EV Digest 6600
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Alternator to charge question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Mike's Pinto Project
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: [EV] Re: EV Funding.
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Motor as Generator question
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Hybrid question
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Making PV panels
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Making PV panels
by "Martin Klingensmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Hybrid question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Electric Imp featured in Kokam product info
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: gensets was charging while driving question
by John Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
by John Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Do batt "interconnect" cables see same current as "motor" cables?
by "Darin - at - metrompg.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: charging while driving question
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Hybrid question
by Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) KillaCycle Update
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) More EV Media Coverage
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Mike's Pinto Project
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Hybrid question
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: More EV Media Coverage
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Mike's Pinto Project
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: More EV Media Coverage
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Hybrid question
by "James Allgood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Making PV panels
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Making PV panels
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: charging while driving question
by "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Hybrid question
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Phoenix motorcars featured on Kokam site (was: Electric Imp featured in
Kokam product info)
by "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
by Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Paul,
The unit that is in my EV can either charge a 12 volt battery and charge the
main battery pack, only when the main pack is disconnected from the
controller.
This unit is call a alternator-inverter that can has a adjustable output of
13.5 to 16 volts at 145 amps when its use as a 12 volt alternator.
It has a a external inverter unit made by the Dynomote Company that uses 110
VDC from the alternator and changes it to 120 VAC 60 HZ with a 7kw output.
This is a very large unit, normally use as shipboard AC power that I got
back in 1977. Today these units a about 1/2 the size.
The battery has two safety contactors that connected to the main contactor
and controller. The alternator-inverter has a AC contactor that is connected
to a PFC-50B battery charger. If I so desire can connect the 120 VAC power
to the on board charger by switching a three position transfer switch that
is either in Auto-Off-Manual.
In the auto position, a micro switch in the accelerator detects the off
position, it will turn on the AC contactor to the on-board charger, which I
pre-select to a ampere I want. There is a AC frequency control relay made
by the Square D company that will only turn on the AC contactor if the 60 HZ
sine wave is at 60 hz.
You can also modified a standard alternator to provide 110 VDC, which is the
maximum of a 60 volt per phase of a 3 phase alternator. The alternator
regulator is first switch in and connected as standard. The alternator has
to get up to speed which is about 1000 to 1500 rpm to excited it, then using
a four pole switch, you disconnect the battery from the alternator and
connect the alternator to the 110 VDC load.
The switch also must turn off the regulator circuit which is the R wire to
the regulator and also the 12 volt negative to the -F.
There are some small units in the 1.5Kw range you can get from some auto
parts store to convert a alternator. There are many sites on the WEB on how
to do this.
The problem with this type of alternator modifications, you must run the
motor or engine rpm up to about 3500 rpm to have a peak voltage of 110 VDC.
With a alternator-inverter unit, you can have a lower motor rpm for a 110
VAC output.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "childreypa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 6:42 PM
Subject: Alternator to charge question
> So I have a question? If I want to charge a battery pack with an
> alternator running on a drive motor, what voltage does this have to be
> done at? Like, a single 12v battery is charged at 14.4 volts correct? So
> what would a string equaling say 144v need? I read about a way to change
> the voltage regulator on an automotive alternator to make this many
> volts, and a lot of amps. Provided that this could be done, what would
> be involved in getting the current produced to charge the batteries?
> What electronics would be needed in between the alternator and
> batteries? Thanks a lot.
> Paul
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Mike
Well I could see if Rudman would let me send up your
bling'ed out motors for a little Madman playing.
I bet he could pump 360 volts and stall it for ya if
you'd like 8^o Second thought I could send them up
before I go through them 8^P Hey Madman, Mike here
wants data! you still got that loadtester and more
volts than Zues?
You "still" needing that data Mike?
LMAO!
Just a thought ;^)
Cya
Jim
--- MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That too needs to be qualified a bit more too. I
> would really like to know stall torque at zero RPM
> and maybe a curve that extends down to the 0 to 500
> RPM Range. If I look at the curves for the WarP8
> and WarP9 (because I have both in front of me, and
> they are done at the same voltage of 72V) I see
> that they only go down to 2000 + RPM.
