EV Digest 6428
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Speaking of Hybrids
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: First post
by "Joe Vitek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Safe Travels
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV digest 6427
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: EV digest 6427
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: Wide vs Skinny Tires LRR
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Lithium Technology, Innosys complete electric car conversion
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Wide vs Skinny Tires LRR
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Wide vs Skinny Tires LRR
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) New to List
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Copper buss bars...
by "Andrew A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Wide vs Skinny Tires LRR
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: NiMH Batteries (was Re: Introductions)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) State of Charge vs. OC Voltage
by "Nawaz Qureshi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: First post
by Robert Lemke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Brush Replacement Tips?
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Flooded Battery State of Charge Question
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Solectria Force NiMH Conversion
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Capacitor Range Helper
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Remember, this is a composite car. The builder will have to
bond the various composite pieces together in any case.
Roger Stockton wrote:
I was really hoping that you would be designing the kit such that the
builder doesn't have to do any composite work at all. That is, the
body/chassis would arrive as a single piece to which the builder would
simply bolt on the suspension bits from the donor car(s), etc., and then
attach the doors, etc.
Yes, eventually. But we are a year or two away from being able to do this.
The earliest adopters will just have a set of plans, and parts lists. As
we progress, and get some sales to fund things, we can offer key parts
that require tooling or molds. For instance, buying the chassis or body
in pieces that you assemble.
But labor is expensive. It will always be that the more you can do
yourself, the cheaper it will be to build.
The adjustable/telescoping halfshaft that Roland came across certainly
sounds like a perfect solution, if you can find them for the T-bird.
I found that these are parts from American Axle's plant in Three Rivers
MI. Interestingly enough, they make complete front and rear suspension
packages. I'm looking into whether they might be suitable.
I don't suppose you'd consider widening the whole car by 3" so that
the stock T'bird 61" track would fit within the still narrower than
front track?
Just leave the body as-is, and use wheel rims with a negative offset. Or
let the wheels stick out the sides; the kids seem to think that's cool. :-P
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> One last question: Is it possible to receive these messages in digest
> format? I only joined yesterday and I've already received nearly 200
> individual messages, and my inbox is difficult to navigate as a result.
>
> If you've actually read this far, thanks a bunch for your time,
Wow, I'm glad I did! Yes, there is a digest and I am on it too (someone may have
answered this in the real time).
To set digest mode (messages are treasured up until they reach some magical
large quantity, and then are sent to you in one great lump, which may happen
several times a day):
Send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
That has this in the subject line and/or in the body:
set ev mail digest
Send this from the email from which you subscribed and you will be set to digest
and the torrential downpour of emails will be bundled up for ease of reading.
You may still get some real time messages for a little bit until the command is
received and implemented in the list server software.
Glad to see you are taking the plunge!
--
joe vitek
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--- Begin Message ---
Put a Shrimp on the Barbi for me, and watch out for Sharks...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for spelling out the AGM acronym; I wasn't sure what the
difference was between that and gel sealed. I'll keep this type of
battery in mind, as most people seem to agree it's one of the best
options. Thanks!
On Feb 16, 2007, at 3:26 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
I would spend just a little more and go with the AGM (absorbed
glass mat) over the gel for a couple of reasons. Like the gel they
are maintance free, but also don't sag on voltage during high
current demands. Plus they can be charged and discharged at much
higher rates. In my truck I use flooded and they sag like crazy. In
another vehicle I use AGM's and really like them.
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That Corvair Ultravan is ginormous!! I don't want to drive something
that big; plus I don't need that much room. I'd rather have a van-
size camper if I can find something affordable to buy second hand.
On Feb 16, 2007, at 3:26 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
Another thought (a pet idea of mine ;-) is to pick a different
vehicle, one more suited to be an EV motor home. Google
"ultravan". This is an ultralight ultraefficient 22 ft. motorhome,
built more like an airplane than a truck. An electric/hybrid
ultravan might be ideal for the kind of lifestyle you are thinking
of.
I'll look up this "ultravan" to see what I can find. I've never
heard of it before now.
Thanks for the info! :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Umm, skinny doesn't ALWAYS win. There is more to LRR than just the width.
If all else is equal, skinny is /probably/ better, but not necessarily.
