EV Digest 6448
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EV Spare Parts For Sale.
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EV Spare Parts For Sale.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: NiMH D size battery closeout
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: NiMH D size battery closeout
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: An idea for the EVAlbum
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Battery charger recommendation
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: NiMH D size battery closeout
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: An idea for the EVAlbum
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: At what cd (drag coef) and roof size for a van would the drag of the
vehicle be less than the electricity generating rate of pv's on the roof?
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: An idea for the EVAlbum
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: An idea for the EVAlbum
by "David O'Neel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Commutator Controller
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: NiMH D size battery closeout
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: NiMH D size battery closeout
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) "New" motors for the KillaCycle
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: NiMH D size battery closeout
by Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Battery charger recommendation
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: Battery charger recommendation
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) RE: EV conversion questions
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: NiMH D size battery closeout
by Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: "New" motors for the KillaCycle
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Electric Motorcycle History Help needed
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) EVLN(Concord ZAP dealer: "We cant make much of a profit")
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:26 PM 20/02/07 -0600, George wrote:
Community Marketplace
http://visforvoltage.net/forums/buy-sell-trad
G'day All
No, George, that is one of the dilution sites. THE community marketplace is at:
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/
OK?
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Contact Steve Clunn directly. He is at grassroots in Florida. He might
have a home for them. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 11:14 AM
Subject: EV Spare Parts For Sale.
> Hello list,
>
> I have a ring clamp and an adapter plate that would fit the Advanced DC
> Motors' FB-4001A 8" motor. The adapter plate is for a Ford Ranger, 1996,
I
> believe. To my knowledge, they have never been in a vehicle. I used my
own design
> when I converted my car. These are a little nicked up from being on a
shelf,
> but that's it.
>
> The ring clamp lists new for $194.25 at EVPARTS.COM. The adapter plate
new
> is probably around $275. I would like to get $225 for both parts.
>
> Pictures available upon request for serious inquirers.
> Let me know off the list, please!
>
> David in Georgia
> Ratliffgrp AT AOL DOT COM
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So five bucks for a 1.2v 10 ah battery. 50 bucks for a 10 ah 12v battery.
500 dollars for a 120v 10ah pack. Lawrence Rhodes........
> >
> > I think these are cheaper per AH:
> > http://www.onlybatteries.com/showitem.asp?ItemID=13768
> >
> > --
> > John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John's seems cheaper. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Hooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: NiMH D size battery closeout
> Cheapest (D cells) per Ah I've come across:
>
> http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=568
>
> On 21/02/2007, at 4:37 AM, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
>
> > At 11:19 AM 2/20/2007, Rick Todd wrote:
> >> I was snooping around the internet and stumbled upon a closeout of
> >> NiMH D
> >> size rechargeable cells. Here is the link if anyone is interested.
> >>
> >> http://www.onlybatteries.com/showitem.asp?
> >> ItemID=13883.61&cat1=14&uid=1425
> >
> > I think these are cheaper per AH:
> > http://www.onlybatteries.com/showitem.asp?ItemID=13768
> >
> > --
> > John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://
> > www.CasaDelGato.com
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a place for a url. Put your video there or a link from your url..
Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "David O'Neel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: An idea for the EVAlbum
> What about simply adding a link from youtube or google videos? I just
tested
> and apparently the site does not currently support this. Maybe that is a
> simple upgrade, but I doubt it.
>
> Good idea though
>
> On 2/20/07, Dmitri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > How about a video section?
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Russ,
You meant to link to this picture:
http://www.russcoev.com/images/oj_front_batteries.jpg
Because the link in your mail did not work.
Cor
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 12:53 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Battery charger recommendation
> Most of us on the list seem to be using Manzanita
> Micro:
>
> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD has my '92 sedan,
> as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
> Learn more at:
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
Really? I'm not. I have a Russco Charger.
http://www.russcoev.com/images/oj_front_batt
Mike's "EV Photo Album" shows the Zivan is by far the leader in EV battery
chargers.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/chrgr
And, according to my production records, the "EV Photo Album" represents
only a small fraction of actual charger sales. List EV owners are probably
more apt to list their vehicle on the "EV Photo Album" than "regular" EV
owners, but the proportion for comparisons should be fairly consistent.
