EV Digest 6459
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Controlling an alternator (without wrecking it)?
by "Darin - at - metrompg.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Battery load tester
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EV bashing, RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Green Meanie motors on Ebay
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: "New" motors for the KillaCycle - 2 for sale
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EV bashing
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) self charging ev no preptuial motion
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Battery load tester
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: self charging ev no preptuial motion
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Regenerative suspension
by xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) contactor controllers (was RE: EV bashing, RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock)
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV bashing, RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: EV bashing, RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Controlling an alternator (without wrecking it)?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) E-Woody {was RE: contactor controllers (was RE: EV bashing, RE: T-105
Sitcker Shock)}
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) If an employee at a battery plant overfilled your electrolyte
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Anyone have a data sheet for the Ford Lambda DC/DC converter
PIC-1375-1 ?
by "bortel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Zivan NG3
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: E-Woody {was RE: contactor controllers (was RE: EV bashing, RE: T-105
Sitcker Shock)}
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Optima batteries
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: EV bashing, RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Regenerative suspension
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Controlling an alternator (without wrecking it)?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: EV bashing, RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I've read a few posts in the archive about using a tailshaft-connected
alternator for a basic kind of regen, either to the 12v house battery or
by modding the alternator's voltage regulator to permit it to supply
higher voltage to the traction pack.
To keep things simple, let's assume this question is about 12v regen.
Is it as simple as finding the alternator's field wire and feeding it
something between zero to 12v to get the desired output?
Are there any implications (for alternator life) of switching the field
in and out while the alternator is spinning merrily away?
thanks -
Darin
Project ForkenSwift (AKA Joe Sixpack Metro)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The most clever battery load tester (capacity test) I have ever heard
of was described to me by Steve Ciciora.
This is limited to 12 volt (and perhaps 24 volt) batteries. You could
put two of your six volts in series, however.
Buy an inverter that will handle the wattage of interest. These are
insanely cheap these days for what you get. Connect the inverter to a
120 volt load that it will handle, like a 600 watt floodlight or a
space heater. Connect up an electric clock. Set it to 12 o'clock.
Next, connect the fully-charged battery to the inverter. The inverter
will pull a constant wattage and then will automatically shut off
when it reaches its low-voltage threshold, typically 10.5 volts.
The clock will shut off with the inverter so you will know the W-hr
capacity of the battery.
You can use this to cycle up new batteries or to test older batteries.
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Fred, Damon and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: EV bashing, RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 18:00:09 -0600
>HEY stop the personal bashing . the guy said he could not
>afford the ev live style . ev's are not for everyone .
>while the work part is not hard for me remember I am an
>electrician !!!~! and I enjoy electrical work of all kinds
He's a ham and said EV's, not his EV, were not
viable, cost effective, which is plain wrong. He, like the
auto companies, are blaming EV's for their own mistakes.
And by simply changing bodies, bed, lowering drag,
lightening things up, ect, he could have a good cost
effective EV at a reasonable price with great range, battery
life.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: damon henry<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 5:06 PM
> Subject: RE: EV bashing, RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock
>
>>
> >
> > Hi Mark and All,
> >
> > While I'm sorry you are disappointed in
>your
> >EV, it's your fault for building such an ineff pig, lead
> >mine, not because EV's are not cost effective.
> > One can build eff EV very easily as I've
> >described in detail many times yet no one seems to
>listen,
> >instead converting overweight ICE's into massively
> >overweight unaerodynamic EV's needing twice the EV drive
>,
> >battery pack costs while geting 1/2 the range,
>acceleration.
>
> Jerry,
>
> I enjoy reading your posts, but Mark made some very valid
>points from real
> world experience which cannot be written off as just
>stupidity on his part.
I wasn't saying that, just when he said EV's were
not viable. I dispute that wholeheartedly, unashamely.
>
> I also don't believe your assertion that building an
>effecient EV is easy.
There are many ways to do that, used kitcars, early
mintrucks with aero mods, aeroshells, ect. Picking large
frontal area 3,300lb+ pickups is not a good choice as an EV
starting point if low cost is your purpose.
> I have been reading about your Freedom EV project for
>quite a while now, and
> none of it has sounded easy.
My Ewoody is quite easy to do. I built the
body/frames in about 100 hrs. So easy, cheap you can build
several until you get it right ;^D.