> Hi,
>
> Is there a formulae for tire width vs LRR? I need to buy new tires for
> my electric Porsche and there are P155, P165 and P195 options. I assume
> that the skinnier tire always wins in LRR but by what measureable
> percentage? Is there measureable data or a formulae for width, are we
> talking about 5% range difference (or MPG) or is it a fraction of a
> percent? When wider tires are used there's obviously a larger contact
> patch area but the pressure to the road per square inch is decreased so
> it may not be a huge percentage.
>
> Best Regards,
> Mark
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> The fish are biting.
> Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Feb 16, 2007, at 12:06 AM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
Why do all these companies keep putting similar sized packs in the
vehicles and all get in the low 100 mile range?
My guess is money, and time to recharge.
We've already been through the math on the 1000-mile pack - nobody can
afford the electrical service to recharge it in less than a day.
100 mile range begins to sound feasible to Joe Sixpack, so that's
probably the least expensive EV that will sell.
If you were to do a minimax algorithm on perceived useful mileage,
cost, and time to recharge, you'd probably end up with the vehicles
we're seeing (well, with the vehicle SPECS we seeing, as the actual
vehicles are pretty thin on the ground).
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://www.gdunge.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A single data point: An older Corvette went 10 mph faster on the Salt Flats
when switching from the stock wide tires to skinny tires (like to a drag
skinny). Alot of this might have been better aero, and some perhaps due to
better gearing due to different tire diameter. Still, it is a significant
improvement at those speeds.
----- Original Message ----
From: Grigg. John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 8:29:24 AM
Subject: RE: Wide vs Skinny Tires LRR
I'm interested in this formula as well. I have fairly large tires
275/60/15 - about 10 inches wide and I'm thinking about changing them to
a narrower tire. Would my money be well spent here?
John Grigg
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/723
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark E. Hanson
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 5:09 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Wide vs Skinny Tires LRR
Hi,
Is there a formulae for tire width vs LRR? I need to buy new tires
for my electric Porsche and there are P155, P165 and P195 options. I
assume that the skinnier tire always wins in LRR but by what measureable
percentage? Is there measureable data or a formulae for width, are we
talking about 5% range difference (or MPG) or is it a fraction of a
percent? When wider tires are used there's obviously a larger contact
patch area but the pressure to the road per square inch is decreased so
it may not be a huge percentage.
Best Regards,
Mark
---------------------------------
The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
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--- Begin Message ---
Also, it would be great data for the list if you could do coastdowns before and
after. I'd be happy to do the math on it.
----- Original Message ----
From: Grigg. John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 8:29:24 AM
Subject: RE: Wide vs Skinny Tires LRR
I'm interested in this formula as well. I have fairly large tires
275/60/15 - about 10 inches wide and I'm thinking about changing them to
a narrower tire. Would my money be well spent here?
John Grigg
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/723
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark E. Hanson
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 5:09 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Wide vs Skinny Tires LRR
Hi,
Is there a formulae for tire width vs LRR? I need to buy new tires
for my electric Porsche and there are P155, P165 and P195 options. I
assume that the skinnier tire always wins in LRR but by what measureable
percentage? Is there measureable data or a formulae for width, are we
talking about 5% range difference (or MPG) or is it a fraction of a
percent? When wider tires are used there's obviously a larger contact
patch area but the pressure to the road per square inch is decreased so
it may not be a huge percentage.
Best Regards,
Mark
---------------------------------
The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
____________________________________________________________________________
COUNTY OF SACRAMENTO EMAIL DISCLAIMER:
This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential, and
privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review,
copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by other
than the County of Sacramento or the intended recipient is strictly prohibited.
If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately
and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any
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--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 2/16/2007 12:57:59 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I figured maybe as someone with experience with this
particular item would be able to give me more information about it
without my having to suffer through marketer speak on the company's
website. I'll visit the URL and see what I can find out on my own.>>>
I'm fairly new to the EV scene as well - just crossed the 1,000 mile mark on
my three-wheeled BMW motorcycle/golf cart vehicle since last September. I
found that a mix of visiting sites (and emailing and calling the people who
are selling this stuff) and lurking and asking on this List to be a real
learning tool. Some of the inpatience you may have picked up on is due to the
fact
that new folks, like you and me, come onboard and ask the same questions
that have already been covered a number of times. The archives are INVALUABLE
to "catch up" on all this data. In
my emails and direct phone calls, I have found the EV suppliers to be
friendly, encouraging and VERY informative, even though I'm not buying a lot
yet....
