EV Digest 6606
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Stan Ovshinsky
by "Paul Peavyhouse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Cheap EV Alternatives
by "childreypa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Quick PFC20 question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Hybrid question - OT
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Squirreling through the boneyard
by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: KillaCycle on the Dyno
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Quick PFC20 question
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Hybrid Delivery Vans
by Daniel Eyk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Squirreling through the boneyard
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) A123 M1 18650 sized battery coming out
by Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Quick PFC20 question
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: charging while driving question
by John Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Quick PFC20 question
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
FYI, Ovonic patent dates are disclosed here:
http://www.ovonic.com/PDFs/ovonic-materials/ovonic-fetcenko_2007-wolsky-seminar.pdf
Pv
On 1/15/07, GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well then we should be able to find the first patents and figure the
expiry date under his name.
On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 3:48 pm, Roger Stockton wrote:
> GWMobile wrote:
>
>> Got the quote below off another list. Someone with access to
>> a pc please check this guys name in free patentsonline.com
>> and lets see if we can get the date of the earliest nimh patent.
>> He apparently is in california. Anyone from the list know him?
>> Wonder what he thinks of chevron not letting anyone build car
>> size nimh batteries.
>>
>> Stan Ovshinsky, father of the NiMH battery: (circa 2005, Quoted in the
>> > >Orange County Weekly)
>
> Stan Ovshinshky (sp?), is deceased. He and his wife were the
> founders/owners of Ovonics, which was sold to GM/Chevron and is now
> known as Cobasys.
>
> Ovonics was enforcing/defending its large-format NiMH patents even
> before the sale.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey All,
>Paul, what country/state are you in? there may be EVers locally to you
that
>can help.
As an answer to James. I live in Richmond Virginia, but go to school at
VMI (Lexington). I would be interested in knowing some local EVers. Im a
Junior Mech. Eng. Major so I do have a lot of access to resources.
Unfortunately Im pretty shabby on the EE stuff. Im in a basic level EE
class for my ME degree requirements and have learned a lot. Enough to
follow most of what has come up with the EV. I have future plans to
convert my recently restored 208z to electric but its really a money
issue.
>If you are at a university there should be resources available
>(mechanical engineering departments) there to make some changes to a
motor
>to modify the speed/torque behaviour.
How do I go about doing this? I guess I just need experience, any good
tutorials or how to's out there that you know of?
I like the idea of finding salvageable parts. The forklift idea sounded
great. Unfortunatley, Im not familiar with them. How high voltage do
they make forklifts? Like 144? My 280z is pretty petty, but I don't
drive it daily. A conversion goal would be a very short range car, with
tons of power. Idealy this would be a performance setup able to really
spin the tires. If anyone has ideas on a specific make or model of
industrial equipment I would like a hint. Im trying to narrow my search
down so I know what I'm looking at when I see it. I am a big ICE guy
with some experience but I'm intriquged by EV and if I can get a
hi-performance setup working I would be thrilled. Is there anything to
an A/C setup? Do they come in forklifts? Thanks for so much good advice.
Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No, its not. Only the charger enclosure is grounded. There is no current
tracking from the batteries to the EV chassis. I have a ground test switch
that grounds the frame to see if there is any current tracking from the
batteries. A ground detection system uses a solid state circuit or you can
use a simple circuit which uses a small isolated transformer that can
activated a warning light and/or relay which is used to shut the input power
by use of a AC magnetic contactor.
It at any time, this ground detection circuit trips, than its time to clean
the batteries and all related surfaces.
There is also safety contactors that isolated the batteries from the main
contactor while charger. There is also a DC contactor that isolates the
charger from the batteries while the EV is in use.
Before I install all these isolated circuits, you can see the battery
current emit small arcing from aluminum battery boxes which was in the EV at
one time and from the motor commentator to the motor shaft, which is cause
by the motor brush dust making a conductive path to a ground chassis.
Installing a GFI circuit breaker, did not work, as it would trip while the
batteries cells were in a aluminum box. Replacing the aluminum battery box
with a 1/2 thick fiberglass one and adding 2 inch of foam insulation, a
layer of 1/2 inch nylon, a 4 inch air space, another layer of 1/2 inch
nylon, another layer of 2 inch foam prevented the GFI from tripping.