Doing one to be put into production in composites
where parts can be found, ect, makes it many times harder
than grabbing whatever you find cheap.
If it's so easy, why was it
>half finished on a
> trailer at the BBB event?
Cash, production details, weather. Luckily I'm now
in a shop instead of a carport after the BBB!!
I know you would have loved to
>have it finished
> before then. How long have you been working on it (isn't
>it a multiyear
> project now),
Yes for sure.
2 yrs so far.
and how many hours have you and others put
>into it?
2,000+
I admire
> you for doing it, but to claim that it has been easy is
>crazy talk.
I wasn't talking building from scracth as the only
option. I've described many ways many times.
For instance an EV VW bug makes a great under $2-4k
EV if you don't need long range or much time over 50mph. The
VW Ghia makes a good one over 50mph cheaply!
I had a good one when I decided to sell plans for a
wood/epoxy version that would have taken about 300-500 hrs
to build complete but no one wanted them!! Luckily just
after that GM crushed the EV-1 which got people interested
in the FG production version. So the new Ewoody plans
version became the male molds, design the Freedom EV is made
from. It's really what alomost the first Ewoody was suppose
to look like before I screwed it up. But as my first car
design, it did work for 10 yrs!!
>
> I understand you built the ewoody before that, but as I
>recall you are
> leveraging skills that you have honed over years of hard
>work in the boat
> building industry and even at that it doesn't seem easy
>to me.
With plans it's like doing a balsa airplane, just
larger. Cut out piece of ply and bend, glue them together.
Or a very small plywood boat. To me it's like building a
14' inboard.
I can do it in about 100 hrs though others 2-5x's as
long. But that's still is so much better, cheaper, longer
range, higher speeds and not much longer to do as to convert
a pickup if you include it's disassembly, clean up, ect.
>
> I know you thought the ewoody was cool and claim the
>girls loved it, and I
> have never seen it in person, but from the pictures I
>have seen of it I'll
> bet more people than not would be embarrassed to drive
>it.
I agree it looks wierd, bad and always said it was a
mistake as my first design 12 yrs ago but it works well
enough. A guy offered to buy it recently but I'll just sand
it down, veneer it, clear coat, new batts, contactor
controller and it's ready to go and looking fairly good even
after it totaled a compact car that rearended it that cost
me $40 to put back on the road. Most of the pics are after
that accident, it sitting out in the Fla weather for 8 yrs!!
It's hard to be embrassed though with everybody
smiling, giving you the thumbs up, taking pics, coming over
to see it or wanting to buy it. I agree with you but go
with the flow. I'm also too cheap to give up a $100/yr
costing EV!!! It's probably the most photographed car in
town with camera phones.
I think you will
> find the same reaction to your Freedom EV. They are both
>radically
> different from the norm, and I think something that a lot
>of people will not
> be willing to accept.
The thousand+ people already wanting one who have
contacted me beg to differ including paying customers and
those wanting factories!!
>
> Building any kind of EV is hard work,
Once the Freedom EV is fully into production, I
expect it to only take 25 hrs to make based on my boat
production experience.
I can't believe others here haven't went into EV
production? Afterall I'm very poor and only finished the 8th
grade. If I can do it, why haven't others with much larger
resources? Many EV's on this list cost more than it's taking
to put the
Freedom EV into production!!
and building one
>that meets most
> peoples speed, range, comfort, budget and style
>requirements is even harder
> yet.
If they think, listen there are excellent shortcuts
to make it easier, less costly, ect.
Jerry Dycus
>
> damon
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Shawn
I just checked just to see and they say sold, bought
now. Did you sell those pup's already?
If so, how come you got a wad of cash and I got 2
warranty obligations and a broken heart?, LMAO!! You
know you just can't trust those Floridians, hehe.
At least this way if they're gonna be raced they have
a better chance of actually getting a record, ohh 8^P
Anyway what's the scoop?
Cya
Jim
____________________________________________________________________________________
Have a burning question?
Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Note that these beautiful "souped up" motors have already sold for
the $750 "buy it now" price. :-)
Bill D.
At 06:50 PM 2/22/2007, you wrote:
Hey Damon
You know I try my best not to price myself out of a
job so to speak but I also know how much time it takes
me to do what I call throwing a little love on a motor
(I know Wayland loves it when I talk like that lol).
