EV Digest 6452
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) all EV drag race in San Diego
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Anyone have a data sheet for the Ford Lambda DC/DC converter PIC-1375-1
?
by Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Cobasys / Chevron NiMH Patent
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Torqeedo Power lithium-manganese
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Torqeedo Power lithium-manganese
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: all EV drag race in San Diego
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: HD Radio anyone?
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) unsubscribe
by "m a r" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Cheap please (T-105 Sitcker Shock)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Anyone have a data sheet for the Ford Lambda DC/DC converter
PIC-1375-1 ?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Battery load tester
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) A123 to get more expensive? was RE: Torqeedo Power lithium-manganese
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Battery load tester
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Torqeedo Power lithium-manganese
by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: all EV drag race in San Diego
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Cobasys / Chevron NiMH Patent
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Torqeedo Power lithium-manganese
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: "electric" emblem
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) insanity check. lots of gel batteries.
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: insanity check. lots of gel batteries.
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: insanity check. lots of gel batteries.
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark,
I think you have the wrong perspective, but let me make another point first:
Nobody said that an EV is going to be much cheaper in the short run.
I am concerned about the actual cost of pollution (which is not represented
at the pump today, as the price is paid by the people suffering from Asthma
and other problems, so it is a hidden cost which may come back to bite us)
and running my EV keeps the majority of pollution out of my neighborhood, so
I am paying for piece of mind, which I value.
Now about perspective: I don't see batteries as "fuel cost", but more as a
maintenance item.
The reduced maintenance cost on my car, which has been to the dealer since
<NEVER>, at a cost of <zero> is more or less paying for the cost of the
batteries. My pack did cost me about $2200 for my S10
Note that the numbers from the AAA are that average US vehicle operational
cost *without* fuel cost is $0.50 per mile, including everything else
related to the car.
Now part of that we still see - insurance, new tires, parking fee and so on,
but having about $4000 for a car that does 8000 miles per year will easily
pay for its batteries....
The fuel cost is then only the electricity, which can occasionally be beaten
by the best-performing Hybrids when comparing the mileage and price at the
pump ($2.679 is the lowest I see around here) but my electric S10 wins hands
down from any other pickup truck.
Since the price of raw lead has gone up steeply recently, batteries have
seen 2 or 3 price increases in the past year.
Let me know if you have a different perspective ;-)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Brueggemann
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 2:13 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: T-105 Sitcker Shock
I was just quoted $85ea plus tax for a set of T-105's.
This is quite a jump from the last time I bought them.
At these prices, freight shipping from higher volume distribution points
starts to look attractive.
Is this about the going rate for T-105's now or am I getting hosed? This
may be the end of my EV career, this works out to the equivalent of $3.50
gal gas before the cost of electricity. I like my EV but I can run a luxury
car cheaper than this.
Mark Brueggemann
Albuquerque, NM
S-10 EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi all,
I have been going to various drag strips to watch EVs
race for the last few years. I am always dissapionted
at the number of runs and vehicles. Woodburn is
pretty good but there is still the competition of the
jr fuel dragsters. There is a small strip that is
seldom used not far from where I live and I think we
could rent it for an EV only event if there was enough
interest. I was thinking around earth day, April 22,
as we have the biggest E-Day celebration in the world
in San Diego. We always have many EVs and other
alternative vehicles at the E-day celebration. If
there is interest I could check to see how much it
would cost to rent the strip and timing equipment.
Right now various organizations rent it for stakes
raceing. There is camping and hotel facilities close
by and we might be able to get a deal if we had enough
turn out.
If this is too far off topic e-mail me off list
keith
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice looking converter. Used in the EV Ranger. Must have a fairly high
input voltage range, but just exactly what is the range? What is the
pinout and functions for the little connector? How much power can it
produce (amps at volts?) ?
thanks,
Paul Wallace
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can't they renew the patent though? You think they would if it keeps people
away from EVs...
I still think someone should make a succesful aluminum battery
though...Cheap, abundant, high energy density.
From: "D3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Cobasys / Chevron NiMH Patent
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:58:42 -0500
Great find! I'm saving this one.