If you look up the NEC Code section on GFI systems, you do not need a ground
wire for it to work. We can install GFI receptacles in a old two wire house
and this systems still works. Install the GFI receptacle at the first outlet
from the circuit breaker and the rest of the 2 wires receptacles will be GFI
protected. This circuits reads the unbalance between the to un-grounded
conductors. A ground wire may be use which is use to test a GFI receptacle
which is done by shorting the neutral and ground wire together in a 120 VAC
device.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Quick PFC20 question
>
>
>
> >From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Subject: Re: Quick PFC20 question
> >Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 07:57:55 -0600
> >
> >Rich is talking about the green wire at the Anderson Connector that is
> >connected with a three wire cable. Only the positive and negative leads
> >are
> >use, not the green wire, which is not connected to the two wire Anderson
> >Connector.
> >
> >If you have a off board charger setting on a bench, all you have is the
> >two
> >battery charger wires to the battery. The PFC chargers are already AC
> >grounded inside by the AC ground. Just take a continuity reading from
> >the
> >AC ground and the a PFC charger and you will read a continuity between
> >the
> >two.
> >
> >If the battery charger is install in the EV, and fasten to the EV
> >chassis,
> >the EV chassis is then AC grounded anyway. The AC input connector
> >receptacle may be a self grounding type, and that too grounds the EV
> >frame
> >and body.
> >
> >Knowing that the PFC is a non-isolated unit, I then made it a isolated
> >grounded system, by having the PFC charger chassis grounded only, but
> >isolated from the EV frame. I work with isolated grounding systems for
> >the
> >last 50 years and there are devices, receptacles, connectors and housings
> >that maintain this ground isolation.
> >
> >The color code for isolated grounding system in the AC side, is orange
> >for
> >the devices and a green conductor with a yellow tracer. My old CableForm
> >charger which was replace by the PFC charger was also not isolated, but
> >was
> >also had isolated grounding from the chassis by have the charger install
> >in
> >a non-conductive enclosure as well as the batteries that was install in a
> >non-conductive enclosure.
> >
> >Even with the non-conductive enclosures, they will be a conductive
> >tracking
> >of current across the plastic battery tops which may be touching the
> >fiberglass containers and may track to a metal chassis, which mine
> >batteries
> >to frame is reading about 0.01 volts.
> >
> >Without this isolation, it would be reading 240 volts while the charger
> >is
> >on. A ground detection system can be install to read the level of
> >conduction
> >that may be conducting to a EV frame. We use these types of devices in
> >isolated ground systems, as in operating rooms, explosion proof areas,
> >explosion storages, communication and computer rooms.
> >
> >If the level of voltage conduction is reach which you can adjust, it will
> >then give a green, yellow, red warning. When it gives a yellow warning,
> >than you have time to shut down the loads. If its reads a red warning,
> >than
> >it will shut the main power to the isolated circuits by used of a AC
> >magnetic contactor.
> >
> >My EV has the isolation circuits wires and AC contactor for this type of
> >system, but did not install the ground detection devices, because for the
> >last 30 years, the double and triple insulated enclosures work very well
> >to
> >reduce this current tracking.
> >
> >Roland
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Roland -
>
> There's one thing I'm not sure about after reading you post about how your
> charger is set up.
>
> When you are charging, is the frame of the car connected to earth ground?
>
>
> Phil
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Mortgage refinance is hot 1) Rates near 30-yr lows 2) Good credit get
> intro-rate 4.625%*
> https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2a5f&s=4056&p=5117&disc=y&vers=743
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since it's off-topic, I'll answer short:
When the 12V battery is flat, it can't provide power to
properly ignite or regulate fuel.
In case of injectors, you won't even have fuel, but in
a carb system you will have raw fuel pumped into the cat,
which is bad for it.
Since a car often does not start on first try, the retries
will increase the problem. This is why I have read in the
owners manual of several cars that they should not be
push-started, even with manual transmission.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 1:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hybrid question - OT
On 3/28/07, Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The Prius (and other cars with the Toyota system) have no starter motor.
[..]
>
> It surprises me that the Honda Hybrid still has a starter motor.
> This certainly is not an advantage, but an additional wear item and
> when the auxiliary battery dies, you are dead in the water....
The Insight normally starts using the IMA motor. It also has a small 12V
starter which is activated in the case that the traction battery is
completely flat, or if there is a serious fault in the IMA system, or if the
circuit breaker is open.
I've never known it to operate on our Insight. It's nice that it's there
though. Oh, and you can push start it as well of course.
> (Or do they mean that the Honda can be push-started? I'd rather not do
> that with a modern emissions-controlled car, if you want to maintain
> emissions control.)
