--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Cor,
I have a 12V intelligent charger so I will put each on that in turn.
The other thing I noticed is that the voltage dropped significantly
under load and bounced back up much more than usual (normally there's
a delta V of about 3 volts between full and no load)
Presumably that's also indicative of poor batteries?
Regards
NIkki.
DC [EMAIL
PROTECTED])¢Ë\¢{Z{~Û×^g¬±¨ ~æjÛ.r¬jvµ§!y×âæ¯qªÝ 3 ~æjÛbâ²Û¶Èì¹çn¢yriÇ ¦ÓË StÈ*.®,¶)à±Ø¬¦V²¶¬ë,j²¢êæj)i®+jh¬lzÛh±éÝ<°51LãKa©Ý籧cºËbDate: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 10:55:27 -0800
Subject: Re: At what cd (drag coef) and roof size for a van would the drag of
the vehicle be less than the electricity generating rate of pv's on the
roof?
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To: [email protected]
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From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
We had that argument over on the solar racers forum. The race was
looking for input.
Unfortunately current participants like things the way they are because
of their prior investment in current technology. So little was changed.
It will take a new race organizer and then they will be left in the
dust.
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 8:42 am, Lee Hart wrote:
> Danny Miller wrote:
>> Well keep in mind that the solar racers use rather "extreme"
>> construction. They are far from being practical vehicles in terms of
>> seating room, cargo capacity, durability, and safety.
>
> That's for sure! It's a bit unfortunate, in fact. The solar racers seem
> to be stuck in a rut, doing the same things over and over, rather than
> innovating. Do you realize it's been over 20 years since the GM
> Sunraycer?
>
> It would indeed be interesting if they changed the mission, and raised
> the bar. What would solar cars look like if they had to accomplish a
> "standard" 30-mile daily commute in normal traffic?
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 10:40:07 -0800
From: Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Looking for crimp dies for very small ring terminals
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Don,
I can't seem to locate any non-insulated terminal crimper in the sizes
you mentioned -- do you know the P/N?
Don Cameron wrote:
> I notice mouser has a lot of expensive crimpers from Tyco in the 24=30 ga -
> might any of these work?
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> See the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> Check the EVDL Archives: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
>
> Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
>
> Check out the EV Photo Album: www.evalbum.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Eric Poulsen
> Sent: February 17, 2007 5:36 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Looking for crimp dies for very small ring terminals
>
> I have a bunch of 26/24 ga non-insulated ring terminals, but I have no
> bottoming die to crimp them with. I can get by using the 22/18ga crimp
> notch on a pair of cheap crimp/cut/strip tools, but it lacks repeatability.
>
> Does anyone know _definitively_ (please, no "this site / store has a whole
> bunch of die types" -- I've searched the sites already) where I can get a
> die set (ideal /paladin style) that will crimp ring terminals
> this small? Alternatively, does anyone know of a die that's not for
> uninsulated ring terminals, but will crimp them properly, or does anyone
> have any suggestions on how to do reliable repeatable crimps?
>
>
>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:04:09 -0800
Subject: Re: More Comments WAS Re: NiMH Batteries (was Re: Introductions)
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To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Frankly the biggest reason to go electric is to stop giving oil
monopolies- which of course starts in arab dictators hands - our
money.
And personally lately I have been more motivated by getting rid of
pollution than global warming issues. Frankly the global warming change
is already embedded but still needs to be quickly minimized but it is
the pollution I am breathing in the city and the clouds in the sky from
the airplanes that are pissing me off.
It just amazes me we allowed aerial dumping and just got used to
havening our air be a dump that polluts EVERYONE's yard and lungs.
It won't be long before people are selling clean air piped into wealthy
homes.
Yeah you laughed at bottled water 15 yrs ago too.
> Gunna add a few comments to all this thoughtful response from Joe?
>
> Congress should get off it's collective dead ass, and declare a
> National
> Emergency. The Prez? Yeah, right? He will be too busy with other fluff;
> Amending the Constutution, stopping Gay Marriage, protecting the Oil
> Companies"God given" right to drill in national parks, or free leeases
> for
> oil producing areas. Ya get my point,?Throwing more lives into a no-win
> war,
> over, hand me the envelope, please;.... Oil!!
>
> In MY perfect World, Washington Div. I would have the Prez get on
> the
> Tube, Not, You Tube, and declare a National Energency. Apeal to
> American's
> patriotic pride and SERIOUSLY think of conversavation; Buy economical
> cars,
> use public transit. Scale down their wasteful lives a bit.The Battery
> patents we all need, as Doug points out, are HERE and Now. We
> Nationalize
> them, pay their owners what they are worth, no REALLY does Chevron NEED
> that
> royalty. Ha Ha! They have more money than Jesus , NOW! But this is Free
> Enterprise here, I'll play fair<g>!Raise the gas tax to pay for the
> battery
> rights. It should refllect what it really costs, anyhow?
