EV Digest 6598
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: battery balancer idea, taping from middle of pack for 12V power
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Big Honking Motor
by "Martin Klingensmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Power boost concepts
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Fluid Submerged Motor Cooling?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Chevy Volt in Design News Magazine
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Fluid Submerged Motor Cooling?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Fluid Submerged Motor Cooling?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Fluid Submerged Motor Cooling?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: You Write so WE don't have to, WAS Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have
To...2007
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: ***DHSPAM*** Re: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Better Data Logging Options?
by Ian Page-Echols <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Shunt Motor question?
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) how much 2/0 cable
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Do batt "interconnect" cables see same current as "motor" cables?
by "Darin - at - metrompg.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Shunt Motor question?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Shunt Motor question?
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Do batt "interconnect" cables see same current as "motor"
=?UTF-8?B?Y2FibGVzPw==?=
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: charging while driving question
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
by "Patrick Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Converting a mini classic
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Brune)
--- Begin Message ---
From: Tony Hwang
> instead of having a balancer that bleeds strong cells during discharge
Actually, no balancer I know of does it that way. Maybe you are thinking of the
ones that bleed (shunt regulate) the most-charged one during charging?
> how about a balancer that taps the strongest cells in the pack to power
> the 12V system? It would maybe every minute, find the highest voltage
> cells, and switch the connections to those high cells using relays.
This has been done. The Badicheq has a little 12v-to-12v 2amp DC/DC converter
and a set of relays. It selects the highest and lowest batteries, and
transfers charge between them.
My Balancer uses a high-voltage DC/DC that is powered by the pack as a whole,
and a set of relays so it can charge any individual battery. This takes half as
many relays. The DC/DC can also be your main DC/DC for charging the 12v
accessory battery, so it isn't an extra item.
> Maybe divide the pack up into 24V subpacks, and tap into those, it would
> keep each 24V subpack in balance. For a 312V pack, you'd need 14 relays,
> maybe with 30A capability? The cells in each 24V subpack would not be
> balanced during discharge, though.
You'll find many opinions on how many cells to include per module. With
lithium, they generally go right down to the single cell level. With other
types, 6v to 24v per module is common. There is no "right" answer; it's all a
tradeoff between cost and performance.
--
Lee Hart
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--- Begin Message ---
It's fairly useless without an inverter and several hundred volts.
It's also a high RPM motor that has it's peak power above 3000 RPM so you
probably wouldn't really want to run it direct drive.
--
Martin K
On 3/26/07, John G. Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
At 04:31 PM 3/25/2007, Joe Plumer wrote:
>I just realized I didn't add the link.
>
>
http://www.automation.siemens.com/ld/bahnen/daten/elfa/ds_1pv5138-4ws24.pdf
>
>
>>For an F-250, I would look at this motor. Considerably lighter.
Yeah, but I could get the BIG old thing at my frieds for cheap (or maybe
free).
It's actually tempting to just wedge it in an old truck chassis, with
a bunch of floodies and see what happens.
What kind of RPM's are needed at the driveshaft? (Something this big
could probably do direct drive just fine!)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dale,
I have not seen response(s) to this post. I haven't deleted it yet and guess
I'll give you my thoughts.
Two energy sources with two motor controllers and one motor is difficult at
best. It would be better to add a second motor. Or best to combine power
before the motor controller. Then you'd have one motor, one motor controller,
two energy sources and an energy management controller. That way you could use
two different types of batteries or a battery and an ultracapacitor.
As far as charging one energy source (as from solar) while the other is being
used, you would be better off using that supplemental power directly for a part
of propulsion instead of suffering the charge/discharge efficiency of the
energy storage system.
My thoughts,
Jeff
dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The follow is an attempt to clearly some concepts floating around in my head
and if they work it might help the EV community. Hence those many many of you,
who have more knowledge of these things than I, please [nicely] correct my
thoughts when they wander.