Off topic, but can you explain that? I can't see why there would be a
significant difference to a normal start, provided that the 12V battery has
enough power to run the ignition and fuel injectors normally.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brian,
I have a son who is almost 3, and I went through the garage and got out
an old Power Wheels electric ride on toy that looks like a quad. It was
from the teenagers, and originally was from a garage sale. It never
worked well or long. It had too many switches and connections that
would fail over time. But originally it did have forward, slow forward
and slow reverse. I found a UPS battery on E-bay from Gruber Power
Services, a push type switch that could be mounted on the foot tray,
used the original circuit breaker, and wired it up. My son had been
pushing the quad around in the yard for a few days while I waited for
parts. He was pretty excited yesterday afternoon when I had him try it
out. Now I am wondering if one of the small controllers from a
teenager's electric scooter would be fun to install with a throttle on
the handlebars like a motorcycle.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 8:31 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Squirreling through the boneyard
Boy this sounds like a fun project. I would love to do something like
this as well. I will have to wait a little while, as my son is only
almost 2 years old. Jim, why do you have to live so far away? Perhaps
by the time he is old enough to drive, maybe Jim will have franchised
out his EV motor building business, and there would be a shop close to
where I live...
Brian
On Tue Mar 27 21:32 , Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent:
>Hey Damon, all
>
>--- damon henry [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I haven't spoke much about it yet, but I have a new
>> EV project in hand.
>> With my son turning 16 in two weeks, we decided to
>> take on a little
>> father/son EV adventure. I am now the proud owner
>> of of a fairly straight
>> 1970 Datsun pickup, and the plan is to convert it
>> this summer so the boy has
>> something cool to drive to school next year.
>
>I thought this was cool, what a great project to start
>a teen driving in.
>
>> You may recall Jim Husted gave me a hard time (is
>> there anyone he hasn't yet) after a couple of >
>his "Baby's" were sold and I mentioned that they >
>may be a little overpriced for anyone who was not
>> planning on racing with them.
>
>I recall it very well thank you 8^P By the way Damons
>shop name is now Buck and a quarter so it makes his
>sons name 2 bits 8^o
>Btw You ain't seen a hard time yet 8^)
>
>> Jim tried to mock me by claiming that he was going
>> to paint my name on one
>> of his cores and come into the shop each morning and
>> cuddle it and talk to
>> it until I made a trip there and rebuilt it myself
>> just so I had some perspective on the work he does.
>
>Mock you? I mearly wanted to know what you'd have
>wanted had a mile in my shoe been walked 8^)
>What Damon doesn't know is we're putting this up at
>ebay to see what it goes for, and or, what he's
>wanting, LMAO.
>
>> What you don't know, and what I think might have
>> surprised Jim, was that I
>> immediately shot him back a private email that I
>> would love to come work
>> with him for a day or two, but I was thinking of
>> doing a small truck for my
>> son, and would he mind if we both came and got our
>> hands dirty. Of course,
>> I didn't want some little dinky play thing motor, I
>> wanted something big
>> enough to push a light weight EV around.
>
>Well I do admit I thought you were Darin Gilbert or
>someone far away, LMAO! Guess that's what I get for
>being a smarty pants. Anyway like Buck1/4 says he
>called my bluff and went all-in. Being he'd thrown
>his son into the pot and added a pocket bike in trade
>I coudn't say no 8^) Now if I'd a had a spine I'd
>have told him to get off my leg I was just joking8^o
>but I'm a sucker for this kind of thing 8^) Besides I
>got a pretty good hand with a win, win, win outcome.
>
>I got a new toy, the kid (sorry forget his name, very
>brain dead from drive) gets a cool EV, Dad gets a
>bonding / learning outing and hopefully you all get a
>good read on how this all pans out. Although I'm
>gonna help these guys they are doing the work 8^)
>
>> Since then Jim and I have been making arraingements,
>> and today is the day
>> that we met up at the Forklift boneyard to look
>> through motor cores.
>> I don't know how much cofee Jim starts his day off
>> with, but he reminded me
>> of a squirrel looking for nuts. He was all over the
>> place. He went over,
>> he went under, he squeezed through, he climbed up,
>> he hefted, he pushed, he
>> pulled and...
>
>They moved stuff since I was last there! I didn't
>know he'd put the create I was looking for on the
>third rack, LMAO! I knew he had some clean ADC's but
>I couldn't find the dang things. I found a nice 71/2"
>48 volt Hyster/Yale that was really cherry but he
>wanted 450 (down from the 750.00 listed on net as a
>lift motor). I told him "bag that" and hauled that
>one back, that's when he pointed to the create up on
>the top rack. I shimmied up and had a look and they
>were what I was looking for 8^)
>
>> finally he found just the right cores,
>> one for me and one for
>> him. The ones we ended up with were up on the third
>> rack, and the guy at
>> the shop told Jim with a quiver in his voice, "We
>> can get a lift truck in
>> there" as he was afraid Jim would try climbing down
>> with one tucked under
>> his arm.
