EV Digest 6426
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Wiring up a Kostov...
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Front Suspension, was RE: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Cost to drive a EV
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Dc/DC Converter
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: First post
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Commutator Controller
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: First post
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Wiring up a Kostov...
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: First post
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Andrew,
Normally the four post are label S1 and S2 for the fields and A1 and A2 for
the commentator.
If they are label, than try connecting S2 to A1 and connecting 12 volts to
S1 and to A2. If the motor rotates in the wrong direction than just connect
the S2 to A2 which will reversed the rotation.
If the terminals are not label, then connect a ohm meter to two of the
terminals. If there is no resistance reading on the ohm meter, than keep
changing the leads around until you read a resistance. You may be on the
field windings or commentator windings.
To find out if you are on the field or commentator windings, just rotate the
motor shaft by hand, and it the resistance does not change, than you are on
the field windings.
Connect the ohm meter to the other two terminals, and if the resistance
varies when rotating the armature, than you are on the commentator windings.
Mark the commentator windings A1 and A2 and field windings S1 and S2. It
does not make a difference which end of the field or commentator windings
are mark at the motor terminals. You have to test out the connections for
the correct rotation anyway.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 9:52 AM
Subject: Wiring up a Kostov...
> Hi,
>
> I have a really dumb question.
>
> I was just wondering how I go about hooking up a
> Kostov ET12114.4150 (9" dia., 144v, series wound).
> It's got the four connections on top, and I know that
> two of these have to be connected to each other and
> the other two are positive and negative. I just don't
> know which is which. Any thoughts on that?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
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>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
> Good point, actually without the halfshaft and CV, there may
> be no axle stub at all.
No, not at all. For many vehicles it is the stub axle that the brake
rotor/wheel mount to, so the assumption was that the stub axle would
remain and the outer CV and everything inboard of it would be removed.
This was the basis of Cor's concern, because removal of these unneeded
bits would, in some cases, require disassembly of the outer CV joint and
would leave part of the CV joint "guts" exposed and spinning on the
inboard end of the stub axle unless cut off.
I think that all Jeff is really adding to the discussion is that
depending on the particular vehicle it may be an option to leave out the
stub axle along with the rest of the halfshaft, or it may be essential
to retain the stub axle even if this means having to cut it free of the
outer CV joint.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor,
You bring up some interesting points. One aspect that I am uncomfortable
about when using buddy pairs is that I can't 'see' each battery's voltage.
But in theory this doesn't matter because the two batteries are now
treated as one.
In your description of 'soft-linking', are the two strings always connected
at the ends? Are the 'soft-links' thin wires from each positive and
negative terminal in a battery to the corresponding terminals on its mate,
or do you only connect positive terminals?
My pack layout keeps both batteries in any given pair in the same insulated
box, so they're likely close in temperature to begin with.
While charging, when one battery is drawing more current than its mate,
it might warm up some, but the voltage would try to rise with the SOC (in
spite of the negative temp coefficient). That would cause this battery
to draw less current and not warm up any more.
If there is a problem with one battery in a pair, the other battery in
that pair is likely to be destroyed as well. But the rest of the pack
would be intact. Even if one battery developed a shorted cell, the
other battery would discharge into it until they are at the same voltage.
You mention that "there is an unexpected high percentage with buddy-paired
batteries". I wasn't aware that there were more failures in buddy-paired
packs than other packs. I know of two successful buddy-paired vehicles
(Al Godfrey's 914 and John Wayland's Red Beastie). I also know of three
buddy-paired vehicles (one was my original conversion) that have had
short-lived packs, but these failures were due to either lack of battery
management and/or poor charging.
I'd like to learn more about the high rate of buddy-pair failures. Can
you post more information about these?
Ralph
Cor van de Water writes:
>
> Ralph,
>
> You describe the perfect world, where everything is in equilibrium and what
> is not will move there.
> Now consider that some technologies will drop in voltage when the battery
> heats up.
> This is the opposite of equilibrium:
> - if one battery happens to have a lower resistance or lower SOC then it
> gets more current
> - due to the higher current, it warms up more than the buddy pair and gets
> even more current
> - this can lead to a runaway situation, where one battery hogs all current
> (on charge as well
> as on discharge!) so there effectively is no buddy pairing, it is one
> effective battery,
> but the current limit and expected capacity are for the buddy pair, so not
> only does the
> good battery get hit with double current, it will also be run down to
> empty when you
> think that you are using 50% DOD.
>
> Now I am not even addressing faults like a short in one cell or a different
> temperature to start with and other failures that batteries can develop and
> which are potential fatal in typical un-fused buddy pairs.
