EV Digest 6597
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Anyone want to climb Mt. Washington?
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) tom swift early 1900's talk about nickeloxide battery in Tom Swift
And His Electric Runabout
by Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: V28 1962 Bel Air-current draw
by "Mick Abraham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Newbie: General and State Licensing Question
by "childreypa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Big Honking Motor
by "Joe Plumer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Big Honking Motor
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Newbie: General and State Licensing Question
by Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: V28 1962 Bel Air-current draw
by "Reinkens, Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries?
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Better Data Logging Options?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Recommended wire gauge
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Big Honking Motor
by "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Mike's Pinto Project
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: ***DHSPAM*** Re: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Converting a mini classic
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Big Honking Motor
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Better Data Logging Options?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: V28 1962 Bel Air-current draw
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
Bob, it'd be great to see you there. I'm planning to bring my m-cycle
conversion but want to rig-up a quick-and-dirty regen on it. Regular brakes
can/will work as long as you're willing to descend slowly. We were there to
talk about this event last June (my first trip in 5 or 6 years) and it was
refreshing to see that they had paved the entire road.
----- Original Message ----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 1:37:37 PM
Subject: Re: Anyone want to climb Mt. Washington?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 8:07 AM
Subject: Anyone want to climb Mt. Washington?
> Mt. Washington Auto Road is bringing back their Alternative Vehicle
Regatta. See link for info:
>
http://www.mountwashingtonautoroad.com/index.php?module=StaticContent&func=display&scid=176
>
> I encourage everyone in the northeast to try to make it to this event.
It's a great chance to generate some good EV publicity. For those who've
never been, the Auto Road is 8 miles long and the elevation change is about
4500'. Very challenging (to say the least) and if you can't regenerate, you
better have good brakes! The summit is above the tree line and offers
outstanding views on clear days. It looks like there will be an exhibition
and space for vendors. I'll keep the List updated as I learn
> more.
>
> Hi Frank;
Thanks for the link! Sounds like fun! Maybe I'll have the Jetta ready? I
went to the link, Still winter up there! 18 degreez! Hafta hook up SOME kind
of Regen!Shane for it to go to waste! Driving a Prius up Pike's Peek sure
made that obvious. Battery was charged to the teeth LONG before I got down,,
though!
Years ago I came in to, WHY I donnow! the possession of SCADS of those
nice " This Car Climbed Mt. Washington" stickers, about when they started
appearing on Metro North and Amtrak locomotives and cars! In the NYC
commuting area<g>!I'm sure they gave a chuckle to many a commuter?
Seeya
Bob
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
________
> Get your own web address.
> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext97/05tom10.txt
Tom Swift And His Electric Runabout
by Victor Appleton
"Well, Tom," remarked Mr. Sharp, after a pause following the
lad's announcement. "I didn't know you had any ambitions in that
line. Tell us more about the battery. What system do you use;
lead plates and sulphuric acid?"
"Oh, that's out of date long ago," declared the lad.
"Well, I don't know much about electricity," admitted the
aeronaut. "I'll take my chances in an airship or a balloon, but
when it comes to electricity I'm down and out."
"So am I," admitted Mr. Damon. "Bless my gizzard, it's all I
can do to put a new spark plug in my automobile. Where is your
new battery, Tom?"
"Out in my shop, running yet if it hasn't been frightened by
the airship smash," replied the lad, somewhat proudly. "It's an
oxide of nickel battery, with steel and oxide of iron negative
electrodes."
"What solution do you use, Tom?" asked Mr. Swift. "I didn't get
that far in questioning you before the crash came," he added.
"Well I have, in the experimental battery, a solution of
potassium hydrate," replied the lad, "but I think I'm going to
change it, and add some lithium hydrate to it. I think that will
make it stronger."
"Bless my watch chain!" exclaimed Mr. Damon. "It's all Greek to
me. Suppose you let us see it, Tom? I like to see wheels go
'round, but I'm not much of a hand for chemical terms."
"If you're sure you're not hurt by the airship smash, I will,"
declared the lad.
"Oh, we're not hurt a bit," insisted Mr. Sharp. "As I said we
were moving slow, for I knew it was about time to land. Mr. Damon
was steering--"
"Yes I thought I'd try my hand at it, as it seemed so easy,"
interrupted the eccentric man. "But never again--not for mine! I
couldn't see the house, and, before I knew it we were right over
the roof. Then the chimney seemed to stick itself up suddenly in
front of us, and--well, you know the rest. I'm willing to pay for
any damage I caused."