Matt Parkhouse
Colorado Springs, CO
BMW m/c-Golf Cart trike - 48 volts, 30mph on the flat, 35 mile range
1972 VW Van - to be converted this year!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
I am in the process of wiring up my truck (120v
system, 9" Kostov) and I've decided that I want to use
copper buss bars instead of 2/0 and lugs for some of
the shorter connections.
I was just wondering, what size copper do I need to
use for this? I was thinking something along the lines
of 1/16" or 3/32" by 1". Does that make sense?
The other thing is, where do I find copper? I was
thinking about flattening some pipe, but the only pipe
I can find is thin-wall. Any thoughts on where I could
find thick-wall tubing?
Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Andrew
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The skinner tire theory is not valid. An NEV with the tires from a Honda
Insight will climb hills better and have a higher top speed. Depending on
weight I'd get a 14 inch wheel and put the proper B381 Bridgestone size on
for the weight carrying capacity you need. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 5:09 AM
Subject: Wide vs Skinny Tires LRR
> Hi,
>
> Is there a formulae for tire width vs LRR? I need to buy new tires for
my electric Porsche and there are P155, P165 and P195 options. I assume
that the skinnier tire always wins in LRR but by what measureable
percentage? Is there measureable data or a formulae for width, are we
talking about 5% range difference (or MPG) or is it a fraction of a percent?
When wider tires are used there's obviously a larger contact patch area but
the pressure to the road per square inch is decreased so it may not be a
huge percentage.
>
> Best Regards,
> Mark
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> The fish are biting.
> Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ian Hooper wrote:
Interesting about the Cobasys/Chevron relationship, why am I not
surprised!?
There are a few Chinese manufacturers of large capacity NiMHs, e.g
http://nthaiyang.en.alibaba.com/. They are pretty expensive though, I
got quoted US$153ea for 1.2V, 80Ah (600A peak discharge) cells, so it's
heading towards $20K for a ~10kWh pack! Ouch.
The option I'm currently looking at are Sub-Cs, due to their high
discharge rate (>10C). Manufacturer direct, they're about US$1.50 each
for 1.2v 3.5Ah, I'll need about 2500 of them for 10kWh. So twice the
price of the best lead acid, but half the weight and hopefully longer
cycle life. Using that many individual cells seems silly, but it has
been done before, e.g the Tesla Roadster, or White Lightning
Lots of people are trying to use hundreds to thousands of small cells
to make an EV sized battery pack. There are lots of problems! Frankly,
I'm pessimistic -- NO ONE has any long-term experience yet. I think it
works in the short term, but will prove impractical in the long run (too
expensive, too unreliable). But, time will tell!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry that the html format could not be opened. I am posting it in plain
text, but my table is destroyed by doing so. You guys can redo the table
from the numbers so that it makes sense. I will align it here as well. Good
luck!
U.S. Battery Manufacturing Company
APPROXIMATE STATE OF CHARGE TABLE for a Nominal 6 Volt Battery.
Open Circuit Voltage* Acid Specific Gravity @ 80° F State of Charge, %
6.3 or greater 1.265 or greater 100
6.2 to 6.3 1.225 75
to 100
6.1 to 6.2 1.190 50
to 75
6.0 to 6.1 1.155 25
to 50
5.85 to 6.0 1.120 0
to 25
5.85 or less 1.120 or less
0
* after several hours stand.
Nawaz Qureshi
Vice-President of Engineering
U.S. Battery Mfg. Co.
1675 Sampson Avenue
Corona, CA 92879-1889
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
T: 951-371-8090
Fax: 951-371-4671
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
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--- Begin Message ---
You can get 1200 watts of solar panels into a rack of 8.5' X 12'. That works
out to be (28) 43 watt panels all wired in series to charge your 336 volt
battery bank if you choose to go with an AC motor/inverter combo. If you plan
to leave van unused for long periods of time you will need either a charge
controller or a switch to turn off the panels as they can overcharge your
batteries. Solar panels are set to have about 17 volts output so that the
charge does not slow down as the battery bank reaches full charge. Current
would only be about 2 amps, so you could use 12 AWG braided wire for easy
hook-up. Each hour in the sun would give you about 3 miles.