Here's an abstract thought.....Chevron doesn't want anyone to "sell" these
batteries (i.e. make a profit) What if someone were to manufacture and
distribute these batteries "at cost"? Oh, well....2013 is not that far
away-or maybe someone in China will make them available or by 2013 a better
technology will be developed and kept out of the hands of someone wanting
to
shelve that technology!
Don Davidson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 1:31 PM
Subject: Cobasys / Chevron NiMH Patent
> I did a little searching to find the patent owned by Cobasys / Chevron
which
> covers NiMH batteries for electric vehicles.
>
> Is this the one?
>
>
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=5558950.PN.&OS=PN/5558950&RS=PN/5558950
>
> or
>
> http://snipurl.com/1am15
>
> United States Patent 5,558,950
> Ovshinsky, et al. September 24, 1996
> Optimized cell pack for large sealed nickel-metal hydride batteries
> A sealed prismatic metal hydride battery greater than 10 Ah in size
> comprising a battery case of high thermal conductivity; and at least
> one bundle of metal hydride electrodes of high thermal conductivity
> in thermal contact with said battery case.
>
> If this is it, and patents expire in 17 years, it will expire on Sept
24,
> 2013 which is less than 7 years from now.
>
> Bruce
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Free Alerts : Be smart - let your information find you !
http://alerts.live.com/Alerts/Default.aspx
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--- Begin Message ---
sounds like a good kind of battery for a motorcycle except that i couldn't
see anywhere where it showed there max current draw. I saw an example of
6000 watts but is that for bolth batteries or just the 37 volt one?
From: Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Torqeedo Power lithium-manganese Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 11:53:08
-0500 (EST)
Just some batts I haven't seen mentioned on the EVDL. Being marketed
for marine propulsion, but may be of interest to lubbers also...
Seen here:
http://www.torqeedo.com/en/hn/products/power/product-description.html
or tinyURL here:
http://tinyurl.com/324my8
Torqeedo Power 37-58
37.0 V
58 Ah
2,137 Wh
19 (41.9) Kg (lbs)
3 Hr mi. charge time
After 500 cycles of discharging the batteries down to 20% of their
charge and recharging them to full capacity, Torqeedo Power batteries
still carry 90% of their original capacity.
tks
Lock
Toronto
human-electric hybrid pedestrian
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--- Begin Message ---
Ya, 6Kw for their smaller 26-77 version. Ask `em about the bigger one,
and get prices too - I was too afraid to ask :)
Looking for smaller packs right now for PEV, but will revisit these
manganese babes when I can spend on the 32-footer...
tks
Lock
Toronto
human-electric hybrid pedestrian
--- Tim Gamber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> sounds like a good kind of battery for a motorcycle except that i
> couldn't
> see anywhere where it showed there max current draw. I saw an example
> of
> 6000 watts but is that for bolth batteries or just the 37 volt one?
>
>
> >From: Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >Subject: Torqeedo Power lithium-manganese Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007
> 11:53:08
> >-0500 (EST)
> >
> >Just some batts I haven't seen mentioned on the EVDL. Being marketed
> >for marine propulsion, but may be of interest to lubbers also...
> >
> >Seen here:
>
>http://www.torqeedo.com/en/hn/products/power/product-description.html
> >or tinyURL here:
> >http://tinyurl.com/324my8
> >Torqeedo Power 37-58
> >37.0 V
> >58 Ah
> >2,137 Wh
> >19 (41.9) Kg (lbs)
> >3 Hr mi. charge time
> >After 500 cycles of discharging the batteries down to 20% of their
> >charge and recharging them to full capacity, Torqeedo Power
> batteries
> >still carry 90% of their original capacity.
> >
> >tks
> >Lock
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum as you. I get a lot of my enjoyment
at the drag races seeing the non EV racers or better yet watching the EV's
go head to head with the gassers. These are the problems I have with an EV
only drag racing event.
1. Limited amount of EV's (I don't think I have ever seen even 10 EVs go
down the track on the same day.)