Russ Kaufmann
RUSSCO Engineering
The Other PFC Charger With Built In GFCI
http://www.russcoev.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Subject: Re: NiMH D size battery closeout
Just a gentle reminder: Don't buy batteries based on price. Buy based on
*performance*. Don't belive any of the published "sales" data until you have
tested some yourself.
For an EV-sized pack you'll need hundreds of cells. Make a test order to see
what they really cost, and test them to see what you'll really get. Then decide
which is a better deal based on your actual performance data (and price).
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
how about a link( s ) to other discussion groups like ev mechanic ? they are
another resource?
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Rhodes<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: An idea for the EVAlbum
There is a place for a url. Put your video there or a link from your url..
Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "David O'Neel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: An idea for the EVAlbum
> What about simply adding a link from youtube or google videos? I just
tested
> and apparently the site does not currently support this. Maybe that is a
> simple upgrade, but I doubt it.
>
> Good idea though
>
> On 2/20/07, Dmitri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >
> > How about a video section?
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
the object was to win the contest with an ev that could drive a specfic course
carring 1 or 2 passengers and some groc.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Hart<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: At what cd (drag coef) and roof size for a van would the drag of
the vehicle be less than the electricity generating rate of pv's on the roof?
From: FRED JEANETTE MERTENS
>The roof does not have to be flat, and if you also use the sides, there IS
> an output even if it is somewhat lower...
True enough. The solar raycers use highly streamlined bodies, and cover every
available square inch with solar cells. The cells they use are slightly
flexible, and can conform to the curves so they don't add any wind resistance.
The drawback is economic. You wind up with many of your very expensive cells
in places where they rarely deliver even half their rated output. But if cost
is no object...
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Umm, David, why do you think the EV Album won't support a link to
YouTube? We have several pages linked already. I am not sure what
you did when you tested your link, since you changed it back again
already, but see page:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/840
for an example of working links to YouTube.
Something to keep in mind is all the data on the pages is stored in a
MySQL database by custom scripts, so it has to be formatted just so
to make it work. Links without the http:// beginning don't work. It
has to have that for the script to recognize it as a link. This
isn't plain vanilla html anymore.
I would suggest anyone wanting to post a video, post in on YouTube
then I can fix the link for them if they have a problem. YouTube is
setup to handle that kind of bandwidth, I would hate to overload the
Austin EV server with a lot of video traffic. Besides, that gets it
out there where more folks can see it.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey
Webmaster
EV Photo Album
http://evalbum.com
At 07:17 PM 2/20/2007, you wrote:
What about simply adding a link from youtube or google videos? I just tested
and apparently the site does not currently support this. Maybe that is a
simple upgrade, but I doubt it.
Good idea though
On 2/20/07, Dmitri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
How about a video section?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Awesome Mike, thanks for the correction. I havent actually spent that much
time on your site lately, so I apologize for misunderstanding. I see how to
place a link, which I figured would not be that hard to do. I was trying to
actually embed the video in the page itself with the following code, which
of course is not the same thing. The video is not EV related. I was simply
trying to test with it, which is why I changed it back.
By the way, thanks a million for running that site in the first place! I do
use it now and then to provide examples for those that just don't 'get it'.
Dave O.
**************************************
<h3>Hydro Foam</h3>
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"><tr><td><object
type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-9072005015693916165&hl=en";
height="350" width="425" style="width:400px; height:326px;"
id="VideoPlayback">
<param name="movie" value="
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-9072005015693916165&hl=en";
/>
<param name="allownetworking" value="internal" />
<param name="allowScriptAccess" value="never" />
<param name="enableJSURL" value="false" />
<param name="enableHREF" value="false" />
<param name="saveEmbedTags" value="true" />
</object> ..</td></tr><tr><td>
**************************************
On 2/20/07, Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Umm, David, why do you think the EV Album won't support a link to
YouTube? We have several pages linked already. I am not sure what
you did when you tested your link, since you changed it back again
already, but see page:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/840
for an example of working links to YouTube.
