EV Digest 6456
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: HD Radio anyone?
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(GM hybrid hype w/o serious intent)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVLN(Prii hybrid safety)-long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EVLN(Li-Ion to Have 5% Hybrid Market)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Arrogant Ignorance
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EVLN(12mo Reva AU testing before exported or destroyed)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) EVLN(Venture three-wheel plug-in hybrid)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: T-105 Sitcker Shock
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) how much solar do you need?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) A discussion topic suggestion for the EAA meeting this Saturday
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Stop dissing Zivans, was RE: Battery charger recommendation
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) EVLN(Future EV engineers in Fishersville)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) EVLN(Hybrids in DARPA's 11/3/07 autonomous Grand Challenge)-long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) EVLN(EVs creating buzz on NC Methodist University's campus)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
I suggest you read the advice given for the parts that do apply in your
case, not the ones that you can dismiss. That will help you get to a
solution.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Brueggemann
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 7:35 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: T-105 Sitcker Shock
--- Richard Acuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I realize that Trojan's are the deep discharge battery of choice but
> US Battery is just as good and a lot cheaper.
No, not a lot cheaper. When I bought a USB pack (2200's) the
price difference was about $200. It turns out my charger won't
charge them to the algorithm Nawaz later described to me that they require,
and the pack was toast in 6000 miles. I'd have to buy a new charger and 8
or 10 sets of USB's to just break even. Nothing against USB's, but I can't
use them for economic reasons.
Mark Brueggemann
Albuquerque, NM
S-10 EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Todd,
I have a 1997 Solectria Force as well and while I don't have static, the
reception is not very good.
Noel Luneau
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Todd Martin
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 11:53 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: HD Radio anyone?
I've been living with extra static compared to an ICE car while
listening to the radio in my EV. Anyone have any experience with HD
radio or Sirius / XM radio on their EV?
If so, I'm curious as to the quality of the reception, dropouts, and
such. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Todd Martin
1997 Solectria Force.
---------------------------------
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(GM hybrid hype w/o serious intent)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.680news.com/news/local/article.jsp?content=20070213_144641_4860
GM launching hybrid vehicles in 2008
Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 02:46 PM By: James Munroe
Toronto - It's a day to celebrate in Oshawa.
GM has confirmed it will be the first company in Canada to
produce hybrid vehicle.
Starting in 2008, GM will target pickups and will begin building
hybrid versions of the Chevrolet Silverado and the GMC Sierra.
According to GM, the new two-mode hybrid system will boost fuel
efficiency in both highway and city driving.
Jeff Shuster, the Executive Director of Forcasting at JD Power
and Association said diesel will have about ten per cent of the
marketplace by the end of the decade while hybrids in Canada will
have only two per cent.
"It's not quite growing at the same level as the U.S., he said.
The consumers overall don't think the premium you have to pay for
a hybrid vehicle makes financial sense, Shuster said.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Prii hybrid safety)-long
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informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2007/2/13/queenOfGreenAPushForTush
Queen of Green: A push for tush
February 13, 2007 By Ruth McCann
On my daily bicycular jaunt down Santa Teresa Street, Im
constantly distracted by the cute little Toyota Prii (my
roommates plural for Prius) that line the road. Snugged into
their white-lined spaces, they look like the lovely,
non-threatening low-emissions vehicles they are. And whats more,
they have cute butts. Some people call them ugly, but thats to
be expected, I think, in a world that so recently embraced the
tiny posteriors of Kate Moss and her heroin-chic comrades. But I
suppose my taste in buttocks is simply old-fashioned. While I
fail to be charmed by the waspish figure of a Jaguar or the
finely-tapered ass of a Mercedes, Im a pushover for the more
capacious rear end of a Prius. I suppose you could say that I
like my Prii like Rubens liked his women amply buttocked.
But the Priuss value cannot derive solely from its charming
derriere. As one must ask of a significant other, one must ask of
the Prius, Am I interested in you as a functional whole, or do I
simply admire your cute little tush? While there are clear
benefits of hybrid ownership (lower emissions, reduced gas
consumption, use of the carpool lane, free parking in Santa
Monica for 2 hours, clear moral conscience, etc.), there are also
tough questions that must be asked, the most pressing being,
Will I be crushed to death in this tiny tin can of a
contraption? And if so, do the advantages of my moral
righteousness as a low-carbon-emitter outweigh the disadvantages
of being dead?