Can I hook up a separate power source directly to the motor? If I already have
a battery pack going to a controller and then the controller going to the motor
can I have separate battery pack/controller hooked up to the motor as well? I
assume the answer is yes if the voltage is the same and the total amps are in
an acceptable level for the motor. One concern is energy back flow. If both
controllers are producing power to the motor at the same time could they send
some or all of those amps into the other controller instead? If so can that be
easily prevented? Furthermore, what about engine breaking and regen? Can the
motor [when breaking] allow one controller [provided it is a regen controller]
to provide energy back to the batteries while the other controller does nothing?
Why consider this? The secondary controller can be used when the vehicle needs
a little more power to accelerate from a stop light or merge in traffic, etcÂ…
which allows the primary batteries to avoid some amp draw spikes which will
increase run time and battery life. Further, the secondary can be composed of
different technologies than the primary pack. There has been some interest on
this list about finding ways to splice in other battery technologies [NiCad,
lithium, etc..] and I would like to use ultracapacitors charged by solar. Since
a secondary power source could be charged when not in use.
If this basic idea can be done, my follow up questions will surround the best
way to implement the concept primary how to compute the power [amps per time]
from the capacitors.
Albuquerque, NM
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1000
http://geocities.com/solarcookingman
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw a patent for it the other day and wondering if
it was a possible thing to do?
I have this motor:
http://tinyurl.com/gyt5s
HP 1.54 Voltage 24 DC Amps 4.5 no load
RPM 3,200 Duty intermittent
It is pretty well sealed. I did open it up to see if I
could do air cooling and it is packed really tight.
The best I could get is maybe a couple 5/8" holes up
near the brushes. That wouldn't do much for airflow
though I may give that a try. However I'm wondering if
it is possible to run some fluid through it to
directly cool all of it down? Not the most practical
idea but might be fun to experiment with if it wasn't
going to short out in 3 seconds. Suitable filtering to
get out the brush dust and decent pump to keep some
flow. I could use the aluminum mower deck as a huge
heat sink.
I am still looking for a cheap 24v controller to slow
it down. I have two 12v batterie sand found 12v cuts
far too slow so I need something in between. I'm
interested in building a PWM controller myself with a
few speeds but actually haven't had much luck finding
any decent plans.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.designnews.com/article/CA6413718.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ametek did testing of small (3" diameter, 8" long)
brush motors that ran on 12 and 24V. The inside of
the motor was filled with a dielectric coolant,
similar to transformer oil,
http://www.dsifluids.com/diel_products_page.htm
and a better one for heat transfer,
http://www.dsifluids.com/OptiCool%20Brochure.PDF
We had issues trying to keep the motor sealed without
leaking fluid, especially around the rotor shaft where
it goes through the endbell.
I think there may have been other issues, like the
brush occasionally not making good contact with the
commutator. I'll ask the motor engineer what the
results were.
Rod
--- Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I saw a patent for it the other day and wondering if
> it was a possible thing to do?
>
> I have this motor:
> http://tinyurl.com/gyt5s
> HP 1.54 Voltage 24 DC Amps 4.5 no load
> RPM 3,200 Duty intermittent
>
> It is pretty well sealed. I did open it up to see if
> I
> could do air cooling and it is packed really tight.
> The best I could get is maybe a couple 5/8" holes up
> near the brushes. That wouldn't do much for airflow
> though I may give that a try. However I'm wondering
> if
> it is possible to run some fluid through it to
> directly cool all of it down? Not the most practical
> idea but might be fun to experiment with if it
> wasn't
> going to short out in 3 seconds. Suitable filtering
> to
> get out the brush dust and decent pump to keep some
> flow. I could use the aluminum mower deck as a huge
> heat sink.
>
> I am still looking for a cheap 24v controller to
> slow
> it down. I have two 12v batterie sand found 12v cuts
> far too slow so I need something in between. I'm
> interested in building a PWM controller myself with
> a
> few speeds but actually haven't had much luck
> finding
> any decent plans.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Mark Hastings
> I have this motor:
> http://tinyurl.com/gyt5s
> HP 1.54 Voltage 24 DC Amps 4.5 no load
> RPM 3,200 Duty intermittent
>
> Cooling... The best I could get is maybe a couple 5/8" holes up
> near the brushes. That wouldn't do much for airflow though I may
> give that a try.