> Let the evidence be clear that of the few EVs that ever self-destructed
> (fire), there is an unexpected high percentage with buddy-paired batteries.
> One such occurrence was the Porsche Flambe' of Michael Bearden, who had his
> car parked outside his garage and was not charging it due to circumstances,
> normally he would have lost his garage with other EVs (Goggomobile 36Volts)
> and all his tools and equipment.
>
> One way that you can make safer buddy-pairs is by 'soft-linking' them.
> Build two series strings with heavy duty cable.
> Then use thin cable (preferably with simple automotive fuses) to wire the
> pairs of battery-connecting cable together, this will give the wanted
> buddy-pairing with voltage equalization but will avoid any high currents in
> case of malfunction of one of the buddy-pairs. Battery regulators should
> still be OK with only one per pair as typical currents through regulators
> are small. They should also tell when one battery develops a problem and the
> voltage gets too high or too low too soon.
>
> Regards,
> Cor.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Ralph Merwin
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:46 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Cost to drive a EV
>
>
> Jody,
>
> >From what I've read, batteries in parallel like this work a bit
> >differently
> than what you describe. When the pair is being charged, the one at a lower
> state of charge will take more of the current. As its SOC increases and its
> voltage tries to increase, it takes less of the charge current. The voltage
> of the battery with a higher SOC cannot get significantly higher than its
> mate.
>
> Now the other battery takes more of the current until its SOC increases.
> They continue like this until fully charged.
>
> The reverse happens on discharge.
>
> I haven't actually measured the currents going thru a pair to verify this.
> Someday...
>
> Ralph
>
>
> Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G writes:
> >
> > Also, when the batteries charge and discharge since they are
> > chemically different and their internal resistance is not the same
> > they will react differently. One will always take a charge faster and
> > so it will cook while the other catches up. If the weaker doesn't get
> > the full charge before the charger cuts off it will go deeper than the
> > other or the stronger battery will charge it up and equalize costing
> > power. With regulators across the pair you will still have the same
> > problem. The regulator will not cut the current off to the stronger
> > battery so the weaker can get more charge. Believe me - there will
> > always be a weaker and a stronger battery in a buddy pair. As the
> > batteries age the difference will become greater and eventually the
> > buddy pair will kill both batteries. I would really recommend
> > separating the buddy pairs into strings of series batteries that can
> > be connected in parallel during use or charging. That way your pack
> > won't prematurely kill itself. I would hate to see your batteries die a
> year or so early.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > On Behalf Of David Roden
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 0:26
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: Cost to drive a EV
> >
> > On 13 Feb 2007 at 20:50, Ralph Merwin wrote:
> >
> > > An
> > > islator is not required because both batteries are getting the same
> > > discharge and charge cycles.
> >
> > I'm not so sure. If a battery develops a shorted cell, its partner
> > will empty itself trying to charge it. I even had this happen with
> > two parallel 96v strings once.
> >
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EV List Administrator
> >
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> > to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
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> > webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That can work, for the max voltage - see the specs on the website.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Daniel Eyk
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 9:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Dc/DC Converter
Cor, I am planning on using a 144 volt pack on my commuter S-10. Am thinking
about another project later with higher voltage. Dan Eyk
Daniel Eyk
Vancouver, Wa.
Electric S-10 project
E-15 project
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Crystal,
Northern California is large, but if you are near San Francisco than you
will find at least 5 local EAA (Electric Auto Association) chapters around
the Bay Area. My direct involvement with EVs got really started after
attending the Palo Alto EV rally and show and visiting the local chapters
meeting in Palo Alto and San Jose.
Another hot EV area seems to be around Portland.
Welcome to the Left Coast!
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 7:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: First post
I am currently in Iowa, where I grew up, but once I leave again, I'll
probably be spending most of my time in Northern California and/or Pacific
Northwest areas, at least for the next few years.
On Feb 15, 2007, at 11:39 PM, Mike Willmon wrote:
> Crystal,
>
> BTW, where in this world of ours are you located?
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chet,
It escapes me how you can control a motor by moving brushes closer together.
As far as I know, the brushes are at opposite sides to send current through
one winding at a time, during the time of overlap of two comm bars the
current goes through two windings, one ramping up and the leaving comm bar
should have a decaying current, otherwise you get severe arcing.
Do you intend to move one of the brushes over the distance of one comm bar,
so it is not exactly opposite its peer and the current cannot flow for part
of that comm bar contacting the non-moving brush?