Something to keep in mind is all the data on the pages is stored in a
MySQL database by custom scripts, so it has to be formatted just so
to make it work. Links without the http:// beginning don't work. It
has to have that for the script to recognize it as a link. This
isn't plain vanilla html anymore.
I would suggest anyone wanting to post a video, post in on YouTube
then I can fix the link for them if they have a problem. YouTube is
setup to handle that kind of bandwidth, I would hate to overload the
Austin EV server with a lot of video traffic. Besides, that gets it
out there where more folks can see it.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey
Webmaster
EV Photo Album
http://evalbum.com
At 07:17 PM 2/20/2007, you wrote:
>What about simply adding a link from youtube or google videos? I just
tested
>and apparently the site does not currently support this. Maybe that is a
>simple upgrade, but I doubt it.
>
>Good idea though
>
>On 2/20/07, Dmitri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>How about a video section?
>>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> Changing the system voltage has other complications. It requires
>> changing the battery boxes, charger and instrumentation as well.
>> Essentially, starting all over with new wiring.
From: Roger Stockton
>Now, now, it really isn't that bad. Raising the pack voltage might
>require changing the battery boxes, but dropping from 108V to 96V
>doesn't. This change requires merely moving the pack positive lead down
>by two 6V batteries; the two unused batteries don't even have to be
>removed, though removing them and replacing them with a suitable spacer
>would lighten things up.
The EVCorts use 6v Sonnenschein gel cells. These batteries are very good for
long life at low current; but expensive, and they do not hold up well at high
currents. So, I'm concerned that reducing the pack voltage to 96v or 72v and
putting in a higher-current controller would lead to higher battery currents,
which could murder them in short order.
They are also slightly odd size, and a tight fit in the battery boxes; so it
would be hard to substitute flooded or AGMs.
A new pack voltage would require a new charger, as the EVCort charger isn't
documented well enough for easy modification to some other voltage. Finding a
new charger suitable for gel cells might also be a challenge; the usual
"stupid" chargers many people use would overcharge and damage them.
Also, the car's instrumentation is all custom for a 108v system. These aren't
simple analog meters; they are built-from-scratch digital meters.
> No one says he has to discard the Soleq components; he can hang on
> to them in the hope that someone will surface to service them, or can
> try to reverse engineer them at his leisure. If he wants to use the EV,
> however, he needs to either pay the cost to have someone fix the
> present system (if anyone will step up to the task), or to replace it
> with something else.
Yes, that's certainly the case. There is a company that says they have
schematics and will fix Soleq components. The problem is they are expensive,
and there are no guarantees (you pay them for trying, not for succeeding).
> Any sort of series controller/manual field control or contactor setup
> would seem to be an unacceptable hack.
It certainly could be done well... or badly. But the basics of a sepex
controller are pretty simple; simpler than a PWM controller.
> If the series controller option is considered most attractive by virtue
> of allowing the instrumentation and charger and DC/DC to be retained
> (though the Soleq DC/DC is integrated into the defunct controller isn't it?)
> then I would swap the sep-ex motor out for a conventional series motor
But that creates a whole lot of extra expense and machining work. Why replace a
perfectly good motor?
> rather than trying to hack something together to run the separate field
> (and to allow the series controller to work properly without the field
> inductance).
The controller is a huge box (about 30" x 15" x 10"), mounted where the car's
radiator originally was. Inside are dozens of circuit boards, and dozens of
identical modules with ~8 TO-3 power transistors and associated parts. It would
be fairly straightforward to unplug and remove some of these parts to clear out
one small corner, and mount a Curtis or other controller in it.
It already has two big series inductors for the armature; so it will work fine
with a series motor controller.
The modules removed could be traced out, and repaired if necessary.
But any way you look at it; it's a lot of work.
--
Lee Hart
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ask yourself, why are they closing out these batteries?