>
> Order General Murders to get the EV-1 production line going. Toyota
> the
> Rav line, rattle Ford's cage to bring back the Think. Give the Othe Car
> Co's
> tax breaks to get some REAL EV's in production, like Tesla, the White
> Star
> Line, more than the Titanic, here. I think they were gunna do a "White
> Star"
> Car for the Rest of Us?
>
> Electrify city transit? Trolley's and Trackless trolleys, clean up
> the
> cities. Get those stinkin' Diseasel buses OUT of the cities. Throw a
> few bux
> to highway coach builders for at least hybrid Grey hounds( Hy hounds?)
> and
> Fung Hwa's. Fung Hwa is a BIG Chinese bus outfit in the East. Frankly I
> don't see WHY the Chinese want to be in the USA Bus Biz?I THINK it
> means
> Glorious Wind in English?The wonderful Chinese thing with names;
> Thunder Sky
> and Sacred Son, for batteries, come to mind.
>
> Start on a USA Bullet Train system, there are just too many
> Airplanes
> smoking up the upper atmosphere, EVERYWHERE! Yes we need them, but not
> so
> damn many. 200 plus wheeled(cheaper than Maglevs) trains should be
> doing the
> bulk of travel in USA. We all could live with a 6 hour NYC Miami train,
> Chicago NYC about the same. The 1934 speed record still stands for the
> Pioneer Zephyr.Chicago-Denver!Other than Amtrak's Acela Express we
> havent
> made much RR progress. Acela will do 150mph on the 30 miles of track we
> have
> good enough(streight) to open her up!Do your E mail in "Flight"Of
> course all
> electric, alota power made by wind turbines, in higher places.Or(gasp!)
> nukes.
>
> OK, down out of my fantesy world, but in reality, we have the tech
> smarts to roll back oil consumption here. NOT buy any more overseas,
> keeping
> our gold IN the USA for expensive RR, and transit projects. Jobs for
> Americans in America, NOT illegal aliens.Oh they are hard workers, but
> they
> send their pay HOME. Not into OUR economy.
>
> Why does it take a Nobody, like me, to see this? Nobody home in
> Washingtoon!? Dammit! We American Sheeple have to wake up, before it's
> too
> late.
> Yeah, money talks, runs the country, with the Best Govt. Oil Money
> can
> Buy. Seems like I'm pissing to windward here.? Is it too late? Stay
> tuned,
> for the next breathtaking saga.
>
> Back to EV's
>
> Bob
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:05:41 -0800
Subject: Re: Capacitor Range Helper
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To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Does city driving block by block count as stop start in these
circumstances?
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 9:14 am, Jeff Major wrote:
> Hi Bill,
>
> I have done some work in this regard, putting ultracapacitors with
> batteries. For a non-regen application, you are better off devoting
> the mass to more (or bigger) batteries, not to mention the money. Such
> a system can make sense in a stop-start intensive duty cycle when
> regeneration can recover kinetic energy to charge the capacitor each
> cycle.
>
> Jeff
>
> "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anyone ever tried to extend range by using capacitors in parallel
> with the motor / battery pack to buffer peak amps ?
> How would one calculate the required capacitance ?
> How would one calculate the amount of range extended or would this be
> only from real world testing ??
> What else would be needed in the circuit besides the capacitor bank ?
> Maxwell has a 110 pound 63 Farad 125 VDC capacitor for $ 4000, but is
> something this large necessary for a 120 volt DC system with a
> standard DC Series Motor and Curtis controller ?
> Maxwell ultracap has a max operating voltage of 135 VDC with 142 VDC
> surge capacity, so you could not hook up to a fully charged 120 volt
> battery pack until after pulling out of the garage.
> It also has max continuous current of only 150 amps with a 700 amp
> max current capacity, DC series resistance of 17 milli ohms and 14
> milli ohms at 100 Hz.
> Menlo Park III,
> Bill
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Interested in getting caught up on today's news?
> Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines.
> http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/front.htm?csp=24
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Bored stiff? Loosen up...
> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 14:06:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: At what cd (drag coef) and roof size for a van would the drag
of the vehicle be less than the electricity generating rate of pv's on
the roof?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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From: GWMobile
> We had that argument over on the solar racers forum. The race was
> looking for input. Unfortunately current participants like things the way
> they are because of their prior investment in current technology. So
> little was changed.
Yep! That's the same excuse the auto companies use for why they won't change!
:-)
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 450 HP in 60 little Orange Boxes!
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 14:21:10 -0500
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: 450 HP in 60 little Orange Boxes!
>
>
> > Hello to All,
> >
> > We have a new slogan at Plasma Boy Racing....11's in 07!