I am no motor expert, but I would expect that you get significant arcing as
long as the brush is not in its proper position, so I am not sure if this is
a good strategy to use.
If you want to engage the main contactor only if the comm is spinning you
probably have a catch 22, because how does the comm start spinning?
Why do you want to avoid brush movement when the comm is not rotating?
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chet Fields
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 8:35 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Commutator Controller
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What are you trying to achieve with this setup?
I guess step 1 would be to simply have an alternative to a contactor
controller. So basically, press the accelerator through its range and get
increasing PWM as the brushes move closer together. Then additionally
perhaps the armature brushes could remain in their relative position against
a stop while the field brushes continued their movement perhaps against some
spring only now reducing the PWM for the field. That could give me the RPMs
I would need.
Regen isn't absolutely required, just desired. However, after a little
studying I have realized that a separate set of brushes through another
diode should be able to provide the regen. I only have to figure out how to
provide full field.
Should be able to simply activate a contactor or something when the brake is
pressed and then the brake cable control to slide that other set of brushes.
> Re control with 1 pedal: you mean use an accelerator that gives zero
> acceleration (idle/coast) when half-depressed and gives increasing
> regen when let up; and more acceleration when pushed further down?
That one pedal stuff was only what I had heard how some SepEx controllers
work for forklifts and such. Meaning that it is very stiff and more like an
absolute speed control without the free wheeling. I know now that is when
you hook it up like an H bridge or similar. That is not what I want. I would
like the free wheeling for coasting and then optionally regen only when I
press the brake pedal.
> Or do you intend to run the car backwards when the pedal is let up?
> (do you have a separate Forward/reverse control or is it also included
> in the pedal?)
Heavens, no! I still have the 5 speed manual transmission and clutch for
reverse. I don't need anything so complicated.
I believe it should all work. The only other concern I have is what should
happen in the event that the commutator should stop spinning for whatever
reason. I guess a failsafe circuit of some kind could be put on such that
the main contactor would only activate if it was spinning, either some
centrifugal switch or something electronic sensing the rotation. Perhaps
another small brush running a small transformer or something like that.
Regards,
Chet
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Correct,
Solar panels live long. They are often guaranteed to deliver 90% of their
rated output for 20 years, check the data from the manufacturer you like.
Solar panel output goes by the surface area, so to get twice the output you
need twice the size of silicon.
Marine batteries are not very good at deep cycle life, but indeed you should
look for either AGM or gel batteries. (AGM can deliver higher currents and
take the high currents of a regen brake with stride, gels are more demanding
in keeping the charge currents under control but can live somewhat longer
than AGM. They usually are a bit more expensive than AGMs)
Whichever battery technology, make sure it is a deep cycle type!
Solar panels can be re-used as their life is so long and their value high.
If the roof area is not sufficient then you can consider solar panels on a
separate support.
Could be attached to the van, or free-standing.
Due to the price of solar, you may need to start with more relying on
plug-in.
Minimum price of solar panels is $4 per watt, so if you need 1000W that
costs over $4000 for the panels alone.
You will need some electronics to charge the battery, although if you
configure the panels in a smart way then the same charger that you plug in
may also be able to work from the solar panels, depending on how it works
internally. To achieve maximum output from the panels thay need to be loaded
near their MPP (Max Power Point) which is a "crossover" point between
voltage and current delivered by the panel and looks like a sideways view of
the leg of someone sitting on a chair: the upper part of the leg represents
the section where voltage slowly drops of while current increases up to the
maximum power output, where the "knee" is located, after that the lower part
of the leg represents the part where voltage drops quickly when current
slowly rises a little bit. You want to stay in the "knee", so solar
equipment is designed to operate either at a fixed voltage near this point
or to "seek" this point by measuring the open circuit voltage and
multiplying that by a factor, usually 0.7
Now a typical EV charger knows nothing of this all, so either you need a
modified charger or careful configure your panels to match the charger or
accept that the solar power is not used in an optimal way - which would be a
waste since the panels are so expensive.
A dedicated solar charger is usually configured for 12; 24 or 48V operation.
Too low for a typical EV. Either you need to switch battery configuration or
use a dedicated charger.
If you use a charger with PFC (Power Factor Correction) then that is not
going to work for direct solar input, because it has a negative resistance
characteristic, so it will always move away from the "knee" point.
Also a charger with a 60 Hz transformer will not work, because solar panels
make DC, not AC.
If you can find a good charger that specifies that it can be supplied with
DC and is not PFC or if you can get an old charger that can be opened
without voiding warranty (because it does not have any) and you plug your
solar input straight into the section that regulates the battery charging,
then that may work.