>
> At the same current of 325 Amps, the 8" makes 42
> ft-lbs at 3250 RPM and the 9" makes 70 ft-lb at 2100
> RPM. What I really want to know though, is the
> torque produced by each size motor at the same RPM,
> at say the critical launch RPMs between 0 and (I
> have no idea) 300 - 500 rpm? These are the numbers
> I need to do calculations on initial acceleration
> for say, 60 ft times and 1/8th mile times. What
> little acceleration you get from 1/8th mile to 1/4
> mile can be fairly accurately estimated with a
> straight line approximation and/or more accurately
> fit to a simple curve.
>
> .
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Monday, March 26, 2007 2:48 pm
> Subject: Re: Mike's Pinto Project
> To: [email protected]
>
> > On Mar 25, 2007, at 9:58 PM,
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm trying to pick a gear ratio for my 912
> porsche with 2 warp
> > 9's
> > > ,,, the transaxel spider gears let go , I welded
> them up and
> > this
> > > lasted a few days ,, now I'm one wheel drive
> ..Wo now I'm doing
> > a set
> > > up like Gone Postal did using no 60 chain with
> each motor
> > going to
> > > each wheel , keeping the irs it looks like the
> 9's toqure is
> > about
> > > 1/3 more per volt compared to the 8 so I'm
> thinking the gearing
> > might
> > > want to be 1/3 higher to , Was thinking of the
> tango ,, they
> > have 2
> > > 9's ,,, what was there best 1/4 mile gearing ?
> >
> > Uh, volts don't make torque - amps do! I've seen
> some different
> > charts
> > for the 9 inch motors but the one I have on my
> hard drive
> > indicates
> > that the FB1 9 ADC makes about 25% more torque per
> amp. The ADC 8
> > inch
> > (and Prestolite MTC) charts I have show 64 ft/lb.
> at 400 amps,
> > while my
> > FB1 ADC chart shows 80 ft/lb.
> >
> > HTH,
> > Paul "neon" G.
> >
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 06:23:33PM -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
> Wow, good luck! Though is $11k enough to build a prototype? I guess if you
> are after an affordable electric car, it has to be.
>
target is local, city-car, so I'll be pushing for a 72volt conversion
as a prototype...
the proyect is also labeled 'recycle and eviroment' so a target is also
to recycle old cheap cars...
--
Eduardo K. | Roses are #FF0000
http://www.carfun.cl | Violets are #0000FF
http://ev.nn.cl | All my base Are belong to you
|
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So... is it fair to conclude that the most effective way to regen at higher
voltages is to custom wind an alternator to get the output voltage high
enough to charge a traction pack? (BTW, my question about direct battery
connection was driven by the fact that higher voltage PV panels will be
clamped-down to battery voltage when directly connected to batteries. I was
hoping a DC generator might work the same.) Or is there an off-the-shelf
solution?
The most 'off-the-shelf' solution - and they are generally pretty polished -
is an AC drive of some kind (brushless DC or AC induction). Separately
excited and permanent magent brushed motors work as well. You need to get a
regen-capable controller for any one of those. Generally, most AC
controllers (induction or BLDC) will offer regen. If you are custom winding
an alternator to be a powerful generator and coupling that to a brushed DC
motor and controller, you might be better off spending the extra money (and
less weight) on an AC system, IMHO.
-Dale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all one of my friends is planning on buying a hybrid and he seems to be
stuck between three choices.
The nissan altima hybrid
The toyota prius
and the honda civic hybrid
He just like anyone else wants a vehicle that has enough power to keep up
with traffic and gets good gas mileage and it must be a comfortable ride. I
was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts?
_________________________________________________________________
http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!399
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is a bit off-topic, but some of you may have worked on solar raycers, so
I'll ask.
I bought some surplus PV cells, and would like to build a PV panel that
conforms to the car's body. What I envision is soldering flat metal strips to
the cells to interconnect them, laying them on a glass panel, and encapsulating
them with something that is clear, waterproof, and UV resistant. But I'm having
problems.
- The cells are amazingly difficult to solder to. What type of solder
and flux is needed?
- What do you use to encapsulate the cells?
- Are there any "tricks of the trade" that are needed to ensure that
they don't break or quickly turn into junk?