Honestly, I couldn't afford a Hi-Torque motor if "I"
wasn't Hi-Torque (lol) but then I can't afford a
Rudman charger or a Zilla either so I'm not laughing
my way to the bank here. I actually make less on a
custom motor than I do a lift motor and in fact just a
standard build on a 6.7" motor runs $395.00 dealer
cost forklift wise. Now I probably have around 15
hours shop time into each of them plus some small
parts costs even though they were new.
Not to toot my horn but that's 15 hours Jim Husted
time so I'm doubting it could be done faster, lmao.
One of these motors was in fact a Wayland motor that
John actually just gave to Shawn being Shawn only had
one to start with. You know, I don't think Wayland is
truly recognized for how much he does for the EV
community. The amount of time, money, and work it
took to buy up 32 motors and then sell them for 125.00
surely wasn't in "his" best interest, lol.
Anyway I wouldn't call Waylands deal something
everyone should hope to expect.
Anyway I wasn't upset about the post just thought I'd
put some insight on the other side of the coin. To be
honest I'm courious how this will unfold being my
weakest skill would be in my marketing. To be honest
I thought Bill was pretty happy with his motors I sent
him but I razzberried your 125.00 cost, lmao 8^P
Tell you what Damon if you're EVer in my neck of the
woods come put a day or two at the shop and we'll
build you a motor and we'll see what you want for it,
LMAO! I got an old core that's got your name on it,
you just better bring your grubbies. Just to prove a
point I'm gonna grab a core and paint your name on it
and display it till you take me up on it, hehe!!!
I will hold it and squeeze it and call it Damon
EVeryday, LMAO!!
Had fun
Cya
Jim Husted
--- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm not sure how much the Jim Husted magic costs,
> but stock these motors
> have been seen for a lot less, probably because John
> Wayland bought a lot of
> about 32 of these a couple of years ago and spread
> them around at his cost
> of $125 each. I got one for that price then picked
> up another in trade for
> some old NiCads I had laying around. For racing
> these motors might be a
> bargain, but for just building a street motorcycle,
> probably not.
>
> damon
>
>
> >From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: RE: "New" motors for the KillaCycle - 2
> for sale
> >Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 07:17:49 -0700
> >
> >The "Buy it now" price of $750 is super bargain.
> These motors should sell
> >quickly. Without that upper limit, I would have
> expected these motors to go
> >for about $1,000 each.
> >
> >Bill Dube'
> >
> >At 09:13 PM 2/21/2007, you wrote:
> >>Last fall Jim Husted took 2 ADC 6.7" Tropica
> motors and re-worked them for
> >>me for a drag bike I was going to build that was
> to have a dual-motor
> >>setup.
> >>He Kevlar banded the comms, advanced them, moved
> the temp sensor to the
> >>brush holder and added solid copper brush leads,
> and more - the same mods
> >>he
> >>has since done to Bill's Killacycle motors. These
> motors are pure works of
> >>art. To echo the words of John, Bill and others,
> Jim is THE man when it
> >>comes to motors.
> >>
> >>Unfortunately, for several reasons, the bike
> project is not going to be. I
> >>am selling the bike frame and parts and after
> talking with Jim tonight, I
> >>have listed the motors on eBay for sale. There are
> lots of pictures and
> >>details of the motors on the listing. If anyone is
> interested or has any
> >>questions please let me know.
> >>
> >>The listings are:
> >>
>
>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230095715956
> >>
>
>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230095716902
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>
> >>Shawn Waggoner
> >>561-543-9223
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Want a degree but can't afford to quit? Top school
> degrees online - in as
> fast as 1 year
>
http://forms.nextag.com/goto.jsp?url=/serv/main/buyer/education.jsp?doSearch=n&tm=y&search=education_text_links_88_h288c&s=4079&p=5116
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At the risk of reinforcing my schoolmarm image ;-), a couple of comments ...
1. EV APPROPRIATENESS.
As a little PM before this thread goes off the track, I'd like to remind y'all
of
our charter. It includes the following statement:
"The EV Electric Vehicle Discussion Mailing List ... is not intended to
discuss either EV appropriateness or comparisons with other transportation
primary drive modes such as the venerable internal combustion engine."