Motors are pretty efficient, so even a small amount of air makes a big
difference. The challenge with small holes is that it will take a squirrel-cage
or centrifugal blower to push air through those tight passages (a
propeller-type fan won't work). I've drilled holes in the both end bells of
motors and used an external squirrel cage blower to convert intermittent-duty
motors into continuous duty (but, the bearings and brushes will then become the
weak points).
> However I'm wondering if it is possible to run some fluid through it to
> directly cool all of it down?
The brush and commutator materials have been chosen for air cooling. If you try
to submerge them in a liquid, you'll need to research completely different
materials. It's been done -- oil works pretty well. There are even motors that
have used mercury both for cooling, and because it makes a really great
connection at the commutator!
It's more common for liquid-cooled commutator motors to keep the commutator in
air, and circulate the liquid through passages in the armature. Since the
armature rotates, this means you need some scheme like the crankshaft of an ICE.
--
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it." -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
I wouldn't try it with a commutator motor. I have tested it with induction
motor. Found additional losses from friction in the fluid (pumping action)
were intolerable at moderate and higher speeds. And that one had a pretty
smooth rotor. Sealing the motor will be difficult, shaft seal, O rings on the
end bells and sealant on cable exit, and then you have the whole external
coolant system.
Jeff
Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I saw a patent for it the other day and wondering if
it was a possible thing to do?
I have this motor:
http://tinyurl.com/gyt5s
HP 1.54 Voltage 24 DC Amps 4.5 no load
RPM 3,200 Duty intermittent
It is pretty well sealed. I did open it up to see if I
could do air cooling and it is packed really tight.
The best I could get is maybe a couple 5/8" holes up
near the brushes. That wouldn't do much for airflow
though I may give that a try. However I'm wondering if
it is possible to run some fluid through it to
directly cool all of it down? Not the most practical
idea but might be fun to experiment with if it wasn't
going to short out in 3 seconds. Suitable filtering to
get out the brush dust and decent pump to keep some
flow. I could use the aluminum mower deck as a huge
heat sink.
I am still looking for a cheap 24v controller to slow
it down. I have two 12v batterie sand found 12v cuts
far too slow so I need something in between. I'm
interested in building a PWM controller myself with a
few speeds but actually haven't had much luck finding
any decent plans.
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can see you have a custom bike so you would not want to use a standard
Yellow Dewalt battery pack on this bike, but in general won't leaving the
pack in it's original configuration work? Then you could also use the
Dewalt charger, and you could still use the batteries on your drill. Is
there something about the way the pack comes from Dewalt that limits it from
being used in scooter/ebike type applications as is? It should be easy
enough to construct a connector like the one on the end of the drill to snap
the battery into.
damon
From: Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 20:24:50 -0500
I've been using the DeWalt pack for a 36-volt Carbon Fiber bike I recently
built.
http://www.scootercommuter.com/photos/kestrel_gf_side_640.jpg
But I found two things that may be of help to charge the A123 M1s.
In my quest to find a charger I found a kit with detailed instructions
including lots of pics on how to safely disassemble the DeWalt pack and
wire in a harness to charge the batteries with a NiCd Charger. NiCd
chargers work well since they start out at a Constant Current rate which
is what the Lithiums prefer.
Here is the link . . .
http://www.tppacks.com/documents/10-Cell%20a123%20M1%20Battery%
20Construction%20Kit%20Instructions.pdf
If this link doesn't work Google "10-Cell A123 M1 Battery Pack
Construction Kit Instructions"
Now here is some more good news.
I also found a charger, called the Xtrema, that will charge a 10-pack of
A123 M1 from the DeWalt pack. The charger is made specifically for the M1s
and will allow you to select the cell count first so you can select
anywhere from 1 to 10 cells with this charger. Input voltage is 12-volts.