>
>There were two dead lifts blocking the rack so we had
>to tow one out of the way. Rather than try to move
>the second one (no way the guy was gonna get it down
>without the other lift moved) I just put the forks
>together, went back up and threw them on the forks.
>Saved at least a 1/2 hour, the more time we take the
>higher the next price is kinda thing. Besides I can't
>tell you how many times I've had to do that in 25
>years 8^) At 45 I can still shoot up a rack pretty
>good though 8^P It was starting to feel like work
>though. Did you feel like if I fell to my death
>getting "your" core the list would come hunt you
>down?? LMAO!
>
>> It was fun though watching him weed through stuff.
>> He used a flashlight to
>> look inside of them, he checked out the brushes,
>> turned them by hand, and
>> either dismissed them as not worth the effort or set
>> them aside as possible
>> candidates. I knew ours were good, because he
>> didn't take anytime at all on
>> them. He just went straight to getting us a good
>> price, and we were on our
>> way.
>
>Always happy to entertain, lol.
>
>Well I've gotten a couple older cores from this guy
>cheaper but the other older cores didn't look so great
>and I wanted to find a nice one for you guys.
>I'd hoped for better but we did okay concerning
>there's no freight and the brushes are all but new so
>additional costs there (unless you needed the leads to
>bling) other than that they are just seated and look
>great.
>
>> He kept a pretty good poker face during
>> negotiations, but afterwords
>> he let me know that these babies are practically
>> brand new. So rather than
>> spending our time rebuilding them, we will be doing
>> things like pressing in
>> a new shaft, and adding a cooling port for forcing
>> air through since they
>> are on the smallish size for EV use.
>
>It's the game, the harder you need it the higher the
>price. If we'd of had more time we could have walked
>and let him fester that he'd lost a sale but we
>didn't. We ended up buying two at 200.00 bucks each
>for those wondering.
>
>Ya I wanted to find something really slimy but still
>good 8^) I wasn't gonna pass on something because it
>looks new, LMAO! You'll still get the full treatment
>and you'll both work hard and go home tired and sleep
>like babies I will see to that 8^P You just won't get
>so dirty, hehe.
>
>> I don't know if Jim wants me to mention this one or
>> not, because for now it
>> is the one that got away. Or perhaps he needs to
>> ignore it on a few more
>> trips so he get's a better price later, but there
>> was one gem that we passed
>> over as it was a bit large for what I am doing.
>> Still, if you are
>> considering something in the 12" range, you might
>> want to contact Jim and
>> see what he can do for you. There was a beauty
>> still in one of the "Parts
>> Lifts". I could see from the look in his eye that
>> Jim fell in love with
>> this one right away and would love to make it one of
>> his...
>
>Yeah the big one did spark my eye but it's a pretty
>late model so he'll probably sit on that a while.
>I'll play a little cat and mouse maybe I can squeek it
>out of him. Let's see how much that cash helps with
>his vacation he mentioned, LMAO.
>
>Well I'm glad you didn't think me rude, I was trying
>to hussle and get the job done. We'll chat when your
>at the shop was my thinking. Anyway this ought to be
>fun we'll get some pics to share as we do it. BTW
>Kayla loves the pocketbike (Damon brought it with
>him). I got some baby motors and at 12 volts she'll
>have a lot of fun on it. Probably won't be long before
>she wants a 6.7 and some Hawkers on it, LMAO.
>
>Okay my brains mush.
>
>Ohh btw the second motor is for Edaurdo, he contacted
>me asking if I could get him something. If you got
>your ears on Eddie boy I got you a nice motor 8^)
>Not EVerything one could hope for but from your
>discriptions this is probably gonna rock your world
>Heck it might EVen make you look like Wayland himself
>down there 8^)
>
>Cya all
>Jim Husted
>Hi-Torque Electric
>
>PS: Stay out of my accorn pile motor boy, LMAO!
>I think he saw you and doubled my price, had nothing
>to do with the later model, LMAO!
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________
_____________
>Be a PS3 game guru.
>Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo!
Games.
>http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform\?platform=120121
---- Msg sent via @=WebMail - http://webmail.usu.edu/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I love the response..."Holy Moly". Cant wait to see
the show.