> >
> > I'm happy to report that Dick Brown (www.aerobatteries.com) pulled
> > through again for us this year and working with our sponsor Enersys, our
> > new 40% more powerful batteries have arrived!
>
> I know you are excited about your new power source but wouldn't the
proposed
> Firefly, Nanosafe and other chemestries be EVen more powerful. Are you
> looking over the hill yet or do you want to keep your cards close to your
> chest for now? Lawrence Rhodes Wouldn't a Firefly sponsorship be
> amazing!!!!!
> Hi Lawence an' All;
>
Can you actually BUY Fireflies yet?Are they real? Was hoping that they
are, as we are used to lead acids, of which Fireflies are a variation of?Are
they looking for test pilots?
Bob
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/693 - Release Date: 2/19/07
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:28:18 -0600
From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: At what cd (drag coef) and roof size for a van would the drag
of the vehicle be less than the electricity generating rate of pv's
on the roof?
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Well let's be specific.
I see a figure of 179Wh/mi for the EV1. At 70mph, that's 12.530KW.
Simple aero rules tell me this whole idea of wh/mi being a constant is
flawed, drag goes up with the square of velocity. I'd expect the upper
end of the range to take more power than this linear prediction.
But let's say the wh/mi is no more than that prediction. OK, pulling a
random solar panel, here's an 80W in 47.28" x 20.88". That's 80W under
a "standardized" condition- not being clear weather in the afternoon in
the sunny part of the year in latitudes near the equator will lower it.
So we need 156.6 of these, or 1074 sq ft of panelling. Note that even
coverting the EV1's surface to flat panels will probably majorly spoil
its drag coefficient. Making the vehicle the size of a house will of
course turn that drag coefficient into something completely different.
At this point the power (and panel area) requirements could be 5x, 10x,
whatever times the original power estimate for a vehicle of this size
and shape.
A roof of a sedan might hold an 80W, 6.86 sq ft panel and you could
leave it in the parking lot in full sun. Let's assume during an 8 hr
workday you get 6 hrs of decent sunshine (morning and late afternoon are
weaker). That regenerates 2.68 miles of EV1 range per day.
EV1 is an extreme example too. The wh/mi for any vehicle you are likely
to get ahold of is going to be greater. And the EV1 itself would
certainly not see the same wh/mi figure with a big flat solar panel on
front.
Danny
Bob Rice wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 11:39 AM
>Subject: Re: At what cd (drag coef) and roof size for a van would the drag
>of the vehicle be less than the electricity generating rate of pv's on the
>roof?
>
>
>
>
>>Danny Miller wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Well keep in mind that the solar racers use rather "extreme"
>>>construction. They are far from being practical vehicles in terms of
>>>seating room, cargo capacity, durability, and safety.
>>>
>>>
>>That's for sure! It's a bit unfortunate, in fact. The solar racers seem
>>to be stuck in a rut, doing the same things over and over, rather than
>>innovating. Do you realize it's been over 20 years since the GM Sunraycer?
>>
>>It would indeed be interesting if they changed the mission, and raised
>>the bar. What would solar cars look like if they had to accomplish a
>>"standard" 30-mile daily commute in normal traffic?
>>
>>
>
> Hi EVerybody;
>
>
>>-- Interesting point, Lee. Could they be "Hardened" up to survive real
>>
>>
>world traffic?Then they may be of Freedom EV weight. not a bad thing? But of
>what I have scene of solar cars is their freight train acceleration rate.
>You would be run over by the idiot in a Hummer(Rymes with Bummer)He wouldn't
>even SEE it, much less feel hitting it!You might be able to drive FLA's back
>roads in a solar job, but in CT's snowstorms? Forgetaboutit!Yeah we actually
>HAD snow the other day. It's GREAT! Only about 2 inches, with ice topping.
>It is like concrete!Frozen, to a point you would need a rock drill to
>remove, but you can drive on it without even leaving tire trax!Back a truck
>of firewood over the lawn, without leaving a mark!It's 15 degreez,
>now!Winter has cought up to us, for sure!
>
> The Solar car tech; the super light construction? Yeah! Whynot? But ya
>need to come in somewhere between Sunraycer and a Rabbit conversion. Yup,
>The Sunrise and Freedom EV. Were working on that. Stay tuned.
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>
>
>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:56:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Capacitor Range Helper
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Hi GW,
Sure, city driving may qualify as stop-start duty. There is no hard and fast
rule. I was working with commerical vehicles and used driving cycles
established for city transit buses. These had 5 to 10 stops per mile. A
buffer will benefit you the most when you have a lot of peaks and valleys
(accels and regens). I don't think you can justify it if you have a few
traffic stops and then miles and miles on the freeway.
Jeff
GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Does city driving block by block count as stop start in these
circumstances?