These chargers were designed for the R/C crowd which uses their car's
12-volt batteries to power their chargers on-site.
http://www.thextrema.com/
I don' mind the inconvenience of charging from a car battery if it works
to charge these cells.
But check out the link. This is probably the best way to go. And at
$189.00 it's not a bad price. You can download the manual first to see
what's involved. There is also USB and RS-232 ports and cables available
so you can monitor the charge on your pc.
I plan to order one and try it out with the 20 cells I have here. Charge
10 at a time. Ultimately I'd like to have two of these chargers since the
goal was to run my twin 10-cell packs in parallel.
Hopefully this will help.
As far as cells. Jay at GoWheels rigged up a 10-pack for me and since this
set is brand new I'm hoping the Extrema charger will do the trick.
I also think Jay's guy are also in the process of putting a 30- something
volt system together.
Chip Gribben
ScooterWerks
http://www.scooterwerks.com
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
On Mar 25, 2007, at 6:15 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Mick Abraham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: March 25, 2007 11:49:33 AM EST
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
'I noticed the other day that you can buy a "developer's kit" from
A123 Systems:
http://www.a123systems.com/html/products/buyKit.html
I realize they are a bit pricey ($129 for a 6 cell kit)..."
Mick says: I echo Kert Kaido's suggestion to observe what the radio
controlled hobbyists have been doing with these small cells. Much as with
the EV crowd, these people expect a lot from their batteries. I learn a
lot
from both camps.
Some of the radio guys have been buying the DeWalt lithium ion cordless
battery packs then cutting them open just to get the 10 A123 cells
inside.
This might be cheaper per cell than the $129 developer kit, but you'd
have
to butcher up a nice pre-assembled package. Instructions on how to do
that
are even posted with pictures.
Mick Abraham
www.abrahamsolar.com
_________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John, your posts are one of the reasons I started building my conversion, and
the most inspiring for continuing to work on it. Keep them coming!
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Boy, do I feel guilty!!
I sometimes don't even respond to John's private messages to me. I figure if I
have nothing of significance to add then he's probably too busy to just hear me
babble on.....
If someone were to anonymously ask anyone I know if they knew John Wayland, the
responcse would probably be something like. "Yeah he's Tim's good friend, the
one with the hot electric car, White Zombie. Here let me show you some
video.... then lets check out that screaming electric motorcycle he's always
talking about..."
I even have a huge pile of Hawker 26ah batteries in my garage.... I wonder why
that is. ;-)
Don't go anywhere John. I used to be here just for your posts too. However,
lately I've found myself searching for Husted's as well.
Oh one more thing... John, I think you should consider doing some freelance
writing for the car magazines.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of John Wayland
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 3:55 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: ***DHSPAM*** Re: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have
> To...2007
>
> Hello to Joe and All,
>
> Joe Smalley wrote:
>
>>As an engineer, I love the slogan, "we blow things up, so you don't have
>>to." Keep up the good job you are doing by going fast and telling the
> stories.
>>Lots of people design stuff that should go fast. Your stories are the
> biggest
>>attraction that has kept me reading the EV list daily over the last
> eleven
>>years. Thanks, John. You make it worth staying subscribed.
>>
>>
> This was a great way to end my late night Friday, reading the above
> before hitting the sack!
>
> I must confess, lately I've asked myself why I bother to take as much
> time as I do to create the posts I come up with, only to sometimes not
> have a single response on the EVDL. It 'was' making me wonder, like Rod
> said, if there's any interest anymore.
>
> The above did wonders for me, thanks Joe! I guess I'll go ahead and
> finish my post that's almost all done and 'was' destined to the trash
> bin, about the recent Roadster Show, and get it to the EVDL, now that I
> know there's still a few out there that still care.
>
> See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, then I guess what I might do is to sacrifice a few arduinos to
get things set up. Those are all good feedback. Maybe I can get
around all those cons, but those might be good enough reasons for
getting something prebuilt.
On Mar 26, 2007, at 7:26 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Here are examples of some of the boards I will most likely be
deciding between
when I get going.
http://www.arduino.cc/ $32
http://store.makezine.com/ProductDetails.asp?