You may read the entire EVDL charter (it's not much more than that!) at the
EVDL support website :
http://www.evdl.org/
Being pretty much a believer in free speech, I hesitate to cut off debate of
any
kind. But I also believe in editorial discipline. The EVDL is not a political
forum. Discussions of whether EVs are practical >>in general<< are off topic
for this list. When you subscribe to this list you're implicitly stating that
you
support EVs as being a reasonably good idea in general, even if not
necessarily for you personally.
This is not to say that we shouldn't examine whether an EV is a viable choice
for a given individual in a particular situation with specific needs. That's a
valid use of our substantial knowledge pool here. But when one person
attempts to extrapolate an EV's impracticality for HIM to the entire universe
of vehicle users, that's a thread which deserves to die - the sooner the better.
In summary, don't bash EVs.
2. ANTISOCIAL BEHAVIOR.
Stating your opinion is a good thing. Suggesting what you think might work
for a list member is great. But insulting or berating other list members
because you don't agree with their choices is just plain bad manners.
People who do that should be treated as trolls and ignored.
We're fortunate that the vast majority of EVDL members are pretty
reasonable people. Thus it shouldn't be too tough to make note of the very
few who behave like unsocialized children and refuse to respond to them in
ANY context.
It's generally not the policy of the EVDL to ban members. We've shown the
door to only 3 that I know of since the list's inception in 1991. All were
egregious trolls.
Therefore, I count on the members to help control the rabble. You do this by
ostracizing them. If you have trouble ignoring the very small number of
unpleasant people in this neighborhood, and find yourself tempted to spit
back, I suggest that you take advantage of email's great flexibility in
avoiding
them. Just add their addresses to your email filter so you never see their
posts.
In summary, don't feed the trolls.
Thanks, all. Now, back to EVs.
David Roden
EVDL Administrator
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
a few days back we were talking about a practical ev that could run on solar
power etc and I chimed in with the self charging idea and listed a post that
others could not find . I tried my ref and got no results soooo to try again
nano institute of technology . com all one word hope this one works better
they have an interesting concept .
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
followed my own link and failed again!! sorry to trouble you guys but they did
have 2 of these for sale @ $15.
----- Original Message -----
From: FRED JEANETTE MERTENS<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: Battery load tester
found this on e bay will it help ? these work well on the batteries at work
t125's on cushman scooters
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebaylSAPl.dll?viewitem&item=22085138550&ssPageName=ADME.B.EF:US:11<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebaylSAPl.dll?viewitem&item=22085138550&ssPageName=ADME.B.EF:US:11>
----- Original Message -----
From: John O'Connor<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]:[email protected]>>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Battery load tester
Thanks to all that responded.
On Feb 21, 2007, at 11:31 PM, Mark Brueggemann wrote:
> I'm kinda rusty at this but I'll give it a shot:
> --- John O'Connor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
<snip>
>> What is the max voltage you can do this with in relative safety?
> Power would the the safety thing, I would think. One 6V flooded
> will heat a 5gal bucket fairly warm, so if you're testing a big
> pack you will have to keep a fresh supply of cool water to the
> load wire. Common sense voltage safety limits you to 48V.
Unfortunately when it comes to this sort of stuff "I have little, if
any, common sense", so thanks for answering.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fred,
It does not come up.
I tried Googling for nanoinstituteoftechnology
but found only references to search engines and domain registration engine's
reserved pages.
Either it is just recently updated, but not propagated around the Internet
yet, or the website is still parked.
The Whois database has this on the .com domain (confirming the domain is
still parked):
Registrant:
Richard Huff
P.O. 352776
Palm Coast FL 32135
US
Domain name: NANOINSTITUTEOFTECHNOLOGY.COM
Administrative Contact:
Huff Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED]
P.O. 352776
Palm Coast FL 32135
US
01.9044614545
Technical Contact:
Huff Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED]
P.O. 352776
Palm Coast FL 32135
US
01.9044614545
Registration Service Provider:
WSM Domains retail - 24/7 Support -502-214-4123
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
1-800-455-1795
502-214-4140 (fax)
https: //www.wsmdomains.com/help/support.html
Register your domain today! www.wsmdomains.com
Full DNS management - Free URL forwarding
Host with the family of Hosting.com companies
Registrar of Record: TUCOWS INC.
Record last updated on 12-Jan-2007.
Record expires on 09-Jan-2009.