I have tested the "Tenergy" brand, which sources lowest-bid batteries
from china. They are useless for EVs, you'll be luck to get 1C
discharge rates, and charge rates are .3C. Should be OK for a flashlight.
I'm not sure why what I've posted about NiMH for EVs seems to go
unheard. Just the cells is only half the solution, if you don't have
the other half, there is no point. Rechargeable batteries that can't be
recharged are useless.
Jack
Lee Hart wrote:
Subject: Re: NiMH D size battery closeout
Just a gentle reminder: Don't buy batteries based on price. Buy based on *performance*.
Don't belive any of the published "sales" data until you have tested some
yourself.
For an EV-sized pack you'll need hundreds of cells. Make a test order to see
what they really cost, and test them to see what you'll really get. Then decide
which is a better deal based on your actual performance data (and price).
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Capacity aside, the durability at high discharges has not been
specified. You can test that a cell puts out acceptable voltage at a 2C
discharge rate. However, this does not prove the cell will last
thousands of cycles at this duty.
Actually it's not rocket science to buy a few cells, design a testbench
to cycle them at high currents over and over and see how much capacity
they have at 2C after a few weeks of such abuse. Still, even perfect
testing is suspect since the data is not guaranteed by the mfg. It
would not be unheard of to order 2,000 parts and have some act like the
ones you tested and some not. If the mfg specified only 10AH, as long
as the cell provides 10AH then it's not their fault some don't last at
2C cycling just because the first ones you tried did.
In fact with these discount battery vendors, you could even order 1,000
and get 500 like the ones in the picture which are identical to what you
originally tested along with 500 of a completely different brand and mfg
but still 10AH as advertised.
Realistically, I think chances are good you could get good enough
consistency. There's still an element of chance though, sort of a crap
shoot.
Danny
Lee Hart wrote:
Subject: Re: NiMH D size battery closeout
Just a gentle reminder: Don't buy batteries based on price. Buy based on *performance*.
Don't belive any of the published "sales" data until you have tested some
yourself.
For an EV-sized pack you'll need hundreds of cells. Make a test order to see
what they really cost, and test them to see what you'll really get. Then decide
which is a better deal based on your actual performance data (and price).
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Husted <http://www.HiTorqueElectric.com> did a fantastic job
"souping up" the motors for the KillaCycle. I think it will take a
lot more volts and amps to zortch these, now that Jim has worked his
magic on them.
They are so gorgeous, I had to post some pictures of them on the
KillaCycle web site:
http://www.killacycle.com/photos/motor-details/
If you are thinking of building a high-performance EV, Jim is the man
to go to for the motors.
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Out of interest, Tenergy batteries are usually rebranded Shenzhen
Ryders:
http://ryde.en.alibaba.com/product/50136848/50629542/Ni_MH_Batteries/
Ni_MH_Battery.html
I tested some of their AAs once and could barely pull 2C out of them,
definitely not good enough for EV use! (Even ignoring the apparently
prohibitive issues with paralleling NiMHs..)
On 21/02/2007, at 11:01 AM, Jack Murray wrote:
Ask yourself, why are they closing out these batteries?
I have tested the "Tenergy" brand, which sources lowest-bid
batteries from china. They are useless for EVs, you'll be luck to
get 1C discharge rates, and charge rates are .3C. Should be OK for
a flashlight.
I'm not sure why what I've posted about NiMH for EVs seems to go
unheard. Just the cells is only half the solution, if you don't
have the other half, there is no point. Rechargeable batteries
that can't be recharged are useless.
Jack
Lee Hart wrote:
Subject: Re: NiMH D size battery closeout
Just a gentle reminder: Don't buy batteries based on price. Buy
based on *performance*. Don't belive any of the published "sales"
data until you have tested some yourself.
For an EV-sized pack you'll need hundreds of cells. Make a test
order to see what they really cost, and test them to see what
you'll really get. Then decide which is a better deal based on
your actual performance data (and price).
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor in California,
Thank you for pointing to the proper URL. Guess my scissors cut a little
too close when cutting and pasting.