"Oh, not at all!" replied Tom. "It's easy enough to put on a
new plane, or, for that matter, we can operate the Red Cloud
without it. But come on, I'll show you my sample battery."
"Here, take umbrellas!" Mrs. Baggert called after them as they
started toward the shop, for it was still raining.
"We don't mind getting wet," replied the young inventor. "It's
in the interests of science."
"Maybe it is. You don't mind a wetting, but I mind you coming
in and dripping water all over the carpets!" retorted the
housekeeper.
"Bless my overshoes, I'm afraid we have wet the carpets a
trifle now," admitted Mr. Damon ruefully, as he looked down at a
puddle, which had formed where he had been standing.
"That's the reason I want you to take umbrellas this trip,"
insisted Mrs. Baggert.
They complied, and were soon in the shop, where Tom explained
his battery. The small motor was still running and had, as the
lad had said, gone the equivalent of over two hundred miles.
"If a small battery does as well as that, what will a larger
one do?" asked Mr. Damon.
"Much better, I hope," replied the youth. "But Dad doesn't seem
to have much faith in them."
"Well," admitted Mr. Swift, "I must say I am skeptical. Still,
I acknowledge Tom has done some pretty good work along electrical
lines. He helped me with the positive and negative plates on the
submarine, and, maybe--well, we'll wait and see," he concluded.
"If you build a car I hope you give me a ride in it," said Mr.
Damon. "I've ridden fast in the air, and swiftly on top of, and
under, the water. Now I'd like to ride rapidly on top of the
earth. The gasolene auto doesn't go very fast."
"I'll give you a ride that will make your hair stand up!"
prophesied Tom, and the time was to come when he would make good
that prediction.
The little party in the machine shop talked at some length
about Tom's battery. He showed them how it was constructed, and
gave them some of his ideas regarding the new type of auto he
planned to build.
"Well," remarked Mr. Swift at length, "if you want to keep your
brain fresh, Tom, you must get to bed earlier than this. It's
nearly twelve o'clock."
"And I want to get up early !" exclaimed the lad. "I'm going to
start to build a larger battery to-morrow."
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Kirk Reinkens asked about the 1962 Bel Air converted to run on Milwaukee V28
battery packs.
Kirk said: "384 batteries @ 336 volts. I think that means 32 strings of 12
V28s. The article says 3000 amps. So it sounds like that is about 93 amps
per string."
Mick says: I'm running V28's on my 24 volt electric assist bike. Initial
results are promising, but that's a small load in the same range as the tiny
motors that the V28 pack was built for.
Kirk's battery math on the Bel Air looks right to me but raises some
reliability questions mentioned below. Shawn Lawless & Rich Rudman were
involved in the conversion so they should chime in.
The stock V28 packs deliver their power through thin metal strips which
resemble 1/4" "faston" type terminals. 93 amps seems excessive for those
thin strips of metal. The V28 batteries are rated for 3 amp-hours. Under a
93 amp load, each string would be depleted in 100 seconds or less.
Since the Bel Air was converted for promotional reasons, long term viability
and practicality may not have been among the design goals. For example, one
can't imagine unplugging 384 battery packs from the vehicle for recharge on
Milwaukee 1 hour chargers.
I have reliability concerns about connecting the V28 packs in series without
any battery management from one link to the other. It might work fine at
first but cause problems later. Someone on the EVDL recently reported
trouble with DeWalt lithium battery packs connected in series.
Here's a link where some electric bike experimenters are running series V28
packs: http://tinyurl.com/3b4b7w
Note that most of the experiments are recently begun. Reports reflecting
years of experience would be better, because it would take time to make sure
things don't go wrong.
"Wanted: Bold EV experimenter with money for long term smoke testing of
cordless tool battery packs in series."
Without long term data, the safest way to deploy cordless tool batteries is
on a drive system voltage that matches the pack. That would max out at 36
volts if one uses the DeWalt or Bosch lithium packs. It's also least risky
to recharge via removal of the individual packs for placement on the
matching OEM charger. My third suggestion is to have enough tool packs in
parallel so the amp demand per pack doesn't dramatically exceed that of the
cordless tools they were intended for.
Tool battery experimenters who don't have extra money should stay close to
the original parameters for which a particular cordless tool battery was
designed.
I believe the V28 Bel Air had been intended for display at various tool
shows. I would like to see it, but I've never seen a schedule of public
appearances. Did somebody kill that electric car?