Bob
Crystal Silver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Yes, I know it's better than wasting the oil, but I just think
they're getting a little greedy that's all. I'd be doing them a
service, after all by taking their trash off their hands so they no
longer have to deal with it. Yes, I'm becoming a bit of a cheapskate,
but it's a necessary evil for me at the moment that can't be easily
remedied. ;)
I'll keep reading up on it. We'll see what happens. Thanks for the info!
On Feb 16, 2007, at 3:05 PM, chris lewis wrote:
> Crystal, couple of things. 1) diesels are partially self
> lubricating so oil changes are no where near as frequent as a gas
> (pertol) engine needs. 2) even if these that are 'throwing out'
> cooking fat are now getting sight of $ surly its better that the
> used oil just being dumped.
>
> = you'll be recycling!
> its a lot cheaper and with significantly less impact on the
> environment - you'll be using a used vehicle, not purchasing newly
> manufactured parts, motors, chargers, batteries, solar panels
> etc ... etc...
>
> Its about application, I'm in no way discrediting EV's I'm in fact
> looking at converting 911's here in the UK for people that have to
> commute into London and pay £8($16) per day for the privilege. EV's
> are exempt.
>
> Here is a pretty good piece done on UK TV about the subject of bio
> fuel conversion ie; running a diesel on chip fat http://
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCmfT1XvdNw
>
> Chris
>
>
> Crystal Silver wrote:
>
>> All the stuff I've read about bio-diesel operation sounds
>> complicated - like having to run the diesel motor with gasoline
>> first then turning over to the "grease" power after the engine is
>> warmed up, and stuff like that...then carrying the veggie oils in
>> the trunk and doing filtering every time...are there instructions
>> somewhere that make it as simple as what you've made it sound?
>> And will my vehicle constantly wreak of french fries? I've also
>> read that some places in the U.S. are getting wind of this and
>> are starting to charge people to take their used grease. I'm not
>> sure how prevalent this practice is, but sounds like something
>> they'd try to profit from here. Does bio diesel require changing
>> the oil the same as regular gasoline? Is everything else the same
>> as operating a regular guzzle-mobile?
>>
>> I do know that diesel engines were originally designed for this
>> purpose, but I have never actually gone through the process of
>> figuring out how to implement it myself. But I did see one of
>> Morgan Spurlock's programs one time where they were filming at
>> the Dancing Rabbit eco-village (in Missouri?), and all the steps
>> they had to go through just to make their vehicle operate seemed
>> a bit counter- productive. Just getting a fill-up seemed to be an
>> all-day ordeal.
>>
>> I am interested in hearing more about this, however, as the more
>> efficiently and inexpensively (and quickly) I can get up-and-
>> running the better.
>>
>> Thanks for the info.
>>
>>
>> On Feb 16, 2007, at 1:05 PM, chris lewis wrote:
>>
>>> From reading your requirements and the environment you'll be in
>>> ie; the locations I dont think an EV is going to be practical.
>>> You might want to consider something that's catching on here in
>>> Europe..... bio fuel - cooking oil or like the Brits say chip
>>> fat. The diesel engine was originally design to run on oil seed,
>>> not fossil fuels.
>>>
>>> So take a diesel engine vehicle, swap the fuel filter, run the
>>> take dry of diesel, refill with cooking oil (used chip fat is
>>> free! you just need to filter it). Start engine, engage
>>> transmission, drive off.
>>>
>>> chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>>
>>>> OK, this is very helpful; thank you. OK, so Li-Io are out of
>>>> the question, at least for the next few years until the prices
>>>> fall from the stratosphere. My second choice would have been
>>>> the Deep- Cycle Gel batteries like the kind typically used in
>>>> marine applications, and it seems this is what you're
>>>> suggesting. It would be great if I could use the maintenance-
>>>> free enclosed type instead of having to remember to add water,
>>>> but I guess if need be I could always remind myself in iCal.