Russ in Rainy Oregon
> Russ,
>
> You meant to link to this picture:
> http://www.russcoev.com/images/oj_front_batteries.jpg
>
> Because the link in your mail did not work.
> Cor
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 12:53 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Battery charger recommendation
>
>> Most of us on the list seem to be using Manzanita
>> Micro:
>>
>> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD has my '92 sedan,
>> as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
>> Learn more at:
>> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
>
>
> Really? I'm not. I have a Russco Charger.
>
> http://www.russcoev.com/images/oj_front_batt
>
> Mike's "EV Photo Album" shows the Zivan is by far the leader in EV battery
> chargers.
>
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/chrgr
>
> And, according to my production records, the "EV Photo Album" represents
> only a small fraction of actual charger sales. List EV owners are
> probably
> more apt to list their vehicle on the "EV Photo Album" than "regular" EV
> owners, but the proportion for comparisons should be fairly consistent.
>
>
> Russ Kaufmann
> RUSSCO Engineering
>
> The Other PFC Charger With Built In GFCI
>
> http://www.russcoev.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Russco chargers may be ordered directly from the Russco factory. For
assistance ask for Russ. See:
http://www.russcoev.com/contact.html
> Can you buy a Russco From Russco? Looks good to me, want to order one,
> Without the turn off option will it charge forever? Or is this ac off?
> Wonder why no 220v ac option... Thanks Hap
>
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Battery charger recommendation
> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 12:52:53 -0800 (PST)
>
>> Most of us on the list seem to be using Manzanita
>> Micro:
>>
>> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
>> has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
>> Learn more at:
>> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
>
>
> Really? I'm not. I have a Russco Charger.
>
> http://www.russcoev.com/images/oj_front_batt
>
> Mike's "EV Photo Album" shows the Zivan is by far the leader in EV battery
> chargers.
>
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/chrgr
>
> And, according to my production records, the "EV Photo Album" represents
> only a small fraction of actual charger sales. List EV owners are
> probably more apt to list their vehicle on the "EV Photo Album" than
> "regular" EV owners, but the proportion for comparisons should be fairly
> consistent.
>
>
> Russ Kaufmann
> RUSSCO Engineering
>
> The Other PFC Charger With Built In GFCI
>
> http://www.russcoev.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Andy, my conversion is with parts from Victor at Metric Mind. Very high
quality equipment and excellent support. I highly recommend him.
Check out my web site for all the details, including my analysis on what
type of drive system to purchase.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
---------------------------------------------------
See the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Check the EVDL Archives: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
Check out the EV Photo Album: www.evalbum.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andrew Goodman
Sent: February 18, 2007 10:18 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: EV conversion questions
Hello,
I am newbe to your list.
I have been considering doing a EV conversion, using a 1970 BMW 2002, a neat
little car that I own.
I am looking at a direct drive AC conversions, and it seems the only
suppliers of (affordable) motors and controllers out there are MetricMind
http://www.metricmind.com/ and ElectroAutomotive
http://www.electroauto.com/index.html.
Has anyone out there done an AC conversion?
With parts from these places?
Has anyone dealt with these companies?
Are there other suppliers that I should look into?
Thanks in advance for the advice.
Andy
____________________________________________________________________________
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It's here! Your new message!
Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Victor and Don,
I'm hoping to load the profile from a NiMH force that has a functioning
NLG421. The owner of that force wants to add a 15 battery so I assume
some programming will be required for the new nominal voltage.
Is this correct?
Thank you?
Noel L
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 10:31 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
Don,
I wrote "until thermo-compensated 1.509 VPC is reached"; perhaps
I didn't express specifics clearly. I'll try my best again:
Thermo-compensated voltage on 11 cell Ovonic battery is
16.6V - 0.024*Tmax. 1.509V per cell (16.6V per 11 cells battery then)
is the voltage when 0.024*Tmax term is zero, which is at 0'Celsius.
At room temp (25'C) the voltage is 16.60 - 0.024*25 = 16.00V which
is 16V/11 = 1.4545V per cell - about 15mV lower than recommended
by Ovonic maximum of 1.47 VPC.
