EV Digest 6595
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Converting a mini classic
by Jean-Michel Mistrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Converting a mini classic
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: gensets was charging while driving question
by John Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: gensets was charging while driving question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: gensets was charging while driving question
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 2007 Power of DC EV Racing Challenge
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: ***DHSPAM*** Re: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: gensets was charging while driving question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Converting a mini classic
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: gensets was charging while driving question
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: gensets was charging while driving question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Quick PFC20 question
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Lightweight Racing Battery
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Lightweight Racing Battery (corrected link)
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Quick rundown on FAQ questions
by Rob&Amy Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Battery Data
by "David Sharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: ***DHSPAM*** Re: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
by Rob&Amy Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: ***DHSPAM*** Re: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Anyone want to climb Mt. Washington?
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Heidi's NmG first 1000 mile report...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) RE: ***DHSPAM*** Re: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
by "Tim Ireland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries?
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Recommended wire gauge
by Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Horrifying trailer towing experience
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Wire size optimization formula (was: Recommended wire gauge)
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I am 6'3 220lb :)
On 24-Mar-07, at 7:01 PM, Cor van de Water wrote:
That is a fun and light vehicle.
Hard to get a long range (not enough room for batteries)
but totally in EV-style "less is more".
One friend really likes this car and has contemplated
converting one, even though he is about 6'4" and 300#
Remember the movie where the huge black guy ripped the
driver seat out and drove while sitting on the rear bench?
Have fun,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jean-Michel Mistrot
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 5:52 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Converting a mini classic
EV Experts,
I am a software engineer looking to take the EV plunge...
So I am browsing around my local used car sites looking for a donor.
What do you all think of converting a mini classic?
It seems to me that it could make a decent commuter vehicle.
Thoughts? advice? admonishments? all welcome..
Jean-Michel
Vanocuver, BC
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jean-Michel,
Check out this Mini conversion done by an Engineer at Brusa:
http://www.brusa.li/applications/e_mini_evergreen.htm
Click on the "Characteristics" link for technical details.
Ralph
Jean-Michel Mistrot writes:
>
>
> --Apple-Mail-4-1055703279
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset=US-ASCII;
> delsp=yes;
> format=flowed
>
> EV Experts,
>
> I am a software engineer looking to take the EV plunge...
> So I am browsing around my local used car sites looking for a donor.
> What do you all think of converting a mini classic?
> It seems to me that it could make a decent commuter vehicle.
> Thoughts? advice? admonishments? all welcome..
>
> Jean-Michel
> Vanocuver, BC
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok
You guys outside California don't know anything about air pollution.
Ok maybe you do at that. Ohio is one of the worst in the nation, for
example. Houston is now worse than LA.
seriously. how many times do I have to say,"my wife works for the air
district"
they regulate pollution, though not from cars, thats ARB; she's a tiger,
we have an electric weed wacker and chain saw, I am not allowed any
two-stroke bikes, I am buying LED lights for the house, we've looked
into solar panels but can't use them. We have electric buses on the
street and CNG commuter buses, and re-powered fishing boats, we ride
bicycles to work, yadda yadda yadda.
Hey we have a greenhouse gas law nyah nyah nyah!
Look its an experiment. It will work or it won't. I don't want a lead
sled, so I have to figure something else out until OEM EVs are allowed
into the country, or some other technology has a breakthrough. I was
reading yesterday about low-power CO2 catalyzation that would make
liquid fuels more attractive.
Just because you guys don't know anything about ICE motors, don't assume
its a black box. I like things that go boom, and go fast.
Also you are not paying any attention to the most important green spec I
stated: I am more concerned about greenhouse gases than smog. If I do no
worse with smog, and a lot better with greenhouse gases, then I will
have done a good job.
So I challenge you all, given your monthly use of electricity and your
local generation mix, how many pounds of CO2 are you putting into the
atmosphere? It could well be that a high-efficiency genset is better
than your grid power.
cheers
John
Cor van de Water wrote:
Hi John,
Please don't read more ...
Bring it on!
Cor van de Water
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello David,
The genset that was use to transport my EV for only one time, did 22.5 mpg.
They said when the same type of engine is use in a standard weighted vehicle
did 17 mpg.
The total weight of my EV at that time was 7850 lbs with 90 each 300 AH
cobalt batteries, pulling a very streamline genset which make the whole rig
weigh in at about 9000 lbs. Got up to 90 mph at one time.