Mick Abraham
www.abrahamsolar.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Afternoon everyone,
I'm completely new to this forum and EV's in general. I would like to
post this at the risk of being labled a tree killer on my first post :).
I also read in the online help that ICE discussion is discurraged or
frowned on. I respect this rule, but would like to share my idea and get
ideas. Also, (and please point me in the right direction) I haven't
found any dedicated diy hybrid forums and this list has a lot of great
knowledge. I want to build a hybrid out of my 77 Datsun 280z.
http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?image=http://memimag
e.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/813000-813999/813379_20_full.jpg
Anyone with experience in licensing and registration and state
inspections in Virginia I would especially like to here from. What
hurdles are there going to be and where can I find the regulations? Also
I think its worth mentioning that in my situation, a purely EV is of no
use to me. I really only drive on weekends home from school, about 150
miles and so an EV with a 30-40 mile range would be useless. At home
it's a different matter, but I want something with a longer range than
an EV, even if I do stock up on batteries.
Thanks, Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just realized I didn't add the link.
http://www.automation.siemens.com/ld/bahnen/daten/elfa/ds_1pv5138-4ws24.pdf
For an F-250, I would look at this motor. Considerably lighter.
Sounds like a good candidate for a conversion of something like, oh...
maybe an F-250 ?
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:53 PM
> To: EV Discussion List
> Subject: Big Honking Motor
>
> I was over at a friends house, where he has accumulated LOTS of junk
> over the years.
> He has an electric motor sitting there that is rated at 60HP
> continuous, 500VDC. BIG thing.
> So, anyone want to make an electric bus? He'll sell it really cheap...
> :-)
>
_________________________________________________________________
Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN
Presents today.
http://music.msn.com/presents?icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A07001
_________________________________________________________________
Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN
Presents today.
http://music.msn.com/presents?icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A07001
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From the link, the word "Bahnen" indicates this motor has
intended applications in (light-)rail.
In fact, if you strip the URL from everything after Bahnen
then you will see that this is exactly their solutions area.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Plumer
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 4:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Big Honking Motor
I just realized I didn't add the link.
http://www.automation.siemens.com/ld/bahnen/daten/elfa/ds_1pv5138-4ws24.pdf
>For an F-250, I would look at this motor. Considerably lighter.
>
>
>>
>>
>> Sounds like a good candidate for a conversion of something like, oh...
>> maybe an F-250 ?
>>
>>--
>>Stay Charged!
>>Hump
>>I-5, Blossvale NY
>>
>>
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:53 PM
>> > To: EV Discussion List
>> > Subject: Big Honking Motor
>> >
>> > I was over at a friends house, where he has accumulated LOTS of
>> > junk over the years.
>> > He has an electric motor sitting there that is rated at 60HP
>> > continuous, 500VDC. BIG thing.
>> > So, anyone want to make an electric bus? He'll sell it really cheap...
>> > :-)
>> >
>>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN
>Presents today.
>http://music.msn.com/presents?icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A
>07001
>
_________________________________________________________________
Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN
Presents today.
http://music.msn.com/presents?icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A07001
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Something you should consider is a dual power car. Maybe not a hybrid, but a
car where you can enable either the regular ICE, or the electric engine. So,
your first 40 miles would be electric, then the rest gas. For short trips this
would basically be an EV. But you mention you don't do short trips, but if that
may change, something like this might be more useful, integrating the ICE and
electric drive systems seems hard (to make a hybrid). - Tony
----- Original Message ----
From: childreypa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 3:51:27 PM
Subject: Newbie: General and State Licensing Question
Afternoon everyone,
I'm completely new to this forum and EV's in general. I would like to
post this at the risk of being labled a tree killer on my first post :).
I also read in the online help that ICE discussion is discurraged or
frowned on. I respect this rule, but would like to share my idea and get
ideas. Also, (and please point me in the right direction) I haven't
found any dedicated diy hybrid forums and this list has a lot of great
knowledge. I want to build a hybrid out of my 77 Datsun 280z.
http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?image=http://memimag
e.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/813000-813999/813379_20_full.jpg
Anyone with experience in licensing and registration and state
inspections in Virginia I would especially like to here from. What
hurdles are there going to be and where can I find the regulations? Also
I think its worth mentioning that in my situation, a purely EV is of no
use to me. I really only drive on weekends home from school, about 150
miles and so an EV with a 30-40 mile range would be useless. At home
it's a different matter, but I want something with a longer range than
an EV, even if I do stock up on batteries.