Alternative is a dedicated charger, which can be as simple as a big diode
from the panels to the batteries and a circuit to compare battery voltage to
a max threshold and if it gets over the threshold, then to short-circuit the
solar panels with a power FET. Solar panels are OK being short-circuited, as
they have a "current source" characteristic - the current is depending on
the amount of light and does not increase when shorted.
BTW, typical solar panel size for a certain wattage can be calculated from
their efficiency (around 12%) and the solar irradiation which is up to 100W
per square feet. 2' x 4' would yield about 100W power with this efficiency,
though there are better quality panels with higher efficiency and price.
Hope this helps,
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 8:12 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: First post
OK, this is very helpful; thank you. OK, so Li-Io are out of the question,
at least for the next few years until the prices fall from the stratosphere.
My second choice would have been the Deep-Cycle Gel batteries like the kind
typically used in marine applications, and it seems this is what you're
suggesting. It would be great if I could use the maintenance-free enclosed
type instead of having to remember to add water, but I guess if need be I
could always remind myself in iCal.
Charging in an RV park or public campground (less expensive than RV parks
these days it seems) sounds like a good idea for most days-what about rest
stops? Do they have AC outlets at any of those? Would it ever be possible to
run a long cord from the vehicle to an outlet in the restroom of the
building? Saving money anywhere I can will help a lot.
A 125-watt solar panel is approximately 24"x48" right? So, 1000 watts would
need about 8 panels and would take up, say 16'?? I think a Sprinter is only
about 10' long. Are larger wattage panels only slightly larger in
dimensions? Would it be better to have a whole bunch of smaller-watt panels
strung together or a few much larger panels? Does it really matter? I should
be able to maintain my entire interior arsenal with only one solar panel,
and I may get one I can carry with me in a backpack (foldable) to operate my
laptop and accessories. In any case, I obviously won't be able to afford to
get all of the panels straightaway; I'll have to start out with plug-in
charging for the most part. Solar panels have a long lifespan, don't they?
I'm hoping they could be an investment that eventually I'll uninstall from
the vehicle and install elsewhere after I'm done with the van; is this
possible, or would I have to replace the panels nearly as often as the
batteries?
I don't want to have to resort to diesel/electric hybrid, but I guess if I
can find no other viable solutions, I might have to consider it.
Is it any more difficult to do a hybrid conversion than an all- electric
one? See, I don't like doing all that maintenance on an ICE engine, and I
don't want to take the darn thing to a mechanic all the time because the
only one I trust to NOT rip me off is my uncle, and he won't be traveling
with me. Plus, messing with oil and fluids and such isn't my idea of fun.
On Feb 16, 2007, at 12:31 AM, Robert Lemke wrote:
> Welcome to the group. I think the Sprinter is a perfect canidate for
> what you have in mind. For eff. I would go AC. This will help
> you decide http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/motor.htm
>
> I have crunched some numbers. Lio ion are great batteries but would
> take a $50 grand investment. I suggest you deal with the weight and
> choose AGM batteries. Your Sprinter with its diesel knocks down 25
> mpg, so with an AC motor I would guess around 350 whr/mile. So to have
> a 75 mile range would require a bank of 27kw/ hr. AGM's would weigh
> 1900 lbs. In your travels, when you max out your range pull into an RV
> park for an overnight stay. This would top off your dischared
> batteries overnight. If you have room for 1000 watts in panels and can
> get 9 hours exposure, then you need 3 days to recharge.
>
> Bob
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I just joined this list yesterday, and I've considered going electric
> for quite some time but only started seriously researching it last
> week. I'm not really "into" cars as it were, I just use them to get
> from point A to point B, but my uncle's a mechanic with over 30-35
> years' experience and has agreed to help me do a conversion, and
> although he seemed to be somewhat familiar with the terminology and
> other information I've learned from my research, I don't think he's
> ever actually done an EV conversion before. But he said he was willing
> to help me out, so I have started collecting as many details as
> possible. I've found parts suppliers, online instructions from others
> who have done their own conversions, and lots of enthusiasm for EVs in
> general; I have also, however, found much conflicting information
> about what is and isn't possible, along with a lot of gloom-and-doom
> nay-sayers who insist none of the effort is worth the end result. I am
> convinced this is something I want to do, but I have to get the
> logistics worked out and figure out how I can make it work for my
> situation. Perhaps some of you could help me.
>
> This message is long; I apologize; I'm very serious about learning how
> to do this properly, so I may seem a bit overzealous in my enthusiasm.