ProductCode=MKCONTRLLR $150
These are both "naked" boards, with no packaging or protection at
all. They will work, but you will need to add a lot of parts and do
all the packaging youself. Here are a few things they are missing:
- no environmental protection (against water, dust, bugs, etc.)
- no conformal coating (even condensation will kill them)
- not built for automotive temperatures (-40 to +140 deg.F)
- no fuses or overload protection (any shorts or overloads will
destroy them)
- no static protection (static electric sparks will wreck them)
- no watchdog timers (if software crashes, it will not
automatically recover)
- no isolation (can't measure anything associated with the
propulsion pack)
- inadequate drive for real world load (need external drivers for
relays, etc.)
- inputs have no scaling for needed voltage ranges
- no filtering to eliminate the effects of noise (and EVs are
*very* noisy!)
- you have to write your own programs (i.e. you have to become an
expert in
the problem so you know how to solve it).
But, these problems can all be solved! If you are already an
experienced designer and programmer, these hurdles are nothing you
don't already know how to deal with. If you're a beginner, you'll
make a lot of mistakes, but learn a lot in the process. You can
save a lot of money over commercial solutions by investing your
time instead.
--
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who
is doing it."
-- Chinese proverb
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is for those who have played with Shunt motors.
I bought a JH-29. No Nay sayers please. It was cheap
and with in my budget to get started in EV's.
The wiring per Surplus center describes the wires as
follows:
+ to (B) terminal with a jumper to (A) terminal
- to (E) terminal with nothing going to (D) terminal.
E-volks has + to (B) terminal - to (E) terminal.
Nothing to (A) or (D) terminals.
I do not have a controller, or batteries yet. I have
an old 6/12 volt 4 amp DC car charger that puts out
11.99 Volts DC. Verified by multimeter.
So in my excitement to see if this thing would spin I
hooked up the motor to the charger to at least see it
spin. No load just sitting on the garage floor. I had
a
switch hooked up to charger to turn it on and off.
I tried both of the above mentioned hook ups but got
no response from the motor/generator.
So my question is this.
1)Is my problem too low a current with the 4 amp
charger?
2)Or could be the (D) terminal has to be hooked up to
the (E) terminal so there is a current flowing on the
field?
The hook up of (A) terminal with nothing on (D)
terminal seems rather strange as most devices I have
worked with require both + and - to operate.
And not hooking up the (A) and (D) means no voltage or
current to the field coil. Which I was under the
impression it needs in order to operate.
I am an Electronic tech but Shunt motors are beyond my
knowledge and would appreciate any input as to what if
anything I may be doing wrong.
Converting a Honda CRX to a low voltage commuter for a
10 mile Round trip.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How much battery welding cable does the average 26 battery car take?
25 ft or 50 ft?
I already have the main runs from front of the car to back, (25 ft), but
have to remake 26 inter battery connectors.
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Let's say someone was contemplating hooking up a temporary 36v string of
6v floodies to move a car a short distance (a few blocks) over mostly
level ground at low speed, and didn't yet have a proper set of battery &
motor cables made up.
Let's say he does however have in his junk pile enough mismatched cables
of various gauges and lengths to connect everything together.
So the question is: do the cables in the middle of a string see less
juice than the ones on the ends (the motor cables)? IE, is there any
logic in putting the "less robust" cables in the middle of the string?
Pardon the basic electrical theory questions... :)
Darin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My shunt motor takes 20-something amps at 12 volts to turn.
Also, if I hook it up to the battery charger, it just clicks off the charger
(tries to draw too much current, so it shuts down). I have to hook it up to a
12 Volt battery also.
It's fun to hook up the armature to the battery, and the field to the charger,
and by switching voltage and current on the charger the motor speed will change.
----- Original Message ----
From: Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 12:41:21 PM
Subject: Shunt Motor question?
This is for those who have played with Shunt motors.
I bought a JH-29. No Nay sayers please. It was cheap
and with in my budget to get started in EV's.