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 9:14 am, Jeff Major wrote:
> Hi Bill,
>
> I have done some work in this regard, putting ultracapacitors with
> batteries. For a non-regen application, you are better off devoting
> the mass to more (or bigger) batteries, not to mention the money. Such
> a system can make sense in a stop-start intensive duty cycle when
> regeneration can recover kinetic energy to charge the capacitor each
> cycle.
>
> Jeff
>
> "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" wrote:
> Has anyone ever tried to extend range by using capacitors in parallel
> with the motor / battery pack to buffer peak amps ?
> How would one calculate the required capacitance ?
> How would one calculate the amount of range extended or would this be
> only from real world testing ??
> What else would be needed in the circuit besides the capacitor bank ?
> Maxwell has a 110 pound 63 Farad 125 VDC capacitor for $ 4000, but is
> something this large necessary for a 120 volt DC system with a
> standard DC Series Motor and Curtis controller ?
> Maxwell ultracap has a max operating voltage of 135 VDC with 142 VDC
> surge capacity, so you could not hook up to a fully charged 120 volt
> battery pack until after pulling out of the garage.
> It also has max continuous current of only 150 amps with a 700 amp
> max current capacity, DC series resistance of 17 milli ohms and 14
> milli ohms at 100 Hz.
> Menlo Park III,
> Bill
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Interested in getting caught up on today's news?
> Click here to checkout USA TODAY Headlines.
> http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=198954&u=http://www.usatoday.com/news/front.htm?csp=24
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Bored stiff? Loosen up...
> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
---------------------------------
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:04:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Solar commuters
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>> What would solar cars look like if they had to accomplish a
>> "standard" 30-mile daily commute in normal traffic?
From: Bob Rice
> Interesting point, Lee. Could they be "Hardened" up to survive real
> world traffic?
Solar cars are built to precisely fulfill "the mission". Their mission was
defined for operation on smooth straight empty roads at low speeds. That's
pretty far from a normal commute to/from work!
I would propose an entirely new set of rules, which would encourage completely
different cars. Call it a "solar commuter". Maybe something like:
- Carry 1 person plus "cargo" totalling 300 lbs (briefcase, grocery bags).
- Legally licensed as a motorcycle, automobile, or NEV.
- Drive 15 miles in 30 minutes ("to work") on ordinary roads
(perhaps using the EPA's urban driving cycle for standardization).
- Park 9 hours ("at work"), during which you can charge using whatever
you brought with you in the car (might be solar, wind, plug-in, etc.)
- Drive 15 miles in 30 minutes ("home"), again using a pattern designed
to simulate normal urban driving.
The "winner" is the one that can do this using the least amount of "fuel".
Solar and wind are essentially free. Work out a "standard" cost for every other
fuel (cost of electricity, hydrogen, alcohol, gasoline, or any other external
fuels).
This would encourage participants to design cars that *could* be practical as
daily drivers, while still leaving room for wildly innovative and clever
"outside the box" designs.
--
Lee Hart
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Subject: RE: Commutator Controller
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:12:19 -0800
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Lee Hart wrote:
> Changing the system voltage has other complications; it requires
> changing the battery boxes, charger and instrumentation as well.
> Essentially, starting all over with new wiring.
Now, now, it really isn't that bad. Raising the pack voltage might
require changing the battery boxes, but dropping from 108V to 96V
doesn't. This change requires merely moving the pack positive lead down
by two 6V batteries; the two unused batteries don't even have to be
removed, though removing them and replacing them with a suitable spacer
would lighten things up.
> The Soleq hardware is very well made. I'm sure it would be
> fixable, if someone only had the schematics and service
> information. But so far, it hasn't surfaced.
Well, no-one says he has to discard the Soleq components; he can hang on
to them in the hope that someone will surface to service them, or can
try to reverse engineer them at his leisure. If he wants to use the EV,
however, he needs to either pay the cost to have someone fix the present
system (if anyone will step up to the task), or to replace it with
something else.
It is just my opinion, of course, but any sort of series
controller/manual field control or contactor setup would seem to be an
unacceptable hack. If the series controller option is considered most
attractive by virtue of allowing the instrumentation and charger and
DC/DC to be retained (though the Soleq DC/DC is integrated into the
defunct controller isn't it?), then I would swap the sep-ex motor out
for a conventional series motor rather than trying to hack something
together to run the separate field (and to allow the series controller
to work properly without the field inductance).
The option that would result in a vehicle that preserves most/all of the
functionality of the original (ease of use, regen, etc.) is to install a
96V sep-ex controller and update the charger, instrumentation, and DC/DC
as appropriate. If the original DC/DC is part of the failed controller
then its replacement cost factors out as it is required no matter what.
It seems to me that replacing the charger and instrumentation with 96V
compatible devices would be cheaper and easier than installing a series
motor...
