days,
and I know I'm not going to be able to drive for hours and hours
without stopping (unless I can find some feasible batteries that
provide more range than what I've been able to find thus far).
Although the vehicle will be for long- distance travel, it's not
like a race or anything. It's for driving a couple hours, then
stopping to work for several hours and take photographs at
various locations during daylight hours then charging the
batteries the next day while working on-site, then heading off
the next day with a full charge. During this time, I'll be doing
multiple things: freelancing, operating a website, and working on
a doctorate, and I plan to travel only where it's not cold
(spring/ summer/fall in colder climates, year-round in places with
warm climates). But becoming energy-independent is very important
to me and I am determined to alleviate fossil fuels.
I hope I'm explaining this clearly enough, as I know I can get
chatty and ramble on when I get excited.
I also realize that what I'm proposing will probably draw a lot of
negative responses from people who say it's just not possible, but
I don't care, I'm going to do it anyway, so the more helpful
information I can collect the better. I will find a way to make
it work successfully; it's just non-negotiable. I won't give up
until I figure it out; it's an integral part of my overall
mission. If I need to make certain concessions in some places to
make it work, then I'll consider that once all alternatives have
proven ineffective.
Second major issue: I need to figure out the maximum number of
batteries I can put into the thing without it weighing me down so
much that it negates their value. I also would prefer not to blow
up, of course. ;-) From what I've read so far, it appears that
for my application, AC would be better than DC, but correct me if
you think I'm mistaken. I'm wondering if it's possible to mount
batteries underneath the van, as there's extra space not
available in a small car (much like those who convert pickups put
batteries in the truck bed), and how far above the ground do the
need to be, etc? What's the maximum amps each battery can have,
as I've found deep-cycle batteries available up to over 200 amp
hours. I'm probably going to need 12-volt instead of 6-volt, but
I could be wrong there too.
How many batteries can go with each controller, motor, etc? Is it
possible to have two separate systems that I can flip a switch
between? For example, to run the vehicle off one set while
charging the other via solar? This may sound silly, but I haven't
found any info yet that specifically says this is impossible, so
I have to ask.
I need to be as economical as humanly possible given the
parameters I need to achieve, so any details about how much all
this will cost (except the solar, as I've already found the info
I need about that) and where to get the best deal on the electric
conversion parts would be most appreciated.
OK, I've wasted enough of your time tonight; hopefully I will
learn more about this from all of you.
One last question: Is it possible to receive these messages in
digest format? I only joined yesterday and I've already received
nearly 200 individual messages, and my inbox is difficult to
navigate as a result.
If you've actually read this far, thanks a bunch for your time,
Crystal :-)
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.39/687 - Release Date:
2/14/2007
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.39/687 - Release Date:
2/14/2007
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Crystal, never under estimate the power of google.
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/
Also read the archives on yahoo (link below), lots of people use these
chargers (including me). All your questions will be answered with a little
searching and reading.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
---------------------------------------------------
See the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Check the EVDL Archives: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
Check out the EV Photo Album: www.evalbum.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: February 16, 2007 9:13 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: First post
On Feb 16, 2007, at 12:55 AM, Roderick Wilde wrote:
> I have often thought of converting a fairly large motor home. They can
> hold a lot of batteries and you could go from RV park to RV park and
> the charge for your space includes electricity so you could plug in
> and fuel up. The best solution is to invest in a charger such as the
> Manzanita Micro PFC 50 charger and do rapid charges. This way you
> could do quite a few miles per day when you wanted to. Here is one of
> the better FAQs on batteries that I have come across. You will learn
> much here: http://www.windsun.com/ Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm
> Roderick Wilde
>
OK, tell me more about this Manzanita Micro charger. How does it work? Is it
like a generator? How long does it take to charge the batteries with one of
these? How big is it and how much does it weigh? I've never heard of this
product.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 8:52 PM
> Subject: First post
>
>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I just joined this list yesterday, and I've considered going electric
>> for quite some time but only started seriously researching it last
>> week. I'm not really "into" cars as it were, I just use them to get
>> from point A to point B, but my uncle's a mechanic with over 30-35
>> years' experience and has agreed to help me do a conversion, and
>> although he seemed to be somewhat familiar with the terminology and
>> other information I've learned from my research, I don't think he's
>> ever actually done an EV conversion before. But he said he was
>> willing to help me out, so I have started collecting as many details
>> as possible. I've found parts suppliers, online instructions from
>> others who have done their own conversions, and lots of enthusiasm
>> for EVs in general; I have also, however, found much conflicting
>> information about what is and isn't possible, along with a lot of
>> gloom-and-doom nay-sayers who insist none of the effort is worth the
>> end result.
>> I am convinced this is something I want to do, but I have to get
>> the logistics worked out and figure out how I can make it work
>> for my situation. Perhaps some of you could help me.
>>
>> This message is long; I apologize; I'm very serious about learning
>> how to do this properly, so I may seem a bit overzealous in my
>> enthusiasm.