2. Long charge times between runs.
3. No noise. Although, I think this is a huge plus while driving an EV
every day, I really don't like it at the drag strip especially since it
seems to limit my ability to tell how fast the car is going.
Of course thats just me, if you can muster up enough interest then go for
it. I'm sure that you and the other EVers there will have a great time.
damon
From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: all EV drag race in San Diego
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:55:33 -0800 (PST)
hi all,
I have been going to various drag strips to watch EVs
race for the last few years. I am always dissapionted
at the number of runs and vehicles. Woodburn is
pretty good but there is still the competition of the
jr fuel dragsters. There is a small strip that is
seldom used not far from where I live and I think we
could rent it for an EV only event if there was enough
interest. I was thinking around earth day, April 22,
as we have the biggest E-Day celebration in the world
in San Diego. We always have many EVs and other
alternative vehicles at the E-day celebration. If
there is interest I could check to see how much it
would cost to rent the strip and timing equipment.
Right now various organizations rent it for stakes
raceing. There is camping and hotel facilities close
by and we might be able to get a deal if we had enough
turn out.
If this is too far off topic e-mail me off list
keith
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
_________________________________________________________________
The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian.
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--- Begin Message ---
I have Sirius in my Saturn conversion. It's got a zilla controller so the noise
is generally higher than most would hear anyways. I can't hear the controller
in the car, but the other day for the first time I was messing around under the
hood with the car on and in neutral and I found out I could definitely hear
when there wasn't a bunch of stuff between me and it.
I don't have any problems with FM reception, but I don't use it much if at all.
The Sirius comes in clear as day.The trick with satellite radio is you need a
decent line of sight with the northern sky. Most big cities have terrestrial
repeaters too so if your in umong a lot of big buildings you keep the signal.
On my Civic I also have Sirius and I put the antenna right by the existing roof
antenna and I think it's partially blocking the signal at certain angles.
I should also mention I put a small stereo setup in my GEM and wow talk about
interference! I think that controller runs at ~12khz and FM stands no chance of
coming in clearly when your driving. CD's play fine. I initially had a hide
away under dash antenna and I put it under the dash near the controller, big
mistake. I ended up moving it to the top of the windshield which helped, but it
still picks up the interference. I don't drive it enough to worry about it so I
never delt with it any further and just listen to CD's.... mp3 CD's are
wounderful. One of these days I was going to try and shield things a bit more.
I have the radio installed in the dash and now I know why their OEM radio
solution consists of a radio mounted to the roof on a separate optional
console, the antenna also goes on the roof, a good 3 feet away from the
controller. I think if I shield the antenna cable and put some shielding around
the radio itself and the speaker cables it will be ok.
One other thing to mention. On the Honda hybrids (I think it's the same with
the Toyotas too.... or at least similar) the radio antenna on the regular
Civics is integrated in to the rear glass, on the hybrids you get a roof
mounted antenna. I was told this was to prevent any interference from the
electronics which are behind the rear seat.
Later,
Ricky
92 Saturn SC conversion
Glendale, AZ
-----------------------------------------------------
I've been living with extra static compared to an ICE car while
listening to the radio in my EV. Anyone have any experience with HD radio or
Sirius / XM radio on their EV?
If so, I'm curious as to the quality of the reception, dropouts, and
such. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Todd Martin
1997 Solectria Force.
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
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--- Begin Message ---
unsubscribe
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--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
When I talk to inquiring people at EV shows (or EVents), I have
learned to determine what their priorities are to help them
get the EV fact they are after.
Some have incorrect opinions/facts about EVs. They think
since it is not a 'real car' it must be cheap (golf carts are
cheap right?!?). If it is a vehicle, it going to cost (no free
lunch).
For some, they view life while standing in their wallet: short
term expenditures are very much on their minds. "How much
does this cost?", "How much is that costing me?" is what they say
to me. But they do not take the time to 'do the math' (total
calculations) to account for 'all the costs' before deciding,
"Electrics are too expensive!"
Those types are familiar-with and quite comfortable purchasing
and maintaining a self-destructive ICE vehicle, and to hell
with the other guy (and their children's lungs).