--
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it." -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
I found this page: <http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_solar_repair.html>
It is about repairing cells but it says to use 2% silver bearing solder (it
melts at a lower temp)
I'd use a solder station or soldering iron and have it turned down to the
point where the solder just flows. Good luck, I know a guy here who is
trying to put a panel together and his telekinesis breaks the cells when he
thinks too hard.
--
Martin K
On 3/26/07, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This is a bit off-topic, but some of you may have worked on solar raycers,
so I'll ask.
I bought some surplus PV cells, and would like to build a PV panel that
conforms to the car's body. What I envision is soldering flat metal strips
to the cells to interconnect them, laying them on a glass panel, and
encapsulating them with something that is clear, waterproof, and UV
resistant. But I'm having problems.
- The cells are amazingly difficult to solder to. What type of solder
and flux is needed?
- What do you use to encapsulate the cells?
- Are there any "tricks of the trade" that are needed to ensure that
they don't break or quickly turn into junk?
--
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it." -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know two Prius owners and both are very happy and routinely get over 50 mpg.
If I recall the Pris is a little larger and gets better mileage than the civic.
via Treo
David Hrivnak
-----Original Message-----
From: "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subj: Hybrid question
Date: Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:04 pm
Size: 506 bytes
To: [email protected]
Hi all one of my friends is planning on buying a hybrid and he seems to be
stuck between three choices.
The nissan altima hybrid
The toyota prius
and the honda civic hybrid
He just like anyone else wants a vehicle that has enough power to keep up
with traffic and gets good gas mileage and it must be a comfortable ride. I
was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts?
_________________________________________________________________
http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!399
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was surprised to see it featured in this:
http://press.team-orion.com/press/avionics/kokam_quality.pdf
http://www.proev.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
You do realize that almost all H2 you can buy today comes from
reformulating petroleum products? It's also fairly expensive and can be
difficult to aquire.
yup 'tis true, but the majority of our electricity also comes from
petro, with slivers of nuke and renewables. H2 IS expensive but easy to
acquire. One can also buy a commercial electrolysis machine, but that is
probably too expensive and complex for me at this time, and maybe
inefficient anyway.
They have an H2 station in La and/or the Bay Area, so some few folks
could use it from the pump. We don't have one yet.
Dirt bikes (off road vehicles) have NO emmission requirements.
quite true of used ones, but they also have very light and very
efficient motors with lots of available parts. I am hearing some good
things about stationary motors, so I its possible I could find something
optimized off-the-shelf.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
very pretty conversion.
Whats your range recommendation? I have a friend who is talking about a
3-wheel recumbent for a 35 mile roundtrip. He would want to pedal but
use a lot of E-power, say 80% battery 20% human. We'd be using the
Dewalts in their original packs with the original chargers and two hub
motors. The trip is down 700 feet vertical and return, and he is light
and in good shape for an old guy.
thanks
Chip
Chip Gribben wrote:
I've been using the DeWalt pack for a 36-volt Carbon Fiber bike I
recently built.
http://www.scootercommuter.com/photos/kestrel_gf_side_640.jpg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Phil Marino wrote:
I may be wrong, but my impression from his post was that he wasn't
going to use a controller at all - just hook the batteries and the motor
all in series. If that's the plam, then all the cables will see the
same current.
There will also be a controller in the mix.
- Darin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> It's true that carbon or petroleum energy sources go into the production
of
> almost any alternative energy. Even commercial hydropower may have some
> petroleum input, even if it's embedded in the manufacture of the
equipment,
> or the use of fueled vehicles or engines by the producers (I don't know
that
> this is the case but I wouldn't be surprised). But California and Canada
folks
> are probably safe in declaring their hydropower closer to carbon-neutral
than
> any biofuel.
I was rather surprised by the amount of carbon generated, even by utilities
that get most of their power from hydro. EWEB (a local utility) published
their output, compared to PGE, another utility available locally. According
to their figures, they produce about 10% of the greenhouse gas output of
PGE, per kWh.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why not the Camry hybrid? That's a REALLY nice car, almost Lexus like (ES350).
I'd pick the Prius (first) or Civic (second) out of the choices below, though.
----- Original Message ----
From: Tim Gamber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 7:02:49 PM
Subject: Hybrid question
Hi all one of my friends is planning on buying a hybrid and he seems to be
stuck between three choices.
