EV Digest 6429
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: First post
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EV digest 6425
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Lithium Technology, Innosys complete electric car conversion
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: NiMH Batteries (was Re: Introductions)
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Flooded Battery State of Charge Question
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV digest 6427
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Solectria Force NiMH Conversion - and fans/blowers
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV digest 6427
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) RE: Introductions
by Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Speaking of Hybrids
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: EV digest 6424
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) FreedomEV Competition - or just more hype?
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Capacitor Range Helper
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: First post
by Robert Lemke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: First post
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Sunrise, was: Speaking of Hybrids
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: First post
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: FreedomEV Competition - or just more hype?
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EV digest 6424
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EV digest 6425
by Nick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Lithium Technology, Innosys complete electric car conversion
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:12 AM 2/16/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OK, tell me more about this Manzanita Micro charger. How does it
work? Is it like a generator? How long does it take to charge the
batteries with one of these? How big is it and how much does it
weigh? I've never heard of this product.
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There's a company that specializes in Sprinter camper vans; it's at
sportsmobile.com. I have considered a VW, as I like the form factor, but
everyone I ask says the parts are uber-expensive and it's difficult to
find competent professionals to work on them. That is one of the big
problems with a vehicle like the Winnebago Rialta (Winnebago Industries
is an Iowa company), which is built on a VW chassis; lots of complaints
about that vehicle and the annoyance of servicing it.
Just be aware that the Sprinter *is* the VW Eurovan, with a different
nameplate! So most comments about the VWs apply to the Sprinters, too.
The main problems are that VW has mediocre quality control, parts are
expensive because the exchange rate with Germany is bad, customer
service is spotty, and the dealers don't see many of them and so aren't
very knowledgeable about fixing them.
Winnebago has an even worse record for quality control and service.
My experience is that you'll have a good vehicle once you find and fix
all the loose screws and assembly errors yourself, and do your own
maintenance to keep the dealer's stooges away from it. :-)
Is there a comparable mini-van from Toyota or Honda that is available
in the United States?
Nothing new; minivans have evolved into car-like things that aren't any
good for hauling or camping.
I would consider making it a hybrid...
I've been considering hybrid as well. One poster suggested bio diesel,
but I need to study up on the conversion requirements first. Can I make
a solar-electric-biodiesel hybrid? Or is that just getting ridiculously
complicated?
The Sprinters already come with a diesel engine, which will run on
service station biodiesel as-is. As others have posted, there is some
rigamarole to use straight vegetable oil, or used fryer oil, but this is
mostly fuel processing that you do outside the vehicle.
Google "ultravan"...
I'll look up this "ultravan" to see what I can find. I've never heard of
it before now.
They're neat vehicles. Certainly cheaper and easier to work on than a
Sprinter, and would go twice as far on the same amount of batteries.
Their national convention is in Iowa this summer, I think, so you could
see them "in person".
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Why do all these companies keep putting similar sized packs in the
vehicles and all get in the low 100 mile range? When will a company
install a monster pack the likes of which we have never seen before
and start breaking some range records? 200 mile range. 300 mile
range... Just for the fun of it, 1,000 mile range per charge? Would
it take a purpose built vehicle to do it? A base to support the
weight and facilitate the bulk. An aerodynamic shell to cover it.
Why couldn't it run 1,000 miles?
Can you say "Sunrise"? :-)
It's an ultralight aerodynamic car that can carry half its weight in
batteries. With GM/Ovonic nimh batteries from an EV1, it has gone over
400 miles on a charge. With lithium ions, it could go even farther!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is Chryslers use of the Turbo-Encabulator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbVY5teBzlg
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
---------------------------------------------------
See the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Check the EVDL Archives: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
Check out the EV Photo Album: www.evalbum.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Eric Poulsen
Sent: February 16, 2007 9:48 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
Just watch the video. It's obvious.
Michael L Werth wrote:
> Hey, that's great. What does it do?
>
> > retro
> encabulator <
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
AC Propulsion has had 6800 lion cells in the Tzero since 2003. Does anyone know
if they still have the original pack, and how many miles?
----- Original Message ----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 10:56:10 AM
Subject: Re: NiMH Batteries (was Re: Introductions)
Lots of people are trying to use hundreds to thousands of small cells
to make an EV sized battery pack. There are lots of problems! Frankly,
I'm pessimistic -- NO ONE has any long-term experience yet. I think it
works in the short term, but will prove impractical in the long run (too
expensive, too unreliable). But, time will tell!