A worthy question. And one that was brought up by my parents when
they first considered purchasing a hybrid vehicle. Initially, my
mother and father spurned the hybrid on the grounds that it might
be, as they said, dangerous. Of course, this is the same mother
who claimed that nail polish is perilous because it stops your
nails from breathing, and this is the same father who cajoled me
into wearing a cowbell around my neck while I skied, so as to
warn others of my approach. But did my parents, paranoid as they
were, have a point?
In search of information about hybrid safety, I plunged into the
messy frontier of the Internet. The ever-optimistic
hybridcars.com claimed that hybrids do well in crash situations
because they are small, quick and nimble (good at avoiding
accidents). I appreciate the optimism, but I doubt that many
accidents are the result of our not driving fast enough. So I
looked for harder evidence and found this: hybrids generally do
well in crash tests; cars such as the Honda Accord Hybrid and the
Toyota Prius have rated five stars for frontal and rear collision
safety, and five stars for rollover safety. However, the weak
point of the hybrids is their side-impact crash ratings, which
fall to four stars (not the absolute best, but not shabby) for
the aforementioned cars. In the grand scope of midsize and
compact cars, it seems that the hybrids lie somewhere in the
middle. While a hybrid cant beat the three-ton hunk of metal
that is a midsize Mercedes, hybrids test much better than, say,
the Nissan Sentra, whose front-impact crash ratings are only
slightly better than those of an
Okay, so hybrids are decently safe with respect to other compact
and midsize cars. But you could still pick something safer. You
could, if you have the means, pick the Mercedes. And that extra
ton of steel would give you better protection against the dangers
of the modern road: the pickup trucks, the SUVs, the moving vans,
and the unspeakably immoral Hummers. But is it worth it to be a
bigger polluter, if it means youll be a little bit safer?
My answer is no. It sounds heartless and even irresponsible,
especially when you consider that moms are putting their kids and
dogs and mothers-in-law into their Prii, when theyd be safer in
a Benz. Heres my rebuttal: with car choice, as with all things,
there is a level of acceptable risk. We take acceptable risks all
the time: flying in planes, eating sushi, playing with strange
dogs all of those are acceptable risks. And maybe youll crash,
maybe youll get food poisoning, maybe youll get rabies, but
what kind of quality would your life have if you didnt take
those risks?
And hybrids arent vastly unsafe. They are reasonably safe. So
driving a hybrid isnt an unconscionable risk; its a sensible
one. And its a risk that brings with it no small amount of moral
rectitude. When given the choice between a car thats reasonably
safe and low-emitting and a car thats marginally safer and
high-emitting, my vote falls with the reasonably safe car. If I
do have kids (unlikely), Id like to tell them, Yes, I let you
swim even though you could drown, and yes I let you eat cookie
dough even though you could get salmonella, and yes, I was
driving you to school in a conscience-friendly vehicle while our
global climate went down the toilet.
The choice of a hybrid is, for me, largely a matter of principle,
but also an attempt to push for a greater hybrid trend. The more
hybrid vehicles on the road, the fewer SUVs and steel-heavy
midsize cars there will be, and (hopefully) well get to a point
where most of the cars on the road are of comparable weights, and
we wont have to worry about a whopping 5 tons of Hummer bearing
down on a compact car.
Its a sharp slap in the face to my Catholic school education
that I cant bring myself to levy absolute moral judgments. But
its true I cant claim that my morality on this issue is
entirely satisfactory. But its the best Ive got. Morbid and
cruel as it sounds, I have to say, yes, it is right to give your
child less protection in order to contribute to a national
reduction of emissions. Yes, it is right to make sacrifices in
the face of a larger, global problem. No, it is not right to take
absurd risks, but driving a hybrid is not an absurd risk; it is a
calculated one.
But if my moral stance doesnt sway you, perhaps the cuteness of
the Prii will. Lined up on Santa Teresa Street like little J-Los
in a row, theyre simply irresistible.
*For more info on hybrid safety, visit the Vehicles and
Equipment section at www.nhtsa.dot.gov/
If youd like to discuss morality with Ruth, shell probably win,
because she had to take a year-long course on the Catechism in
11th grade. But youre welcome to take a crack at it. Please
email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with your questions, rebuttals or
wanton praise.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Li-Ion to Have 5% Hybrid Market)
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informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/02/forecast_liion_.html
Forecast: Li-Ion Batteries to Have <5% Share of Hybrid Market
by 2009 7 February 2007
Although lithium-ion will become the preferred battery technology
at some point in the future, there are still important risks and
challenges in the short term that will keep overall penetration
of the chemistry to less than 5% of the hybrid vehicle market by
2009, according to Menahem Anderman, president of Advanced
Automotive Batteries.