Thanks, Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been using the DeWalt pack for a 36-volt Carbon Fiber bike I
recently built.
http://www.scootercommuter.com/photos/kestrel_gf_side_640.jpg
But I found two things that may be of help to charge the A123 M1s.
In my quest to find a charger I found a kit with detailed
instructions including lots of pics on how to safely disassemble the
DeWalt pack and wire in a harness to charge the batteries with a NiCd
Charger. NiCd chargers work well since they start out at a Constant
Current rate which is what the Lithiums prefer.
Here is the link . . .
http://www.tppacks.com/documents/10-Cell%20a123%20M1%20Battery%
20Construction%20Kit%20Instructions.pdf
If this link doesn't work Google "10-Cell A123 M1 Battery Pack
Construction Kit Instructions"
Now here is some more good news.
I also found a charger, called the Xtrema, that will charge a 10-pack
of A123 M1 from the DeWalt pack. The charger is made specifically for
the M1s and will allow you to select the cell count first so you can
select anywhere from 1 to 10 cells with this charger. Input voltage
is 12-volts. These chargers were designed for the R/C crowd which
uses their car's 12-volt batteries to power their chargers on-site.
http://www.thextrema.com/
I don' mind the inconvenience of charging from a car battery if it
works to charge these cells.
But check out the link. This is probably the best way to go. And at
$189.00 it's not a bad price. You can download the manual first to
see what's involved. There is also USB and RS-232 ports and cables
available so you can monitor the charge on your pc.
I plan to order one and try it out with the 20 cells I have here.
Charge 10 at a time. Ultimately I'd like to have two of these
chargers since the goal was to run my twin 10-cell packs in parallel.
Hopefully this will help.
As far as cells. Jay at GoWheels rigged up a 10-pack for me and since
this set is brand new I'm hoping the Extrema charger will do the trick.
I also think Jay's guy are also in the process of putting a 30-
something volt system together.
Chip Gribben
ScooterWerks
http://www.scooterwerks.com
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
On Mar 25, 2007, at 6:15 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Mick Abraham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: March 25, 2007 11:49:33 AM EST
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
'I noticed the other day that you can buy a "developer's kit" from
A123 Systems:
http://www.a123systems.com/html/products/buyKit.html
I realize they are a bit pricey ($129 for a 6 cell kit)..."
Mick says: I echo Kert Kaido's suggestion to observe what the radio
controlled hobbyists have been doing with these small cells. Much
as with
the EV crowd, these people expect a lot from their batteries. I
learn a lot
from both camps.
Some of the radio guys have been buying the DeWalt lithium ion
cordless
battery packs then cutting them open just to get the 10 A123 cells
inside.
This might be cheaper per cell than the $129 developer kit, but
you'd have
to butcher up a nice pre-assembled package. Instructions on how to
do that
are even posted with pictures.
Mick Abraham
www.abrahamsolar.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Bill, I was guessing it had to due with the tabs.
I understand about being swamped but, CHANGE THE WEBSITE!. Why have an
invitation to nothing? Notify people you are swamped. There are many
things a company can do like start a FAQ with the first 100 emails.
require people to search a forum and the FAQ before they send an email.
Or just post that email is temporarily down due to high volume and to
please call between time1 and time2 on such and such days. etc. Even a
IRC chat can be used anyone can stick up a question, anyone can throw
out an answer...
Luckinly we have the A123 ambassador :-) on this list!
My emails were about 2000 cell priceing and 150 cell priceing. This is
for a BMS module I am designing. I just needed to pick up the phone and
call them but was waiting
till my current battery situation is resolved and I can pull myself away
from work in the middle of the workday to spend an hour on the phone.
It seems Email is easier than answering the phone, but ???
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you Mick!
I've had similar thoughts about the potential problems. I'm also considering a
small AC system. But I'm just thinking right now so, I'll share more when I get
beyond this stage. Mostly, I like the idea of the keeping the loads within the
normal range of use for the tools and see what might be done. The stock "smart"
charges (i assume) are quite enticing.
I too will wait for other to share details from the 1962 Bel Air or refer me to
some information or post I missed.
Kirk
________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Mick Abraham
Sent: Sun 3/25/2007 4:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: V28 1962 Bel Air-current draw
Kirk Reinkens asked about the 1962 Bel Air converted to run on Milwaukee V28
battery packs.