Lyle
--- Bill Dube wrote:
>
> We put the bike on the dyno today at TK
> Motorsports. Even
> turned down to 900 amps, the KillaCycle is so
> powerful it _bent_ the
> tie-down I-beams on the dyno, and then _broke_ one
> of the hold-down
> straps. We had a total of _7_ straps holding the
> bike down to the
> dyno, but that wasn't enough! It was an exciting
> moment that the film
> crew caught on tape (and Derek caught on tape as
> well,) but
> everything was OK. Just slightly deformed beams on
> the dyno, a broken
> tie down strap, and an adrenaline rush for Bart, who
> was on the bike
> at the time. We decided that three runs was enough
> for today. :-)
>
> I just put up a short clip from the shoot
> on YouTube:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsCD9nVwmNI
> (Sorry, this was before all the major excitement.)
>
> Here is a link to a few snapshots of the
> filming in progress:
>
http://www.killacycle.com/photos/ahdra-race-march-07/
>
> We made three runs on the dyno. I was like
> water off a
> duck's back to the battery pack. It never even
> warned up beyond 63 F.
> When we put it on the charger, it came up in about
> 10 minutes. The
> new BMS that Steve, Scot, and Derek built is working
> perfectly. All
> the green lights came on nearly simultaneously. It
> was a thing of
> beauty to behold.
>
> The sequence will appear on "Future Wheels"
> on the VOOM
> channel of Dish TV in May sometime.
>
> Bill Dube'
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It should be for complete safety.
The chassis of the chargers should always be AC earth grounded.
They are shipped that way.
The question us weather the chassis of the EV should be grounded.
The answer is yes. BUT
Should you short the Pack to negative to AC earth ground.. you only have a
breaker and a diode between the pack and the charger's mains.
This opens the main breaker.. usually after 1/2 of the AC line rectifier has
been blown.
The breaker does open and fast I might add.
Don't short the pack out... when charging...
The solution for not blowing the charger up AND having some bleed off
grounding to reduce the "Tickle" shocks is to wire in a incadesent light
builb from Chassis to Earth ground.
This lets the stray leakage current bleed off to earth ground and prevents
large Fault currents from blowing up the charger.
You have to mount the charger on a insulated pad so it's mounting bolts
don't ground to the EV chassis, Then wire the EV chassis through the light
builb to the Green wire on the DC cable.
This supports the charger case being tied to AC earth ground in a manner
that protects the user from a hard charger fault, and keeps a "Dropped
Wrench" from scattering the charger's power stage.
And the light bleeds off and displays stray leakage currents and a hard
fault lights up the builb as a warning the you have a hard Pack to chassis
Fault.
One side of the Line Does not get connected directly to the Pack. There is
always a diode and a breaker between the Line plug and the Negative Battery
contact.
The diode and the breaker do not give you "Isolation" but. You are not
completley unproteced...Some folks out there might not know the
difference...
Some think I just ran a line from the Battery...to the Grid... Not so.
The Positive side is controlled by the PFC switcher and a Rectifier Fuse and
the breaker, and the current controlled PFC control.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
>
> Roland -
>
> There's one thing I'm not sure about after reading you post about how your
> charger is set up.
>
> When you are charging, is the frame of the car connected to earth ground?
>
>
> Phil
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Mortgage refinance is hot 1) Rates near 30-yr lows 2) Good credit get
> intro-rate 4.625%*
>
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2a5f&s=4056&p=5117&disc=y&vers=743
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A short time back, there was an interesting mews item
on the EVDL about Enova Systems building and
delivering Hybrid delivery vans. Well, yesterday as I
was leaving work, I noticed a FEDEX truck leaving in
the lane beside me and also noticed an unusual sticker
on the back and side of the van body. It was a Hybrid
Electric delivery van/truck and it looked and sounded
like any other delivery truck out there. It definitely
kept up with traffic. Wish I could get one of those
systems for my big pickup as it gets about 8 mpg. I
don't know if anyone else has seen one of these out
there. Dan Eyk
____________________________________________________________________________________
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I guess what you are telling me, is that they are never too young. I think
that I will wait until he is a little older to involve him with the project,
but I have had ideas for the children to start with. Time will tell if they
ever really get done. But recently I participated in an open class pine wood
derby, and put some small 3 volt motors. I won first place. My children had
fun helping by painting. Maybe I can let them do more next time.