Record created on 09-Jan-2006.
Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.PARKINGNAMESERVERS.COM
NS2.PARKINGNAMESERVERS.COM
NS3.PARKINGNAMESERVERS.COM
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of FRED JEANETTE MERTENS
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 6:22 PM
To: ev
Subject: self charging ev no preptuial motion
a few days back we were talking about a practical ev that could run on solar
power etc and I chimed in with the self charging idea and listed a post that
others could not find . I tried my ref and got no results soooo to try
again nano institute of technology . com all one word hope this one works
better they have an interesting concept .
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've wondered about the usefulness of pursuing regen
through suspension components. Linear generators
instead of shock absorbers on each wheel could capture
energy from every bump along the way. I would imagine
this might be more practical with heavier vehicles,
(thinking specifically of my own project, an off road
vehicle which sees large suspension cycling.)
I know Bose was working on an electronic shock
absorber, but they used the energy generated to
actively dampen and adjust the suspension so they
didn't end up with a net energy gain.
Thoughts?
John
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Just look at controllers, a contactor controller
> puts out more power at 1/10th the cost, can be
> very smooth, reliable, easily repairable in
> minutes beside the road if necessary...
Tell me more about "very smooth" -- how so?
(really wanting to believe, but intuitively doubting)
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Feb 22, 2007, at 2:09 PM, jerryd wrote:
While I'm sorry you are disappointed in your
EV, it's your fault for building such an ineff pig, lead
mine, not because EV's are not cost effective.
So, in other words, your opinion is that EVs can't be normal vehicles.
If I believed you I wouldn't want an EV, thank you.
I fear this is becoming the SMUG list
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smug_Alert!>
I want to thank those experienced list members who have 'hung in there'
for continuing to provide solid EV advice.
Paul "neon" G.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> You sound like a fat man complaining about it while
> stuffing his face with food.
I appreciate the metaphor, but the delivery is unkind.
> So instead of bashing EV's, why don't you bash yourself
> for building such a pile as it's your fault, not anyone else's!!
Again, there is truth, embedded in ungenerous delivery -- no need to go
there.
I value real-live reports from anyone -- Mark just happens to have
posted his from the glass-half-empty side of EVs. I believe I may value
that even more, as sometimes I worry about the internet yielding only
the outlook from rose-colored glasses or blacked-out blinders. Mark's
experience seems to come from the middle...
Jerry, I value your experience from the glass-greater-than-half-full
side of things -- keep it coming!
> I expect my Freedom EV to beat the pants off of an
> ICE in cost, performance getting 230mpg cost equivilent,
> 150-400mpg energy equivilent....
I seriously look forward to having that as a choice... right now we're
short of available choices in the superlight glider department.
> All it takes is a little forsight, planning, engineering
> to solve any EV problem.
...and the faith to wait for it to become available, or the energy to
jump in (again on faith) to make it happen myself.
I want a practical car, not a lifestyle car.
I want the EV grin without my wife having to grin-and-bear-it!
The Electric Woody passes muster for me, but the better half would kill
me -- likely through judicious application of the charger to personal
appendages that would be better left in their natural, neutral-charged
state!
E-Woody link: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/168.html
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can convert the alternator to 110 vdc by disconnecting the 12 volt
negative and positive from the battery to the alternator. The problem is
that the alternator is self grounded to the car frame, so you can either
mount the alternator on a hard insulator board to isolated it.
Or you have to disconnect the regulator positive and ground straps from the
chassis of the alternator and reconnect only the ground to the field by
using a 4 pole 2 position transfer switch.
If you search the WEB on 12 volt to 110 vdc alternator conversion. You
should be able to find a wiring diagram on how to do this or you can get
converter kits for alternators from some auto parts store for a standard
alternator.
The next problem, is to be able to get to 110 vdc, you have to full rev up
the alternator to get this output. At about 1000 rpm it is only up to 35
volts. The output volts of a un regulated alternator varies with the rpm.
So this method does not work so good.
Another method is to used a Inverter-Alternator, which a lot of heavy
vehicles use for 110 vdc or 120 vac output and at the same time has a output
of 13.5 to 16 volts which can be adjusted on the outside of the alternator.
This type alternator, must be excited first by using a 12 volt source and
then the alternator output is transfer switch from the battery to a 110 vdc
load. It only needs about 1200 rpm to maintain this voltage.