In my case, I am not in a position of high income as I was in the
past. The increase in SOPb4 wet cell battery costs will hit me
too. But I know by driving an EV I save money in the form of:
-time (no waiting to get gas or waiting for ICE repairs, etc.)
-fees (smogging, etc.)
-maintenance (no tune ups, repairs, etc.)
-fuel (Electricity is cheap, free public EV charging, etc.)
-and more (HOV lane access, no ICE fires, etc.)
The EV community has had an exclusive-club going for some time
now. As 'EVangel' efforts continue to put more EVs on the road,
and EV interest grows, some costs are going to increase to
match the costs of everything else that is in a constant state
of going up.
The cost of replacing the pack is my largest expenditure. I
mentally equate the cost of two SOPb4 pack swap outs vs the cost
of an ICE overhaul (and what every else the shop finds that
needs fixing).
I can change out my pack easily:
-the new pack is dropped off at my home
-and the old pack is picked up afterward.
I can not do the same with an ICE overhaul:
-I do not have the space, tools, experience, and it is not
allowed where I live.
I have long given up trying to get Trojan Battery to give a
better deal on my pack cost. I have found my local US Battery
dealer gives the best-bang-for-the-buck.
Perhaps you should look at your 'T-105 equivalent' battery
options and include the cost of battery delivery & dead-core
pickup.
US Battery dealers can be found at
http://www.usbattery.com/pages/usbdealers.htm
Exide dealers can be found at
http://www.exide.com/wheretobuy/wheretobuy.asp
If cost of pack replacement does become more than you can
afford, please consider selling your EV when it has at least
a year's life left in the pack. It will sell better, and
you will get a better price for it. There are plenty of EV
interested buyers out there now that fuel is closer to its
true cost (see Cor's POST on Eco costs, etc.).
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
I recently bought one and should have the (paper) specs somewhere.
My guess is that it should be on the web, try a Ford Ranger group.
This is a 100A output DC/DC converter at battery voltage.
Voltage can be trimmed with (resistor) feedback to the multi-pin connector.
I am still looking for decent plugs to mate these...
(I opened it, but cannot easily separate the inside from its cooling plate,
otherwise I would mount it on the water-cooled plate where my previous
DC/DC lived).
Nominal input voltage on the Ranger was a 312V pack, IIRC.
So it should be good with input somewhere between 275 and 400V is my guess.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
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-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul Wallace
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 4:03 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Anyone have a data sheet for the Ford Lambda DC/DC converter
PIC-1375-1 ?
Nice looking converter. Used in the EV Ranger. Must have a fairly high
input voltage range, but just exactly what is the range? What is the pinout
and functions for the little connector? How much power can it produce (amps
at volts?) ?
thanks,
Paul Wallace
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've seen people post numerous times about the coat hanger in water
as a load and I have to ask; Is there anything else involved with
this method other than
1 bucket of water and
1 coat hanger with wires connecting it to battery + and - ?
Haw do you make the final connection without excessive sparking?
What is the max voltage you can do this with in relative safety?
On Feb 21, 2007, at 9:28 AM, Don Cameron wrote:
I have two load testers. The typical 12V battery tester that has
heating
elements in a metal case combined with a voltmeter - its for 12V
but I am
sure will work for 8V. Purchase it at your local auto store.
The other one I have is a couple of coils of coat hanger I immerse
into a
bucket of water. Gives me a nice 100A draw, but a little difficult
to lug
around.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Turns out A123 (also manganese?) et al might have been in on a theft
from the University of Texas...
A couple of news reports from 2006:
http://www.topix.net/content/trb/3119402705172064777241435958951067175151
or tinyURL here:
http://tinyurl.com/33sf2l
and
http://271patent.blogspot.com/2006/09/patent-battle-heats-up-for-lithium.html
tinyURL here:
http://tinyurl.com/3aqamy
and now a news report from February 6th:
"UT wins ruling in battery technology suit"
here:
http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stories/other/02/06/6utpatent.html
tiny:
http://tinyurl.com/34z8at
Sorry to hear Hydro Quebec in on this, `cause they're really EV
Positive... At least, unlike Chevron, these folks are fighting over who
gets to market first, and not just trying to hold things up.
tks
Lock
Toronto
human-electric hybrid ped
--- Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ya, 6Kw for their smaller 26-77 version. Ask `em about the bigger
> one, and get prices too - I was too afraid to ask :)
>
> Looking for smaller packs right now for PEV, but will revisit these
> manganese babes when I can spend on the 32-footer...