Anderman was speaking at the SAE Hybrid Vehicle Technologies 2007
Symposium in San Diego to provide an overview of the
opportunities and challenges for li-ion in the hybrid electric
vehicle market. Last week, Anderman testified before the US
Senate Committee on Energy and Natural resources in a hearing on
Transportation Sector Fuel Efficiency.
Lithium-ion batteries offer higher power and energy per unit
weight and volume, and better charge efficiency than NiMH
batteries. Thus, if they can maintain performance over life,
smaller and lighter batteries can be used in given applications.
These attributes allowed them to capture a major part of the
portable rechargeable battery marketwhich requires a battery
life of only 2 to 3 yearswithin a few years of their
introduction, and to generate global sales estimated at $5
billion in 2006. Nevertheless, the reliability of lithium-ion
technology for automotive applications is not provenunfriendly
failure modes, for example, are a concernand its current cost is
higher than that of NiMH.
Cost is a major concern of the industry, and one expressed by
other speakers at the Symposium. Anderman listed four primary
challenges for lithium-ion batteries for the HEV market, all
coming back to cost: cost of the battery at initial manufacturing
volumes, safety, manufacturing reliability and life.
There are four major questions that manufacturers need to
address, according to Anderman: cathode material, cell structure,
manufacturing, and pack design and application.
Cathode selection. While LiNiCoAlO2 is the most proven cathode
material, it is also the most thermally unstable at high states
of charge. LiNoCoMnO2 is gaining momentum, but there is not much
durability data yet. The newer LiMn2O4 materials are better,
according to Anderman, but the issue of life at elevated
temperatures has not been solved. LiFePO4 materials are the most
thermally stable, yet deliver lower voltage and lower energy.
Cost and life are not clear yet.
The latest trend is to use blends of materialsmore than 50% of
new cathode materials emerging are using some form of blended
material, Anderman said, hoping that 0.5 + 0.5 is greater than
1.0.
Cell structure. Cell makers use either a spirally wound
cylindrical structure which offers the best manufacturability; a
spirally wound elliptic structure, which is easier to package and
to cool; or stacked plates, which enable uniform compression but
require more handling.
In addition there is the packaging issue: hard can versus pouch
(soft). There is some question, according to Anderman, as to the
ability of pouch packaging to support the life required of the
battery in a vehicular application.
Manufacturing. The latest concern among manufacturers has been
metal impurities in the cellthe cause of the recent $450-million
recall of li-ion batteries. To guarantee power, cell makers need
to use long, thin electrodes. To guarantee safety, yield and
reliability, manufacturers must be conservative in terms of
coating specifications, thickness of separators, winding,
welding, filling and closing. Furthermore, batteries for the
hybrid applications are required to have a much longer life than
batteries targeted at consumer applications. This all translates
to high initial manufacturing costs.
Pack design and application. A number of questions emerge in this
area, including cell balancing, overcharge protection, crush
protection and temperature range.
What the automotive industry is looking for in a battery
supplier, according to Anderman, is someone with large cell
design competence, with high-volume production experience, a
significant amount of life data available, automotive supply
experience, and deep pockets.
All those attributes are not always found in a single provider.
The auto industrys experience with getting packs from cell
makers has not been great, according to Anderman. As a result,
some automakers are looking to partnerships between cell
developers and pack developers.
A good recent example of this is the partnership between cell
developer A123 Systems and pack developers Cobasys that is now
supplying li-ion packs to GM for use in the Saturn VUE plug in
work. (Earlier post.)
Anderman projects that some 783,000 hybrid vehicles will be sold
in 2009, with more than 95% of those using NiMH battery
systemsleaving about 38,000 units for lithium-ion. As a result,
he projects that hybrid vehicle applications will represent more
than 50% of the total NiMH battery market by then
Green Car Congress © 2006 BioAge Group, LLC. All Rights Reserved
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
It'll be on again Saturday morning :-)
>Cor van de Water wrote:
> .... Too bad I missed
> the show.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(12mo Reva AU testing before exported or destroyed)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Electric-car-to-undergo-safety-tests/2007/02/15/1171405349781.html
Electric car to undergo safety tests February 15, 2007 - 1:29PM
The controversial electric car known as the Reva has been given a
12 month extension so it can undergo mandatory safety testing
before it is either exported or destroyed.