I think the engine-generator ran at a constant 3600 rpm to run the main
motor directly. So would a engine pollute less if it was tune, time and run
at one speed vs one in a vehicle?
I don't know back at that time if it would today. It had a sticker on the
unit that it pass all DOD regs.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: gensets was charging while driving question
> On 24 Mar 2007 at 17:09, John Fisher wrote:
>
> > Look, as long as it pollutes less than my car, its good.
>
> I agree. Perhaps I'm too skeptical.
>
> Show me the numbers. I won't ask you to hit anything as stratospheric as
> the Prius's PZEV-SULEV. If you can match CA ULEV at all speeds, which the
> 49-state Honda Civic VX met 12 years ago, I'll extend my hearty
> congratulations (for what that's worth ;-).
>
> Heck, I'll give you a virtual pat on the back if you can make Federal Tier
> 1
> passenger car standards (required of 49-state cars from MY1994 to MY1997).
>
> Here's the definition :
>
> http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ld.php#stds
>
> THC = 0.41 g/mi
> NMHC = 0.25 g/mi
> CO = 3.4 g/mi
> NOx = 0.4 g/mi
> PM = 0.08 g/mi
>
> THC = total hydrocarbons
> NMHC = nonmethane hydrocarbons
> CO = carbon monoxide
> NOx = oxides of nitrogen
> PM = particulate matter
>
> Please document your testing methods as equivalent to FTP75 and verify
> your
> compliance.
>
> BTW, Jerry, same goes for you. A public tip o' the hat from me if you can
> demonstrate Tier 1 compliance with your Freedom's genset running, and a
> hearty congratulations if you make CA ULEV. (Sorry, I'm too cheap to
> present medals or prizes. ;-)
>
> > I offered to keep the ICEy stuff off the list ...I'll stick to
> > electrical
> > questions from now on. Lets kill off the genset thread.
>
> Uh-uh, you can't duck out that easily.
>
> This list IS jam-packed with skeptics - that's one of its greatest
> strengths! We'll make you think HARD and hone your ideas. Don't wimp out
> just because a few of us challenged you.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Administrator
>
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Assumptions, assumptions.
I do live in CA and the local utility (PG&E) has a large chunk of renewable
in the electricity mix.
My previous house had 3000 watts PV on the roof (installed by my own two
hands).
Why can't you use it? Same reasons as my current house? (Renting as well as
HOA)
Last week I replaced my fridge with Energy-Star. That will slash about 100
kWh per month off my electricity bill.
Still way too high with 600 kWh per month, half of that being the EV
charging.
In my solar-powered house the 2100 kWh per year generated was more than we
consumed in the house.
If you build a genset, it is not your wife that makes it clean,
it is your engineering.
That is why David asked what your goals are.
Welcome to the EVDL,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Fisher
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 7:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: gensets was charging while driving question
Ok
You guys outside California don't know anything about air pollution.
Ok maybe you do at that. Ohio is one of the worst in the nation, for
example. Houston is now worse than LA.
seriously. how many times do I have to say,"my wife works for the air
district"
they regulate pollution, though not from cars, thats ARB; she's a tiger, we
have an electric weed wacker and chain saw, I am not allowed any two-stroke
bikes, I am buying LED lights for the house, we've looked into solar panels
but can't use them. We have electric buses on the street and CNG commuter
buses, and re-powered fishing boats, we ride bicycles to work, yadda yadda
yadda.
Hey we have a greenhouse gas law nyah nyah nyah!
Look its an experiment. It will work or it won't. I don't want a lead sled,
so I have to figure something else out until OEM EVs are allowed into the
country, or some other technology has a breakthrough. I was reading
yesterday about low-power CO2 catalyzation that would make liquid fuels more
attractive.
Just because you guys don't know anything about ICE motors, don't assume its
a black box. I like things that go boom, and go fast.
Also you are not paying any attention to the most important green spec I
stated: I am more concerned about greenhouse gases than smog. If I do no
worse with smog, and a lot better with greenhouse gases, then I will have
done a good job.
So I challenge you all, given your monthly use of electricity and your local
generation mix, how many pounds of CO2 are you putting into the atmosphere?
It could well be that a high-efficiency genset is better than your grid
power.
cheers
John
Cor van de Water wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> Please don't read more ...
>
> Bring it on!