>
> tks
> Lock
> Toronto
> human-electric hybrid pedestrian
>
>
> --- Tim Gamber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > sounds like a good kind of battery for a motorcycle except that i
> > couldn't
> > see anywhere where it showed there max current draw. I saw an
> example
> > of
> > 6000 watts but is that for bolth batteries or just the 37 volt one?
> >
> >
> > >From: Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > >Subject: Torqeedo Power lithium-manganese Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007
> > 11:53:08
> > >-0500 (EST)
> > >
> > >Just some batts I haven't seen mentioned on the EVDL. Being
> marketed
> > >for marine propulsion, but may be of interest to lubbers also...
> > >
> > >Seen here:
> >
>
>http://www.torqeedo.com/en/hn/products/power/product-description.html
> > >or tinyURL here:
> > >http://tinyurl.com/324my8
> > >Torqeedo Power 37-58
> > >37.0 V
> > >58 Ah
> > >2,137 Wh
> > >19 (41.9) Kg (lbs)
> > >3 Hr mi. charge time
> > >After 500 cycles of discharging the batteries down to 20% of their
> > >charge and recharging them to full capacity, Torqeedo Power
> > batteries
> > >still carry 90% of their original capacity.
> > >
> > >tks
> > >Lock
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can add a contactor in the list if you have one laying around, but
generally people are using this method on individual batteries or in my case
individual NiCad cells, so arcing is not a big issue. Of course a contactor
or big switch makes the whole thing more convenient. The whole experience
is a bit nerve racking the first time you try it because you are so used to
doing everything you can to avoid short circuits, but once you have tried it
you will see just how easy it is and how well it works.
damon
From: "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Battery load tester
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:41:23 -0500
I've seen people post numerous times about the coat hanger in water as a
load and I have to ask; Is there anything else involved with this method
other than
1 bucket of water and
1 coat hanger with wires connecting it to battery + and - ?
Haw do you make the final connection without excessive sparking?
What is the max voltage you can do this with in relative safety?
On Feb 21, 2007, at 9:28 AM, Don Cameron wrote:
I have two load testers. The typical 12V battery tester that has heating
elements in a metal case combined with a voltmeter - its for 12V but I am
sure will work for 8V. Purchase it at your local auto store.
The other one I have is a couple of coils of coat hanger I immerse into a
bucket of water. Gives me a nice 100A draw, but a little difficult to
lug
around.
_________________________________________________________________
Find what you need at prices youll love. Compare products and save at MSN®
Shopping.
http://shopping.msn.com/default/shp/?ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24102&tcode=T001MSN20A0701
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--- Begin Message ---
Lock,
Their web site, under press clippings, the January / Feb. 2007
Watercraft article states that the Torquedo 24v Lithium Manganese
battery costs Euro 1999. Please verify this as I was in a bit of a
rush, and not familiar with the symbol for Euro.
Alan Brinkman
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lock Hughes
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 4:35 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Torqeedo Power lithium-manganese
Ya, 6Kw for their smaller 26-77 version. Ask `em about the bigger one,
and get prices too - I was too afraid to ask :)
Looking for smaller packs right now for PEV, but will revisit these
manganese babes when I can spend on the 32-footer...
tks
Lock
Toronto
human-electric hybrid pedestrian
--- Tim Gamber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> sounds like a good kind of battery for a motorcycle except that i
> couldn't
> see anywhere where it showed there max current draw. I saw an example
> of
> 6000 watts but is that for bolth batteries or just the 37 volt one?