The nissan altima hybrid
The toyota prius
and the honda civic hybrid
He just like anyone else wants a vehicle that has enough power to keep up
with traffic and gets good gas mileage and it must be a comfortable ride. I
was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts?
_________________________________________________________________
http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!399
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Phew! We are super busy!
The KillaCycle Las Vegas video is now over 50,000 views! Hard to
believe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dRpAZci9m0
We have the bike all ready to go for the race in Phoenix (Chandler,
actually.) We (hopefully) will show up on Friday after noon, March
30th for the Test and Tune at Firebird Speedway. We have been invited
to attend the All Harley Drag Racing Association (AHDRA) event and
are planning to stay all weekend for it.
We have built the new battery pack with 110 more A123 systems cells
in it, a new BMS, heaters and a three zone temperature controller to
hold the pack at the ideal temperature of 75 C. We also installed the
contactors for series/parallel switching of the motors, and re-geared
for that set-up.
A film crew doing a series called "Full Throttle Green" for the HDTV
"VOOM" channel on Dish TV was following us around all day today as we
were getting the bike ready to go.
You can see a couple of pictures of them filming us in the garage here:
http://www.killacycle.com/photos/ahdra-race-march-07/
We'll post more pictures as events unfold.
We're going to put the bike on the dyno at TK Motorsports tomorrow
to see what it really puts out. That should be fun.
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thought I'd share a short 2 1/2 minute video on my conversion that aired on the
local NBC station this past Friday. Very positive, and they even got <most> of
the facts right! Overall, goodness...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfmBoCK55As
Mike Harvey
Harvey Coachworks and EV
(877) 841-9730
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not so sure about that :-O How would you like you're babies sent off to be
used as a dummy load? Oh I forgot you send them to
Wayland anyway, so thats about the same thing ;-) I'm assuming they don't call
Rich the Madman for nuthin'.
I'd just be happy with the manufacturer numbers, if'n they had 'em.
Doh!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jim Husted
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 4:33 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Mike's Pinto Project
>
>
> Hey Mike
>
> Well I could see if Rudman would let me send up your
> bling'ed out motors for a little Madman playing.
> I bet he could pump 360 volts and stall it for ya if
> you'd like 8^o Second thought I could send them up
> before I go through them 8^P Hey Madman, Mike here
> wants data! you still got that loadtester and more
> volts than Zues?
>
> You "still" needing that data Mike?
> LMAO!
>
> Just a thought ;^)
>
> Cya
> Jim
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I haven't seen the Altima but my parents have two ICE Altimas and they are
nicely built nice looking and roomier than the Prius or civic. But if you look
at fuel economy, you are certainly paying for the added pickup. Best all-around
for both performance and fuel economy looks like the Civic based on the numbers
I could gather. Granted, the numbers came from various sources I could whip up
quickly but cant be too far off to tell the story. Most of the numbers below
are from Car and Driver...
2007 Nissan Altima Hybrid
Curb weight: 3564 lb.
Zero to 60 mph: 7.4 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 20.7 sec
Fuel Economy (city/hwy): 36/42 mpg.
2004-2007 Toyota Prius Hybrid
Curb Weight 2932 lb.
Zero to 60 mph: 12.7 sec.
Zero to 100 mph: 39.6 sec.
Fuel Economy (city/hwy): 60/51 mpg.
2007 Honda Civic Hybrid
Curb Weight 2875 lbs.
Zero to 60 mph: 7.99
Zero to 100 mph: N/A (0-90 in 18.17 secs)
Fuel Economy (city/hwy): 48/47 mpg.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: Hybrid question
>I know two Prius owners and both are very happy and routinely get over 50 mpg.
> If I recall the Pris is a little larger and gets better mileage than the
>civic.
>
>
> via Treo
> David Hrivnak
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subj: Hybrid question
> Date: Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:04 pm
> Size: 506 bytes
> To: [email protected]
>
> Hi all one of my friends is planning on buying a hybrid and he seems to be
> stuck between three choices.
>
> The nissan altima hybrid
> The toyota prius
> and the honda civic hybrid
>
> He just like anyone else wants a vehicle that has enough power to keep up
> with traffic and gets good gas mileage and it must be a comfortable ride. I
> was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts?