1.47VPC occurs when the battery should be charged to 16.17V total,
and this can happen at the temp of (16.6-16.17)/-0.024=-17.9'C.
This is why -20'C is declared minimum working temp for the battery;
else you would have to exceed 1.47VPC value which is not allowed.
A battery indeed should never be charged directly to non-compensated
1.509 VPC. I apologize if I implied that.
BTW, Cobasys' 85Ah NiMH battery consists of 12 [identical to Ovonic's]
cells, not 11. So the max voltage this battery should ever be at is
17.64VDC (at -20'C).
HTH,
Victor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Victor
>
> Take a look at page 34 is the Ovonics brochure
>
> _http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/fsev/sce_rpt/s10_nimh_report.pdf_
> (http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/fsev/sce_rpt/s10_nimh_report.pdf)
>
> Says 16.0 volts Max charging 1.509 volts per cell would be 16.599. I
also
> notice for maximum life they recommend temperature 45 C. On page 29
the DSTC
> shows quite a drop when going over temperature 25 C
>
> I have watched the voltage during charging in the factory NiMH truck.
The
> BMS will not let them go over 1.47 Volts per cell. The 26 batteries
420 volts
> right at 1.4685
>
> Don
>
> In a message dated 2/19/2007 3:05:27 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> Noel P. Luneau wrote:
>> Hi Victor,
>>
>> Did you ever figure out a charging profile for the Ovonics?
>
> Noel,
>
> Yes, I know how to do it, but it may be tricky to set up
> with NLG4 unless you can track Ah in and out and can accurately
> measure voltage and temperatures. Basically you
> have to charge at 20A until thermo-compensated 1.509 VPC is reached,
> then drop it to 10A, then to 5A and finally finish off at 5A for
> 1 hour.
> That last top-off step is not necessary to do on every cycle,
> only once in a while depending on how the battery is used.If at any
of
> these steps SOC reach 115% you stop.
>
> If the temp reach 50'C you start cooling, and if reach 60'C stop
> charging and wait until it drops at least to 50'C.
>
> Max voltage on charge has negative temp dependency. You compensate
> by -0.024T (T in deg Celsius) for 11 cell battery, T being hottest
> battery in the string.
>
> Ovonic wants you to measure voltage to +/-0.5V accuracy, but 1% is
> really acceptable. Not sure what NLG4 offers.
>
> I have set up my BRUSA NLG513-WA + BCM200 Ah counter in my Honda ACRX
> to do about this all, (except I don't have active cooling and start
off
> with about 10A) and as time permits will upload correct profile to
the
> NLG5 profiles library page on my web site. I has to deviate from this
> profile though because my batteries aren't new and do not possess
85Ah
> as rated, so tracking Ah is not helping in my case. I just charge
until
> they are full and the criteria is their temp rise, I stop when dT/dt
> exceeds programmed value. I think I set it to 1'C per minute
threshold.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Victor
>
>> I have my Force apart and am looking at reprogramming the BC3300
>> (NLG412) charger and the ACM325 motor controller. I may be able to
>> accomplish this as there is a working Force near me, but was
wondering
>> if you had any suggestions.
>>
>> However, what I don't have is a BTMS for the Ovonics that will drive
the
>> customm air cooled fans that I will have to assemble and manage the
>> charging profile. I was wondering what you use/suggest for these
touchy
>> batteries.
>>
>> Does anyone else have any suggestions as to what to use for a BTMS?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Noel L
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
>> Behalf Of Noel P. Luneau
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 5:53 PM
>> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>> Subject: Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
>>
>> Hi Victor,
>>
>> When I contacted Zivan USA they said they have a charging profile
for
>> Ovonics. I'm hoping to have 15 of my 30 13.2v's in my Force.
>>
>> Solectria must have the charging profile as they used them in the
Force
>> for awhile. There is a document on the Internet when two Forces,
EV15
>> and EVHQ were tested. No charging profiles but interesting reading.
>>
>> I'll let you know if I can get the charger and controller
reprogrammed.