>
>
> >From: Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >Subject: Torqeedo Power lithium-manganese Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007
> 11:53:08
> >-0500 (EST)
> >
> >Just some batts I haven't seen mentioned on the EVDL. Being marketed
> >for marine propulsion, but may be of interest to lubbers also...
> >
> >Seen here:
>
>http://www.torqeedo.com/en/hn/products/power/product-description.html
> >or tinyURL here:
> >http://tinyurl.com/324my8
> >Torqeedo Power 37-58
> >37.0 V
> >58 Ah
> >2,137 Wh
> >19 (41.9) Kg (lbs)
> >3 Hr mi. charge time
> >After 500 cycles of discharging the batteries down to 20% of their
> >charge and recharging them to full capacity, Torqeedo Power
> batteries
> >still carry 90% of their original capacity.
> >
> >tks
> >Lock
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--- Begin Message ---
Having hosted more than one EV drag racing event, the smartest way to
do it is to tag on to an existing ICE event. Talk with the track
officials and figure out dates and events that would work. Jr
Dragster events are usually not that crowded. There are other events
like test-and tunes, High school drags, and sometimes car shows that
you can team up with. When you do this, you do not have to provide
any money or "rent" the track. All you have to do is announce the
event and promote it. You want to make sure that the track will not
be too crowded so that the EVs will get to run at least 4 times each.
I would strongly suggest that you get in contact with the
NEDRA board to help pick a good date. They know about the proposed
race schedule so that you won't hold your race on the same day that
another West coast race is being held.
Bill Dube'
At 04:55 PM 2/21/2007, you wrote:
hi all,
I have been going to various drag strips to watch EVs
race for the last few years. I am always dissapionted
at the number of runs and vehicles. Woodburn is
pretty good but there is still the competition of the
jr fuel dragsters. There is a small strip that is
seldom used not far from where I live and I think we
could rent it for an EV only event if there was enough
interest. I was thinking around earth day, April 22,
as we have the biggest E-Day celebration in the world
in San Diego. We always have many EVs and other
alternative vehicles at the E-day celebration. If
there is interest I could check to see how much it
would cost to rent the strip and timing equipment.
Right now various organizations rent it for stakes
raceing. There is camping and hotel facilities close
by and we might be able to get a deal if we had enough
turn out.
If this is too far off topic e-mail me off list
keith
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
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--- Begin Message ---
When was that patent first FILED (should be on the front of it) You
cannot renew a patent beyond the standard term of 17 or 20 yrs.
For patents filed (not issued) on or after june 8 1995 the patent term
is 20 yrs from the earliest claimed FILING date (not issue date).
For earlier patent applications that were pending on or patents still in
force on june 8 1995 its either 17 yrs from issue date or 20 years from
earliest claimed filing date.
The change was made to bring us patents in line with world patents so
these 20 yr date is now pretty universal.
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 4:51 pm, Tim Gamber wrote:
Can't they renew the patent though? You think they would if it keeps
people away from EVs...
I still think someone should make a succesful aluminum battery
though...Cheap, abundant, high energy density.
From: "D3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Cobasys / Chevron NiMH Patent
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:58:42 -0500
Great find! I'm saving this one.
Here's an abstract thought.....Chevron doesn't want anyone to "sell"
these
batteries (i.e. make a profit) What if someone were to manufacture and
distribute these batteries "at cost"? Oh, well....2013 is not that far
away-or maybe someone in China will make them available or by 2013 a
better
technology will be developed and kept out of the hands of someone
wanting to
shelve that technology!
Don Davidson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 1:31 PM
Subject: Cobasys / Chevron NiMH Patent
I did a little searching to find the patent owned by Cobasys / Chevron
which
covers NiMH batteries for electric vehicles.
Is this the one?
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=5558950.PN.&OS=PN/5558950&RS=PN/5558950
or
http://snipurl.com/1am15
United States Patent 5,558,950
Ovshinsky, et al. September 24, 1996
Optimized cell pack for large sealed nickel-metal hydride batteries
A sealed prismatic metal hydride battery greater than 10 Ah in size
comprising a battery case of high thermal conductivity; and at least
one bundle of metal hydride electrodes of high thermal conductivity
in thermal contact with said battery case.