The wiring per Surplus center describes the wires as
follows:
+ to (B) terminal with a jumper to (A) terminal
- to (E) terminal with nothing going to (D) terminal.
E-volks has + to (B) terminal - to (E) terminal.
Nothing to (A) or (D) terminals.
I do not have a controller, or batteries yet. I have
an old 6/12 volt 4 amp DC car charger that puts out
11.99 Volts DC. Verified by multimeter.
So in my excitement to see if this thing would spin I
hooked up the motor to the charger to at least see it
spin. No load just sitting on the garage floor. I had
a
switch hooked up to charger to turn it on and off.
I tried both of the above mentioned hook ups but got
no response from the motor/generator.
So my question is this.
1)Is my problem too low a current with the 4 amp
charger?
2)Or could be the (D) terminal has to be hooked up to
the (E) terminal so there is a current flowing on the
field?
The hook up of (A) terminal with nothing on (D)
terminal seems rather strange as most devices I have
worked with require both + and - to operate.
And not hooking up the (A) and (D) means no voltage or
current to the field coil. Which I was under the
impression it needs in order to operate.
I am an Electronic tech but Shunt motors are beyond my
knowledge and would appreciate any input as to what if
anything I may be doing wrong.
Converting a Honda CRX to a low voltage commuter for a
10 mile Round trip.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Hey Bruce
First off sorry I didn't respond earlier but I've yet
to see one of these units.
As to your issue trying to run it. First, 4 amps
probably isn't gonna run it.
Knowing absolutely nothing about this motor I don't
have much to offer.
I'm wondering if using E-volts diagram on a 12 volt
battery would do it or maybe you need to jump the
other two wires to complete the circit.
Sorry I can't help much, just never seen one 8^(
Anyway best of luck, just didn't want you feeling no
one cared, LMAO ;-)
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is for those who have played with Shunt motors.
>
> I bought a JH-29. No Nay sayers please. It was cheap
> and with in my budget to get started in EV's.
>
> The wiring per Surplus center describes the wires as
> follows:
>
> + to (B) terminal with a jumper to (A) terminal
> - to (E) terminal with nothing going to (D)
> terminal.
>
> E-volks has + to (B) terminal - to (E) terminal.
> Nothing to (A) or (D) terminals.
>
> I do not have a controller, or batteries yet. I have
> an old 6/12 volt 4 amp DC car charger that puts out
> 11.99 Volts DC. Verified by multimeter.
>
> So in my excitement to see if this thing would spin
> I
> hooked up the motor to the charger to at least see
> it
> spin. No load just sitting on the garage floor. I
> had
> a
> switch hooked up to charger to turn it on and off.
>
> I tried both of the above mentioned hook ups but got
> no response from the motor/generator.
>
> So my question is this.
> 1)Is my problem too low a current with the 4 amp
> charger?
> 2)Or could be the (D) terminal has to be hooked up
> to
> the (E) terminal so there is a current flowing on
> the
> field?
>
> The hook up of (A) terminal with nothing on (D)
> terminal seems rather strange as most devices I have
> worked with require both + and - to operate.
> And not hooking up the (A) and (D) means no voltage
> or
> current to the field coil. Which I was under the
> impression it needs in order to operate.
>
> I am an Electronic tech but Shunt motors are beyond
> my
> knowledge and would appreciate any input as to what
> if
> anything I may be doing wrong.
>
> Converting a Honda CRX to a low voltage commuter for
> a
> 10 mile Round trip.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Sorry, but in your case the current will be the same at all points in the
circuit. Double or triple the "less robust" cables.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Darin - at - metrompg.com
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 12:15 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Do batt "interconnect" cables see same current as "motor" cables?
>
> Let's say someone was contemplating hooking up a temporary 36v string of
> 6v floodies to move a car a short distance (a few blocks) over mostly
> level ground at low speed, and didn't yet have a proper set of battery &
> motor cables made up.
>
> Let's say he does however have in his junk pile enough mismatched cables
> of various gauges and lengths to connect everything together.