>>
>> Noel
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Victor Tikhonov"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Sent: 10/5/05 5:39:04 PM
>> To: "ev@listproc.sjsu.edu"<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
>>
>> Roger,
>>
>> Better than nothing, but still not a thing about charging profile.
>> I know more details about charging, but would love to see original
>> Ovonic's info.
>>
>> Roger Stockton wrote:
>>
>>
http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/transportation/Series9500/Series_9500_Brochur
>>> e.html
>>>
>>> The 13.2V module consists of 11 of these 9500-series cells strapped
>>> together and connected in series. The Cobasys series 9500 12V
battery
>>> consists of 10 cells strapped together and connected in series.
>>>
>>> They are different, but the individual cells that make them up
appear
>>> identical and should have the same charge requirements. What
little
>>> charge information Cobasys appears to provide can be found in the
>>> brochure for the 9500 series that targets stationary applications:
>>>
>>>
>>
<http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/stationary/Series9500/ST_Series_9500_Brochur
>>> e.html>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Roger.
>
>
>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Just want to confirm I also did testing on D size Nimh from Tenergy and
Powerizer and would not recommend them for EV use. The cell ratings varied
considerably making it manditory to test and match each cell. Two or three
cycles per cells on hundred or thousands of cells is not worth the effort.
The subC cells used by the RC guys are quite decent as far as small Nimh
cells are concerned and you can get matched cells or matched packs. I have a
pack of 168 subC Nimh in a pitbike that are rated at 10C. Four strings of 42
cells. Pack is 52.5V at 14AH. I can draw short bursts of 15C from these cells,
enough to kick my 170 amp breaker.
The A123 cells are a huge step above anything in the Nimh/Nicad category.
From random Dewalt packs, the cells were quite consistent. The cells could put
out 50 amps with ease. Bill (Killacycle) says they are good up to 100 amp with
single tabs and 130 amps with doubled tabs. They run better when they are hot.
The internal resistence decreases with use. I have charged single strings at
10 amps with only nominal heating. They seem to take a 20 amp charge but A123
does not recommend it.
Ezesport
Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ask yourself, why are they closing out these batteries?
I have tested the "Tenergy" brand, which sources lowest-bid batteries
from china. They are useless for EVs, you'll be luck to get 1C
discharge rates, and charge rates are .3C. Should be OK for a flashlight.
I'm not sure why what I've posted about NiMH for EVs seems to go
unheard. Just the cells is only half the solution, if you don't have
the other half, there is no point. Rechargeable batteries that can't be
recharged are useless.
Jack
Lee Hart wrote:
>>Subject: Re: NiMH D size battery closeout
>
>
> Just a gentle reminder: Don't buy batteries based on price. Buy based on
> *performance*. Don't belive any of the published "sales" data until you have
> tested some yourself.
>
> For an EV-sized pack you'll need hundreds of cells. Make a test order to see
> what they really cost, and test them to see what you'll really get. Then
> decide which is a better deal based on your actual performance data (and
> price).
> --
> Lee Hart
>
>
---------------------------------
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Bill Dube wrote:
Jim Husted did a fantastic job "souping up" the motors for the
KillaCycle....If you are thinking of building a high-performance EV,
Jim is the man to go to for the motors.
Well, Duh!!!!! He's pretty damn good at making cattails, too!
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A guy on Craigslists has found a rare electric cycle
either converted or manufactured sometime in the late
60's or early 70's. He wants to find some more info
on it but cant. So is there any older EV members that
might know
something about this
bike?
http://stockholm.craigslist.org/wan/268443545.html
Craigslist Ad reads:
<<Im looking for any information on the electric
motorcycle you see in the picture. Research over the
past 6 years has revealed it was built somewhere in
the late 1960s. It had remained in a garage in
Oakland, Calif., USA., for many years.
When I purchased the bike in the late 90s from the
person who took it out of the Oakland storage in the
late 70s, it had Noack batteries installed. Further
research with the Varta Battery Company (formerly
Noack) in Sweden gave me very little information as to
its origin.
An inquiry was put in the Classic Motorcycle Magazine
(England) in 2002. No substantial feedback was
received.