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!399
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It will be very interesting to hear how these projects go. Which brand of
hub motor are you using? Is the motor mounted in these pix? (It looks like
it may be driving off the front cog???)
I look forward to your Dewalt attempts. W/o any pedaling, I found it
necessary to carry about 2 lbs of lead per mile of range. I never did get my
'bent converted because the hub motors were too wide (not to mention heavy).
It also would have required grinding the frame on my bike (to fit the
motor)... so the motors went into DFs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Fisher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
> very pretty conversion.
>
> Whats your range recommendation? I have a friend who is talking about a
> 3-wheel recumbent for a 35 mile roundtrip. He would want to pedal but
> use a lot of E-power, say 80% battery 20% human. We'd be using the
> Dewalts in their original packs with the original chargers and two hub
> motors. The trip is down 700 feet vertical and return, and he is light
> and in good shape for an old guy.
>
> thanks
> Chip
>
> Chip Gribben wrote:
> > I've been using the DeWalt pack for a 36-volt Carbon Fiber bike I
> > recently built.
> >
> > http://www.scootercommuter.com/photos/kestrel_gf_side_640.jpg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Way to go Mike! That's a great piece of PR. Hey, they even mentioned drag
racing electrics in Hagerstown at the end. What more could an amp head ask
for. Keep up the great work.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 7:43 PM
Subject: More EV Media Coverage
Thought I'd share a short 2 1/2 minute video on my conversion that aired
on the local NBC station this past Friday. Very positive, and they even
got <most> of the facts right! Overall, goodness...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfmBoCK55As
Mike Harvey
Harvey Coachworks and EV
(877) 841-9730
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/733 - Release Date: 3/25/2007
11:07 AM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Mike
--- Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not so sure about that :-O How would you like
> you're babies sent off to be used as a dummy load?
Man I knew you was all talk 8^P
Be a good cause, get some good real life data. Help
the next guy kinda thing 08^)
Besides I've come to the conclusion that if it's not
some madman blowing them up, it's some guy in Alaska
in a Pinto, LMAO!
Anyway just an idea I had.
BTW you better hope you never have charger problems
now, the way you bad mouthed 'ol Rich there 8^o
Least I was loving and respectful in reference 8^)
Just trying to help.
Jim Husted.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree with Rod. Great job. You really got the message across.
Bill Dube'
At 08:44 PM 3/26/2007, you wrote:
Way to go Mike! That's a great piece of PR. Hey, they even mentioned
drag racing electrics in Hagerstown at the end. What more could an
amp head ask for. Keep up the great work.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 7:43 PM
Subject: More EV Media Coverage
Thought I'd share a short 2 1/2 minute video on my conversion that
aired on the local NBC station this past Friday. Very positive, and
they even got <most> of the facts right! Overall, goodness...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfmBoCK55As
Mike Harvey
Harvey Coachworks and EV
(877) 841-9730
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/733 - Release Date:
3/25/2007 11:07 AM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a Civic and it was a tough descision, but here are the +/- of both of
them.
Prius
Hatchback is so useful.
Looks like puke on wheels.
Centralized instrument cluster takes getting used to.
Bluetooth integration.
It is more expensive and there was a waiting list.
If the battery pack goes out you are dead in the water.
Only has an automatic transmission.
It is a Toyota.
Civic
Looks like a real car
Instruments are where they are supposed to be.
No learning curve.
If the battery pack dies, it still drives.
Back seat does not fold down.
Smaller size (wheelbase) is better for parking downtown.
Manual transmission so you can have better contol over RPMs and economy.
Price was better.
It is a Honda.
Four years since I bought the Civic and no complaints. There was a rattle in
the A pillar but they fixed it. I only use it to drive up the hill to the
dog park and back, up to 24% grade for 5 miles, and I average 38 mpg. I
drove to Salt Lake City from San Francisco and averaged 55 mpg.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: Hybrid question
I haven't seen the Altima but my parents have two ICE Altimas and they are
nicely built nice looking and roomier than the Prius or civic. But if you
look at fuel economy, you are certainly paying for the added pickup. Best
all-around for both performance and fuel economy looks like the Civic based
on the numbers I could gather. Granted, the numbers came from various
sources I could whip up quickly but cant be too far off to tell the story.