I am using a Delco 12 V 145 A Inverter-Alternator that either has a output
of 110 VDC at 7kw. This is then inverted to 120 VAC 60 hz with a Dynomote
Inverter which is design for this Alternator. This alternator has seven
wires connected to it.
The Dynomote company also makes DC-DC-AC converter inverter that can come
off a battery pack. The largest one they have is battery pack to 110 VDC
7kw which can be inverted to 120 VAC 6KW at 60 HZ.
Some times these Inverter-Alternators are use alone to just generate 120 VAC
60 Hz or you can get it with a built in DC-DC 13.5 to 16 vdc output. You
could also plug in a Smart charger into one of the receptacle which can
provide a 12 volt supply.
I can either drive this Inverter-Alternator off the pilot shaft of the motor
using a electric clutch. It is only engage every time I coast down a long
hill, which keeps the EV at a maintain speed. Anytime I press the
accelerator, three 3 hp motors that drive the alternator, AC and vacuum pump
and the power steering unit that is power off the main battery pack.
In the winter time, the Inverter-Alternator, drives three electric heaters,
three pumps, and four fans. This load helps me to maintain a speed on a
steep icy hill. Coming to a stop, I can let up on the accelerator and the
EV will come to a stop without braking.
All my drive units are 120 vac 60 hz rated. I do not have to purchase
something special. Can replace any one of these drive units from any local
supplier.
Why back in 1976, this type of system only cost $400.00. Today, the
DC-DC-AC converter-inverter is about $3000.00.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darin - at - metrompg.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 4:30 PM
Subject: Controlling an alternator (without wrecking it)?
> I've read a few posts in the archive about using a tailshaft-connected
> alternator for a basic kind of regen, either to the 12v house battery or
> by modding the alternator's voltage regulator to permit it to supply
> higher voltage to the traction pack.
>
> To keep things simple, let's assume this question is about 12v regen.
>
> Is it as simple as finding the alternator's field wire and feeding it
> something between zero to 12v to get the desired output?
>
> Are there any implications (for alternator life) of switching the field
> in and out while the alternator is spinning merrily away?
>
> thanks -
>
> Darin
> Project ForkenSwift (AKA Joe Sixpack Metro)
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Huh -- replying to one's own post has got to be the height of
self-indulgence.
Here I go, regardless! :D
Jerry, your other post got to dig up the link to the EV Album for your
E-Woody:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/168.html
The 100-mile range and 60mph speed estimates are damn impressive for a
two-seater vehicle, pushed by 48 volts into a 5HP motor!
If you were to do this again, knowing what you know now, would you do
anything differently?
How well did the 8-speed contactor work (I need to search a bit on *HOW*
it works).
Randii (who has been mulling over a 3-wheel roadster design for some
time)
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Burleson
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 7:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: contactor controllers (was RE: EV bashing, RE: T-105 Sitcker
Shock)
> Just look at controllers, a contactor controller
> puts out more power at 1/10th the cost, can be
> very smooth, reliable, easily repairable in
> minutes beside the road if necessary...
Tell me more about "very smooth" -- how so?
(really wanting to believe, but intuitively doubting)
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
such that it went up into the filler neck on charge,
would that not account for sudden voltage drops from
(on a 144V pack) down to 90V?
That's exactly what I'm experiencing on my floodies.
I'll pull 2-4kWh out, and suddenly have these huge
sags-- with a BRAND NEW PACK. Leave the car for an
hour or two, and voila: the problem disappears!
(presumably because the remaining electrolyte has
mixed) right?
The solution would be to charge the heck out of the
batteries, to lose water, and concentrate the
remaining electrolyte. I'm going to need to do that
gradually, as I don't want to overcharge and lose
active material.
Do you think I've solved this mystery?
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul,
I have the complete schematic and wiring cheat sheets (plug pinouts, etc).
I'll send copies of them to you.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Wallace [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 4:03 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Anyone have a data sheet for the Ford Lambda DC/DC converter
PIC-1375-1 ?
Nice looking converter. Used in the EV Ranger. Must have a fairly high
input voltage range, but just exactly what is the range? What is the
pinout and functions for the little connector? How much power can it
produce (amps at volts?) ?
thanks,
Paul Wallace
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My NG3 charges 16 T105 PbA batteries. Nominal 96 volts.