____________________________________________________________________________________
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for clearing that up.
As someone with no background in electronics, I really appreciate the
straight forward information you provide the EV community with your
posts to the EVDL. This was one of the reasons I went with Interstate
(which I understand is a rebranded US BAttery). The other was the
friendly local interstate dealer.
On Feb 15, 2007, at 1:36 PM, Nawaz Qureshi wrote:
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That Corvair Ultravan is ginormous!! I don't want to drive something
that big; plus I don't need that much room.
It *looks* big, doesn't it? But:
Ultravan Sprinter (high roof, long wheelbase version)
height 96" 102"
width 96" 78"
length 264" 263"
Even the shortest wheelbase Sprinter is 197" long, so there's not as
much difference as you'd think (except in width). Sprinters are *big* vans!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> 7. Find similar air handlers to what Solectria used
> to cool the Ovonics.
Noel,
Will these be blowers or fans? What voltage
do you target using on these devices?
I frequently 'dumpster dive' at work and have lots of
12V and 24Vdc blowers hanging around in the basement.
I'm not looking to get money for them, but I would
like to get $10 for shipping (I like to promote EV's
and recycle!).
You can check out the air performance here,
http://www.ametektip.com/ametek/PDF/CatalogsHTML/BLDCCatalog2006/index.php?page=0046
Some of the blowers with built in controls have a
0-4Vdc speed command, so you could command the
performance that you want up to the maximum air
performance.
Rod
--- "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Well for Valentines Day, I cleaned out all the crap
> in the garage and
> moved the Force in.
>
> Yesterday was the start of the NiMH conversion. I
> removed all the
> batteries and did a fit test for the Ovonics.
> Interestingly enough, I
> was able to fit the standard six comfortably in the
> front and ten in the
> rear.
>
> I posted some pictures of the project in the Photo's
> section of the
> Solectria Yahoo group.
>
> So much more to do. Here is a rough draft of my
> Project plan. Feel
> free to offer advice.
>
> 1. Charge and load test the 32 batteries to
> determine the best 18.
> 2. Send two of those to Paul :)
> 3. Determine if 16 batteries will be within
> tolerance of the DC/DC
> Converter (200V Max), and AMC325 Motor Controller
> (200V Max) and if the
> 3KW NLG412 Brusa charger will not be under capacity.
> 4. Find and program the NLG412 with the correct
> charging profile for 15
> or 16 Ovonic batteries.
> 5. Program the AM325 Motor Controller for the change
> in Voltage and
> Amperage.
> 6. Find a packing material that will be able to
> withstand the heat that
> the NiMH will produce. I am not sure if the
> existing orange foam will
> suffice.
> 7. Find similar air handlers to what Solectria used
> to cool the Ovonics.
> 8. Attach the Blowers to the lid of the Battery
> boxes and provide
> ducting to the battery box exit holes.
> 9. Cut the battery boxes to provide exhaust for the
> air handlers.
> 10. Determine how to activate the blowers during
> charge and when heated.
> My Force has a circuit to activate the warming
> blanket during charge so
> maybe that can be used.
> 11. Determine if a BMS is required and if so how to
> implement.
> 12. Connect the batteries together.
> 13. Test drive.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Noel Luneau
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm convinced this is the transmission used in the
Tilley Delorean. I think he tweeked the 'dinglearm'
to get better performance and range though :-)
Rod
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here is Chryslers use of the Turbo-Encabulator
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbVY5teBzlg
>
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> See the New Beetle EV project
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> Check the EVDL Archives:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
>
> Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
>
> Check out the EV Photo Album: www.evalbum.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Eric Poulsen
> Sent: February 16, 2007 9:48 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
>
> Just watch the video. It's obvious.
>
> Michael L Werth wrote:
> > Hey, that's great. What does it do?
> >
> > > retro
> > encabulator <
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 2/16/2007 2:46:40 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
That Corvair Ultravan is ginormous!! I don't want to drive something
that big; plus I don't need that much room. I'd rather have a van-
size camper if I can find something affordable to buy second hand.
I took a look at the Ultravan too.... Wasn't aware of those....