Most of the numbers below are from Car and Driver...
2007 Nissan Altima Hybrid
Curb weight: 3564 lb.
Zero to 60 mph: 7.4 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 20.7 sec
Fuel Economy (city/hwy): 36/42 mpg.
2004-2007 Toyota Prius Hybrid
Curb Weight 2932 lb.
Zero to 60 mph: 12.7 sec.
Zero to 100 mph: 39.6 sec.
Fuel Economy (city/hwy): 60/51 mpg.
2007 Honda Civic Hybrid
Curb Weight 2875 lbs.
Zero to 60 mph: 7.99
Zero to 100 mph: N/A (0-90 in 18.17 secs)
Fuel Economy (city/hwy): 48/47 mpg.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: Hybrid question
I know two Prius owners and both are very happy and routinely get over 50
mpg. If I recall the Pris is a little larger and gets better mileage than
the civic.
via Treo
David Hrivnak
-----Original Message-----
From: "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subj: Hybrid question
Date: Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:04 pm
Size: 506 bytes
To: [email protected]
Hi all one of my friends is planning on buying a hybrid and he seems to
be
stuck between three choices.
The nissan altima hybrid
The toyota prius
and the honda civic hybrid
He just like anyone else wants a vehicle that has enough power to keep up
with traffic and gets good gas mileage and it must be a comfortable ride.
I
was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts?
_________________________________________________________________
http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!399
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
There have been several individuals offering cells on their websites and
Ebay.
IIRC, the trick is to have a pre-tinned copper foil strip as interconnect
(sometimes two strips, dependent on how the cell's charge-collecting metal
pattern is layed out)
then lay the interconnect strip on the cell where it should connect and
brush a soldering iron over this strip
to melt the solder and make contact to the metal deposit.
Too long heating will affect the cell, as the dotering will migrate, tin may
start reacting to the semiconductor and the cell in general will
deteriorate, sometimes even break from mechanical stress.
Breaking a cell does not make it unusable, current will flow just as good as
long as the metal deposit on top still interconnects with all parts, or it
is repaired with thin copper wire. It is mainly an optical blemish.
For a source (and reference to the flat tinned copper strips for solar
cells) see:
http://www.siliconsolar.com/commercial-solar-cells.php
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 7:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Making PV panels
This is a bit off-topic, but some of you may have worked on solar raycers,
so I'll ask.
I bought some surplus PV cells, and would like to build a PV panel that
conforms to the car's body. What I envision is soldering flat metal strips
to the cells to interconnect them, laying them on a glass panel, and
encapsulating them with something that is clear, waterproof, and UV
resistant. But I'm having problems.
- The cells are amazingly difficult to solder to. What type of solder
and flux is needed?
- What do you use to encapsulate the cells?
- Are there any "tricks of the trade" that are needed to ensure that
they don't break or quickly turn into junk?
--
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it." -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Please note that this is the way to build up panels *from the front to the
back*
as the glass is the protective front layer with the cells behind it and the
pottant poured over it, with a plastic foil covering it from the back.
In commercial panel making, the pottant is the hard part, both the
application and the mix.
Early panels had simple clear silicone and it turned brown quickly in the
heat.
Also, to avoid any corrosion, the cells are surrounded by pottant and the
only way to do that without bubbles is to do it under vacuum....
Maybe the simplest way to avoid all this is to leave the air gap between
solar cell and glass un-filled by first applying a little around the edges
of the cell, so if it is the wrong formula and it turns brown, the cells
still deliver output. Only make sure no moisture gets trapped inside, or the
cell will degrade or even fog up...
Success!
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 7:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Making PV panels
This is a bit off-topic, but some of you may have worked on solar raycers,
so I'll ask.
I bought some surplus PV cells, and would like to build a PV panel that
conforms to the car's body. What I envision is soldering flat metal strips
to the cells to interconnect them, laying them on a glass panel, and
encapsulating them with something that is clear, waterproof, and UV
resistant. But I'm having problems.
- The cells are amazingly difficult to solder to. What type of solder
and flux is needed?
- What do you use to encapsulate the cells?
- Are there any "tricks of the trade" that are needed to ensure that
they don't break or quickly turn into junk?