>
> Cor van de Water
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chip Gribben wrote:
There is no cost to enter the AutoCross and other EVents on Saturday,
however donations are appreciated. Cost to enter the drag strip on
Sunday is $25.00 which is the Mason-Dixon Dragway entry fee.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Um... Chip, I may be wrong, but isn't the $25 the racer's fee? Don't
spectators (and possibly kids?) get in for less?
Thanks for any clarification!
Roy
~~~~~~
Roy LeMeur
_________________________________________________________________
The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian.
http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John, FWIW there are only a handful of people on this list whose posts I
read regardless of subject. You are on the top of that list.
Keep up the posts dude.
> Hello to Joe and All,
>
> Joe Smalley wrote:
>
>>As an engineer, I love the slogan, "we blow things up, so you don't have
>>to." Keep up the good job you are doing by going fast and telling the
>> stories.
>>Lots of people design stuff that should go fast. Your stories are the
>> biggest
>>attraction that has kept me reading the EV list daily over the last
>> eleven
>>years. Thanks, John. You make it worth staying subscribed.
>>
>>
> This was a great way to end my late night Friday, reading the above
> before hitting the sack!
>
> I must confess, lately I've asked myself why I bother to take as much
> time as I do to create the posts I come up with, only to sometimes not
> have a single response on the EVDL. It 'was' making me wonder, like Rod
> said, if there's any interest anymore.
>
> The above did wonders for me, thanks Joe! I guess I'll go ahead and
> finish my post that's almost all done and 'was' destined to the trash
> bin, about the recent Roadster Show, and get it to the EVDL, now that I
> know there's still a few out there that still care.
>
> See Ya......John Wayland
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> You can get a 5kw propane fired genset for about $1000, and it looks
> like that might be easily converted to H2 later, when the storage and
> supply gets cheaper/available. An H2 genset would be perfect, assuming
> that its not feasible to go all the way to an H2 ICE.
Something to consider. A home converter can NOT legally convert a car to
run on propane anymore. This is because without the proper test
equipment, it's very easy to end up with MORE pollution than the car had
when burning gasoline.
So anyone that does propane conversions MUST be licensed and EACH vehicle
conversion must be tested and approved.
Generators don't require any kind of testing, so it's entirely possible
that your propane generator will produce MORE pollution than the typical
gasoline powered car.
>
> I could buy a cheap gas genset and modify the motor, eventually
> replacing it. I am pretty confident that I can get the emissions within
> bounds because its a small displacement motor running at a constant
> speed.
Your confidence is based on what experience? FWIW it's much harder to
pull off than most people think just from reading about it.
> I might have to put a decent carb on it, but thats easy.
If you are using a carb, then it's almost certain that you won't be able
to match the low emmissions of a modern fuel injected vehicle (that's why
none of them come with carbs anymore)
> I could build a genset from scratch - violates my rules.
>
> I could find the Perfect Thing ready-made. I did find a 6.9 litre V8 H2
> genset, but thats a bit big for me ;>) It would look good in a T-bucket
> roadster though.
You do realize that almost all H2 you can buy today comes from
reformulating petroleum products? It's also fairly expensive and can be
difficult to aquire.
> ########
>
> Frank: theres quite a supply of late model MC in junkyards and auctions,
> because the insurers raised the rates to the point where they just write
> them off when they crash. Mostly the motors are too big though, so I am
> more likely to get a dirt bike motor. It does require an e-start, which
> might force me to scooters instead. My DRZ dirt bike is e-start, but
> e-start is still not common.
Dirt bikes (off road vehicles) have NO emmission requirements. Chances
are any dirtbike you find will have fairly high emmissions compared to a
modern car.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 24 Mar 2007 at 19:41, Ralph Merwin wrote:
> Check out this Mini conversion done by an Engineer at Brusa:
Just to be clear, that's not a "real" Mini. The Mini-Evergreen was a modern
replica.
It was extraordinarily light, and designed from the ground up as an EV,
fitted from the factory with a Brusa drive (though I think Axel Krause of
Brusa refitted it with a more powerful drive).
It appears to have been a fine EV. Regrettably, the Mini-Evergreen is no
longer offered. I don't know why, but I suspect that rather few were sold.
German-language page on the vehicle is here :
http://www.solarmobil.net/mini.htm
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 24 Mar 2007 at 20:43, Roland Wiench wrote:
> The genset that was use[d] to transport my EV for only one time, did 22.5 mpg.