A Senate estimates hearing was told of the extension on Thursday
and a spokeswoman for Roads Minister Jim Lloyd confirmed the
extension.
Government safety regulations mean the car must be pass safety
tests or either be exported or destroyed.
The Indian manufactured car was given a three month stay on
November 8, 2006 and now Mr Lloyd has granted the owners of the
car a further 12 months to put the car through safety
examinations.
Adelaide firm The Solar Shop owns the sole Reva in Australia and
was granted approval to import the Indian-made vehicle about 15
months ago.
The Department of Transport and Regional Services has also
offered to pay for the safety testing.
A department official told the estimates hearing the bill for the
tests, which destroy the vehicle in the process, could be as much
as $60,000.
"It could be $30,000 to $60,000," the official said.
This latest extension follows a long running feud between Mr
Lloyd and green groups.
Last year Mr Lloyd said the car had been used as a political tool
instead of being properly tested.
"Instead of testing the vehicle and attempting to gain
accreditation for use on Australian roads, the Reva has instead
been used for lobbying purposes and has not yet been through the
testing process it was brought out here to do in the first
place," Mr Lloyd said at the time.
© 2007 AAP Copyright © 2007. The Age Company Ltd
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Venture three-wheel plug-in hybrid)
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--- {EVangel}
http://www.gizmag.com/go/6842/
The plug-in hybrid carving three-wheeler from Venture
from Automotive February 16, 2007
Venture Vehicles has formally announced in Los Angeles, the
development of a revolutionary (not to mention very cool),
3-wheel, tilting, plug-in Hybrid vehicle under the working name
VentureOne. Its a two-passenger Hybrid vehicle that will get 100
mpg, accelerate from 0-60 in 6 seconds, will have a top speed of
over 100 mph, while being priced at under US$20,000.
In addition to the low-emission, flex-fuel Hybrid model, a
zero-emission all-electric version is also being developed that
will have an all-electric range of nearly 200 miles. A key
feature of the VentureOne is the patented Dynamic Vehicle Control
tilting technology from Dutch-based Carver Engineering that
allows the body of the vehicle to actually tilt when going
through turns while all three wheels maintain firm contact with
the road.
Carver already sells petrol-engined versions of the machine, and
the Phiaro 3-wheeler is also closely based on the Carver. But a
plug-in hybrid with a 200 mile electric range and sportscar
performance is very enticing. Production is not scheduled until
late 2008 and Venture Vehicles will initially offer two
propulsion packages for the VentureOne: the hybrid E50 and Q100,
and all-electric Venture EV model. The US$23,000 all-electric
model will top the range while the E50 hybrid will sell for
US$18,000 and the Q100 hybrid is expected to be priced under
US$20,000.
Its a truly unique and innovative vehicle, says Ian Bruce, one
of the founding partners of Venture Vehicles. With the same
height and length as the MINI Cooper, the VentureOne will have
both the performance of a sports car and the agility of a
motorcycle... creating an incredibly exhilarating driving
experience. The only way I can describe the sensation is
comparing it to flying a jet fighter at two feet off the ground.
Plus, this extraordinary performance combines the significant
environmental benefits of a flex-fuel, plug-in Hybrid with a high
level of affordability. Two electric pancake motors will power
the two rear wheels, with a small combustion engine providing
on-road recharging. When garaged, it need only be plugged into a
normal 110 outlet.
Safety is another crucial aspect of the VentureOnes design. The
vehicle will be surrounded by a steel safety cell providing
overall protection, along with other important safety features
typically found only in cars. Things like a drivers airbag,
front and side-impact protection, and rear bumper will be
standard. A host of world-class partners in design, engineering
and production are supporting the development of the VentureOne
-- firms such as BMW DesignWorks, A123 Systems, Carver
Engineering, Swift Engineering, Boshart Engineering and PML
FlightLink.
The VentureOne weighs approximately 1,200 pounds in prototype
form, with an overall width of 48 inches, a length of 11' 8", and
a 106 inch wheelbase. The engine is located in the rear of the
vehicle at a low height. The passenger compartment and the front
wheel tilt when cornering; however, the forces are aligned with
the vertical axis of the drivers body, resulting in the driver
being pressed into the seat rather than pushed across it.
Although classified as a motorcycle according to the NHTSA (since
it has three wheels), the VentureOne has an enclosed body. The
reinforced roll-cage construction in combination with
front-and-side-impact protection, and a highly efficient
passenger restraint system, give the occupants a level of
protection comparable to conventional cars or statistically, 33
times the safety of a typical motorcycle.