>
> First, do ALL conversions have to be tiny cars? I love the tiny cars
> as a rule, but for this application it's not possible. I'm not looking
> to convert a behemoth or anything, as I'm just as disgusted by those
> as many EV enthusiasts are. The vehicle I'm hoping to convert is
> something like a Dodge Sprinter (the short body 118"
> version, which is about the length of a mini-van, but I need to get
> the high roof version, which measures 73" or 6 ft standing room from
> floor to ceiling), and it will be empty when I start except for the
> front driver/passenger seats. I won't be loading it up with junk, just
> modest camping/office accommodations and I'll be powering all my
> electricity-requiring stuff by a solar panel. I need enough power to
> propel the vehicle at highway-legal speeds for as long of a range as
> possible given the current battery technologies available (perhaps
> Lithium-Polymer, as suggested on a site by a guy who outlined his
> conversion in detail), but I'm not pre-occupied with any of the
> performance-type concerns of sports car people. 55-65 mph would be
> plenty, as long as it won't creep like a turtle while going up a hill.
> It needs to transport me and my two small lap-size dogs, plus my gear,
> which is miniscule compared to most people's standards, and I'd like
> to use regenerative braking to help with some of the energy
> generation, plus I'd like to connect solar panels (separate from the
> one that will run my laptop, etc.), NOT to recharge while driving
> necessarily as I've read that doesn't really work all that well, but
> instead to recharge on the days I'm NOT driving, such as while sitting
> in a national park or campground. So I need to find instructions on
> how to actually hook up the batteries to roof-mounted solar panels
> rather than stationary panels at a home location. It will be much
> lighter overall than a factory-built camper van, as I will be building
> the interior myself, sans most of the heavy stuff they usually stick
> in those things.
>
> Whew, that was a mouthful. I may have forgotten something, but I'm
> sure it'll come out during the course of this discussion.
>
> I'll be fully self-contained for extended periods in this vehicle,
> taking photographs, writing essays, and remotely working with my
> laptop and wireless card. I will plug into grid power when available,
> but I don't want to have to rely on any outside sources during my
> travels. I realize that I won't be able to drive every day because
> some days will be "charging only" days, and I know I'm not going to be
> able to drive for hours and hours without stopping (unless I can find
> some feasible batteries that provide more range than what I've been
> able to find thus far). Although the vehicle will be for long-
> distance travel, it's not like a race or anything. It's for driving a
> couple hours, then stopping to work for several hours and take
> photographs at various locations during daylight hours then charging
> the batteries the next day while working on-site, then heading off the
> next day with a full charge. During this time, I'll be doing multiple
> things: freelancing, operating a website, and working on a doctorate,
> and I plan to travel only where it's not cold (spring/ summer/fall in
> colder climates, year-round in places with warm climates). But
> becoming energy-independent is very important to me and I am
> determined to alleviate fossil fuels.
>
> I hope I'm explaining this clearly enough, as I know I can get chatty
> and ramble on when I get excited.
>
> I also realize that what I'm proposing will probably draw a lot of
> negative responses from people who say it's just not possible, but I
> don't care, I'm going to do it anyway, so the more helpful information
> I can collect the better. I will find a way to make it work
> successfully; it's just non-negotiable. I won't give up until I figure
> it out; it's an integral part of my overall mission. If I need to make
> certain concessions in some places to make it work, then I'll consider
> that once all alternatives have proven ineffective.
>
> Second major issue: I need to figure out the maximum number of
> batteries I can put into the thing without it weighing me down so much
> that it negates their value. I also would prefer not to blow up, of
> course. ;-) From what I've read so far, it appears that for my
> application, AC would be better than DC, but correct me if you think
> I'm mistaken. I'm wondering if it's possible to mount batteries
> underneath the van, as there's extra space not available in a small
> car (much like those who convert pickups put batteries in the truck
> bed), and how far above the ground do the need to be, etc? What's the
> maximum amps each battery can have, as I've found deep-cycle batteries
> available up to over 200 amp hours. I'm probably going to need 12-volt
> instead of 6-volt, but I could be wrong there too.
>
> How many batteries can go with each controller, motor, etc? Is it
> possible to have two separate systems that I can flip a switch
> between? For example, to run the vehicle off one set while charging
> the other via solar? This may sound silly, but I haven't found any
> info yet that specifically says this is impossible, so I have to ask.
>
> I need to be as economical as humanly possible given the parameters I
> need to achieve, so any details about how much all this will cost
> (except the solar, as I've already found the info I need about that)
> and where to get the best deal on the electric conversion parts would
> be most appreciated.