Kirk said: "384 batteries @ 336 volts. I think that means 32 strings of 12
V28s. The article says 3000 amps. So it sounds like that is about 93 amps
per string."
Mick says: I'm running V28's on my 24 volt electric assist bike. Initial
results are promising, but that's a small load in the same range as the tiny
motors that the V28 pack was built for.
Kirk's battery math on the Bel Air looks right to me but raises some
reliability questions mentioned below. Shawn Lawless & Rich Rudman were
involved in the conversion so they should chime in.
The stock V28 packs deliver their power through thin metal strips which
resemble 1/4" "faston" type terminals. 93 amps seems excessive for those
thin strips of metal. The V28 batteries are rated for 3 amp-hours. Under a
93 amp load, each string would be depleted in 100 seconds or less.
Since the Bel Air was converted for promotional reasons, long term viability
and practicality may not have been among the design goals. For example, one
can't imagine unplugging 384 battery packs from the vehicle for recharge on
Milwaukee 1 hour chargers.
I have reliability concerns about connecting the V28 packs in series without
any battery management from one link to the other. It might work fine at
first but cause problems later. Someone on the EVDL recently reported
trouble with DeWalt lithium battery packs connected in series.
Here's a link where some electric bike experimenters are running series V28
packs: http://tinyurl.com/3b4b7w
Note that most of the experiments are recently begun. Reports reflecting
years of experience would be better, because it would take time to make sure
things don't go wrong.
"Wanted: Bold EV experimenter with money for long term smoke testing of
cordless tool battery packs in series."
Without long term data, the safest way to deploy cordless tool batteries is
on a drive system voltage that matches the pack. That would max out at 36
volts if one uses the DeWalt or Bosch lithium packs. It's also least risky
to recharge via removal of the individual packs for placement on the
matching OEM charger. My third suggestion is to have enough tool packs in
parallel so the amp demand per pack doesn't dramatically exceed that of the
cordless tools they were intended for.
Tool battery experimenters who don't have extra money should stay close to
the original parameters for which a particular cordless tool battery was
designed.
I believe the V28 Bel Air had been intended for display at various tool
shows. I would like to see it, but I've never seen a schedule of public
appearances. Did somebody kill that electric car?
Mick Abraham
www.abrahamsolar.com
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C76F52.CED8AC0C"
Subject: RE: V28 1962 Bel Air-current draw
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:59:45 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Thread-Topic: V28 1962 Bel Air-current draw
Thread-Index: AcduOVyMJfSHFQoDRy6rkyY7glDPJQAAWvUgAEWY/Ac=
References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Reinkens, Kirk--
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 20:06:28 -0700
To: [email protected]
From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>Does the killacycle "ultralight racing battery" have an internal BMS?
>Since it appears to be a 2P4S A123 pack?
Didn't see this question first time around.
The answer is "Yes." The prototype in my 4.3 L GMC van has
been working perfectly for over a month.
Bill Dube'
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 23:42:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Better Data Logging Options?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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From: Edward Kellogg
>I'll say this again â You can buy it through amazon.com
>http://www.amazon.com/LabVIEW-8-Student-book-only/dp/0132390256/
>ref=pd_bbs_sr_4/105-1363604-7773233?
>ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174368420&sr=8-4
>
>You do not need to be a student â you just can't use it for any
>professional or commercial work.
Isn't that the book only, Edward? No software?
> And as for hardware (I know this post began as a question about e-
> meters, but), for those without e-meters, you can try this:
> http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/201630
This is digital only -- no ability to measure voltages or currents. Also not
isolated.
--
Lee Hart
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:43:58 -0900
From: Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Recommended wire gauge
To: [email protected]
Message-id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Other places to try are your local telephone and cellular companies. Find a
maintenance tech or instller if you can find points
of contact in the back shop. There are usually good size chunks of large copper
wire left over from power/backup-power system
installs or upgrades :-)
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> Bob Rice wrote:
> You Bet! 2/0 wire seems to be the gold(Copper) standard for EV's
> nowadaze, it is hidiously expensive, like ALL copper wire. Try welding
> shops, places where it is common. Tag sales, I bought a BOX of it years ago
> at a tag sale for 10 bux. They didn't know what it was worth! Just a box of
> ugly heavy wire to them, they were glad to get rid if it.