Venture Vehicles plans to initially offer two propulsion packages
for the VentureOne: the hybrid E50 and Q100, and all-electric
Venture EV model. Manufacturers Suggested Retail Prices (MSRP)
will range from $18,000 for the E50, to $23,000 for the
all-electric EV model with a wide range of accessories
available for each.
All three classes will incorporate the patented Dynamic Vehicle
Control system, or DVC, developed by Carver Engineering, which
allows the vehicle to tilt up to 45° side-to-side at a rate of
85° per second. All three will also feature ventilated disc
brakes and measure 3.5 meters in overall length.
The vehicles propulsion system is of a series hybrid design. The
system consists of a small internal combustion engine connected
to a 15 20 kW generator, two in-wheel 25 kW electric motors, a
four gallon fuel tank, and a 3 kWh Li-Ion battery pack. The
system is able to take energy normally lost as heat due to
braking and return it to the battery, increasing overall system
efficiency.
All three models will exceed 100mpg, with speeds of over 100 mph,
and 0-60 in 6 seconds or less a major breakthrough in the
automotive industry.
All content copyright © gizmag 2003-2007
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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--- Begin Message ---
Mark, can you elaborate on this?
What is the difference in charge algorithms that the Trojan and US Battery
require?
I was under the impression that both batteries were of similar construction
and would charge similarly. Which charger do you use?
Bruce
Mark Brueggemann wrote:
> ...I bought a USB pack... It turns out my charger won't
> charge them to the algorithm Nawaz later described to me that
> they require, and the pack was toast in 6000 miles...
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I have to chime in that a tractor trailer is getting ridculous.
If you want a solar powered car, there are 3 options.
1) Get UPenn's Solar car, 1 seater vehicle. They drove about 40 mph (more
or less) with the sun shining down. No air conditioning, no heat, no crash
protection if a Hummer runs you over. So, let's totally ditch this concept
now before we go crazy trying!
LET'S BE PRACTICAL!
2) The Best solar car I've ever seen is this
http://www.autoauditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005/photos_015.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/838
It's 1 kW of solar power. You get 15 miles a day of good sun, but if there
is no sun, you still have a 60 mile range, you just have to pay for it.
But still, at $5,000 I think the payback time is approximately 25 years
quick math I did was this
truck runs maybe 300 whrs/mile, electric is 12 cents/kwhr, convert 1
kwhr/1000whr and 15 free miles/day
Multiply all that and cancel the units for a savings of $0.54/day
divide into $5,000 for 9,259 days
Let's not forget the extra wind resistance and weight of the panels that
makes this S10 less efficient than a standar S10, which effectively cancels
the 54 cents savings per day.
Well, that's a sad bubble to burst.
Last option.
3) Get free used solar panels from a friend who is in the business and
install them in place of a bed cover.
3-5 miles on the best days of sun. It's a statement, but hardly life
changing.
In conclusion, Electric cars drive around on batteries, not solar power.
How you charge them for 3-6 hours is where you save the planet or your
wallet. Spend money on an efficient charger first before solar panels.
Why pay $5,000 for solar but build an inefficient badboy?
Going the way you were going. how much solar do I need to drive is the same
ridiculous engineering the automakers were developing with 75 kW fuel cells
(the type that accelerate and decelearate with the acceleration pedal. HOW
RIDICULOUS! Where do these guys go to school anyway?
You need a constant 15 kW fuel cell (if you're dumb enough to pay for one)
that keeps the batteries charged.
Well, I'm done.Ben
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As an EAA member, I'd like to see this become an EAA
top priority:
The bringing to market of affordable, EV
application-specific, non-toxic/low-toxic, advanced
battery chemistries, available for sale to EV owners.
Regards,
Mark S. Freidberg
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
At 07:08 PM 2/21/2007, David (Battery Boy) Hawkins wrote:
David,
With all due respect for your EV history contributions and list
administrator work, I'm going to call you out to the playground after
school regarding your comments about Zivan chargers! As I said in a post
back in 2005 (below), the K models had problems, but the NG models are rock
solid. They have a three stage algorithm that doesn't beat the life out of
the batteries, or at least not the floodies. Are you thinking of the early
They may possibly work for floodies. Don't use one for AGM's.
Just ask most Corbin Sparrow owners about how the NG3's cook their packs.