Cheers,
Roger.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Off Topic Biodiesel (was Re: First post)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:34:17 -0800
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Umm I kinda want to keep a opening here for Biodiesel and Bio friendly fuels
for EV support and Gen carts.
I just got a 12KVA Propane powered gen set that is surplus from the December
wind storms.
And Tom...look out the window it's blowing like heck again up here in Kitsap
Co Washington.
I might just refill the propane bottles and drag it over here to the house
today... Stuff is flying around the driveway again. And there has been a
flicker or two on the grid already.
Clearly I intend to use this gen set to charge EVs and Plug in hybrids.
What I really want is to have a array of Bio friendly Carbon neutral power
sources available for Demonstrations and Racing support when we can't get
that wonderful 400 amp Feed at PIR.
Olympic Biodiesel is one of my locals... and I would like to use their
product when they come on line. This is a direct Biofuel to EV path...So..
it has some real EV merit.
On thing I want to do is have a chart that has Gallons of Bio???? to Kwhr
stored in battery pack. REAL data that reflects real product and the total
conversion Eff from Hose to Kwhr in the pack.
The EV world has a lot of data that is extracted from unknown sources and
over quoted, and not verified.
A little back yard testing and some meters.. and we will know a lot more.
Anybody got a TDI diesel that we can GEN cart in the Seattle area??? My old
Metro powered gen cart needs to be Grease powered...
Rich Rudman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manzanita Micro
360-297-7383,
Cell 360-620-6266
Production shop 360-297-1660
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:06:44 -0800
From: Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: More Comments WAS Re: NiMH Batteries (was Re: Introductions)
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actually I think in Mexico City where air pollution is horrible, they
have phone booths you can pay to go into that have clean air...
GWMobile wrote:
> Frankly the biggest reason to go electric is to stop giving oil
> monopolies- which of course starts in arab dictators hands - our money.
>
> And personally lately I have been more motivated by getting rid of
> pollution than global warming issues. Frankly the global warming change
> is already embedded but still needs to be quickly minimized but it is
> the pollution I am breathing in the city and the clouds in the sky from
> the airplanes that are pissing me off.
>
> It just amazes me we allowed aerial dumping and just got used to
> havening our air be a dump that polluts EVERYONE's yard and lungs.
>
> It won't be long before people are selling clean air piped into wealthy
> homes.
>
> Yeah you laughed at bottled water 15 yrs ago too.
>
>
>> Gunna add a few comments to all this thoughtful response from Joe?
>>
>> Congress should get off it's collective dead ass, and declare a
>> National
>> Emergency. The Prez? Yeah, right? He will be too busy with other fluff;
>> Amending the Constutution, stopping Gay Marriage, protecting the Oil
>> Companies"God given" right to drill in national parks, or free leeases
>> for
>> oil producing areas. Ya get my point,?Throwing more lives into a
>> no-win war,
>> over, hand me the envelope, please;.... Oil!!
>>
>> In MY perfect World, Washington Div. I would have the Prez get on the
>> Tube, Not, You Tube, and declare a National Energency. Apeal to
>> American's
>> patriotic pride and SERIOUSLY think of conversavation; Buy economical
>> cars,
>> use public transit. Scale down their wasteful lives a bit.The Battery
>> patents we all need, as Doug points out, are HERE and Now. We Nationalize
>> them, pay their owners what they are worth, no REALLY does Chevron
>> NEED that
>> royalty. Ha Ha! They have more money than Jesus , NOW! But this is Free
>> Enterprise here, I'll play fair<g>!Raise the gas tax to pay for the
>> battery
>> rights. It should refllect what it really costs, anyhow?
>>
>> Order General Murders to get the EV-1 production line going. Toyota
>> the
>> Rav line, rattle Ford's cage to bring back the Think. Give the Othe
>> Car Co's
>> tax breaks to get some REAL EV's in production, like Tesla, the White
>> Star
>> Line, more than the Titanic, here. I think they were gunna do a "White
>> Star"
>> Car for the Rest of Us?
>>
>> Electrify city transit? Trolley's and Trackless trolleys, clean up the
>> cities. Get those stinkin' Diseasel buses OUT of the cities. Throw a
>> few bux
>> to highway coach builders for at least hybrid Grey hounds( Hy hounds?)
>> and
>> Fung Hwa's. Fung Hwa is a BIG Chinese bus outfit in the East. Frankly I
>> don't see WHY the Chinese want to be in the USA Bus Biz?I THINK it means
>> Glorious Wind in English?The wonderful Chinese thing with names;
>> Thunder Sky
>> and Sacred Son, for batteries, come to mind.