>
> OK, I've wasted enough of your time tonight; hopefully I will learn
> more about this from all of you.
>
> One last question: Is it possible to receive these messages in digest
> format? I only joined yesterday and I've already received nearly 200
> individual messages, and my inbox is difficult to navigate as a
> result.
>
> If you've actually read this far, thanks a bunch for your time,
>
> Crystal :-)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The easy way is to look for markings or drawings of it.
A1, A2 and F1, F2 are common for Armature and Field windings.
If you can't find it then use a meter or a 12V lamp and battery to
see which terminal is connected to which other one.
Connect one Armature winding to one Field winding and use
the other two to test it on a 12V battery.
If it runs the wrong direction then swap either the Field
or the Armature connections so it will run the other way.
(If you swap both, it will still run the same direction,
just like it does not help to swap the battery polarity)
Success,
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andrew A.
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 8:53 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Wiring up a Kostov...
Hi,
I have a really dumb question.
I was just wondering how I go about hooking up a Kostov ET12114.4150 (9"
dia., 144v, series wound).
It's got the four connections on top, and I know that two of these have to
be connected to each other and the other two are positive and negative. I
just don't know which is which. Any thoughts on that?
Thanks!
Andrew
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Crystal,
You are confusing bio-diesel (which is used exactly like normal diesel) with
the use of straight vegetable oil in a diesel engine.
The latter means you can go into any grocery store, buy a gallon of
vegetable oil, pour it in the tank and drive away - if the temp is high
enough.
If the veg oil is too cold, then the engine cannot inject it properly and
won't run on it.
BTW, most people prefer to run on *used* vegetable oil, so they are not
adding to the consumption.
If you search Craigslist for free veg oil, you will find several offers most
of the time, though you are expected to pick it up and quantities vary.
Bio-diesel can be home-made from veg oil, though it is not a clean process.
Luckily you get lots of soap in the process ;-)
Most people buy bio-diesel at the pumps that offer it.
HomePower magazine (and I am sure others) did several specials on the
"veggie van" and on how to make your own bio-diesel from veg oil.
Hope this clarifies,
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Crystal Silver
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 11:29 AM
To: chris lewis
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: First post
All the stuff I've read about bio-diesel operation sounds complicated
- like having to run the diesel motor with gasoline first then turning over
to the "grease" power after the engine is warmed up, and stuff like
that...then carrying the veggie oils in the trunk and doing filtering every
time...are there instructions somewhere that make it as simple as what
you've made it sound? And will my vehicle constantly wreak of french fries?
I've also read that some places in the U.S. are getting wind of this and are
starting to charge people to take their used grease. I'm not sure how
prevalent this practice is, but sounds like something they'd try to profit
from here. Does bio diesel require changing the oil the same as regular
gasoline? Is everything else the same as operating a regular guzzle-mobile?
I do know that diesel engines were originally designed for this purpose, but
I have never actually gone through the process of figuring out how to
implement it myself. But I did see one of Morgan Spurlock's programs one
time where they were filming at the Dancing Rabbit eco-village (in
Missouri?), and all the steps they had to go through just to make their
vehicle operate seemed a bit counter- productive. Just getting a fill-up
seemed to be an all-day ordeal.
I am interested in hearing more about this, however, as the more efficiently
and inexpensively (and quickly) I can get up-and-running the better.
Thanks for the info.
On Feb 16, 2007, at 1:05 PM, chris lewis wrote:
> From reading your requirements and the environment you'll be in ie;
> the locations I dont think an EV is going to be practical. You might
> want to consider something that's catching on here in Europe..... bio
> fuel - cooking oil or like the Brits say chip fat.
> The diesel engine was originally design to run on oil seed, not fossil
> fuels.
>
> So take a diesel engine vehicle, swap the fuel filter, run the take
> dry of diesel, refill with cooking oil (used chip fat is free! you
> just need to filter it). Start engine, engage transmission, drive off.
>
> chris
>
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> OK, this is very helpful; thank you. OK, so Li-Io are out of the
>> question, at least for the next few years until the prices fall from
>> the stratosphere. My second choice would have been the Deep- Cycle
>> Gel batteries like the kind typically used in marine applications,
>> and it seems this is what you're suggesting. It would be great if I
>> could use the maintenance-free enclosed type instead of having to
>> remember to add water, but I guess if need be I could always remind
>> myself in iCal.
>>
>> Charging in an RV park or public campground (less expensive than RV
>> parks these days it seems) sounds like a good idea for most days-what
>> about rest stops? Do they have AC outlets at any of those? Would it
>> ever be possible to run a long cord from the vehicle to an outlet in
>> the restroom of the building? Saving money anywhere I can will help a
>> lot.