>
> Happy Hunting
>
> Bob
>
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From: "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Big Honking Motor
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 07:01:25 +0300
To: [email protected]
..or "special applications" like city busses:
http://www.automation.siemens.com/ld/bahnen/html_76/elfa/elfa-01.html
http://www.automation.siemens.com/ld/bahnen/html_76/elfa/elfa-08.html
Osmo
Cor van de Water kirjoitti 26.3.2007 kello 2.42:
>> From the link, the word "Bahnen" indicates this motor has
> intended applications in (light-)rail.
> In fact, if you strip the URL from everything after Bahnen
> then you will see that this is exactly their solutions area.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Joe Plumer
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 4:31 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Big Honking Motor
>
> I just realized I didn't add the link.
>
> http://www.automation.siemens.com/ld/bahnen/daten/elfa/
> ds_1pv5138-4ws24.pdf
>
>
>> For an F-250, I would look at this motor. Considerably lighter.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds like a good candidate for a conversion of something
>>> like, oh...
>>> maybe an F-250 ?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Stay Charged!
>>> Hump
>>> I-5, Blossvale NY
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:53 PM
>>>> To: EV Discussion List
>>>> Subject: Big Honking Motor
>>>>
>>>> I was over at a friends house, where he has accumulated LOTS of
>>>> junk over the years.
>>>> He has an electric motor sitting there that is rated at 60HP
>>>> continuous, 500VDC. BIG thing.
>>>> So, anyone want to make an electric bus? He'll sell it really
>>>> cheap...
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN
>> Presents today.
>> http://music.msn.com/presents?
>> icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A
>> 07001
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN
> Presents today.
> http://music.msn.com/presents?
> icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A07001
>
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Mike's Pinto Project
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 1:58:11 -0400
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> Mike Willmon wrote:
>
> >Pinto is in progress. Have the Z2K in hand, newly released TransWarP9 AND
> >WarP9 on order ala Ryan Bohm and George Hamstra, Ford
> >heavywall 9" housing and 31 spline axles getting ready for the chopper,
> >trying to peg the rear gearing so I can order a Curie 9"
I'm trying to pick a gear ratio for my 912 porsche with 2 warp 9's ,,, the
transaxel spider gears let go , I welded them up and this lasted a few days ,,
now I'm one wheel drive ..Wo now I'm doing a set up like Gone Postal did
using no 60 chain with each motor going to each wheel , keeping the irs it
looks like the 9's toqure is about 1/3 more per volt compared to the 8 so I'm
thinking the gearing might want to be 1/3 higher to , Was thinking of the tango
,, they have 2 9's ,,, what was there best 1/4 mile gearing ?
steve clunn ,,
> >Race Case ready to install and kick some ICE.
> >
>
> Wow, this is soooo exciting to read about! I've seen Mike's work in
> person, so I can guarantee this will be a high quality job.
>
> I'm betting this Pinto project will be quick and fast! I can hardly wait
> to read about Mike's drag racing outings as he toasts classic muscle
> cars. If he can get sponsorship on Alaskan freight up north for White
> Zombie and or other EVs from the lower states, he can count on me
> attending a midnight sun run! Mike's Pinto project is one that all EVers
> should be excited about, because as they say, racing improves the breed.
>
> Way to go, Mike. Please, keep posting about this as often as you can.
>
> See Ya.....John Wayland
>
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Subject: RE: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 00:50:49 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
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> Hi Mike, Thanks for responding. I have noticed over a period of time
> that there does not seem to be a lot of responses to items of this
> nature. I do not really know if people on the List do not really care
> about pressing the envelope of EV performance or not.
Any effort to improve the breed is excellent -- especially if it is
delivered with enthusiasm and colorful commentary.
I'd much rather read about EVs that are pushing the limits and proving
superiority to high performance ICE autos than read much more about
effectively dragging down speeds for all traffic to meet the needs of
governed and/or underpowered NEVs.
Luckily, this is just the internet, and I am blessed by an easily
available DELETE key. Keep posting the EV details -- those who do not
care can delete, those that care can read, and those that are moved can
respond. Consider that the majority likely lies between...
Randii
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ***DHSPAM*** Re: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 1:38:12 -0400
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> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > I must confess, lately I've asked myself why I bother to take as much
> > time as I do to create the posts I come up with,
Well lets see , Ot can't make controllers fast enough to keep up with the
demand you have casued ,,, I'll bet sales will be up on those batteries your
using ,,, Rich is selling enough chargers ? When sombody asks me about how fast
a EV can go ,,, I tell them about your car ,,, and what was the latest time
,along with the fact that its a daily driver ,,, ya I may talk about Rod's car
but some how the street machine , driven to the track and getting close to the
11 's is what we end up taling about ....