>>>>
>>>> Charging in an RV park or public campground (less expensive
>>>> than RV parks these days it seems) sounds like a good idea for
>>>> most dayswhat about rest stops? Do they have AC outlets at
>>>> any of those? Would it ever be possible to run a long cord
>>>> from the vehicle to an outlet in the restroom of the building?
>>>> Saving money anywhere I can will help a lot.
>>>>
>>>> A 125-watt solar panel is approximately 24"x48" right? So, 1000
>>>> watts would need about 8 panels and would take up, say 16'?? I
>>>> think a Sprinter is only about 10' long. Are larger wattage
>>>> panels only slightly larger in dimensions? Would it be better
>>>> to have a whole bunch of smaller-watt panels strung together
>>>> or a few much larger panels? Does it really matter? I should
>>>> be able to maintain my entire interior arsenal with only one
>>>> solar panel, and I may get one I can carry with me in a
>>>> backpack (foldable) to operate my laptop and accessories. In
>>>> any case, I obviously won't be able to afford to get all of
>>>> the panels straightaway; I'll have to start out with plug-in
>>>> charging for the most part. Solar panels have a long lifespan,
>>>> don't they? I'm hoping they could be an investment that
>>>> eventually I'll uninstall from the vehicle and install
>>>> elsewhere after I'm done with the van; is this possible, or
>>>> would I have to replace the panels nearly as often as the
>>>> batteries?
>>>>
>>>> I don't want to have to resort to diesel/electric hybrid, but I
>>>> guess if I can find no other viable solutions, I might have to
>>>> consider it. Is it any more difficult to do a hybrid
>>>> conversion than an all- electric one? See, I don't like doing
>>>> all that maintenance on an ICE engine, and I don't want to
>>>> take the darn thing to a mechanic all the time because the
>>>> only one I trust to NOT rip me off is my uncle, and he won't
>>>> be traveling with me. Plus, messing with oil and fluids and
>>>> such isn't my idea of fun.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 16, 2007, at 12:31 AM, Robert Lemke wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Welcome to the group. I think the Sprinter is a perfect
>>>>> canidate for what you have in mind. For eff. I would go AC.
>>>>> This will help you decide http://www.metricmind.com/
>>>>> ac_honda/motor.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> I have crunched some numbers. Lio ion are great batteries
>>>>> but would take a $50 grand investment. I suggest you deal
>>>>> with the weight and choose AGM batteries. Your Sprinter with
>>>>> its diesel knocks down 25 mpg, so with an AC motor I would
>>>>> guess around 350 whr/mile. So to have a 75 mile range would
>>>>> require a bank of 27kw/ hr. AGM's would weigh 1900 lbs. In
>>>>> your travels, when you max out your range pull into an RV
>>>>> park for an overnight stay. This would top off your dischared
>>>>> batteries overnight. If you have room for 1000 watts in
>>>>> panels and can get 9 hours exposure, then you need 3 days to
>>>>> recharge.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>>>> Hi there,
>>>>>
>>>>> I just joined this list yesterday, and I've considered going
>>>>> electric
>>>>> for quite some time but only started seriously researching it last
>>>>> week. I'm not really "into" cars as it were, I just use them to
>>>>> get
>>>>> from point A to point B, but my uncle's a mechanic with over 30-35
>>>>> years' experience and has agreed to help me do a conversion, and
>>>>> although he seemed to be somewhat familiar with the terminology
>>>>> and
>>>>> other information I've learned from my research, I don't think
>>>>> he's
>>>>> ever actually done an EV conversion before. But he said he was
>>>>> willing to help me out, so I have started collecting as many
>>>>> details
>>>>> as possible. I've found parts suppliers, online instructions from
>>>>> others who have done their own conversions, and lots of enthusiasm
>>>>> for EVs in general; I have also, however, found much conflicting
>>>>> information about what is and isn't possible, along with a lot of
>>>>> gloom-and-doom nay-sayers who insist none of the effort is
>>>>> worth the
>>>>> end result. I am convinced this is something I want to do, but
>>>>> I have
>>>>> to get the logistics worked out and figure out how I can make
>>>>> it work
>>>>> for my situation. Perhaps some of you could help me.
>>>>>
>>>>> This message is long; I apologize; I'm very serious about learning
>>>>> how to do this properly, so I may seem a bit overzealous in my
>>>>> enthusiasm.