>>
>> A 125-watt solar panel is approximately 24"x48" right? So, 1000 watts
>> would need about 8 panels and would take up, say 16'?? I think a
>> Sprinter is only about 10' long. Are larger wattage panels only
>> slightly larger in dimensions? Would it be better to have a whole
>> bunch of smaller-watt panels strung together or a few much larger
>> panels? Does it really matter? I should be able to maintain my entire
>> interior arsenal with only one solar panel, and I may get one I can
>> carry with me in a backpack (foldable) to operate my laptop and
>> accessories. In any case, I obviously won't be able to afford to get
>> all of the panels straightaway; I'll have to start out with plug-in
>> charging for the most part. Solar panels have a long lifespan, don't
>> they? I'm hoping they could be an investment that eventually I'll
>> uninstall from the vehicle and install elsewhere after I'm done with
>> the van; is this possible, or would I have to replace the panels
>> nearly as often as the batteries?
>>
>> I don't want to have to resort to diesel/electric hybrid, but I guess
>> if I can find no other viable solutions, I might have to consider it.
>> Is it any more difficult to do a hybrid conversion than an all-
>> electric one? See, I don't like doing all that maintenance on an ICE
>> engine, and I don't want to take the darn thing to a mechanic all the
>> time because the only one I trust to NOT rip me off is my uncle, and
>> he won't be traveling with me.
>> Plus, messing with oil and fluids and such isn't my idea of fun.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 16, 2007, at 12:31 AM, Robert Lemke wrote:
>>
>>> Welcome to the group. I think the Sprinter is a perfect canidate
>>> for what you have in mind. For eff. I would go AC. This will
>>> help you decide http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/motor.htm
>>>
>>> I have crunched some numbers. Lio ion are great batteries but
>>> would take a $50 grand investment. I suggest you deal with the
>>> weight and choose AGM batteries. Your Sprinter with its diesel
>>> knocks down 25 mpg, so with an AC motor I would guess around 350
>>> whr/mile. So to have a 75 mile range would require a bank of 27kw/
>>> hr. AGM's would weigh 1900 lbs. In your travels, when you max out
>>> your range pull into an RV park for an overnight stay.
>>> This would top off your dischared batteries overnight. If you have
>>> room for 1000 watts in panels and can get 9 hours exposure, then
>>> you need 3 days to recharge.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> I just joined this list yesterday, and I've considered going
>>> electric for quite some time but only started seriously researching
>>> it last week. I'm not really "into" cars as it were, I just use them
>>> to get from point A to point B, but my uncle's a mechanic with over
>>> 30-35 years' experience and has agreed to help me do a conversion,
>>> and although he seemed to be somewhat familiar with the terminology
>>> and other information I've learned from my research, I don't think
>>> he's ever actually done an EV conversion before. But he said he was
>>> willing to help me out, so I have started collecting as many details
>>> as possible. I've found parts suppliers, online instructions from
>>> others who have done their own conversions, and lots of enthusiasm
>>> for EVs in general; I have also, however, found much conflicting
>>> information about what is and isn't possible, along with a lot of
>>> gloom-and-doom nay-sayers who insist none of the effort is worth the
>>> end result. I am convinced this is something I want to do, but I
>>> have to get the logistics worked out and figure out how I can make
>>> it work for my situation. Perhaps some of you could help me.
>>>
>>> This message is long; I apologize; I'm very serious about learning
>>> how to do this properly, so I may seem a bit overzealous in my
>>> enthusiasm.
>>>
>>> First, do ALL conversions have to be tiny cars? I love the tiny cars
>>> as a rule, but for this application it's not possible. I'm not
>>> looking to convert a behemoth or anything, as I'm just as disgusted
>>> by those as many EV enthusiasts are. The vehicle I'm hoping to
>>> convert is something like a Dodge Sprinter (the short body 118"
>>> version, which is about the length of a mini-van, but I need to get
>>> the high roof version, which measures 73" or 6 ft standing room from
>>> floor to ceiling), and it will be empty when I start except for the
>>> front driver/passenger seats. I won't be loading it up with junk,
>>> just modest camping/office accommodations and I'll be powering all
>>> my electricity-requiring stuff by a solar panel. I need enough power
>>> to propel the vehicle at highway-legal speeds for as long of a range
>>> as possible given the current battery technologies available
>>> (perhaps Lithium-Polymer, as suggested on a site by a guy who
>>> outlined his conversion in detail), but I'm not pre-occupied with
>>> any of the performance-type concerns of sports car people. 55-65 mph
>>> would be plenty, as long as it won't creep like a turtle while going
>>> up a hill. It needs to transport me and my two small lap-size dogs,
>>> plus my gear, which is miniscule compared to most people's
>>> standards, and I'd like to use regenerative braking to help with
>>> some of the energy generation, plus I'd like to connect solar panels
>>> (separate from the one that will run my laptop, etc.), NOT to
>>> recharge while driving necessarily as I've read that doesn't really
>>> work all that well, but instead to recharge on the days I'm NOT
>>> driving, such as while sitting in a national park or campground. So
>>> I need to find instructions on how to actually hook up the batteries
>>> to roof- mounted solar panels rather than stationary panels at a
>>> home location. It will be much lighter overall than a factory-built
>>> camper van, as I will be building the interior myself, sans most of
>>> the heavy stuff they usually stick in those things.