>>
>> Start on a USA Bullet Train system, there are just too many Airplanes
>> smoking up the upper atmosphere, EVERYWHERE! Yes we need them, but not so
>> damn many. 200 plus wheeled(cheaper than Maglevs) trains should be
>> doing the
>> bulk of travel in USA. We all could live with a 6 hour NYC Miami train,
>> Chicago NYC about the same. The 1934 speed record still stands for the
>> Pioneer Zephyr.Chicago-Denver!Other than Amtrak's Acela Express we havent
>> made much RR progress. Acela will do 150mph on the 30 miles of track
>> we have
>> good enough(streight) to open her up!Do your E mail in "Flight"Of
>> course all
>> electric, alota power made by wind turbines, in higher places.Or(gasp!)
>> nukes.
>>
>> OK, down out of my fantesy world, but in reality, we have the tech
>> smarts to roll back oil consumption here. NOT buy any more overseas,
>> keeping
>> our gold IN the USA for expensive RR, and transit projects. Jobs for
>> Americans in America, NOT illegal aliens.Oh they are hard workers, but
>> they
>> send their pay HOME. Not into OUR economy.
>>
>> Why does it take a Nobody, like me, to see this? Nobody home in
>> Washingtoon!? Dammit! We American Sheeple have to wake up, before it's
>> too
>> late.
>> Yeah, money talks, runs the country, with the Best Govt. Oil Money can
>> Buy. Seems like I'm pissing to windward here.? Is it too late? Stay
>> tuned,
>> for the next breathtaking saga.
>>
>> Back to EV's
>>
>> Bob
>
>
> www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
> and the melting poles.
>
> www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
>
>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:23:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Looking for crimp dies for very small ring terminals
To: [email protected]
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Hi Eric,
You might try Ideal 30-429 tool. It specs out down to 22 AWG for uninsulated
terminals, but I have used it a few times for smaller stuff with good
repeatable results, even with solid wire.
Jeff
Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have a bunch of 26/24 ga non-insulated ring terminals, but I have no
bottoming die to crimp them with. I can get by using the 22/18ga crimp
notch on a pair of cheap crimp/cut/strip tools, but it lacks repeatability.
Does anyone know _definitively_ (please, no "this site / store has a
whole bunch of die types" -- I've searched the sites already) where I
can get a die set (ideal /paladin style) that will crimp ring terminals
this small? Alternatively, does anyone know of a die that's not for
uninsulated ring terminals, but will crimp them properly, or does anyone
have any suggestions on how to do reliable repeatable crimps?
---------------------------------
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:35:27 -0500
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Subject: Re: Off Topic Biodiesel (was Re: First post)
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I concur whole-heartily Tom. That is why I referred Crystal to
http://evmechanic.net/evchatportal/index.php Electric, bio, and
alternative energy sources are broke out into categories ... something
you can't readily do in a list. Hopefully she'll find her way there to
make a post.
Tom Shay wrote:
> Please, let's not start talking about biodiesel here. It's an
> interesting subject
> but far off topic.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:38 AM
> Subject: Re: First post
>
>
>> Crystal,
>>
>> There are alot of great resources on the web regarding bio-diesel.
>> The website http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html has alot
>> of good information. Making bio-diesel is very easy. Using it in an
>> existing diesel engine is no different than that of fossil fuel
>> diesel. Does it smell different, yes. Will your car "wreak"? No
>> different than it does
>
>
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From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Why we need electric cars
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 13:55:05 -0700
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I subscribe to the Mother Earth Living mailing list, and they have an article
titled "Why We Need Electric Cars." They ask for comments. While I am trying
to drive an EV (when money permits - buying things aren't cheap, and justifying
to my wife...), I can't comment at the bottom of the page (listed below - I
hope it turns out). I thought that some of you might be able to comment to the
others who will read this. FWIW.
http://www.motherearthliving.com/issues/motherearthliving/green_transportation/Electric-Car_300-1.html?show_comments=1#read
Oh and by-the-way, I hope I am not reposting this. I can't keep up with all
the mail...
---- Msg sent via @=WebMail - http://webmail.usu.edu/
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 16:36:35 EST
Subject: Re: White Zombie 11s??no 10s
To: [email protected]
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John acording to the speedworld horsepower estimater your 2700lb car with 450
hp will run 10.61 at 129mph.You are going to fly this new year!!I hope my s10
can get close. D.Berube
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:45:39 -0900
From: MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: White Zombie 11s??no 10s
To: [email protected]
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Dennis,
What's your S10 gonna weigh at the track?
Are you going to be running lead? or Lithium?
How are you goint to handle the drop off at the top end?
Didn't you say you'd be running a 2 speed?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday, February 19, 2007 12:38 pm
Subject: Re: White Zombie 11s??no 10s
To: [email protected]
> John acording to the speedworld horsepower estimater your 2700lb
> car with 450
> hp will run 10.61 at 129mph.You are going to fly this new year!!I
> hope my s10
> can get close. D.Berube
>
>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 13:52:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Solar commuters
To: [email protected]
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This is perfect: the average US commute is 16 miles one-way. Which
organizations would be best suited to try to organize something like this?