I'd sort of feel bad reworking one of those classics into an EV. Maybe
we'll have EV campers but probably not in MY (estimated 20-30 more years)
lifetime.....I'm organizing a VW Van conversion this year but I'll be happy
with a
range of 50 miles!
Travel? I'll rent an ICE car or take my old BMW motorcycle. EV have their
strong areas (urban commuting, commercial transport and the like. Long
distance travel will remain the strong suit of the ICE vehicles....
Matt Parkhouse
Colorado Springs, CO
BMW m/c-Golf Cart trike - 48 volts, 30mph on the flat, 35 mile range
1972 VW Van - to be converted this year!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day Ian,
Yep, there are a few Aussies on the list - most from Sydney, Melbourne
and Adelaide.
Where are you planning to get your NiMH batts from?
Are you going to build the pack from 9AH D cells?
If you have a search through the archive for NiMH (see
http://www.evdl.org/ for directions) you'll see that it's rather
awkward, through not impossible, to build a big pack from small NiMH
cells.
As for the controller, a Z1K is an order of magnitude better than the
Curtis (power output, configurability, data logging, diagnosis etc) but
there is currently a bit of a lead time on Zillas.
(Not really a problem if you are still in the planning stages)
A 9" motor from either Netgain or ADC will easily push an MX5 along very
quickly.
Mark
At 12:10 PM 15/02/07 -0500, David Roden wrote:
>On 15 Feb 2007 at 22:06, Ian Hooper wrote:
>
> > So far the plans are fairly modest <snip>
>
>We have several other members from Australia. Show of hands?
(waves) G'day from the South Island of Australia (Tasmania)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One more suggestion to change the subject to "Sunrise" for all responses of
this thread, or I (and anybody else) will not be able to find the important
info about the Sunrise in the future....
I understand the kitcar principle,
my father used to like windsurfing.
First he bought a complete board.
Then he wanted a style that was not available, so he bought plans and a
block of foam and material to copy the style of board he wanted.
Again later he just did it all by himself, designed his own board, then made
it from foam, carbonfiber and epoxy. You do need a heated garage space to be
able to bring it to a good end (in winter).
It seems that the Sunrise will be moving in the opposite direction ;-)
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 1:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Speaking of Hybrids
>> Remember, this is a composite car. The builder will have to bond the
>> various composite pieces together in any case.
Roger Stockton wrote:
> I was really hoping that you would be designing the kit such that the
> builder doesn't have to do any composite work at all. That is, the
> body/chassis would arrive as a single piece to which the builder would
> simply bolt on the suspension bits from the donor car(s), etc., and
> then attach the doors, etc.
Yes, eventually. But we are a year or two away from being able to do this.
The earliest adopters will just have a set of plans, and parts lists. As we
progress, and get some sales to fund things, we can offer key parts that
require tooling or molds. For instance, buying the chassis or body in pieces
that you assemble.
But labor is expensive. It will always be that the more you can do yourself,
the cheaper it will be to build.
> The adjustable/telescoping halfshaft that Roland came across certainly
> sounds like a perfect solution, if you can find them for the T-bird.
I found that these are parts from American Axle's plant in Three Rivers MI.
Interestingly enough, they make complete front and rear suspension packages.
I'm looking into whether they might be suitable.
> I don't suppose you'd consider widening the whole car by 3" so that
> the stock T'bird 61" track would fit within the still narrower than
> front track?
Just leave the body as-is, and use wheel rims with a negative offset. Or let
the wheels stick out the sides; the kids seem to think that's cool. :-P
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Crystal,
This is a PFC charger, so it won't play nice with your solar panels, if you
try plugging the charger directly into the panels. But it is one of the best
chargers for grid plug-in. The owner is on this list and will likely respond
to you, though he is extremely busy developing and shipping these units so
it may take a bit of time.
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 11:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV digest 6424
The site doesn't seem to tell me what this does exactly. It's a charger,
yes, but what good does it do me if I have to plug it into an AC outlet
anyway? I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this and how it works and
how it will afford me a greater range. Does it speed up the time required to
fully re-juice the batteries? Is it like the equivalent to using a
cigarette-lighter adapter for your cell phone (1-2 hours charging rather
than 5-6)? The website is spartan at best, and the information it provides
is limited in scope (at least for someone who has never done this before).