>>>>>
>>>>> First, do ALL conversions have to be tiny cars? I love the tiny
>>>>> cars
>>>>> as a rule, but for this application it's not possible. I'm not
>>>>> looking to convert a behemoth or anything, as I'm just as
>>>>> disgusted
>>>>> by those as many EV enthusiasts are. The vehicle I'm hoping to
>>>>> convert is something like a Dodge Sprinter (the short body 118"
>>>>> version, which is about the length of a mini-van, but I need to
>>>>> get
>>>>> the high roof version, which measures 73" or 6 ft standing room
>>>>> from
>>>>> floor to ceiling), and it will be empty when I start except for
>>>>> the
>>>>> front driver/passenger seats. I won't be loading it up with junk,
>>>>> just modest camping/office accommodations and I'll be powering
>>>>> all my
>>>>> electricity-requiring stuff by a solar panel. I need enough
>>>>> power to
>>>>> propel the vehicle at highway-legal speeds for as long of a
>>>>> range as
>>>>> possible given the current battery technologies available (perhaps
>>>>> Lithium-Polymer, as suggested on a site by a guy who outlined his
>>>>> conversion in detail), but I'm not pre-occupied with any of the
>>>>> performance-type concerns of sports car people. 55-65 mph would be
>>>>> plenty, as long as it won't creep like a turtle while going up a
>>>>> hill. It needs to transport me and my two small lap-size dogs,
>>>>> plus
>>>>> my gear, which is miniscule compared to most people's
>>>>> standards, and
>>>>> I'd like to use regenerative braking to help with some of the
>>>>> energy
>>>>> generation, plus I'd like to connect solar panels (separate
>>>>> from the
>>>>> one that will run my laptop, etc.), NOT to recharge while driving
>>>>> necessarily as I've read that doesn't really work all that
>>>>> well, but
>>>>> instead to recharge on the days I'm NOT driving, such as while
>>>>> sitting in a national park or campground. So I need to find
>>>>> instructions on how to actually hook up the batteries to roof-
>>>>> mounted
>>>>> solar panels rather than stationary panels at a home location. It
>>>>> will be much lighter overall than a factory-built camper van, as I
>>>>> will be building the interior myself, sans most of the heavy stuff
>>>>> they usually stick in those things.
>>>>>
>>>>> Whew, that was a mouthful. I may have forgotten something, but I'm
>>>>> sure it'll come out during the course of this discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll be fully self-contained for extended periods in this vehicle,
>>>>> taking photographs, writing essays, and remotely working with my
>>>>> laptop and wireless card. I will plug into grid power when
>>>>> available,
>>>>> but I don't want to have to rely on any outside sources during my
>>>>> travels. I realize that I won't be able to drive every day because
>>>>> some days will be "charging only" days, and I know I'm not
>>>>> going to
>>>>> be able to drive for hours and hours without stopping (unless I
>>>>> can
>>>>> find some feasible batteries that provide more range than what
>>>>> I've
>>>>> been able to find thus far). Although the vehicle will be for
>>>>> long-
>>>>> distance travel, it's not like a race or anything. It's for
>>>>> driving a
>>>>> couple hours, then stopping to work for several hours and take
>>>>> photographs at various locations during daylight hours then
>>>>> charging
>>>>> the batteries the next day while working on-site, then heading off
>>>>> the next day with a full charge. During this time, I'll be doing
>>>>> multiple things: freelancing, operating a website, and working
>>>>> on a
>>>>> doctorate, and I plan to travel only where it's not cold (spring/
>>>>> summer/fall in colder climates, year-round in places with warm
>>>>> climates). But becoming energy-independent is very important to me
>>>>> and I am determined to alleviate fossil fuels.
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope I'm explaining this clearly enough, as I know I can get
>>>>> chatty
>>>>> and ramble on when I get excited.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also realize that what I'm proposing will probably draw a lot of
>>>>> negative responses from people who say it's just not possible,
>>>>> but I
>>>>> don't care, I'm going to do it anyway, so the more helpful
>>>>> information I can collect the better. I will find a way to make it
>>>>> work successfully; it's just non-negotiable. I won't give up
>>>>> until I
>>>>> figure it out; it's an integral part of my overall mission. If
>>>>> I need
>>>>> to make certain concessions in some places to make it work,
>>>>> then I'll
>>>>> consider that once all alternatives have proven ineffective.