> They said when the same type of engine is use[d] in a standard weighted
> vehicle
> [it] did 17 mpg ... So would a engine pollute less if it was tune[d], time[d]
> and
> run at one speed vs one in a vehicle?
That was in the mid-1970s, no? Microprocessor engine control was still in
the future. In those days, it was still possible to gain significant
efficiency in a series hybrid, because engines were easier to optimize when
operated at a fixed speed and load. The improvement was more than enough to
offset the losses from converting from mechanical to electrical energy.
Today ICEs have microprocessors which comunicate with MAP sensors, oxygen
sensors, knock sensors, temperature sensors and all the rest. The computers
control electronic ignition, electronic fuel injection, variable valve
timing, and more. This allows ICE optimization at nearly all speeds and
loads. Thus, fixed speed and load operation no longer yields enough
efficiency improvement to offset the conversion losses of a series hybrid.
This is one more reason I'm also skeptical of the Chevrolet Volt, but that's
a separate matter.
Those with an interest in audio might compare the optimization that's been
performed on the ICE in the last 30 years to that carried out on the phono
cartridge between about 1955 and 1985. It was almost as if the audio
designers suspended the laws of physics (not really of course) in
transcending the limitations of a mechanical device through drastic mass
reduction, materials development, and just plain careful tweaking. Who in
1955 could have expected the kind of phono cartridge performance that was
achieved just 30 years later? Similarly, MEs have cleaned up the automotive
ICE far more than most of us ever would have thought possible in 1977.
But like the phono cartridge in 1983, the ICE now sees a technology waiting
in the wings. It's one which doesn't have the same limitations to
transcend. Instead it has a whole NEW set of limitations to challenge the
engineers. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> seriously. how many times do I have to say,"my wife works for the air
> district"
I'm sorry I'm missing your point. Just because she works at the air
district doesn't make her (or you) an expert on tuning ICEs.
Many of the things you've posted about ICEs make me inclined to believe
that you aren't an expert, but I could be wrong.
> they regulate pollution, though not from cars, thats ARB; she's a tiger,
> we have an electric weed wacker and chain saw, I am not allowed any
> two-stroke bikes, I am buying LED lights for the house, we've looked
> into solar panels but can't use them. We have electric buses on the
> street and CNG commuter buses, and re-powered fishing boats, we ride
> bicycles to work, yadda yadda yadda.
Cool, me too. I've commuted by bicycle more miles than by motor vehicle.
I typically put 5,000 to 10,000 miles a year on my bicycle.
My mower used to be powered by me, but my wife won't use it so I broke
down and bought her an electric one for when I'm out of the country.
>
> Look its an experiment. It will work or it won't.
Absolutely, we are just trying to point out that it isn't as easy as many
people think. If it was easy to build low emmissions gen sets, then
someone would already be doing it.
> Just because you guys don't know anything about ICE motors, don't assume
> its a black box. I like things that go boom, and go fast.
Now see, you are making an unfounded assumption. There are many people on
this list that know a LOT about how ICE motors work.
> Also you are not paying any attention to the most important green spec I
> stated: I am more concerned about greenhouse gases than smog. If I do no
> worse with smog, and a lot better with greenhouse gases, then I will
> have done a good job.
Well, if all you are worried about are greenhouse gases, then use a deisel
engine and run it on veggy oil or biodeisel. Both have zero net C02
production, i.e. the plants that grow the fuel consume at least as much
C02 as the fuel produces.
> So I challenge you all, given your monthly use of electricity and your
> local generation mix, how many pounds of CO2 are you putting into the
> atmosphere? It could well be that a high-efficiency genset is better
> than your grid power.
Highly doubtful. Large scale electricity production is almost always more
efficient than small scale.
Even coal burning power plants produce much less C02 per mile than a
modern ICE, I believe I've seen a figure of around 10%.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes.
Grounding the chassis prevents a shock hazard my making sure the chassis is
connected to safety ground.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 4:34 PM
Subject: Quick PFC20 question
> I just got my shiny new Manzanita Micro PFC20 charger a yesterday!!
>
> I want to get this thing maintaining my Buggy batteries but I have a
> question. On the output side there is an Anderson connector and a
> unused green ground wire. Since my charger case won't be tied to the
> chassis of the buggy (seeing as how its fiberglass) should I connect
> the green wire of the output to frame ground?