--
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it." -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think electricity is only part of your greenhouse footprint, all
the products (and maybe services?), food etc you buy and use must be
included also.
terveisin, Osmo
Humphrey, Timothy H Ctr AFRL/IFEB kirjoitti 26.3.2007 kello 22.27:
And you asked earlier about "my" greenhouse footprint... zero-
percent, my
electricity is 50% hydro and 50% wind.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James,
Your quoted Prius 0 to 60 time is the Classic (2001-2003) time.
The 2004 - 2007 Prius does 0-60 in 10 sec.
See:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=43877
http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-specs.htm
BTW,
"puke on wheels"?
Apparently it is a matter of taste how you classify this car,
as I (and many others) absolutely love it's styling.
Now take the Navigator or any other coffin on wheels, that's
a whole nother story...
Hope you enjoy your Hybrid just as much as my wife enjoys ours
(my vehicle of choice is the EV)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of James Allgood
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 8:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hybrid question
I have a Civic and it was a tough descision, but here are the +/- of both of
them.
Prius
Hatchback is so useful.
Looks like puke on wheels.
Centralized instrument cluster takes getting used to.
Bluetooth integration.
It is more expensive and there was a waiting list.
If the battery pack goes out you are dead in the water.
Only has an automatic transmission.
It is a Toyota.
Civic
Looks like a real car
Instruments are where they are supposed to be.
No learning curve.
If the battery pack dies, it still drives.
Back seat does not fold down.
Smaller size (wheelbase) is better for parking downtown.
Manual transmission so you can have better contol over RPMs and economy.
Price was better.
It is a Honda.
Four years since I bought the Civic and no complaints. There was a rattle in
the A pillar but they fixed it. I only use it to drive up the hill to the
dog park and back, up to 24% grade for 5 miles, and I average 38 mpg. I
drove to Salt Lake City from San Francisco and averaged 55 mpg.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: Hybrid question
>I haven't seen the Altima but my parents have two ICE Altimas and they are
>nicely built nice looking and roomier than the Prius or civic. But if you
>look at fuel economy, you are certainly paying for the added pickup. Best
>all-around for both performance and fuel economy looks like the Civic based
>on the numbers I could gather. Granted, the numbers came from various
>sources I could whip up quickly but cant be too far off to tell the story.
>Most of the numbers below are from Car and Driver...
>
> 2007 Nissan Altima Hybrid
> Curb weight: 3564 lb.
> Zero to 60 mph: 7.4 sec
> Zero to 100 mph: 20.7 sec
> Fuel Economy (city/hwy): 36/42 mpg.
>
> 2004-2007 Toyota Prius Hybrid
> Curb Weight 2932 lb.
> Zero to 60 mph: 12.7 sec.
> Zero to 100 mph: 39.6 sec.
> Fuel Economy (city/hwy): 60/51 mpg.
>
> 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid
> Curb Weight 2875 lbs.
> Zero to 60 mph: 7.99
> Zero to 100 mph: N/A (0-90 in 18.17 secs)
> Fuel Economy (city/hwy): 48/47 mpg.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 10:24 PM
> Subject: Re: Hybrid question
>
>
>>I know two Prius owners and both are very happy and routinely get over 50
>>mpg. If I recall the Pris is a little larger and gets better mileage than
>>the civic.
>>
>>
>> via Treo
>> David Hrivnak
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> From: "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Subj: Hybrid question
>> Date: Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:04 pm
>> Size: 506 bytes
>> To: [email protected]
>>
>> Hi all one of my friends is planning on buying a hybrid and he seems to
>> be
>> stuck between three choices.
>>
>> The nissan altima hybrid
>> The toyota prius
>> and the honda civic hybrid
>>
>> He just like anyone else wants a vehicle that has enough power to keep up
>> with traffic and gets good gas mileage and it must be a comfortable ride.
>> I
>> was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts?
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!399
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
...and I was surprised to see Phoenix motorcars mentioned on the
Kokam site. They claim the car "is powered by batteries from
Altairnano/Kokam". As far as I know Phoenix uses only Altairnano´s. I
´ve seen the same news article elsewhere, but no Kokam mentioned.