Brian
On Wed Mar 28 13:24 , Alan Brinkman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent:
>Brian,
>
>I have a son who is almost 3, and I went through the garage and got out
>an old Power Wheels electric ride on toy that looks like a quad. It was
>from the teenagers, and originally was from a garage sale. It never
>worked well or long. It had too many switches and connections that
>would fail over time. But originally it did have forward, slow forward
>and slow reverse. I found a UPS battery on E-bay from Gruber Power
>Services, a push type switch that could be mounted on the foot tray,
>used the original circuit breaker, and wired it up. My son had been
>pushing the quad around in the yard for a few days while I waited for
>parts. He was pretty excited yesterday afternoon when I had him try it
>out. Now I am wondering if one of the small controllers from a
>teenager's electric scooter would be fun to install with a throttle on
>the handlebars like a motorcycle.
>
>Alan
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]','','','')">[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 8:31 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Squirreling through the boneyard
>
>Boy this sounds like a fun project. I would love to do something like
>this as well. I will have to wait a little while, as my son is only
>almost 2 years old. Jim, why do you have to live so far away? Perhaps
>by the time he is old enough to drive, maybe Jim will have franchised
>out his EV motor building business, and there would be a shop close to
>where I live...
>
>Brian
>
>
> On Tue Mar 27 21:32 , Jim Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent:
>
>>Hey Damon, all
>>
>>--- damon henry [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> I haven't spoke much about it yet, but I have a new
>>> EV project in hand.
>>> With my son turning 16 in two weeks, we decided to
>>> take on a little
>>> father/son EV adventure. I am now the proud owner
>>> of of a fairly straight
>>> 1970 Datsun pickup, and the plan is to convert it
>>> this summer so the boy has
>>> something cool to drive to school next year.
>>
>>I thought this was cool, what a great project to start
>>a teen driving in.
>>
>>> You may recall Jim Husted gave me a hard time (is
>>> there anyone he hasn't yet) after a couple of >
>>his "Baby's" were sold and I mentioned that they >
>>may be a little overpriced for anyone who was not
>>> planning on racing with them.
>>
>>I recall it very well thank you 8^P By the way Damons
>>shop name is now Buck and a quarter so it makes his
>>sons name 2 bits 8^o
>>Btw You ain't seen a hard time yet 8^)
>>
>>> Jim tried to mock me by claiming that he was going
>>> to paint my name on one
>>> of his cores and come into the shop each morning and
>>> cuddle it and talk to
>>> it until I made a trip there and rebuilt it myself
>>> just so I had some perspective on the work he does.
>>
>>Mock you? I mearly wanted to know what you'd have
>>wanted had a mile in my shoe been walked 8^)
>>What Damon doesn't know is we're putting this up at
>>ebay to see what it goes for, and or, what he's
>>wanting, LMAO.
>>
>>> What you don't know, and what I think might have
>>> surprised Jim, was that I
>>> immediately shot him back a private email that I
>>> would love to come work
>>> with him for a day or two, but I was thinking of
>>> doing a small truck for my
>>> son, and would he mind if we both came and got our
>>> hands dirty. Of course,
>>> I didn't want some little dinky play thing motor, I
>>> wanted something big
>>> enough to push a light weight EV around.
>>
>>Well I do admit I thought you were Darin Gilbert or
>>someone far away, LMAO! Guess that's what I get for
>>being a smarty pants. Anyway like Buck1/4 says he
>>called my bluff and went all-in. Being he'd thrown
>>his son into the pot and added a pocket bike in trade
>>I coudn't say no 8^) Now if I'd a had a spine I'd
>>have told him to get off my leg I was just joking8^o
>>but I'm a sucker for this kind of thing 8^) Besides I
>>got a pretty good hand with a win, win, win outcome.
>>
>>I got a new toy, the kid (sorry forget his name, very
>>brain dead from drive) gets a cool EV, Dad gets a
>>bonding / learning outing and hopefully you all get a
>>good read on how this all pans out. Although I'm
>>gonna help these guys they are doing the work 8^)
>>
>>> Since then Jim and I have been making arraingements,
>>> and today is the day
>>> that we met up at the Forklift boneyard to look
>>> through motor cores.
>>> I don't know how much cofee Jim starts his day off
>>> with, but he reminded me
>>> of a squirrel looking for nuts. He was all over the
>>> place. He went over,
>>> he went under, he squeezed through, he climbed up,
>>> he hefted, he pushed, he
>>> pulled and...