>
> Thanx,
> Paul "neon" G.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, we finally built a half-way-decent-looking prototype.
http://www.killacycle.dreamhosters.com/photos/index.php?album=12-volt-racing-battery
This is a 4.6 amp-hr, 240 cranking amp, 12 volt battery that weighs
about 1.5 pounds. It is a 100% drop-in for your 12 volt starting
battery in your race car.
It is 4" long, 3" wide, and 2.5" tall (3" with the terminals.)
We can make them in 120 cranking amp (2.3 A-hr) increments. They get
an inch taller and 12 oz. heavier for each increment.
I think we will be in production in about a month. We haven't set a
price, but they _significantly_ more expensive than your typical
lead-acid battery.
The BMS is not really suitable for EV use, unfortunately. We are
working on a BMS suitable for EVs, but we still have more development
to do. Soon, soon....
Bill Dube'
We'll be running the bike at Firebird Speedway outside of Phoenix
next weekend. Drop by and say hello.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is the correct link.
http://www.killacycle.com/photos/12-volt-racing-battery/
Sorry about the incorrect link in the previous post
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This sounds awesome! Can't wait to see it. Hopefully I can prevent
myself from buying a junkyard motor until its done :-)
Rob
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--- Begin Message ---
I noticed the other day that you can buy a "developer's kit" from
A123 Systems:
http://www.a123systems.com/html/products/buyKit.html
I realize they are a bit pricey ($129 for a 6 cell kit), but has anyone here
put them through their paces?
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
"The hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties,
but the geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
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Found an interesting battery comparison contained below
http://mec.ceveq.qc.ca/assets/files/Preliminary_Technical_Analysis_Final.pdf
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skip> I noticed the other day that you can buy a "developer's kit" from
skip> A123 Systems:
skip> http://www.a123systems.com/html/products/buyKit.html
skip> I realize they are a bit pricey ($129 for a 6 cell kit), but has
skip> anyone here put them through their paces?
Silly me. It appears the KillaCycle gang has obviously had some experience
with them.
Skip
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>now that I know there's still a few out there that still care.
I bet there's plenty more than a few. This list reeks of lurkers
(like me) :-) I love to here the racing stories. I inevitably end
up braggin about your exploits when I get that funny look from folks
I tell I'm building an EV. "Yeah, well there's this crazy dude with
two motors crammed in a Datsun that is going to break into the 11's
this year" :-)
Rob
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The interest actually extends even beyond the EVDL. There are a considerable
percentage of people where I work and in my neighborhood that is kept
informed about EV racing. They are not on the EVDL, or even consider
themselves part
of the EV community, but they follow the action through me and through the
Plasma Boy website. There are lots of WooHoos!! with word from every event.
As
a result, some are becoming interested in doing their own conversions.
It is unfortunate that the feedback is so weak, but, the interest is indeed
very strong and far-reaching. The contributions you are making go way beyond
the face value of racing. It is inspiring people to realize that serious
performance doesn't require gas!
Ken
In a message dated 3/25/2007 6:42:34 AM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>now that I know there's still a few out there that still care.
I bet there's plenty more than a few. This list reeks of lurkers
(like me) :-) I love to here the racing stories. I inevitably end
up braggin about your exploits when I get that funny look from folks
I tell I'm building an EV. "Yeah, well there's this crazy dude with
two motors crammed in a Datsun that is going to break into the 11's
this year" :-)
Rob
************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone.
Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
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Mt. Washington Auto Road is bringing back their Alternative Vehicle Regatta.
See link for info:
http://www.mountwashingtonautoroad.com/index.php?module=StaticContent&func=display&scid=176
I encourage everyone in the northeast to try to make it to this event. It's a
great chance to generate some good EV publicity. For those who've never been,
the Auto Road is 8 miles long and the elevation change is about 4500'. Very
challenging (to say the least) and if you can't regenerate, you better have
good brakes! The summit is above the tree line and offers outstanding views on
clear days. It looks like there will be an exhibition and space for vendors.
I'll keep the List updated as I learn
more.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
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First 1,000 mile report.
Heidi’s new Myers Motors NmG, “Tweety” arrived home just after Thanksgiving
2006.
We have learned a lot from Tweety:
The old adage, “Seeing is believing” is an understatement. We have found
that describing electric vehicles to people is typically a hard sell, however,
if they see it, or especially if they drive it, it is a totally different
story. Everywhere we go Tweety draws a crowd. It takes much longer going to
the
store now because of all the people gathered around asking questions. So far,
not one negative comment from a gawker. This is in stark contrast when trying
to describe Tweety, or any EV, for that matter. Often people will struggle
to keep up with Tweety as they hope to follow along to the destination so they
can find out what it is. They are always drop jaw amazed that it is electric.