> > The above did wonders for me, thanks Joe! I guess I'll go ahead and
> > finish my post that's almost all done and 'was' destined to the trash
how about getting that thing into the 11's so all of us who are driving ev's
and talking to people ( by the 1000's) can say when asked how fast ,,, "well WZ
just did a 11.xx......go see it on the web "
> > bin, about the recent Roadster Show, and get it to the EVDL, now that I
> > know there's still a few out there that still care.
> >
> > See Ya......John Wayland
>
> there aren't a 'few' out there .. there are hordes of us who
> follow the threads from experts and authoritative sources
> like you .. and we are as the good lord made us .. utterly lazy
> and slow and silent and silly to not acknowledge the enormous
> benefits that we get from your emails and from the emails
> of others here
>
> keep up the traffic guys .. the whole world is listening !
>
> ..peekay
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from
> your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Converting a mini classic
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 07:19:11 -0700
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HI-
Sometime over the winter there was a post about an electric race car being
built in the UK. there was a link to an article in "Racecar Engineering":
magazine. The drive system was twin motors set parallel with drive ends
opposite each other. A housing on each end held the motors in place.
Stub shafts similar to the ones I used on "Gone Postal" were located
on each end mid way between the motors. These shafts were not
mechanically connected to each other, but to opposite motors.
With reduction drive between motors and stub shafts along with
series/parallel switching, this unit replaces the motor and transaxle.
Father Time
> [Original Message]
> From: Tom Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 3/25/2007 7:19:55 PM
> Subject: Re: Converting a mini classic
>
> On Sat, 2007-03-24 at 18:59 -0800, Paul G. wrote:
>
> > The *real* Mini? They are adorable little cars. The only warning I have
> > is that the motor and gearbox share oil. That will present a little
> > extra challenge when deICEing it, but that road has been crossed before
> > so I know its quite possible. It sounds like a fun project.
>
> My first solution to this problem was to use another gearbox. This
> presents a more difficult issue, the mini motor sits on top of the
> gearbox, and an electric motor inline with a conventional gearbox just
> won't fit. See http://carrott.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Main/BodyMods for a
> more complete discussion.
>
> I've decided to place the electric motor on top of the original gearbox,
> have a new mainshaft made and drive that with a belt. Richard Bebbington
> has already done this, although he used an automatic gearbox and I plan
> to use a manual.
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/electric.mini/motor/motor_and_box.html
>
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 07:14:47 -0700
To: [email protected]
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Big Honking Motor
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At 04:31 PM 3/25/2007, Joe Plumer wrote:
>I just realized I didn't add the link.
>
>http://www.automation.siemens.com/ld/bahnen/daten/elfa/ds_1pv5138-4ws24.pdf
>
>
>>For an F-250, I would look at this motor. Considerably lighter.
Yeah, but I could get the BIG old thing at my frieds for cheap (or maybe free).
It's actually tempting to just wedge it in an old truck chassis, with
a bunch of floodies and see what happens.
What kind of RPM's are needed at the driveshaft? (Something this big
could probably do direct drive just fine!)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:26:39 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Better Data Logging Options?
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Here are examples of some of the boards I will most likely be deciding between
> when I get going.
> http://www.arduino.cc/ $32
> http://store.makezine.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MKCONTRLLR $150
These are both "naked" boards, with no packaging or protection at all. They
will work, but you will need to add a lot of parts and do all the packaging
youself. Here are a few things they are missing:
- no environmental protection (against water, dust, bugs, etc.)
- no conformal coating (even condensation will kill them)
- not built for automotive temperatures (-40 to +140 deg.F)
- no fuses or overload protection (any shorts or overloads will destroy them)
- no static protection (static electric sparks will wreck them)
- no watchdog timers (if software crashes, it will not automatically recover)
- no isolation (can't measure anything associated with the propulsion pack)
- inadequate drive for real world load (need external drivers for relays, etc.)
- inputs have no scaling for needed voltage ranges
- no filtering to eliminate the effects of noise (and EVs are *very* noisy!)
- you have to write your own programs (i.e. you have to become an expert in
the problem so you know how to solve it).
But, these problems can all be solved! If you are already an experienced
designer and programmer, these hurdles are nothing you don't already know how
to deal with. If you're a beginner, you'll make a lot of mistakes, but learn a
lot in the process. You can save a lot of money over commercial solutions by
investing your time instead.
--
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is doing it."