>>
>>They moved stuff since I was last there! I didn't
>>know he'd put the create I was looking for on the
>>third rack, LMAO! I knew he had some clean ADC's but
>>I couldn't find the dang things. I found a nice 71/2"
>>48 volt Hyster/Yale that was really cherry but he
>>wanted 450 (down from the 750.00 listed on net as a
>>lift motor). I told him "bag that" and hauled that
>>one back, that's when he pointed to the create up on
>>the top rack. I shimmied up and had a look and they
>>were what I was looking for 8^)
>>
>>> finally he found just the right cores,
>>> one for me and one for
>>> him. The ones we ended up with were up on the third
>>> rack, and the guy at
>>> the shop told Jim with a quiver in his voice, "We
>>> can get a lift truck in
>>> there" as he was afraid Jim would try climbing down
>>> with one tucked under
>>> his arm.
>>
>>There were two dead lifts blocking the rack so we had
>>to tow one out of the way. Rather than try to move
>>the second one (no way the guy was gonna get it down
>>without the other lift moved) I just put the forks
>>together, went back up and threw them on the forks.
>>Saved at least a 1/2 hour, the more time we take the
>>higher the next price is kinda thing. Besides I can't
>>tell you how many times I've had to do that in 25
>>years 8^) At 45 I can still shoot up a rack pretty
>>good though 8^P It was starting to feel like work
>>though. Did you feel like if I fell to my death
>>getting "your" core the list would come hunt you
>>down?? LMAO!
>>
>>> It was fun though watching him weed through stuff.
>>> He used a flashlight to
>>> look inside of them, he checked out the brushes,
>>> turned them by hand, and
>>> either dismissed them as not worth the effort or set
>>> them aside as possible
>>> candidates. I knew ours were good, because he
>>> didn't take anytime at all on
>>> them. He just went straight to getting us a good
>>> price, and we were on our
>>> way.
>>
>>Always happy to entertain, lol.
>>
>>Well I've gotten a couple older cores from this guy
>>cheaper but the other older cores didn't look so great
>>and I wanted to find a nice one for you guys.
>>I'd hoped for better but we did okay concerning
>>there's no freight and the brushes are all but new so
>>additional costs there (unless you needed the leads to
>>bling) other than that they are just seated and look
>>great.
>>
>>> He kept a pretty good poker face during
>>> negotiations, but afterwords
>>> he let me know that these babies are practically
>>> brand new. So rather than
>>> spending our time rebuilding them, we will be doing
>>> things like pressing in
>>> a new shaft, and adding a cooling port for forcing
>>> air through since they
>>> are on the smallish size for EV use.
>>
>>It's the game, the harder you need it the higher the
>>price. If we'd of had more time we could have walked
>>and let him fester that he'd lost a sale but we
>>didn't. We ended up buying two at 200.00 bucks each
>>for those wondering.
>>
>>Ya I wanted to find something really slimy but still
>>good 8^) I wasn't gonna pass on something because it
>>looks new, LMAO! You'll still get the full treatment
>>and you'll both work hard and go home tired and sleep
>>like babies I will see to that 8^P You just won't get
>>so dirty, hehe.
>>
>>> I don't know if Jim wants me to mention this one or
>>> not, because for now it
>>> is the one that got away. Or perhaps he needs to
>>> ignore it on a few more
>>> trips so he get's a better price later, but there
>>> was one gem that we passed
>>> over as it was a bit large for what I am doing.
>>> Still, if you are
>>> considering something in the 12" range, you might
>>> want to contact Jim and
>>> see what he can do for you. There was a beauty
>>> still in one of the "Parts
>>> Lifts". I could see from the look in his eye that
>>> Jim fell in love with
>>> this one right away and would love to make it one of
>>> his...
>>
>>Yeah the big one did spark my eye but it's a pretty
>>late model so he'll probably sit on that a while.
>>I'll play a little cat and mouse maybe I can squeek it
>>out of him. Let's see how much that cash helps with
>>his vacation he mentioned, LMAO.
>>
>>Well I'm glad you didn't think me rude, I was trying
>>to hussle and get the job done. We'll chat when your
>>at the shop was my thinking. Anyway this ought to be
>>fun we'll get some pics to share as we do it. BTW
>>Kayla loves the pocketbike (Damon brought it with
>>him). I got some baby motors and at 12 volts she'll
>>have a lot of fun on it. Probably won't be long before
>>she wants a 6.7 and some Hawkers on it, LMAO.
>>
>>Okay my brains mush.
>>
>>Ohh btw the second motor is for Edaurdo, he contacted
>>me asking if I could get him something. If you got
>>your ears on Eddie boy I got you a nice motor 8^)
>>Not EVerything one could hope for but from your
>>discriptions this is probably gonna rock your world
>>Heck it might EVen make you look like Wayland himself
>>down there 8^)
>>
>>Cya all
>>Jim Husted
>>Hi-Torque Electric
>>
>>PS: Stay out of my accorn pile motor boy, LMAO!