>>>>>
>>>>> Second major issue: I need to figure out the maximum number of
>>>>> batteries I can put into the thing without it weighing me down so
>>>>> much that it negates their value. I also would prefer not to
>>>>> blow up,
>>>>> of course. ;-) From what I've read so far, it appears that for my
>>>>> application, AC would be better than DC, but correct me if you
>>>>> think
>>>>> I'm mistaken. I'm wondering if it's possible to mount batteries
>>>>> underneath the van, as there's extra space not available in a
>>>>> small
>>>>> car (much like those who convert pickups put batteries in the
>>>>> truck
>>>>> bed), and how far above the ground do the need to be, etc?
>>>>> What's the
>>>>> maximum amps each battery can have, as I've found deep-cycle
>>>>> batteries available up to over 200 amp hours. I'm probably
>>>>> going to
>>>>> need 12-volt instead of 6-volt, but I could be wrong there too.
>>>>>
>>>>> How many batteries can go with each controller, motor, etc? Is it
>>>>> possible to have two separate systems that I can flip a switch
>>>>> between? For example, to run the vehicle off one set while
>>>>> charging
>>>>> the other via solar? This may sound silly, but I haven't found any
>>>>> info yet that specifically says this is impossible, so I have
>>>>> to ask.
>>>>>
>>>>> I need to be as economical as humanly possible given the
>>>>> parameters I
>>>>> need to achieve, so any details about how much all this will cost
>>>>> (except the solar, as I've already found the info I need about
>>>>> that)
>>>>> and where to get the best deal on the electric conversion
>>>>> parts would
>>>>> be most appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, I've wasted enough of your time tonight; hopefully I will
>>>>> learn
>>>>> more about this from all of you.
>>>>>
>>>>> One last question: Is it possible to receive these messages in
>>>>> digest
>>>>> format? I only joined yesterday and I've already received
>>>>> nearly 200
>>>>> individual messages, and my inbox is difficult to navigate as
>>>>> a result.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you've actually read this far, thanks a bunch for your time,
>>>>>
>>>>> Crystal :-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> + 44(0) 7770 604 380
>>>
>>> The information in this email is confidential and privileged and
>>> is intended solely for the addressee. Any disclosure, copying
>>> or distribution of this email and attachments is strictly
>>> prohibited and unlawful unless with express permission of sender
>>> detailed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> + 44(0) 7770 604 380
>
> The information in this email is confidential and privileged and is
> intended solely for the addressee. Any disclosure, copying or
> distribution of this email and attachments is strictly prohibited
> and unlawful unless with express permission of sender detailed.
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Peter
I find it easier to lift the springs using a small
hook. These can be made using an old coat hanger.
Even though these brushes are a straight angled brush
(meaning they can't be put in backwards) there is a
little trick I've learned. The brush lead terminal
has a dimpled side where they punched the hole
through. If you face it so it's the side that rests
against the holder then the lead will bite as the
screw is tightened and will not try to twist (or turn)
when the screw tightens down. The other side has a
slight bow and doesn't seat as well against the holder
making for a poorer connection and the lead can turn
as the screw is tightened.
Anyway hope this helps, it should be an easy proccess.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> On Saturday the Triangle Electric Auto Association
> is going to do their
> first brush replacement on an 8" ADC. The owner has
> ordered the brushes
> and they should be here by now. The motor is in a
> Geo Metro. We've
> read Convert It!! Any other tips?
>
> Peter
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 15 Feb 2007 at 10:36, Nawaz Qureshi wrote:
> REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED
Nawaz tried to send a table containing SOC vs Voltage information, but the
listserver clipped it (since html is, for good reasons, a no-no). I've
posted the table here :
http://evdl.org/pages/socvolts.html
This chart will remain available indefinitely as part of the EVDL library :
http://evdl.org/lib/
BTW, I've recently tidied up some of the pages at evdl.org. I'd done a bit
of rewriting and added a simple logo at the head of the pages (not all of
them have the logo yet; give me time. ;-)
Comments and suggestions are welcome.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Victor,
Did you ever figure out a charging profile for the Ovonics?