The bike is partly Yamaha and partly Honda (1969 CB750
four (CB750KO)) according to the man who did
maintenance on the brakes. The rest of the bike is
unique to it.
I do not plan to keep the bike, but would like to have
as much information as I can. Its origin is a mystery
so far. The bike is located in Torrance, California,
USA, but please contact me through Craigs list.
http://c.im.craigslist.org/J3/jd/4cfMzJ41WV22yVjTe20HLM4zebJ5.jpg
http://a.im.craigslist.org/oY/Bo/5OVyMw9Wme7Q69H6JgRXVhpgtcm2.jpg
>>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Concord ZAP dealer: "We cant make much of a profit")
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/2007-02-21/news/puck-nonfiction
Puck Nonfiction
Save Berkeley Iceland? Magic 8 ball say "pipe dream." Revive the
electric car? Magic 8 Ball say: "Reply hazy, try again."
By Kathleen Richards & Eric Simons Published: February 21, 2007
[...]
Reviving the Electric Car: On a rainy Saturday morning, some
forty people mainly couples and families hobnobbed around
three mini plug-in vehicles at the OConnell Electric car
dealership in Alameda. Husbands looked under the hoods, a young
scamp sat in a drivers seat pretending to steer, and some kids
with an electric scooter took turns doing circles in the garage.
This is really exciting! This is the first electric car
dealership in the East Bay! exclaimed Mayor Beverly Johnson,
eliciting cheers from the grand-opening crowd.
Well, its not quite the first. ZAP of Concord has been selling
electric cars at Concords California Auto Plaza since November.
Car, actually. See, the little dealership has not been doing so
hot. The publicly traded, Santa Rosa-based ZAP (Zero Air
Pollution) produces two models the four-seat Xebra sedan (about
$10,000) and the two-seat pickup truck (about $12,000) both of
which ride on three wheels, reach a max of 40 mph, and go about
25 miles per charge.
Given those limitations, the Plazas salesmen have managed to
sell just one vehicle to date, although, to be fair, ZAP of
Concord owner Patrick Fogarty has been operating his business
from out of state. I think its difficult to sell a city-only
vehicle unless its supercheap, he said. Were asking $10,000.
The one I sold, it sold for $9,000. At that price, we cant make
much of a profit.
Steve Lowery, a partner in OConnell Electric and a physician at
Alameda Hospital, is nonetheless confident that Alameda residents
will be receptive. Theres a lot of people that want an
alternative, he said. I know its not a Lexus, but this is
where we see our future.
Its not going to be for everybody, agreed Lowerys partner,
Mike OConnell, who runs OConnell Electric out of his Volvo
service center.
But for those seeking alternatives to gas guzzlers, Alamedas ZAP
dealership is a welcome addition to the limited electric-car
market. Lowery was an early enthusiast who leased an electric
ride from Alamedas CalStart before the program was canceled in
2001. For a time, electric cars were the wave of the future, but,
as documented in last years documentary Who Killed the Electric
Car?, various business and political interests have conspired to
keep the technology from succeeding in the marketplace.
At the time ZAP came along, Bay Area electric vehicle enthusiasts
had to choose between the pricey Tesla Roadster (about $100,000)
and DaimlerChryslers glorified golf carts ($6,795 and up). The
latter recently made news when one caught fire and burned a
building at San Franciscos Crissy Field, the second such
incident in the Golden Gate National Recreation Area.
Lowery said ZAP cars fill a niche for families wanting a second
car to run errands, or for teens whose parents dont want them to
drive too fast or too far. Already, OConnell noted, about twenty
people have signed up to buy a vehicle. Donna Eyestone wasnt
one. She test-drove the Xebra at the grand opening, hoping it
could replace her Prius, but couldnt get past the e-cars
limitations. Still, shes glad its available. I bought my Prius
in 2002 because my CRX died, the stay-at-home mom said. I would
have liked to have more options, but I desperately needed
something. Its 2007 and theres not many more choices.
Kathleen Richards
©2007 Village Voice Media All rights reserved.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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