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I would propose an entirely new set of rules, which would encourage completely
different cars. Call it a "solar commuter". Maybe something like:
- Carry 1 person plus "cargo" totalling 300 lbs (briefcase, grocery bags).
- Legally licensed as a motorcycle, automobile, or NEV.
- Drive 15 miles in 30 minutes ("to work") on ordinary roads
(perhaps using the EPA's urban driving cycle for standardization).
- Park 9 hours ("at work"), during which you can charge using whatever
you brought with you in the car (might be solar, wind, plug-in, etc.)
- Drive 15 miles in 30 minutes ("home"), again using a pattern designed
to simulate normal urban driving.
The "winner" is the one that can do this using the least amount of "fuel".
Solar and wind are essentially free. Work out a "standard" cost for every other
fuel (cost of electricity, hydrogen, alcohol, gasoline, or any other external
fuels).
This would encourage participants to design cars that *could* be practical as
daily drivers, while still leaving room for wildly innovative and clever
"outside the box" designs.
--
Lee Hart
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know.
Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 13:57:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Lemke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 450 HP in 60 little Orange Boxes!
To: [email protected]
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Now that was informative. Racing brings out the best in component
redesign. Keep up the good work John, I'm learning something here. I use the
Hawker 680's, is this the same as your new ones? Mine are also orange, rated
680 amps for 5 seconds and weigh 15 lbs. When purchased 2 years ago it had a 16
a/hr rating but the ones I see now on their web page are rated at 17 a/hr.
Bob
John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello to All,
We have a new slogan at Plasma Boy Racing....11's in 07!
I'm happy to report that Dick Brown (www.aerobatteries.com) pulled
through again for us this year and working with our sponsor Enersys, our
new 40% more powerful batteries have arrived! This year White Zombie
will again, be running on Hawker power, but instead of the 30 - 24.5 lb.
26 ahr Aerobatteries models we used last year, we will be using 60 of
the smaller Genesis model 16 ahr batteries. Yes, these are nearly the
same battery we ran with from '98 through '02, back when White Zombie
had 28 of them making up an ultra-light 378 lb. 336V battery pack.
Before they had been abused and super-heated to extreme hand-burning
levels, we could pull 750 amps from them with very few failures. Even
800 amps was doable for less than 10 seconds. Yeah, we did blow quite a
few of them up as the years were added on, but again, they only began to
fail after substantial abuse. Details for those interested, can be found
at the Plasma Boy web page...just click on the 'White Zombie History'
button and scroll to '1998 Early Version'.
There have been some changes made to these already terrific little
batteries over the years, the first and most obvious is that today they
are no longer labeled 'Hawker' since being bought out by Enersys. They
are now an Enersys 'Genesis 16 XE'. The Hawker electro-chemist at
Enersys I've been in close contact with, tells me the already beefy
inner-cell straps inside these tough bricks of power were thickened up
some more (yeah!) and their plate grid redesigned for even more
aggressive high current power delivery. Though still spec'ed out at 13.5
lbs. each, we weighed the new batteries on some pretty accurate scales
and they come in at 14 lbs. plus some change, so it seems that a bit
more lead is indeed, packed inside! Oh yeah, they're no longer black
like they used to be, and are that nice Hawker Odyssey orange color with
contrasting black labels.
So why are we going to run 60 of these smaller batteries over the 30
larger ones that produced that quick 12.151 @ 106.25 mph? The answer is
simple...A LOT MORE POWER!!! The Hawker guy says this battery is their
#1 most powerful battery in terms of power density, lb. for lb., than
any other battery in their line up. The 2nd most powerful is their
little 13 ahr, 10 lb. model, and the 3rd most powerful is the 26 ahr
models we have been using since '05. He and I had good discussions and
he confirmed that my observations of the earlier Hawker Genesis 16 EP
batteries we used to run years ago, were correct. Back then, when warmed
up they would sag to 6.9 volts at 750 amps current draw...this, out of a
13.5 lb. package. More recently, in early 2005 (check out the White
Zombie History page) when thanks to Dick Brown Hawker sponsorship
returned to the Plasma Boy team, I had my pick of any version I wanted.
A double string of the 16 ahr models was considered. However, the sheer
numbers of batteries, all the inter-connecting bus bars, plus the 70-90
lbs. of extra battery weight they would add, helped steer me away from
them. I really didn't fully understand the big difference in power
density these batteries had over their larger, heavier brothers, and I
chose 30 of the larger 26 ahr, 24.5 lb. models instead. Hey, it worked
out pretty good....low 12s aren't anything to be ashamed of :-)
Of course, we've learned a lot since then. Try as hard we did, with the
26 ahr models we just could not get any more power from the pack and
those 11's remained out of reach. Curves plotted from the Zilla's
Hairball told the story over and over...huge battery pack voltage sag
under load, especially after 4-5 seconds as the lead inner-cell straps
inside each battery heated up and became near-molten resistors. Last
year, those resistors became fuses as we began blowing batteries, too.