I have my Force apart and am looking at reprogramming the BC3300
(NLG412) charger and the ACM325 motor controller. I may be able to
accomplish this as there is a working Force near me, but was wondering
if you had any suggestions.
However, what I don't have is a BTMS for the Ovonics that will drive the
customm air cooled fans that I will have to assemble and manage the
charging profile. I was wondering what you use/suggest for these touchy
batteries.
Does anyone else have any suggestions as to what to use for a BTMS?
Thanks,
Noel L
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Noel P. Luneau
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 5:53 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
Hi Victor,
When I contacted Zivan USA they said they have a charging profile for
Ovonics. I'm hoping to have 15 of my 30 13.2v's in my Force.
Solectria must have the charging profile as they used them in the Force
for awhile. There is a document on the Internet when two Forces, EV15
and EVHQ were tested. No charging profiles but interesting reading.
I'll let you know if I can get the charger and controller reprogrammed.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: "Victor Tikhonov"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 10/5/05 5:39:04 PM
To: "ev@listproc.sjsu.edu"<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
Roger,
Better than nothing, but still not a thing about charging profile.
I know more details about charging, but would love to see original
Ovonic's info.
Roger Stockton wrote:
>
>
http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/transportation/Series9500/Series_9500_Brochur
> e.html
>
> The 13.2V module consists of 11 of these 9500-series cells strapped
> together and connected in series. The Cobasys series 9500 12V battery
> consists of 10 cells strapped together and connected in series.
>
> They are different, but the individual cells that make them up appear
> identical and should have the same charge requirements. What little
> charge information Cobasys appears to provide can be found in the
> brochure for the 9500 series that targets stationary applications:
>
>
<http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/stationary/Series9500/ST_Series_9500_Brochur
> e.html>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Well for Valentines Day, I cleaned out all the crap in the garage and
moved the Force in.
Yesterday was the start of the NiMH conversion. I removed all the
batteries and did a fit test for the Ovonics. Interestingly enough, I
was able to fit the standard six comfortably in the front and ten in the
rear.
I posted some pictures of the project in the Photo's section of the
Solectria Yahoo group.
So much more to do. Here is a rough draft of my Project plan. Feel
free to offer advice.
1. Charge and load test the 32 batteries to determine the best 18.
2. Send two of those to Paul :)
3. Determine if 16 batteries will be within tolerance of the DC/DC
Converter (200V Max), and AMC325 Motor Controller (200V Max) and if the
3KW NLG412 Brusa charger will not be under capacity.
4. Find and program the NLG412 with the correct charging profile for 15
or 16 Ovonic batteries.
5. Program the AM325 Motor Controller for the change in Voltage and
Amperage.
6. Find a packing material that will be able to withstand the heat that
the NiMH will produce. I am not sure if the existing orange foam will
suffice.
7. Find similar air handlers to what Solectria used to cool the Ovonics.
8. Attach the Blowers to the lid of the Battery boxes and provide
ducting to the battery box exit holes.
9. Cut the battery boxes to provide exhaust for the air handlers.
10. Determine how to activate the blowers during charge and when heated.
My Force has a circuit to activate the warming blanket during charge so
maybe that can be used.
11. Determine if a BMS is required and if so how to implement.
12. Connect the batteries together.
13. Test drive.
Thoughts?
Noel Luneau
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone ever tried to extend range by using capacitors in parallel
with the motor / battery pack to buffer peak amps ?
How would one calculate the required capacitance ?
How would one calculate the amount of range extended or would this be
only from real world testing ??
What else would be needed in the circuit besides the capacitor bank ?
Maxwell has a 110 pound 63 Farad 125 VDC capacitor for $ 4000, but is
something this large necessary for a 120 volt DC system with a
standard DC Series Motor and Curtis controller ?
Maxwell ultracap has a max operating voltage of 135 VDC with 142 VDC
surge capacity, so you could not hook up to a fully charged 120 volt
battery pack until after pulling out of the garage.
It also has max continuous current of only 150 amps with a 700 amp
max current capacity, DC series resistance of 17 milli ohms and 14
milli ohms at 100 Hz.
Menlo Park III,
Bill
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--- End Message ---