>>
>> First, do ALL conversions have to be tiny cars? I love the tiny cars
>> as a rule, but for this application it's not possible. I'm not
>> looking to convert a behemoth or anything, as I'm just as disgusted
>> by those as many EV enthusiasts are. The vehicle I'm hoping to
>> convert is something like a Dodge Sprinter (the short body 118"
>> version, which is about the length of a mini-van, but I need to get
>> the high roof version, which measures 73" or 6 ft standing room from
>> floor to ceiling), and it will be empty when I start except for the
>> front driver/passenger seats. I won't be loading it up with junk,
>> just modest camping/office accommodations and I'll be powering all my
>> electricity-requiring stuff by a solar panel. I need enough power to
>> propel the vehicle at highway-legal speeds for as long of a range as
>> possible given the current battery technologies available (perhaps
>> Lithium-
>> Polymer, as suggested on a site by a guy who outlined his
>> conversion in detail), but I'm not pre-occupied with any of the
>> performance-type concerns of sports car people. 55-65 mph would be
>> plenty, as long as it won't creep like a turtle while going up a
>> hill. It needs to transport me and my two small lap-size dogs, plus
>> my gear, which is miniscule compared to most people's standards, and
>> I'd like to use regenerative braking to help with some of the energy
>> generation, plus I'd like to connect solar panels (separate from the
>> one that will run my laptop, etc.), NOT to recharge while driving
>> necessarily as I've read that doesn't really work all that well, but
>> instead to recharge on the days I'm NOT driving, such as while
>> sitting in a national park or campground. So I need to find
>> instructions on how to actually hook up the batteries to roof-mounted
>> solar panels rather than stationary panels at a home location. It
>> will be much lighter overall than a factory-built camper van, as I
>> will be building the interior myself, sans most of the heavy stuff
>> they usually stick in those things.
>>
>> Whew, that was a mouthful. I may have forgotten something, but I'm
>> sure it'll come out during the course of this discussion.
>>
>> I'll be fully self-contained for extended periods in this vehicle,
>> taking photographs, writing essays, and remotely working with my
>> laptop and wireless card. I will plug into grid power when available,
>> but I don't want to have to rely on any outside sources during my
>> travels. I realize that I won't be able to drive every day because
>> some days will be "charging only" days, and I know I'm not going to
>> be able to drive for hours and hours without stopping (unless I can
>> find some feasible batteries that provide more range than what I've
>> been able to find thus far).
>> Although the vehicle will be for long- distance travel, it's not like
>> a race or anything. It's for driving a couple hours, then stopping
>> to work for several hours and take photographs at various locations
>> during daylight hours then charging the
>> batteries the next day while working on-site, then heading off
>> the next day with a full charge. During this time, I'll be doing
>> multiple things: freelancing, operating a website, and working on a
>> doctorate, and I plan to travel only where it's not cold (spring/
>> summer/fall in colder climates, year-round in places with warm
>> climates). But becoming energy-independent is very important to me
>> and I am determined to alleviate fossil fuels.
>>
>> I hope I'm explaining this clearly enough, as I know I can get chatty
>> and ramble on when I get excited.
>>
>> I also realize that what I'm proposing will probably draw a lot of
>> negative responses from people who say it's just not possible, but
>> I don't care, I'm going to do it anyway, so the more helpful
>> information I can collect the better. I will find a way to make it
>> work successfully; it's just non-negotiable. I won't give up until I
>> figure it out; it's an integral part of my overall mission. If I need
>> to make certain concessions in some places to make it work, then I'll
>> consider that once all alternatives have proven ineffective.
>>
>> Second major issue: I need to figure out the maximum number of
>> batteries I can put into the thing without it weighing me down so
>> much that it negates their value. I also would prefer not to blow up,
>> of course. ;-) From what I've read so far, it appears that for my
>> application, AC would be better than DC, but correct me if you think
>> I'm mistaken. I'm wondering if it's possible to mount batteries
>> underneath the van, as there's extra space not available in a small
>> car (much like those who convert pickups put batteries in the truck
>> bed), and how far above the ground do the need to be, etc? What's the
>> maximum amps each battery can have, as I've found deep-cycle
>> batteries available up to over 200 amp hours. I'm probably going to
>> need 12-volt instead of 6-volt, but I could be wrong there too.
>>
>> How many batteries can go with each controller, motor, etc? Is it
>> possible to have two separate systems that I can flip a switch
>> between? For example, to run the vehicle off one set while charging
>> the other via solar? This may sound silly, but I haven't found any
>> info yet that specifically says this is impossible, so I have to ask.
>>
>> I need to be as economical as humanly possible given the parameters I
>> need to achieve, so any details about how much all this will cost
>> (except the solar, as I've already found the info I need about that)
>> and where to get the best deal on the electric conversion parts would
>> be most appreciated.
>>
>> OK, I've wasted enough of your time tonight; hopefully I will learn
>> more about this from all of you.
>>
>> One last question: Is it possible to receive these messages in digest
>> format? I only joined yesterday and I've already received nearly 200
>> individual messages, and my inbox is difficult to navigate as a
>> result.
>>
>> If you've actually read this far, thanks a bunch for your time,
>>
>> Crystal :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.39/687 - Release Date:
>> 2/14/2007
>>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.39/687 - Release Date:
> 2/14/2007
>
--- End Message ---