At 1000 amps (yeah, I know that's an awful lot to ask of a 24.5 lb. lead
acid battery) the batteries would initially only sag to about 8 volts
each (about 240V) and the power on launch and through most of the 1/8th
mile was fantastic, but after that as the inner-cell straps would go
near molten, the pack dropped to 180 volts (just 6V per battery), and
the car's acceleration would flatten out. Again, the Hairball curves
showed what was happening, and melted inner-cell straps don't lie. We
were clearly battery limited....time for a change. To be fair, the 26
ahr Aerobatteries performed above our expectations since they were rated
for 950 amps for 5 seconds, and certainly not designed to do 1000 amps
for 12 seconds! However, Hawker's electro-chemist agrees with me, that
the longer runs of lead strapping inside the 26 ahr batteries we had
been using the past two years were creating higher resistance under the
extreme currents we were drawing, and he again, told me about the stubby
thick inner cell straps and the more aggressive grid design on the
newest 16 ahr models.
The switch to 60 of these new, smaller Enersys 16 XE batteries is very
exciting, because the math looks very encouraging. One 26 ahr battery
weighs about 24 lbs. and sags to 6V @ 1000 amps, for 6 kw of power. Two
of the new little 16 XEs represent 28 lbs. but only sag to about 7
volts @ 750 amps each...that's 7V @ 1500 amps for 10.5 kw of power! That
works out to be a 50% power increase, so the claim of a 40% power
increase seems very believable. At 500 amps draw, each 16 XE might only
sag to 8 volts or so. Stay with me everyone....our best ET of 12.151 @
106 mph was done with the battery current limited to 1000 amps and the
pack sagged down to 180V, 180 kw of power for the last 3-4 seconds of
that run. Now...a new double string of the 16 XEs might fall to 8V per
battery at 500 amps near the end of a run for a pack sag of 240V @ 1000
amps....240 kw of power! That's a 35% power increase doing my
conservative seat-of-the-pants analysis. Sooooo...it seems if Tim and I
take it easy when we first go out with the car and leave the current
limit set at 1000 amps (even though we can now go as high as 1500 amps)
we'll still have an extra 80 hp to play with at the far end of the
track! We're thinking the car might bust into the high 11's without even
turning the screws up! Cranking up the juice eventually, to the full
1500 amps with warmed-up batteries, should only initially sag the pack
to about 7.5V per battery right off the line for a pinch more than 450
'battery' hp at launch! After that, the pack will get closer to 7V per
battery for the duration of the run. Like I said...11's in 07!
The new pack would have added about 90 lbs. weight to the car, but
careful attention to detail and lots of planning have cut that down
considerably. This past week and weekend's efforts, along with Marko's
metal shop expertise have produced all new battery compartments for the
car. The previous rear seat area compartment weighed 34 lbs....the new
one? Just 14 lbs.! The rear sunken trunk area tray with hold-downs
weighed about 16 lbs....the new one? Just under 5 lbs.! We've trimmed
more than 30 lbs. just in the battery compartments' redesign, and we're
still not done with the weight reductions. How'd we do it? Instead of
3/16 thick aluminum and a basic box with thick pedestal mounts and such,
we used thin sheet aluminum with lots of bends, creases, gussets, and
supports. We also cut out material where we could and used lighter
weight material in general. I'm still considering an aluminum Ford 9
inch casting that will trim up to 45 lbs. weight off that heavy rear
end. It's entirely possible to get the car to weigh less than the
previous version, even with 840 lbs. of hi pro lead in the car.
I'll be adding new photos to the web page soon. OK, I'll sit back now
and take the feedback from everyone. Am I nuts, or are we on the right
track? Will we fail to hit the 11s, or will White Zombie be required to
be fully caged when it hits an 11.5 this year when we dial-up the full
1500 amps?
One more thing....White Zombie will be a 'highlighted' car at the
upcoming Portland Roadster Show and will be displayed at the entrance
into the main arena of the show. This is quite an honor and a step
forward for EV acceptance in the hot rod world. The show promoters are
encouraging us to set up and loop videos of White Zombie taking out
classic muscle cars and hot rice burner imports. We are happy to accept
their request! Any local geek types with a big flat screen and computer
setup wanna lend us a hand? New Enersys and 'Genesis XE' stickers will
be affixed by show time, mirrors will let show-goers see the battery
packs, and NEDRA promo material will be on display and ready to hand
out. Should be a fun weekend. March 2nd, 3rd, and 4th.
See Ya......John Wayland
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