(and need a 20A circuit. Not 19.5A, a full 20A - and you had better
have short wiring runs.)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Future EV engineers in Fishersville)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.newsleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070216/NEWS01/702160339/1002
Future engineers tinker with electric vehicles
By Christina M. Mitchell/staff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FISHERSVILLE It's come a long way from the rusty-lawn-ornament
days, but the 1981 Porsche 911 sitting in the garage still looks
a far cry from its glossy magazine picture.
Its latest coat of paint primer leaves a dull orange finish on
the outside, and the bare bones interior gives it a Spartan
feel.
Still, this speedster doesn't lack that good, old get-up-and-go:
The Porsche and its garage-mate, a 1971 Datsun 240Z, recently
racked up awards for drag-racing and auto-cross in the Battery
Beach Burnout, an electric car competition held in Jupiter, Fla.
Back in Fishersville, the car is an ongoing project of the
Shenandoah Valley Governor's School's Electric Vehicle team.
"We need a speedometer, if nothing else, to be street-ready,"
said team advisor Byron Humphries, standing on the sidelines as a
few team members worked on the car in a garage behind Valley
Vo-Tech.
Humphries holds class here twice a week. Some students attend for
credit; some come just as a hobby. In the days before a race, the
serious competitors will spend almost every afternoon in the
garage.
The two electric cars have been revised and rebuilt nearly a
dozen times, especially the 240Z Datsun, the team's first
vehicle. The Datsun's owner literally was rescued from the mud
and donated it. The Porsche had a similar first life.
Each car was completely stripped and rebuilt to run on
electricity, and every year, students work on improving what
they've got.
"It drives just like any other car, to an extent," said Ben
Sharp, one of four seniors just back from the Florida race.
On a basic level, an electric car needs three main components: a
battery pack, a motor and a controller. The controller affects
the voltage, adjusting the speed as the car drives. Then there's
the wiring that hooks it all together, and, for the 240Z, a data
collector that helps students study the car's performance and
judge where to improve.
"One of the things I enjoy about this program is you have a lot
of students who kind of think they want to be engineers, and this
allows them (to try it)," Humphries said.
Students come from a variety of backgrounds. Many, like Sharp,
want to be engineers. Others, like Richard Quillen, also just
back from Florida, see it as a hobby.
"There's something about taking it out to race souped-up cars,"
Quillen said.
Some also find the environmentally friendly format appealing.
"I feel like gasoline is becoming obsolete and alternative energy
sources are needed, such as hydrogen or electric vehicles," said
Casey Gardner, another senior racer and future engineer.
The EV trend isn't just limited to high school, either. Some of
Humphries' former students pursued the technology in college and
beyond.
Taylor Newill, class of 2001, works as the director of motor
sports at Brigham Young University, where he's a junior. Young
supervises five university racing teams, including three for
electric vehicles.
"It was a platform to apply the things that I was learning in
class to something that would be useful, and I was somewhat
involved with racing in some other forms at that point anyway,"
Newill said of his experience with the Governor's School team.
Now, he plans to pursue a career in professional racing,
designing and refining cars as a team engineer.
He said anyone thinking about going into the field will need to
court opportunities.
"The one overarching principle that I've seen that worked with
race cars is you have to make the opportunities yourself," he
said. "People aren't going to come to you and say, 'Hey, we want
you to do this.' You have to find what you're interested in and
work at it."
Originally published February 16, 2007
[image
http://cmsimg.newsleader.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=AA&Date=20070216&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=702160339
]
John Palmer Gregg/The News Leader
Ben Sharp works on the controller of the electric car he is
helping to build on Feb. 6 at the Shenandoah Valley Governor's
School in Fishersville.
The Shenandoah Valley Governor's School's Electric Vehicle team
will compete next in the EV Challenge on March 23-24 in Raleigh,
N.C. To find out more about the EV Challenge, visit
www.rtpnet.org/ev
[image
http://cmsimg.newsleader.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=AA&Date=20070216&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=702160339&Ref=V2
John Palmer Gregg/The News Leader]
Ben Sharp, right, Casey Gardner, center, and Richard Quillen talk
about what still needs to be done to the electric car they are
building Feb. 6 at the Shenandoah Valley Governor's School in
Fishersville.
Copyright ©2007 News Leader. All rights reserved.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Hybrids in DARPA's 11/3/07 autonomous Grand Challenge)-long
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/16722956.htm
Stanford, 90 other teams ready for city-streets robot race
Posted on Sat, Feb. 17, 2007 By Matt Nauman Mercury News
[
http://www.mercurynews.com/images/mercurynews/mercurynews/16722/279641653838.jpg
Karen T. Borchers / Mercury News -
Jonathan Stark, leader of Team Orange, uses a joystick and a
commuter as he and Melonee Wise work on a Ford Escape Hybrid SUV
in Menlo Park that will compete in the race.]