-- Chinese proverb
--
Lee Hart
To: [email protected]
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Subject: Re: V28 1962 Bel Air-current draw
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 10:37:21 -0400
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Kirk,
Here's what I can tell you about the V28's in the MG car.
They were factory reprogrammed to remove all safety systems. This
allowed them to be pulled well over 100 amps. Their absolute under
perfect temperature conditions is much higher.
Our 2 old Zillas were set at max motor amps, (1800 each or 3600 total)
but we never set the max battery amps that high. We didn't give a darn
about the range but we did make 2 hard runs at the shop and 5 complete
1/4 mile runs at the track without recharging and still had 1/2 charge.
There was no testing or logging as we were not allowed to drive the car.
Both the V28's and the Dewalts have complex battery management systems
that regulate charge AND discharge. I'm not sure about the V28 but I
know that the Dewalt even knows which tool is connected and sets up
accordingly. Drawn over a certain point, (about 40 amps), it will shut
itself down and need to be factory reset.
The MG car is alive and well. It has been making appearances at
various places and times around the country. All it needs is a
recharge, probably a new front motor, if Rudman is driving a some sort
of master disconnect, and it can head back down the track. If you come
to the Power of DC in June chances are you will see an electric drag
race bike with some real good V28's on board.
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 10:59 PM
Subject: RE: V28 1962 Bel Air-current draw
Thank you Mick!
I've had similar thoughts about the potential problems. I'm also
considering a
small AC system. But I'm just thinking right now so, I'll share more
when I get
beyond this stage. Mostly, I like the idea of the keeping the loads
within the
normal range of use for the tools and see what might be done. The stock
"smart"
charges (i assume) are quite enticing.
I too will wait for other to share details from the 1962 Bel Air or
refer me to
some information or post I missed.
Kirk
________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Mick Abraham
Sent: Sun 3/25/2007 4:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: V28 1962 Bel Air-current draw
Kirk Reinkens asked about the 1962 Bel Air converted to run on
Milwaukee V28
battery packs.
Kirk said: "384 batteries @ 336 volts. I think that means 32 strings of
12
V28s. The article says 3000 amps. So it sounds like that is about 93
amps
per string."
Mick says: I'm running V28's on my 24 volt electric assist bike. Initial
results are promising, but that's a small load in the same range as the
tiny
motors that the V28 pack was built for.
Kirk's battery math on the Bel Air looks right to me but raises some
reliability questions mentioned below. Shawn Lawless & Rich Rudman were
involved in the conversion so they should chime in.
The stock V28 packs deliver their power through thin metal strips which
resemble 1/4" "faston" type terminals. 93 amps seems excessive for those
thin strips of metal. The V28 batteries are rated for 3 amp-hours.
Under a
93 amp load, each string would be depleted in 100 seconds or less.
Since the Bel Air was converted for promotional reasons, long term
viability
and practicality may not have been among the design goals. For example,
one
can't imagine unplugging 384 battery packs from the vehicle for
recharge on
Milwaukee 1 hour chargers.
I have reliability concerns about connecting the V28 packs in series
without
any battery management from one link to the other. It might work fine at
first but cause problems later. Someone on the EVDL recently reported
trouble with DeWalt lithium battery packs connected in series.
Here's a link where some electric bike experimenters are running series
V28
packs: http://tinyurl.com/3b4b7w
Note that most of the experiments are recently begun. Reports reflecting
years of experience would be better, because it would take time to make
sure
things don't go wrong.
"Wanted: Bold EV experimenter with money for long term smoke testing of
cordless tool battery packs in series."
Without long term data, the safest way to deploy cordless tool
batteries is
on a drive system voltage that matches the pack. That would max out at
36
volts if one uses the DeWalt or Bosch lithium packs. It's also least
risky
to recharge via removal of the individual packs for placement on the
matching OEM charger. My third suggestion is to have enough tool packs
in
parallel so the amp demand per pack doesn't dramatically exceed that of
the
cordless tools they were intended for.
Tool battery experimenters who don't have extra money should stay close
to
the original parameters for which a particular cordless tool battery was
designed.
I believe the V28 Bel Air had been intended for display at various tool
shows. I would like to see it, but I've never seen a schedule of public
appearances. Did somebody kill that electric car?
Mick Abraham
www.abrahamsolar.com
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C76F52.CED8AC0C"
Subject: RE: V28 1962 Bel Air-current draw
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:59:45 -0700
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From: "Reinkens, Kirk--
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