On Feb 16, 2007, at 1:18 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
> From: Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: February 16, 2007 1:18:42 PM CST
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: First post
>
>
> Crystal, never under estimate the power of google.
>
> http://www.manzanitamicro.com/
>
>
> Also read the archives on yahoo (link below), lots of people use these
> chargers (including me). All your questions will be answered with a
> little searching and reading.
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.flytheroad.com/
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
---------------------------------------------------
See the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Check the EVDL Archives:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
Check out the EV Photo Album: www.evalbum.com <http://www.evalbum.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
See http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/main2.htm look for ultra capacitor
stack
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
---------------------------------------------------
See the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Check the EVDL Archives: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
Check out the EV Photo Album: www.evalbum.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: February 16, 2007 1:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Capacitor Range Helper
Has anyone ever tried to extend range by using capacitors in parallel with
the motor / battery pack to buffer peak amps ?
How would one calculate the required capacitance ?
How would one calculate the amount of range extended or would this be only
from real world testing ??
What else would be needed in the circuit besides the capacitor bank ?
Maxwell has a 110 pound 63 Farad 125 VDC capacitor for $ 4000, but is
something this large necessary for a 120 volt DC system with a standard DC
Series Motor and Curtis controller ?
Maxwell ultracap has a max operating voltage of 135 VDC with 142 VDC surge
capacity, so you could not hook up to a fully charged 120 volt battery pack
until after pulling out of the garage.
It also has max continuous current of only 150 amps with a 700 amp max
current capacity, DC series resistance of 17 milli ohms and 14 milli ohms at
100 Hz.
Menlo Park III,
Bill
________________________________________________________________________
Interested in getting caught up on today's news?
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you go the AC route and higher voltage, then you will need 28 X 12 volt for
336 volts. I think using solar would keep you from ever being stranded. Nice
thing about the higher voltage is that it keeps wire diameter down to a nice
small size from the panels. Check the dimensions of a 10 watt solar panel and
multiply by 28 panels. AC inverter/controllers have a built in DC-DC converter
for your 12 volt loads so will not need seperate panels for that voltage. If
you can fit (28) 30 watt panels then with 9 hours exposure would generate 7500
watts and would recharge in about 4 days. Solar panels preduce the most power
on sunny COLD days. With this in mind, I would build a rack for your roof that
would allow air to pass under the panels. This would allow you to increase the
amount of panels by 50 % allowing for a little side to side overhang (about 5"
each side) and at the end of the van give you a nice little 4 to 6 foot sun
awning.
Bob
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OK, this is very helpful; thank you. OK, so Li-Io are out of the
question, at least for the next few years until the prices fall from
the stratosphere. My second choice would have been the Deep-Cycle Gel
batteries like the kind typically used in marine applications, and it
seems this is what you're suggesting. It would be great if I could
use the maintenance-free enclosed type instead of having to remember
to add water, but I guess if need be I could always remind myself in
iCal.
Charging in an RV park or public campground (less expensive than RV
parks these days it seems) sounds like a good idea for most days–what
about rest stops? Do they have AC outlets at any of those? Would it
ever be possible to run a long cord from the vehicle to an outlet in
the restroom of the building? Saving money anywhere I can will help a
lot.
A 125-watt solar panel is approximately 24"x48" right? So, 1000 watts
would need about 8 panels and would take up, say 16'?? I think a
Sprinter is only about 10' long. Are larger wattage panels only
slightly larger in dimensions? Would it be better to have a whole
bunch of smaller-watt panels strung together or a few much larger
panels? Does it really matter? I should be able to maintain my entire
interior arsenal with only one solar panel, and I may get one I can
carry with me in a backpack (foldable) to operate my laptop and
accessories. In any case, I obviously won't be able to afford to get
all of the panels straightaway; I'll have to start out with plug-in
charging for the most part. Solar panels have a long lifespan, don't
they? I'm hoping they could be an investment that eventually I'll
uninstall from the vehicle and install elsewhere after I'm done with
the van; is this possible, or would I have to replace the panels
nearly as often as the batteries?
I don't want to have to resort to diesel/electric hybrid, but I guess
if I can find no other viable solutions, I might have to consider it.