If this is it, and patents expire in 17 years, it will expire on
Sept 24,
2013 which is less than 7 years from now.
Bruce
_________________________________________________________________
Free Alerts : Be smart - let your information find you !
http://alerts.live.com/Alerts/Default.aspx
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
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--- Begin Message ---
good spotting.
Those are Brit pounds sterling, so about $3,900US.
About $2,000US per KWh? Not affected by the cold so much? many more
recycles (than Pba) so fewer pack swaps... I wonder if manganese has
that lithium shelf-life? And the volts don't sag (Peukert) but fall
off fast at the end?
A lot fewer interconnects than the A123's, at least :)
Just curious to know where Torqeedo got their lithium tech from!
tks
Lock
Toronto
--- Alan Brinkman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lock,
>
> Their web site, under press clippings, the January / Feb. 2007
> Watercraft article states that the Torquedo 24v Lithium Manganese
> battery costs Euro 1999. Please verify this as I was in a bit of a
> rush, and not familiar with the symbol for Euro.
>
> Alan Brinkman
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> Behalf Of Lock Hughes
> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 4:35 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: Torqeedo Power lithium-manganese
>
> Ya, 6Kw for their smaller 26-77 version. Ask `em about the bigger
> one,
> and get prices too - I was too afraid to ask :)
>
> Looking for smaller packs right now for PEV, but will revisit these
> manganese babes when I can spend on the 32-footer...
>
> tks
> Lock
> Toronto
> human-electric hybrid pedestrian
>
>
> --- Tim Gamber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > sounds like a good kind of battery for a motorcycle except that i
> > couldn't
> > see anywhere where it showed there max current draw. I saw an
> example
> > of
> > 6000 watts but is that for bolth batteries or just the 37 volt one?
> >
> >
> > >From: Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > >Subject: Torqeedo Power lithium-manganese Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007
> > 11:53:08
> > >-0500 (EST)
> > >
> > >Just some batts I haven't seen mentioned on the EVDL. Being
> marketed
> > >for marine propulsion, but may be of interest to lubbers also...
> > >
> > >Seen here:
> >
>
>http://www.torqeedo.com/en/hn/products/power/product-description.html
> > >or tinyURL here:
> > >http://tinyurl.com/324my8
> > >Torqeedo Power 37-58
> > >37.0 V
> > >58 Ah
> > >2,137 Wh
> > >19 (41.9) Kg (lbs)
> > >3 Hr mi. charge time
> > >After 500 cycles of discharging the batteries down to 20% of their
> > >charge and recharging them to full capacity, Torqeedo Power
> > batteries
> > >still carry 90% of their original capacity.
> > >
> > >tks
> > >Lock
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
George nailed it. I was one the EV list when this was announced so I
remember it. Mike Chancey, the same man who runs the EValbum, is the
creator of the "electric" emblem. As I recall, he paid for the original
injection molding tool. I have no idea what injection molding shop runs
runs the tool, how many be buys at a time, or where the finishing is
done. Perhaps he will chime in. There is a pair of them on the electric
VW Rabbit pickup I built (since sold.) <http://www.evalbum.com/296>
That is yet another great service from Mike. Thank you!
Paul "neon" G.
On Feb 21, 2007, at 9:39 AM, George J. Jones, Jr. wrote:
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/signs.html
----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Cameron"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 10:40 AM
Subject: "electric" emblem
Hi all,
I am looking for whoever got the "electric" car emblem manufactured.
I want
to make some of my own (for a completely different product), and want
to
find a manufacturer.
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I just inherited 20 12 volt 10ah lead acid gel batteries from a dead
UPS. The batteries are old, but they are supposed to be usable if
charged individually, the UPS tech said.
They were free, so I want to play with them. How should I test them?
Can they be safely paralleled?
Thanks.