>>>
>>> Whew, that was a mouthful. I may have forgotten something, but I'm
>>> sure it'll come out during the course of this discussion.
>>>
>>> I'll be fully self-contained for extended periods in this vehicle,
>>> taking photographs, writing essays, and remotely working with my
>>> laptop and wireless card. I will plug into grid power when
>>> available, but I don't want to have to rely on any outside sources
>>> during my travels. I realize that I won't be able to drive every day
>>> because some days will be "charging only" days, and I know I'm not
>>> going to be able to drive for hours and hours without stopping
>>> (unless I can find some feasible batteries that provide more range
>>> than what I've been able to find thus far). Although the vehicle
>>> will be for long- distance travel, it's not like a race or anything.
>>> It's for driving a couple hours, then stopping to work for several
>>> hours and take photographs at various locations during daylight
>>> hours then charging the batteries the next day while working
>>> on-site, then heading off the next day with a full charge. During
>>> this time, I'll be doing multiple things: freelancing, operating a
>>> website, and working on a doctorate, and I plan to travel only where
>>> it's not cold (spring/ summer/fall in colder climates, year-round in
>>> places with warm climates). But becoming energy-independent is very
>>> important to me and I am determined to alleviate fossil fuels.
>>>
>>> I hope I'm explaining this clearly enough, as I know I can get
>>> chatty and ramble on when I get excited.
>>>
>>> I also realize that what I'm proposing will probably draw a lot of
>>> negative responses from people who say it's just not possible, but I
>>> don't care, I'm going to do it anyway, so the more helpful
>>> information I can collect the better. I will find a way to make it
>>> work successfully; it's just non-negotiable. I won't give up until I
>>> figure it out; it's an integral part of my overall mission. If I
>>> need to make certain concessions in some places to make it work,
>>> then I'll consider that once all alternatives have proven
>>> ineffective.
>>>
>>> Second major issue: I need to figure out the maximum number of
>>> batteries I can put into the thing without it weighing me down so
>>> much that it negates their value. I also would prefer not to blow
>>> up, of course. ;-) From what I've read so far, it appears that for
>>> my application, AC would be better than DC, but correct me if you
>>> think I'm mistaken. I'm wondering if it's possible to mount
>>> batteries underneath the van, as there's extra space not available
>>> in a small car (much like those who convert pickups put batteries in
>>> the truck bed), and how far above the ground do the need to be, etc?
>>> What's the maximum amps each battery can have, as I've found
>>> deep-cycle batteries available up to over 200 amp hours. I'm
>>> probably going to need 12-volt instead of 6-volt, but I could be
>>> wrong there too.
>>>
>>> How many batteries can go with each controller, motor, etc? Is it
>>> possible to have two separate systems that I can flip a switch
>>> between? For example, to run the vehicle off one set while charging
>>> the other via solar? This may sound silly, but I haven't found any
>>> info yet that specifically says this is impossible, so I have to
>>> ask.
>>>
>>> I need to be as economical as humanly possible given the parameters
>>> I need to achieve, so any details about how much all this will cost
>>> (except the solar, as I've already found the info I need about that)
>>> and where to get the best deal on the electric conversion parts
>>> would be most appreciated.
>>>
>>> OK, I've wasted enough of your time tonight; hopefully I will learn
>>> more about this from all of you.
>>>
>>> One last question: Is it possible to receive these messages in
>>> digest format? I only joined yesterday and I've already received
>>> nearly 200
>>> individual messages, and my inbox is difficult to navigate as a
>>> result.
>>>
>>> If you've actually read this far, thanks a bunch for your time,
>>>
>>> Crystal :-)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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