Many exclaim they did not know an electric car was possible, much less one
with so much go.
We purchased Tweety in an effort to help support EV marketing in Texas. We
bought the first NmG sold from the first EV dealer in Austin Texas. We have
since learned that it is far more practical than we originally thought. It is
now driven daily. We take turns driving it to work, but, regardless, it is
driven every day. Usually no less than twenty miles per go.
After announcing our purchase of Tweety, last Thanksgiving, we were promptly
flooded with warnings of problems and suggestions how we could have done
better. I did expect many issues and was eager to tackle them. Actually, the
only
issues with the car have been minor quality control issues such as cross
threaded screws and miss-aligned door hinges, etc. We were prepared for much
worse. A tap and new hardware from Myers has taken care of that. Support from
Myers has been excellent. The design and components seem to be quite sound.
It
even has a Zilla! The biggest mechanical issue occurred within the first
week. The drive belt broke while Heidi was going to work. The dealer paid for
the towing and replaced the belt. Heidi retrieved the belt from the street and
noted that it had cracks. The new belt looks quite fresh and has stood up to
some heavy acceleration and a few (actually, quite a few) burnouts. Did I
mention it has a Zilla?
The driving experience is such that we can’t tell it is a three-wheeler. We
have driven it in aggressive traffic, heavy rain and even some ice. We do
realize, however, that it is a three-wheeler. We know not to turn sharply
while
backing up and to be conscious of turning speed. We know better than to try “
drifting” a corner! We really appreciate the heater, CD player, dry cabin,
ample trunk space and its interstate performance. Instead of, “Please go
around, it’s electric”, it is, “Yes, you were just passed by an electric
vehicle”!
Heidi just loves her commutes down IH-35. The expression on motorist’s
faces as she passes them is priceless. For my personal driving experience, I
am
becoming more skilled in straddling pot holes. That is when I get reminded
that it’s a three-wheeler. I have learned that I can straddle a large manhole
cover by just missing it with the inside edge of either front wheel. My other
driving issue is still a mystery to me. I find myself tail-gating really bad
when driving Tweety. While cruising 70 MPH down the freeway I will suddenly
realize that I am about three feet from the bumper of the vehicle in front of
me. Even if it is a tractor-trailer semi! I really have to work on that one!
We are having a lot of fun adding upgrades like an extra cooling fan for it’s
DC/DC converter, replacing the belt guard mounting screws with studs,
installing a keyless entry system. Next on the list are battery equalizers…
Heidi
is researching a trailer so we can take it to car shows beyond its driving
range. In fact, Tweety is in a car show today as this is being written!
We are absolutely having a blast with this car. It is exciting to drive, it
draws attention like we never imagined. Tweety educates the public about the
possibilities EV’s offer like we never imagined. It was a hard purchase to
afford on our budget, but well, very well, worth it!!
Ken & Heidi
************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone.
Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
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John,
I am sure there are heaps of us!
Of the very few posters who I have set my email client to display in a
high-lighted colour... yours come up in RED! And I also find myself
thinking "Oh great! It's a long one!"
Always a great read, both for the story and the knowledge.
Tim Ireland
South Australia.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Wayland
Sent: Saturday, 24 March 2007 6:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ***DHSPAM*** Re: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have
To...2007
Hello to Joe and All,
Joe Smalley wrote:
>As an engineer, I love the slogan, "we blow things up, so you don't
>have to." Keep up the good job you are doing by going fast and telling
>the stories. Lots of people design stuff that should go fast. Your
>stories are the biggest attraction that has kept me reading the EV list
>daily over the last eleven years. Thanks, John. You make it worth
>staying subscribed.
>
>
This was a great way to end my late night Friday, reading the above
before hitting the sack!
I must confess, lately I've asked myself why I bother to take as much
time as I do to create the posts I come up with, only to sometimes not
have a single response on the EVDL. It 'was' making me wonder, like Rod
said, if there's any interest anymore.
The above did wonders for me, thanks Joe! I guess I'll go ahead and
finish my post that's almost all done and 'was' destined to the trash
bin, about the recent Roadster Show, and get it to the EVDL, now that I
know there's still a few out there that still care.