Is this some news service´s or Kokam´s PR-people´s mistake, or
intentionally misleading?
terveisin, Osmo
http://www.kokam.com/custom/notice_view.php?
page=1&I_idx=6&sch=&key=&no=4
Ryan Stotts kirjoitti 27.3.2007 kello 5.39:
I was surprised to see it featured in this:
http://press.team-orion.com/press/avionics/kokam_quality.pdf
http://www.proev.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone know what sort of price these Sanyo or Panasonic 18650s are in
EV quantities (e.g a few thousand)?
And/or recommend any good suppliers for them?
On 27/03/2007, at 3:16 AM, Patrick Andrews wrote:
list,
I spoke with a sales rep from a123 and he was unable to give
me a price break on 10,000 cells. It is a better choice to go with
a Sanyo or Panasonic 18650 or prismatic cell. Much more cost
effective and would provide same capacity. the drawback is the 15A
max draw per cell.
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:07:08 +0000
I can see you have a custom bike so you would not want to use a
standard Yellow Dewalt battery pack on this bike, but in general
won't leaving the pack in it's original configuration work? Then
you could also use the Dewalt charger, and you could still use the
batteries on your drill. Is there something about the way the
pack comes from Dewalt that limits it from being used in scooter/
ebike type applications as is? It should be easy enough to
construct a connector like the one on the end of the drill to snap
the battery into.
damon
From: Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 20:24:50 -0500
I've been using the DeWalt pack for a 36-volt Carbon Fiber bike
I recently built.
http://www.scootercommuter.com/photos/kestrel_gf_side_640.jpg
But I found two things that may be of help to charge the A123 M1s.
In my quest to find a charger I found a kit with detailed
instructions including lots of pics on how to safely disassemble
the DeWalt pack and wire in a harness to charge the batteries
with a NiCd Charger. NiCd chargers work well since they start
out at a Constant Current rate which is what the Lithiums prefer.
Here is the link . . .
http://www.tppacks.com/documents/10-Cell%20a123%20M1%20Battery%
20Construction%20Kit%20Instructions.pdf
If this link doesn't work Google "10-Cell A123 M1 Battery Pack
Construction Kit Instructions"
Now here is some more good news.
I also found a charger, called the Xtrema, that will charge a 10-
pack of A123 M1 from the DeWalt pack. The charger is made
specifically for the M1s and will allow you to select the cell
count first so you can select anywhere from 1 to 10 cells with
this charger. Input voltage is 12-volts. These chargers were
designed for the R/C crowd which uses their car's 12-volt
batteries to power their chargers on-site.
http://www.thextrema.com/
I don' mind the inconvenience of charging from a car battery if
it works to charge these cells.
But check out the link. This is probably the best way to go. And
at $189.00 it's not a bad price. You can download the manual
first to see what's involved. There is also USB and RS-232 ports
and cables available so you can monitor the charge on your pc.
I plan to order one and try it out with the 20 cells I have
here. Charge 10 at a time. Ultimately I'd like to have two of
these chargers since the goal was to run my twin 10-cell packs
in parallel.
Hopefully this will help.
As far as cells. Jay at GoWheels rigged up a 10-pack for me and
since this set is brand new I'm hoping the Extrema charger will
do the trick.
I also think Jay's guy are also in the process of putting a 30-
something volt system together.
Chip Gribben
ScooterWerks
http://www.scooterwerks.com
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
On Mar 25, 2007, at 6:15 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Mick Abraham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: March 25, 2007 11:49:33 AM EST
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems
batteries?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
'I noticed the other day that you can buy a "developer's kit" from
A123 Systems:
http://www.a123systems.com/html/products/buyKit.html
I realize they are a bit pricey ($129 for a 6 cell kit)..."
Mick says: I echo Kert Kaido's suggestion to observe what the radio
controlled hobbyists have been doing with these small cells.
Much as with
the EV crowd, these people expect a lot from their batteries. I
learn a lot
from both camps.
Some of the radio guys have been buying the DeWalt lithium ion
cordless
battery packs then cutting them open just to get the 10 A123
cells inside.
This might be cheaper per cell than the $129 developer kit, but
you'd have
to butcher up a nice pre-assembled package. Instructions on how
to do that
are even posted with pictures.
Mick Abraham
www.abrahamsolar.com
_________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