[
http://www.mercurynews.com/images/mercurynews/mercurynews/16722/279641620394.jpg
The robotic vehicles will rely on infrared cameras and sensors to
detect and avoid objects during the DARPA Urban Challenge, which
will held Nov. 3 at an undisclosed site in the western United
States.]
[
http://www.mercurynews.com/images/mercurynews/mercurynews/16722/279641637116.jpg
Stark and Wise, right, pause during experiments on the Ford
Escape Hybrid SUV.]
[
http://www.mercurynews.com/images/mercurynews/mercurynews/16722/279641670560.jpg
The team will use Volkswagen Passat "Junior" in the 2007 event.]
When Stanford's robotic SUV won the first human-less car race in
late 2005 -- crossing a symbolic and literal finish line and
earning a $2 million prize for the school -- some thought it was
the end of a quest.
But, just like every climber who attempts Everest after Sir
Edmund Hillary, other challenges exist and progress remains to be
made. ``It was clear we were at the beginning and not the end,''
said an official with the Defense Advanced Research Projects
Agency (DARPA) that stages the robot race called the Grand
Challenge.
That's why, later this year, the race moves from desert to
downtown, as these unmanned vehicles will attempt to avoid people
and buildings instead of sagebrush and ravines.
About 90 teams have signed up for the third Grand Challenge, to
be called the Urban Challenge, in November. The race requires all
vehicles to be autonomous -- they're not operated via remote
control or with any other human contact, interference or
direction.
The 2005 winner, the Stanford Racing Team that combined
artificial-intelligence academics from the university, vehicle
engineers from Volkwagen's Silicon Valley R&D lab in Palo Alto,
and the deep pockets of a Sand Hill Road venture capital firm, is
back. So, too, are parts of another team of tech-minded dreamers
who called themselves Team Underdawg. This time, instead of a
$500 junker from Craigslist and a San Benito County barn for a
workshop, the team is using a modern hybrid vehicle with
sophisticated electronic controls and extra battery power.
There's no doubt that the success of Stanley, Stanford's
victorious robotic Volkswagen Touareg sport-utility vehicle,
changed public awareness and what people thought robots could do.
A deluge of global media coverage ensued, after which Stanley
toured the United States and Europe like a celebrity. Wired
magazine proclaimed it as ``the No. 1 robot of all time.''
``The Grand Challenge was fantastic,'' said Mike Montemerlo, a
senior research engineer in the Stanford Artificial Intelligence
Lab and the team's software guru, ``but you still couldn't take
Stanley and put him on a real road.''
This time around, the group is prepping Junior, a VW Passat
station wagon for the event.
Junior and other vehicles face ``a totally different challenge,''
said Jonathan Stark, leader of Team Orange (formerly Team
Underdawg), a privately funded group of Silicon Valley engineers.
``It's all urban. It's likely to be largely paved or at least
gravel streets, so we're not looking at avoiding boulders.''
His team is preparing its three Ford Escape Hybrid SUVs in an
office building in Menlo Park. Stanford has its three diesel
Passats in a Quonset hut on campus or at Volkswagen's lab in Palo
Alto. Teams will race only one vehicle, but some use more than
one for research, practice drives and parts.
While buoyed by its 2005 victory, the Stanford team isn't cocky.
They acknowledge the task ahead is daunting. If the 2005 Grand
Challenge was the equivalent of making a free throw, the Urban
Challenge ``is more like deftly evading the defense to surge to
the hoop without charging, traveling or committing fouls,'' said
Pamela Mahoney, a partner with MDV Mohr-Davidow Ventures, which
is providing financial, marketing and technical support to
Stanford's team.
A robot driving in a city is ``a very difficult problem,''
Montemerlo said. ``That's where the hardest driving situations
are. We have pedestrians and bicyclists and cars in every
direction.''
Vehicles will need to follow traffic rules, park, back up and
merge into traffic -- all while avoiding other robots and perhaps
human-driven vehicles on the course. Just like humans, they need
to make many decisions, and all of them the right ones,
Montemerlo said.
Sebastian Thrun, director of Stanford's Artificial Intelligence
Lab and leader of the robot car team, suggests that no victor
might emerge from this year's event because of the complexity of
the task and the possibility of crashes with other robots.