>
> So the question is: do the cables in the middle of a string see less
> juice than the ones on the ends (the motor cables)? IE, is there any
> logic in putting the "less robust" cables in the middle of the string?
>
> Pardon the basic electrical theory questions... :)
>
> Darin
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Lots of answers and challenges...
not much time today.
Somebody should run some numbers on greenhouse gases per KWh per region. I know the data is out there at the PIRGS or
state agencies. Skip the EPA they are still putting "greenhouse" back in the official dictionary.
I haven't found anyone yet who has actually built a clean small engine for a genset, though one engine builder thinks
using FI and a CAT would probably do. If it can be done, its attractive for my spec to keep weight down. Maybe it could
also be used to get regen.
I haven't researched it, so common sense may be wrong, but I suspect that very little bio-fuel is carbon-neutral. If you
are taking waste products and burning them, like kitchen grease, or corn waste, it seems to me you are taking
sequestered CO2 from the bio-mass and putting it into the atmosphere. Doing so might still be better than petro-fuel,
but it doesn't sound carbon neutral to me. However I am just extrapolating and its OT anyway.
I'll note again, I am just building on paper. I may decide an ultra-lightweight is just not do-able in my budget. Then
we'll just ride the bicycles and wait for an EV Smart car.
JF
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list,
I spoke with a sales rep from a123 and he was unable to give me a
price break on 10,000 cells. It is a better choice to go with a Sanyo or
Panasonic 18650 or prismatic cell. Much more cost effective and would
provide same capacity. the drawback is the 15A max draw per cell.
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:07:08 +0000
I can see you have a custom bike so you would not want to use a standard
Yellow Dewalt battery pack on this bike, but in general won't leaving the
pack in it's original configuration work? Then you could also use the
Dewalt charger, and you could still use the batteries on your drill. Is
there something about the way the pack comes from Dewalt that limits it
from being used in scooter/ebike type applications as is? It should be
easy enough to construct a connector like the one on the end of the drill
to snap the battery into.
damon
From: Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 20:24:50 -0500
I've been using the DeWalt pack for a 36-volt Carbon Fiber bike I
recently built.
http://www.scootercommuter.com/photos/kestrel_gf_side_640.jpg
But I found two things that may be of help to charge the A123 M1s.
In my quest to find a charger I found a kit with detailed instructions
including lots of pics on how to safely disassemble the DeWalt pack and
wire in a harness to charge the batteries with a NiCd Charger. NiCd
chargers work well since they start out at a Constant Current rate which
is what the Lithiums prefer.
Here is the link . . .
http://www.tppacks.com/documents/10-Cell%20a123%20M1%20Battery%
20Construction%20Kit%20Instructions.pdf
If this link doesn't work Google "10-Cell A123 M1 Battery Pack
Construction Kit Instructions"
Now here is some more good news.
I also found a charger, called the Xtrema, that will charge a 10-pack of
A123 M1 from the DeWalt pack. The charger is made specifically for the
M1s and will allow you to select the cell count first so you can select
anywhere from 1 to 10 cells with this charger. Input voltage is 12-volts.
These chargers were designed for the R/C crowd which uses their car's
12-volt batteries to power their chargers on-site.
http://www.thextrema.com/
I don' mind the inconvenience of charging from a car battery if it works
to charge these cells.
But check out the link. This is probably the best way to go. And at
$189.00 it's not a bad price. You can download the manual first to see
what's involved. There is also USB and RS-232 ports and cables available
so you can monitor the charge on your pc.
I plan to order one and try it out with the 20 cells I have here. Charge
10 at a time. Ultimately I'd like to have two of these chargers since the
goal was to run my twin 10-cell packs in parallel.
Hopefully this will help.
As far as cells. Jay at GoWheels rigged up a 10-pack for me and since
this set is brand new I'm hoping the Extrema charger will do the trick.
I also think Jay's guy are also in the process of putting a 30- something
volt system together.