About half the AVCON chargers I have tried will shut off after about 30
seconds to 3 minutes.
Some give a full charge. All chargers are the same ICS-200 B.
Is this a power factor problem? (The Zivan power factor is rated as .68)
Is it possible to correct the power factor externally?
John in Sylmar, CA
PV EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 8:08 PM
Subject: E-Woody {was RE: contactor controllers (was RE: EV bashing, RE:
T-105 Sitcker Shock)}
> Jerry, your other post got to dig up the link to the EV Album for your
> E-Woody:
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/168.html
>
> If you were to do this again, knowing what you know now, would you do
> anything differently?
Just guessing, but I'd say he'd probably not build his first prototype
inside
his living room. <vbg>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I first started monitoring the EV lists, the Optima was one of the
favorite batteries for smaller rigs with less than 1 hour of cruise range,
especially in the smaller (under 1000 lb) vehicle. If I recall, Lee was one
of the fans of this batt. If I also recall, this batt performs well in a
variety of high load situations, such as 1/4 mile cars???
I am considering a new rig that's 1/2 the weight of my 1000 pound Freeway,
probably sticking with the 72V pack that I'm familiar with. I'd be
interested if this is still one of the better choices. I'm figuring that
this will probably do 25 miles @ my 25-40 MPH commute. The roller chassis is
about 350 pounds.
Questions:
Would this still be a good choice of battery?
Does anyone have any experience w/ the Optima look-alike batts? They are
about 60% of the cost of the Optima, but cost isn't everything.
It appears the blue or yellow tops are the way to go. Are there differences
and, if so, which is "better" for an EV?
They also have the "Troll" kit. This apparently holds a pair of batts and
comes in 3 "flavors"... just the kit (bolts two batts down), the kit with a
charger, and the kit with charger and a pair of batts. Given the low cost of
the charger, I assume it's not the greatest. Any experience? Also, is this
kit strong enough? I'd like to have some safety in case of an accident. An
accident in a small car is dangerous enough, but if a couple hundred pounds
of lead goes flying around, things could turn even uglier.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Randy Burleson
> I value real-live reports from anyone -- Mark just happens to have
> posted his from the glass-half-empty side of EVs... Jerry, I value
> your experience from the glass-greater-than-half-full side of things...
Jerry Dycus wrote:
>> I expect my Freedom EV to beat the pants off of an ICE in cost
>> and performance...
> I seriously look forward to having that as a choice... right now we're
> short of available choices in the superlight glider department.
Yes, that is indeed the situation. EVs built from scratch have much better
performance than ICE conversions that people have to cobble together
themselves. But, scratch built EVs are mighty scarce! That's why I'm working on
the Sunrise project -- to give people a way to get a truly high performance EV
*now* instead of waiting forever for the auto companies to do it.
> I want a practical car, not a lifestyle car.
> I want the EV grin without my wife having to grin-and-bear-it!
That's a good way to put it. I have the same situation. I'm proud of the EVs
I've built, but my wife considers them ahh, "odd". I'm hoping to rectify this
with the Sunrise.
> E-Woody link: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/168.html
I've seen Jerry's earlier E-Woody, and his current Freedom EV. They are real!
In fact, they are only two of the many 3-wheelers he's built. You can see the
evolution of the idea; starting very simple, and getting progressively better
developed with each model.
They really *are* simple and light, and able to provide high performance. Jerry
is a genius at KISS design. He's building vehicles right in the middle of that
vast gulf between motorcycles and cars. The Freedom may not be your kind of
car, but it certainly *can* be for many people who don't mind something truly
different.
Even though I'm working on a "competitive" car, I don't see us as competitors.
I want Jerry to succeed, too; in fact, I'm doing all I can to help him!
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This sounds interesting. Probably not a huge gain in energy, but with proper
design you could get exactly the ride you want... and probably better road
handling. (Allow the wheel to recover, w/ minimal return bounce.)
I assume the windings would vary? That way, as you step up the gain, the
first portion of travel could be "softer" and increase in stiffness. That
would duplicate some of the more advanced shocks... which allow for greater
movement in the first shock, then increase resistance as the shock travels
the length. (Road ripples don't really activate the shock very much, but at
further travel have a greater compensation.) If you could also have a method
to control direction of travel, that could actually improve road handing, I
would think.