Is it any more difficult to do a hybrid conversion than an all-
electric one? See, I don't like doing all that maintenance on an ICE
engine, and I don't want to take the darn thing to a mechanic all the
time because the only one I trust to NOT rip me off is my uncle, and
he won't be traveling with me. Plus, messing with oil and fluids and
such isn't my idea of fun.
On Feb 16, 2007, at 12:31 AM, Robert Lemke wrote:
> Welcome to the group. I think the Sprinter is a perfect canidate
> for what you have in mind. For eff. I would go AC. This will help
> you decide http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/motor.htm
>
> I have crunched some numbers. Lio ion are great batteries but
> would take a $50 grand investment. I suggest you deal with the
> weight and choose AGM batteries. Your Sprinter with its diesel
> knocks down 25 mpg, so with an AC motor I would guess around 350
> whr/mile. So to have a 75 mile range would require a bank of 27kw/
> hr. AGM's would weigh 1900 lbs. In your travels, when you max out
> your range pull into an RV park for an overnight stay. This would
> top off your dischared batteries overnight. If you have room for
> 1000 watts in panels and can get 9 hours exposure, then you need 3
> days to recharge.
>
> Bob
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I just joined this list yesterday, and I've considered going electric
> for quite some time but only started seriously researching it last
> week. I'm not really "into" cars as it were, I just use them to get
> from point A to point B, but my uncle's a mechanic with over 30-35
> years' experience and has agreed to help me do a conversion, and
> although he seemed to be somewhat familiar with the terminology and
> other information I've learned from my research, I don't think he's
> ever actually done an EV conversion before. But he said he was
> willing to help me out, so I have started collecting as many details
> as possible. I've found parts suppliers, online instructions from
> others who have done their own conversions, and lots of enthusiasm
> for EVs in general; I have also, however, found much conflicting
> information about what is and isn't possible, along with a lot of
> gloom-and-doom nay-sayers who insist none of the effort is worth the
> end result. I am convinced this is something I want to do, but I have
> to get the logistics worked out and figure out how I can make it work
> for my situation. Perhaps some of you could help me.
>
> This message is long; I apologize; I'm very serious about learning
> how to do this properly, so I may seem a bit overzealous in my
> enthusiasm.
>
> First, do ALL conversions have to be tiny cars? I love the tiny cars
> as a rule, but for this application it's not possible. I'm not
> looking to convert a behemoth or anything, as I'm just as disgusted
> by those as many EV enthusiasts are. The vehicle I'm hoping to
> convert is something like a Dodge Sprinter (the short body 118"
> version, which is about the length of a mini-van, but I need to get
> the high roof version, which measures 73" or 6 ft standing room from
> floor to ceiling), and it will be empty when I start except for the
> front driver/passenger seats. I won't be loading it up with junk,
> just modest camping/office accommodations and I'll be powering all my
> electricity-requiring stuff by a solar panel. I need enough power to
> propel the vehicle at highway-legal speeds for as long of a range as
> possible given the current battery technologies available (perhaps
> Lithium-Polymer, as suggested on a site by a guy who outlined his
> conversion in detail), but I'm not pre-occupied with any of the
> performance-type concerns of sports car people. 55-65 mph would be
> plenty, as long as it won't creep like a turtle while going up a
> hill. It needs to transport me and my two small lap-size dogs, plus
> my gear, which is miniscule compared to most people's standards, and
> I'd like to use regenerative braking to help with some of the energy
> generation, plus I'd like to connect solar panels (separate from the
> one that will run my laptop, etc.), NOT to recharge while driving
> necessarily as I've read that doesn't really work all that well, but
> instead to recharge on the days I'm NOT driving, such as while
> sitting in a national park or campground. So I need to find
> instructions on how to actually hook up the batteries to roof-mounted
> solar panels rather than stationary panels at a home location. It
> will be much lighter overall than a factory-built camper van, as I
> will be building the interior myself, sans most of the heavy stuff
> they usually stick in those things.
>
> Whew, that was a mouthful. I may have forgotten something, but I'm
> sure it'll come out during the course of this discussion.