Norman Whitaker, based in Arlington, Va., as program manager for
the Urban Challenge, insists this year's event won't be a
demolition derby, but teams worry that crashes might occur.
``If a robotic vehicle is ever to be useful on a battlefield,
they must get through this,'' Whitaker said.
The Grand Challenge event evolved from a congressional mandate
that one-third of ground combat vehicles be unmanned by 2015. In
the first Grand Challenge, held in 2004, no vehicle traveled more
than seven miles, so there was no winner. But by October 2005,
five teams completed a 131-mile route in the Nevada desert.
Stanford's team did it in the quickest time, less than seven
hours, and earned $2 million. This year, the race is 60 miles and
must be done within six hours.
Stanford used its winnings to fund a fellowship among other
things.
The decision to focus on autonomous vehicles in a city was
obvious, Whitaker said. Although some missions might take place
in the middle of nowhere, in most cases vehicles ``have to
confront and address other vehicles, pedestrians, animals, donkey
carts. There are lots of unknowns out there,'' he said.
In addition to teams representing universities and others that
are loose collections of entrepreneurs and tinkerers, this year's
event has attracted a dozen international teams from China,
Germany, Mexico and elsewhere. It also has attracted major
military suppliers and participants such as Raytheon, Northrop
Grumman, Oshkosh Truck and Honeywell.
Besides Stanford and Team Orange, two other teams have ties to
Northern California.
The Berkeley-Sydney Driving Team is a global pairing. The team's
Toyota RAV4 is being prepared in Australia right now, said
Jonathan Sprinkle, executive director of UC-Berkeley's Center for
Hybrid and Embedded Software Systems.
``We'd certainly enjoy winning, but our goal first and foremost
is to perform research that moves forward the idea of autonomous
vehicles,'' Sprinkle said. He's even developed a short-hand way
of explaining the race. ``When I describe it to my parents, I say
it's cruise control on steroids.''
The I-Team, based in Campbell, remains somewhat mysterious. It's
one of the few Challenge participants that does not have its own
Web site, describing its team only as ``a small group of
privately funded individuals'' on DARPA's Web site.
Contact Matt Nauman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 408-920-5701.
© 2007 MercuryNews.com All Rights Reserved.
===
http://darpa.mil/grandchallenge
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(EVs creating buzz on NC Methodist University's campus)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://rdu.news14.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=100366
Electric cars creating buzz on campus
2/16/2007 4:35 PM By: Ilin Chen
[
http://images.news14.com/media/2007/2/16/images/01____electric_car2.jpg
Electric cars reach speeds around 25 miles per hour.]
FAYETTEVILLE A Fayetteville car dealer is making electric cars.
Its the only dealership in North Carolina selling the clean but
slow vehicles and they're creating quite a buzz on Methodist
University's campus.
But how do you sell a car to Americans when it's small, light and
doesn't go very fast?
"It has been challenging, but it's also been very exciting
because there's a lot of excitement when it comes to these cars.
There's a lot of people who look at it and are very interested
when you tell them it's all electric," said Travis Hibler of
Bleecker Electric Car Company.
Hibler and his sales team take all the buzz about electric cars
and make sure to plug the environmental benefits.
[WATCH THE VIDEO Electric Car Showcase
http://rdu.news14.com/shared/video/buildasx.asp?AdShown=&vids=21401
A Fayetteville car dealer is making electric cars.]
"There's no noise pollution and zero emissions because these cars
do not emit any air pollution, said Hibler.
This is one of the key differences: Instead of having to fill up
your car with gasoline, you plug it in to recharge the
batteries.
But when it comes to electricity -- with every positive, there's
also a negative.
"It wasn't that smooth of a ride, but, I definitely think within
the next couple of years, they'll be able to make it a little
more smooth, be able to go a little further, and just a little
more user-friendly," said test driver Lauren Hulce.
These cars only go up to 25 miles per hour, which is why the
company is marketing them to colleges and universities.
"Any other college campuses where security, maintenance has to do
some driving around, these are going to be great cost-saving
vehicles for the campuses," said marketing professor Jim Marcin.
[
http://images.news14.com/media/2007/2/16/images/02____electric_car_pump2.jpg
Electric cars use batteries instead of gasoline.]
Hibler has already sold electric cars to one area university. He
said even if the rest of the country isn't as charged as he is
about them, but is positive that will soon change.
The cars cost between $12,000 and $15,000.
The Triangle Electric Auto Association said many of its members
have converted their gas-powered cars and drive them to and from
work.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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