--
Eduardo K. | Some say it's forgive and forget.
http://www.carfun.cl | I say forget about forgiving just accept.
http://e.nn.cl | And get the hell out of town.
http://ev.nn.cl | Minnie Driver, Grosse Point Blank
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can play with them on anything small such as a power wheels toy, an
electric scooter or ebike. They are also handy to have around as a simple
power supply for testing things at higher voltages. You can put several in
series to test EV components before installing them. For instance if you
had a DC/DC converter and wanted to see what the performance is like at
different voltages.
I got over 60 of the 7 ahr ones last year out of a UPS. I gave some away to
local EVers and have the rest in my garage still. I found a non working
chopper style scooter for free on Craigslist and use the batteries on that.
I just run 24 volts straight to the motor through a contactor and have
several 24V battery packs ready to go. My kids come in and swap out an
empty pack when it starts slowing down. With one pack on the scooter and 3
hooked up to my 72 volt charger, they have unlimited range :-)
damon
From: Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: insanity check. lots of gel batteries.
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 23:11:33 -0300
I just inherited 20 12 volt 10ah lead acid gel batteries from a dead
UPS. The batteries are old, but they are supposed to be usable if
charged individually, the UPS tech said.
They were free, so I want to play with them. How should I test them?
Can they be safely paralleled?
Thanks.
--
Eduardo K. | Some say it's forgive and forget.
http://www.carfun.cl | I say forget about forgiving just accept.
http://e.nn.cl | And get the hell out of town.
http://ev.nn.cl | Minnie Driver, Grosse Point
Blank
_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a month.
Intro*Terms http://www.NexTag.com
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At my last job, 10ah gel cells were replaced twice a year in all
the computer room alarms. I was allowed to take them. I gave
them to a local EAA member who likes to charge, discharge and
look at their data (he does it for fun - he's retired).
I suggest that you:
-put a proper charge on each battery
-then discharge them while measuring the surface voltage. This
will show the health of the battery
-only use (or play with) the healthy gel batteries, and recycle
the rest.
I have found UPS batteries are usually kept on a float charge and
only used during emergency utility power failures for the time it
takes the site generator to kick-in. These UPS batteries are not
designed for repeated cycling like what we do to our EV traction
packs. Also, UPS battereies are not designed for the vibration of
on the road use.
UPS batteries were designed for a different purpose, discharge
rate, and battery life than a EV traction battery. But if all you
want to do is turn the wheels a few feet before you buy a proper
pack, the gels may work for you for minor test purposes.
A web search
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geuoY1BN1FKZUA4WxXNyoA?p=charging+gel+batteries
gives
http://www.allkayakfishing.com/articles/gelcell.html
Fast charging them on a conventional automotive charger may
permanently damage a Gel Battery
http://www.qsl.net/wb3gck/gel-cell.htm
the battery is connected to a constant voltage source of 2.25 to
2.30 volts per cell (13.5 to 13.8 volts for a 12-volt battery)
at 20° C. Provided that the charging source is regulated at the
proper float voltage, the battery will establish its own current
level and will be maintained in a fully charged condition. Gel
cell batteries can be left in the float charge mode for extended
periods of time without damage. This mode is often used to
maintain gel cell batteries used in backup power applications.
http://www.sonnenschein.org/Charging.htm
[Some Series-parellel configurations]
http://www.gardenstatebattery.com/en-us/battery_types_and_tips.htm#320
Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) or "Gel Cell"
Gel Cell batteries do not like to be fast charged. Fast charging
causes them to heat up excessively, which causes the release of
hydrogen and oxygen (also know as " venting" or "gassing").
This release causes the electrolyte gel to dry up. Gel cells
generally like a steady charge rate of about one tenth of their
rated capacity or C/10. As a general rule of thumb, you should
not charge a gel cell at more than 25% of its rated capacity.
The optimum charging for a gel cell would be to charge at 25% or
C/4 for about 80% of its capacity, then switch to a slower rate,
or "float" for the final 20% of capacity, preferably C/10. Gel
Cells do not develop memory like their nickel cadmium cousins,
so conditioning, analyzing or deep discharging is not necessary
and will actually diminish the useful life of the battery.
Keeping a gel cell in a discharged state for extended periods
will also diminish its life. Storing in a cool, dry place will
maximize shelf life.
Be careful and good luck.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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