What sort of mechanical (if any) device would you use, should the electrical
device not be able to 100% compensate for a really severe bump? What would
you use for feedback? (Lots of travel over soft bumps, but stronger if the
bumps are really severe? That'd be such as road bumps... mild, but
increasing if you hit a speed bump at higher speed?)
It sounds like you could use a softer (more flexible) spring and let the
"shocks" take up more of the dampening rate.
----- Original Message -----
From: "xx xx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 6:47 PM
Subject: Regenerative suspension
> I've wondered about the usefulness of pursuing regen
> through suspension components. Linear generators
> instead of shock absorbers on each wheel could capture
> energy from every bump along the way. I would imagine
> this might be more practical with heavier vehicles,
> (thinking specifically of my own project, an off road
> vehicle which sees large suspension cycling.)
> I know Bose was working on an electronic shock
> absorber, but they used the energy generated to
> actively dampen and adjust the suspension so they
> didn't end up with a net energy gain.
> Thoughts?
>
> John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Darin
> I've read a few posts in the archive about using a tailshaft-connected
> alternator for a basic kind of regen... To keep things simple, let's
> assume this question is about 12v regen. Is it as simple as finding the
> alternator's field wire and feeding it something between zero to 12v to
> get the desired output?
Pretty close. You don't cut the field wire itself; you find the wire that is
sensing the battery voltage, and change its circuit.
Most alternators have a built-in voltage regulator; it tries to maintain about
14v output regardless of RPM. You need to modify the voltage regulator so you
can change its voltage. The simplest scheme would be to have two setpoints; 12v
when the brakes are off, and 14v when you step on the brake pedal.
The 12v system would be powered only by the 12v battery during normal driving.
The battery will run down. But when you step on the brakes, the brake light
switch switches the alternator to 14v. Since the battery will be at 13v or
less, the alternator goes to its full output, trying to bring the 12v battery
up to 14v as quickly as possible. If it's a 60amp alternator, you get about 14v
x 60a = 840 watts. Since alternators are about 60% efficient, this loads the
traction motor at about 1.9 horsepower. That would produce modest "engine
braking".
> Are there any implications (for alternator life) of switching the field
> in and out while the alternator is spinning merrily away?
You don't switch the field itself; you switch the control signal that the
regulator is using to sense battery voltage.
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:04 PM
Subject: RE: EV bashing, RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock
> Yes, that is indeed the situation. EVs built from scratch have much better
performance than ICE conversions that people have to cobble together
themselves. But, scratch built EVs are mighty scarce! That's why I'm working
on the Sunrise project -- to give people a way to get a truly high
performance EV *now* instead of waiting forever for the auto companies to do
it.
I love the enthusiasm of individuals such as yourself. Other than a few
"mystic" cars... far beyond the means of the average mortal... the only
practical EVs seem to be the home built models. I am more than pleased that
you are undertaking this project... and (as *most* here) await your vehicle
with great anticipation.
Eugene OR has generated a number of EVs over the years. The first of these
that I saw was a model built from a factory auto... and showed at our first
Earth Day (back in 70 or 71) when our HS hosted this "party." This vehicle
was built by EWEB, our utility company. It wasn't the most practical of
cars, as it had twisted off drive shafts when the driver got the wrong gear
at start up... but was amazingly like many of the current home built cars
today.
BTW, EWEB also purchased another Eugene product... the Gizmo... to use as
meter reader vehicles. The didn't work out, but were on display at a more
recent Earth Day celebration... now a city wide event. EWEB has kept abreast
of the trends. They were one of the first utilities to offer "green" power
to consumers and, in a recent release, showed extremely low levels in carbon
output compared to other local utilities... about 10% of the carbon as
compared to PGE. (PGE sells in a number of communities, locally and across
the state.)
While most on this list can turn out their own vehicle, I personally believe
that the turn-key sort of rig (or a simple kit) is the answer for most of
us. Unfortunately, most of this sort of car isn't reliable nor practical. A
person with the knowledge to turn out his own car from a glider is 300%
advanced to the person who drives a car. That *may* be the reason so many
production rigs fail so soon after they are purchased. If the ICE vehicle
was available as a glider, and the person had to locate their own power
plant and install it, how many people would be on the road? Even if all the
components were of current ICE quality?
--- End Message ---