>
> I'll be fully self-contained for extended periods in this vehicle,
> taking photographs, writing essays, and remotely working with my
> laptop and wireless card. I will plug into grid power when available,
> but I don't want to have to rely on any outside sources during my
> travels. I realize that I won't be able to drive every day because
> some days will be "charging only" days, and I know I'm not going to
> be able to drive for hours and hours without stopping (unless I can
> find some feasible batteries that provide more range than what I've
> been able to find thus far). Although the vehicle will be for long-
> distance travel, it's not like a race or anything. It's for driving a
> couple hours, then stopping to work for several hours and take
> photographs at various locations during daylight hours then charging
> the batteries the next day while working on-site, then heading off
> the next day with a full charge. During this time, I'll be doing
> multiple things: freelancing, operating a website, and working on a
> doctorate, and I plan to travel only where it's not cold (spring/
> summer/fall in colder climates, year-round in places with warm
> climates). But becoming energy-independent is very important to me
> and I am determined to alleviate fossil fuels.
>
> I hope I'm explaining this clearly enough, as I know I can get chatty
> and ramble on when I get excited.
>
> I also realize that what I'm proposing will probably draw a lot of
> negative responses from people who say it's just not possible, but I
> don't care, I'm going to do it anyway, so the more helpful
> information I can collect the better. I will find a way to make it
> work successfully; it's just non-negotiable. I won't give up until I
> figure it out; it's an integral part of my overall mission. If I need
> to make certain concessions in some places to make it work, then I'll
> consider that once all alternatives have proven ineffective.
>
> Second major issue: I need to figure out the maximum number of
> batteries I can put into the thing without it weighing me down so
> much that it negates their value. I also would prefer not to blow up,
> of course. ;-) From what I've read so far, it appears that for my
> application, AC would be better than DC, but correct me if you think
> I'm mistaken. I'm wondering if it's possible to mount batteries
> underneath the van, as there's extra space not available in a small
> car (much like those who convert pickups put batteries in the truck
> bed), and how far above the ground do the need to be, etc? What's the
> maximum amps each battery can have, as I've found deep-cycle
> batteries available up to over 200 amp hours. I'm probably going to
> need 12-volt instead of 6-volt, but I could be wrong there too.
>
> How many batteries can go with each controller, motor, etc? Is it
> possible to have two separate systems that I can flip a switch
> between? For example, to run the vehicle off one set while charging
> the other via solar? This may sound silly, but I haven't found any
> info yet that specifically says this is impossible, so I have to ask.
>
> I need to be as economical as humanly possible given the parameters I
> need to achieve, so any details about how much all this will cost
> (except the solar, as I've already found the info I need about that)
> and where to get the best deal on the electric conversion parts would
> be most appreciated.
>
> OK, I've wasted enough of your time tonight; hopefully I will learn
> more about this from all of you.
>
> One last question: Is it possible to receive these messages in digest
> format? I only joined yesterday and I've already received nearly 200
> individual messages, and my inbox is difficult to navigate as a
> result.
>
> If you've actually read this far, thanks a bunch for your time,
>
> Crystal :-)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 2/16/2007 2:35:55 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Yes, I know it's better than wasting the oil, but I just think
they're getting a little greedy that's all. I'd be doing them a
service, after all by taking their trash off their hands so they no
longer have to deal with it. Yes, I'm becoming a bit of a cheapskate,
but it's a necessary evil for me at the moment that can't be easily
remedied. ;)
I'll keep reading up on it. We'll see what happens. Thanks for the info!
Welcome to Econ 101!
The used cooking oil USED to be a liability that the resturants had to pay
someone to haul off because it had very little "value" (other than soap
making and the like). They were thrilled when some odd "greenie" would come
by to
take the stuff to put in his/her diesel Mercedes....Now that more folks are
burning it in their vehicles and the "value" is going up, there's a price
attached to it....This value will make darn certain that this oil won't get
thrown away anymore....
The same forces WILL affect us in the EV scene if these vehicles really
catch on (as we hope they will). You think batteries are expensive NOW? Wait
'til every tenth car is using them as "fuel"....Get enough of us out there and
the local/state govts will figure out we're getting a "free ride" on the
local infrastucture by avoiding paying gas taxes and start coming up with
"permits" and the like to get OUR pound of flesh. At the moment, it's sort of
nice
to be "unique, odd and early adopters", flying under the taxman's radar ( at
1.6 cents a mile!)....