See Ya......John Wayland
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Also, look to RC forums ( www.rcgroups.com, www.rcuniverse.com/forum )
, there are lots and lots of people there having real-life data on
them, charge graphs and durability data and so on.
RC enthusiasts are known to abuse their batteries in the worst
possible ways, so its pretty good data.
-kert
On 3/25/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
skip> I noticed the other day that you can buy a "developer's kit" from
skip> A123 Systems:
skip> http://www.a123systems.com/html/products/buyKit.html
skip> I realize they are a bit pricey ($129 for a 6 cell kit), but has
skip> anyone here put them through their paces?
Silly me. It appears the KillaCycle gang has obviously had some experience
with them.
Skip
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Hi all,
I'm sure this has been asked a hundred times before, but I was hoping
for a quick bit of advice about the best wire gauge for an EV..
The particulars are: 160V 90Ah Lithium battery (≤10C discharge), 800
amp fuse, custom ~1000 amp controller, Warp9 motor. Does it sound
like a job for 2/0 gauge?
-Ian Hooper
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Flat towing doesn't solve the fishtailing problem. In college in the mid
70's, I had two cars I had to move about 200 miles. Couldn't put a hitch on
the heavier car, so had to pull the heavier car (by about 500 pounds) with
the lighter one. Used a bumper mount tow bar, pulled the drive shaft, and
started out. At about 45 mph, the towed car wanted to pass the towing car.
I just slowed down and drove about 40 mph all the way. The national speed
limit was still 55 at that time, so I wasn't too too slow. Wouldn't do it
again, though. Oh, to be young and dumb again. Now when I do something
dumb, I'm told I should have known better. Maybe I can start pleading
senility!
Dave
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Horrifying trailer towing experience
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 14:06:57 -0800
That's why I prefer flat-tow or dolly-tow: most of the weight
and steering/follow-capability is intact when using either a
dolly or flat-tow, as the towed vehicle has all its wheels
on the ground and shocks, springs, etc hold it to the road
as it normally does, only the way it is accelerated has
changed.
As long as you are not towing a 4WD, there is no reason to
use a trailer, unless you already have a trailer but no
dolly or tow hook, OR the towed vehicle can't sit on its own
wheels, or it is better not to tow it at Freeway speeds
(for example a golf cart).
Yes, I know - mounting a tow hookup on the towed vehicle
could mean some mods: I have now two small holes in my EV's
front bumper. But I can tow it anywhere I want by only
borrowing someone's vehicle with hitch...
YMMV,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Perry
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 2:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Horrifying trailer towing experience
60% because when you hit a bump the weight will shift slightly.
One other consideration... don't exceed the rating of your hitch and check
the mounting. Trucks will often have frame mounted hitches, spaced fairly
well across the frame, while a car will often mount to the unibody. In
these
cases, it's sometimes found that the hitch is strong enough, but not
mounted
into enough "meat" on the car body.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: Horrifying trailer towing experience
> Why the 60/40 ratio. I've always just used a little tounge weight. Is
it
> because of the weight shift on hills? Lawrence Rhodes....
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Ian,
Use this formula:
33 * (I/A)^2 * S = log( (Tm - Ta) / (234 + Ta) + 1 )
where:
I=amps
A=area in Circular Mils
S=Time in seconds
Tm=Maximum temperature in Celsius (what the insulation will take)
Ta = Ambient temperature Celsius (starting temperature)
You figure how long you are going to
pull the big amps at most and this sets the
minimum possible wire size. Remember, the current
profile on the motor side is completely different
to the current profile on the battery side.
The above formula is to figure minimum
wire size. You also have to decide what losses
are acceptable for the weight (and money) you
would save in wire. Bigger wire has lower losses,
but it adds weight to the vehicle and cost to the
vehicle. As you go bigger and bigger, the returns
diminish, especially when you consider how
infrequently you flow maximum current. You also
give up some HP with smaller wire, but you must
consider the HP/weight ratio of the drive package
to know if you are winning or losing by adding thicker (or thinner) wire.
Bill Dube'
At 07:49 AM 3/25/2007, you wrote:
Hi all,
I'm sure this has been asked a hundred times before, but I was hoping
for a quick bit of advice about the best wire gauge for an EV..
The particulars are: 160V 90Ah Lithium battery (²10C discharge), 800
amp fuse, custom ~1000 amp controller, Warp9 motor. Does it sound
like a job for 2/0 gauge?
-Ian Hooper
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