Chip Gribben
ScooterWerks
http://www.scooterwerks.com
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
On Mar 25, 2007, at 6:15 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Mick Abraham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: March 25, 2007 11:49:33 AM EST
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
'I noticed the other day that you can buy a "developer's kit" from
A123 Systems:
http://www.a123systems.com/html/products/buyKit.html
I realize they are a bit pricey ($129 for a 6 cell kit)..."
Mick says: I echo Kert Kaido's suggestion to observe what the radio
controlled hobbyists have been doing with these small cells. Much as
with
the EV crowd, these people expect a lot from their batteries. I learn a
lot
from both camps.
Some of the radio guys have been buying the DeWalt lithium ion cordless
battery packs then cutting them open just to get the 10 A123 cells
inside.
This might be cheaper per cell than the $129 developer kit, but you'd
have
to butcher up a nice pre-assembled package. Instructions on how to do
that
are even posted with pictures.
Mick Abraham
www.abrahamsolar.com
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Jean-Michel Mistrot wrote:
> This guy is selling a shell with parts..
Thanks for the tip. Doesn't look too bad, but pricier than I'm hoping
for due to the "parts" including trannies and a built up engine. I'll
have to hold out for another.
> P.S. We should start a Vancouver EV chapter eh?
There is one, <http://www.veva.ca>, or were you suggesting that its time
for another? ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
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Hi,
I've been mostly lurking for many years on the EVDL, but living close to John
I've always done what I could to try and help when he is racing.... At the
moment though I feel pretty bad about not making it to the last race, as my job
lately has been to do data acquisition. If I was there we'd probably have data
to confirm the motor voltage. Anyways...
I wanted to say that John's racing and stories have always been very
interesting and an inspiration to me. The first car I had was an Escort with
flooded batteries, and for some this is fine... But when I looked at Blue
Meanie... Well the Escort just doesn't hold a candle to that standard (for
that matter not even a matchstick ;-) ). So when I had a chance to pick up my
current vehicle, a Del Sol, I jumped.
And further John's stories have inspired me to pick up racing. This last
Sunday I participated in our local SCCA Solo II autocross. I have never done
autocross before, but everyone I met there was supportive and interested in the
car. I think there were a few that didn't know what to make of it though.
I made 4 runs (with no chance for charging between runs). My best time was
57.xxx plus there are a few cones that have some time marks on them. The
fellow in front of me was running a new Civic Si and I believe he was around
49.xxx, so I wasn't too far off the pace.
I'm running a Curtis 1231 controller, so I'm pretty power limited. In addition
I ran the whole course in 3rd gear as I don't have a clutch. I think the
Curtis controller may have been more of limiting factor than not having a
clutch. Unfortunately I have no idea what the currents or speeds were like.
For some reason I never had a chance to actually look at any of the guages
while driving ;-).
So John, let's get that motor fixed, and maybe some different gears in the rear
end, and let's go racing! I'm sure you'll have lots more stories to write.
Regards,
Chris Brune
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I am actually really glad I spoke up on this subject as it had the effect of
> bringing some new EV faces out of lurk mode. I hope I get to meet some of
> you in person one of these days.
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 10:46 AM
> Subject: RE: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
>
>
> > Roderick Wilde wrote:
> >
> >> I have noticed over a period of time that there does
> >> not seem to be a lot of responses to items of this
> >> nature. I do not really know if people on the List
> >> do not really care about pressing the envelope of EV
> >> performance or not.
> >
> > I don't think there is any shortage of people who follow and appreciate
> > the racing reports, it just didn't seem useful for each and everyone of
> > us to chime in with yet another pat on the back after the first couple
> > such responses.
> >
> >> For people born elsewhere please speak up on your
> >> opinions of EV performance.
> >
> > (Born in the US, but have lived in Canada for most of my life.)
> >
> > With 3 young kids now, I haven't made it to a NEDRA event for far too
> > long; I *rely* on the racing updates posted to the EVDL to keep up with
> > what's going on. Keep 'em coming!
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Roger.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/733 - Release Date: 3/25/2007
> > 11:07 AM
> >
> >
>
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