Matt Parkhouse
Colorado Springs, CO
BMW m/c-Golf Cart trike - 48 volts, 30mph on the flat, 35 mile range
1972 VW Van - to be converted this year!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Errrr - I should change the subject myself, I guess ;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Cor van de Water
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 4:15 PM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: RE: Speaking of Hybrids
One more suggestion to change the subject to "Sunrise" for all responses of
this thread, or I (and anybody else) will not be able to find the important
info about the Sunrise in the future....
I understand the kitcar principle,
my father used to like windsurfing.
First he bought a complete board.
Then he wanted a style that was not available, so he bought plans and a
block of foam and material to copy the style of board he wanted.
Again later he just did it all by himself, designed his own board, then made
it from foam, carbonfiber and epoxy. You do need a heated garage space to be
able to bring it to a good end (in winter).
It seems that the Sunrise will be moving in the opposite direction ;-) Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 1:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Speaking of Hybrids
>> Remember, this is a composite car. The builder will have to bond the
>> various composite pieces together in any case.
Roger Stockton wrote:
> I was really hoping that you would be designing the kit such that the
> builder doesn't have to do any composite work at all. That is, the
> body/chassis would arrive as a single piece to which the builder would
> simply bolt on the suspension bits from the donor car(s), etc., and
> then attach the doors, etc.
Yes, eventually. But we are a year or two away from being able to do this.
The earliest adopters will just have a set of plans, and parts lists. As we
progress, and get some sales to fund things, we can offer key parts that
require tooling or molds. For instance, buying the chassis or body in pieces
that you assemble.
But labor is expensive. It will always be that the more you can do yourself,
the cheaper it will be to build.
> The adjustable/telescoping halfshaft that Roland came across certainly
> sounds like a perfect solution, if you can find them for the T-bird.
I found that these are parts from American Axle's plant in Three Rivers MI.
Interestingly enough, they make complete front and rear suspension packages.
I'm looking into whether they might be suitable.
> I don't suppose you'd consider widening the whole car by 3" so that
> the stock T'bird 61" track would fit within the still narrower than
> front track?
Just leave the body as-is, and use wheel rims with a negative offset. Or let
the wheels stick out the sides; the kids seem to think that's cool. :-P
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Get enough of us out there and
> the local/state govts will figure out we're getting a "free ride" on the
> local infrastucture by avoiding paying gas taxes and start coming up with
> "permits" and the like to get OUR pound of flesh.
That has already happened. Oregon, and perhaps other states, has already
put an additonal tax on hybrids and electric vehicles.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Its a remodeled Carver. Its the only production
tilting 3 wheeler that I am aware of. They have been
out as an ICE for a couple years. Looks like they are
going to offer an EV model.
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.flytheroad.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> See the New Beetle EV project
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> Check the EVDL Archives:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
>
>
> Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
>
>
> Check out the EV Photo Album: www.evalbum.com
> <http://www.evalbum.com/>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel
bargains.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Feb 16, 2007, at 11:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The site doesn't seem to tell me what this does exactly. It's a
charger, yes, but what good does it do me if I have to plug it into an
AC outlet anyway? I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this and
how it works and how it will afford me a greater range. Does it speed
up the time required to fully re-juice the batteries?
Well, you can't just plug an EV into AC power. You have to convert it
to DC and match up the voltage and amps to what is required. The
Manzanita PFC charger does that very well. It can be adjusted over a
wide voltage range to match your chosen battery pack and you can set
the current limit to keep from popping the power line breakers (up to
the current limit of each model.) The PFC stands for Power Factor
Correction, a subject that is a pain to fully get a handle on, but the
short of it is that you can get more power out of a breaker without it
popping off if the power factor is better. The last feature a charger
needs is the ability to shut off when the pack is charged. The PFC
handles that too.
The PFC is not the only charger available, but per amps of charging
capacity its very reasonably priced. When you find chargers promoting
more amps for the dollar you want to check closely to make sure they
are not taper chargers (taper chargers generally list peak charging
amps, but the amp level tapers back as the battery voltage rises so
they can often be slower than a constant current voltage regulated
charger of 1/2 the amp rating.)
But I thought that's what this list was for, to ask questions and
learn from others. If I'm not allowed to do that, then what's the
point of being a member of the list? I figured maybe as someone with
experience with this particular item would be able to give me more
information about it without my having to suffer through marketer
speak on the company's website.
By all means you should ask about particular EV products here on the
list. Reading the manufacturers web site is also good, while uses here
are likely to have experience with the product in the field. EVers
experience with the PFC line of chargers has been very positive. I have
one on order right now myself (a basic PFC-20 - my garage is very power
limited.)
You should also continue with your own research. Every EV is different
and new products become available while old ones go away. The widest
range of opinions just gives you more options. A little digging in the
EV list archive will also tell you more about the background of the
individuals offering advice.
HTH,
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Just be aware that the Sprinter *is* the VW Eurovan, with a different
nameplate! So most comments about the VWs apply to the Sprinters, too.
Lee, are you sure about that? My research has indicated that the Dodge
Sprinter is made by Daimler/Chrysler using a Mercedes Benz Turbo Diesel
and a heavy duty (1 ton) RWD van chassis. That's nothing like the VW
Vanagon/Eurovan FWD design.
Nick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Can you say "Sunrise"? :-)
It's an ultralight aerodynamic car that can carry half its weight in
batteries. With GM/Ovonic nimh batteries from an EV1, it has gone over
400 miles on a charge. With lithium ions, it could go even farther!
You definitely have something there. You have said item. Is said
item marketable and desirable? Is the price right? Is it affordable?
Can it be mass produced? Is it going to be mass produced? Where and
how and by who?
People will want to know how much it costs, what it will do for them,
and how is it better then what they currently have.
You have said item and you want X amount of money from me from it.
First I have to desire it. I have to crave it. I have to want to
spend and allocate X amount of my income towards to. What is the
appeal? What is the fun factor? Is this purely an economical
decision? Will I save X amount of dollars per year commuting to work
in your vehicle instead of my current vehicle and will the up front
purchase price be amortized over X amount of years?
Those are the cold hard questions being faced by every single form of
transportation on offer today. Why a person wants and buys a Honda or
Toyota instead of anything else? The eternal question. Some people
only drive pickup trucks.
What market will this vehicle go after and have you identified this market?
Will these vehicles be built to order and will you personally be hand
building each one? One thing people don't like is having to wait for
something they just paid big money for. I see the complaints and
dissatisfaction all the time with those Cobra kit cars. If someone
buys, they will want it right there and then.
The Sunrise will have to be a more economical choice to commute in
vs's people's existing Honda or Toyota they currently drive. Or are
you going after a different market?
Building the car is relatively easy compared to marketing it and being
able to sell it at a low price point.
One model at one price will be a love it or hate it affair.
Several configurations of the same vehicle will potentially appeal to everyone.
The bare bones economical model for those buying one based purely on
saving money from not having to buy gasoline to fuel it.
The luxury model for those who must have a really nice interior.
The performance model.
If you notice in the magazines, the vehicles that get reviewed always
get faulted one way or another. Partially because the manufactures
try and build one size fits all. The reviewer will dock them on fuel
mileage, performance, cheap interior, rough ride, poor handling.
What if they made a version of the vehicle to each of those or even a
combination of a few so they in no way could be faulted? How can you
fault me for poor fuel mileage when I made a model just for that? I
made a version that handles well and a version that has a nice ride
quality.
But the OEM's seemingly never learn. The reviewers say the `05 up
Mustangs have a cheap interior. Well that's what Ford gets for only
offering that particular interior as it is. They could change to a
better one, or offer an additional interior that directly deals with
that complaint. They say the ride is poor. Well offer both the solid
rear axle and IRS. Poor mileage? Stick a motor in there that gets
good mileage if that is what some people want. Too expensive? Sell a
bare bones vehicle to the extreme. That way the base model price
could be advertised as being $9,999 or something. I don't mind manual
locks and windows and plain seats. Give me steel wheels and no radio
so I can install the aftermarket wheels and radio of my choice. MUST
the heater be mandatory in every vehicle that is currently being made?
How often does said heater get used in certain locals? Could
Canadian cars get by with no AC if it docked ~$2,000 off the price of
the vehicle? If I don't want heat or AC, I shouldn't be forced to pay
for it. You know all that "standard equipment" that is on most of the
window sticker of a new vehicle? Every single item on there should be
an option. I've seen the assembly line. It should be no big deal at
all to install or not install an item or install either this item or
that item. Which dash? This one or that one?
--- End Message ---