>>I think he saw you and doubled my price, had nothing
>>to do with the later model, LMAO!
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________________________________
>_____________
>>Be a PS3 game guru.
>>Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo!
>Games.
>>http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform\?platform=120121
>
>---- Msg sent via @=WebMail - http://webmail.usu.edu/
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http://www.rcmaterial.com/pdfs/APR18650M1.pdf
Interesting news, for those that are interested in A123 lithium iron phosphate
cells.
- Tony
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Evan... I don't use a GFI or chassis ground on my personal EV ..
I use nothing... Just the charger, NO Neg side contactor..
And Ya Know.. I am still alive after 15 years of EV racing and designing..
I don't work on the EV when the charger is on.. I don't work on it while
standing in water...
A couple of simple steps.. and there is no real danger.
That is said, to point out how logically safe a non Isolated EV is even
without out any safety gear.
I suppose it's that time of year to fight the yearly Safety loops.. Same old
thing.. same old results.
Gotta have Iso, GFI, Earth Ground all exposed metal....But, once you have a
running EV and realize that unless you have damaged gear and or hard chassis
to pack faults... you have very little chance of even getting a light
tickle.
Adding in all the saftey results in total safety and the ability to be
stupid with high voltage and not even get shocked.
On most EVs that I have been in that had GFI and Isotransformer and Chassis
ground, there were usually some errors in install that basicly voided all
the efforts that were used.
Keep in mind .. I have chargers installed in Salt water enviroments... and
wet areas...
There is a point where adding in a Safety ground just makes the two point
fault shock easier to create.
Floating Grounds.. lets a user get into bad places and still not become the
two point contact.
This is a very special case though.
Evan ..if you need the chassis grounded.. then please do so. The charger
chassis is always grounded...
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 1:00 AM
Subject: Re: Quick PFC20 question
> Rich, no offence intended but that doesn't sound like very sensible
> advice. Cars (even fibreglass ones) aren't designed to be double
> insulated. DIY battery boxes and wiring aren't usually either. If
> you've got mains electricity in any appliance with "floating
> metalwork" then it should be grounded - don't just rely on a GFCI
> breaker, especially if it's user supplied.
>
> Sorry to go on about it but this sounds like an accident waiting to
happen.
>
>
> On 3/26/07, Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > no need to wire in ground.
> >
> > Rich Rudman
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 4:34 PM
> > Subject: Quick PFC20 question
> >
> >
> > > I just got my shiny new Manzanita Micro PFC20 charger a yesterday!!
> > >
> > > I want to get this thing maintaining my Buggy batteries but I have a
> > > question. On the output side there is an Anderson connector and a
> > > unused green ground wire. Since my charger case won't be tied to the
> > > chassis of the buggy (seeing as how its fiberglass) should I connect
> > > the green wire of the output to frame ground?
> > >
> > > Thanx,
> > > Paul "neon" G.
> > >
> >
> >
>
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Peter you still don't get my point, but no matter. If it is a worthwhile
question others will ask it of the experts and then we'll get an answer.
In any case bio-fuels have some qualities that make them attractive, as
we all agree. There is a big money flowing into the area, so I am sure
they'll be with us for a long while. In England there is even a car
racing association that promotes ethanol and here there is some movement
among Indy racing and maybe some circle-track racers.
As matter of fact though, for alcohols, fermentation is much less
cost-efficient than cellulosic production, so the feedstock will surely
be cheap bio-mass and not expensive cash crops, even with the corn lobby.
In any case bio-fuels aren't clean enough to be a help in my project.
JF
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
While it is possible to make biofuels from bio waste, most bio fuels
being made currently are the primary product rather than secondary. I.e.
ethanol is usually made from the corn kernals rather than the corn stalks.
at any rate, it doesn't really matter what part of the plant bio fuels are
made from. The carbon in the bio fuel exhaust came OUT of the air in the
first place and CAN'T be greater than the amount of CO2 the plant removed
from the atmosphere in the first place.
...
admitting that I haven't any expertise, I still don't get the point of
your argument.
Lets take the corn example.
...
But I *think* that you are adding net CO2 unless you plow up a parking lot
to grow your bio-mass. Again, I see the point
of bio-fuel, I am not trying to stamp it out. I might well use it myself.
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On 3/28/07, Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Evan... I don't use a GFI or chassis ground on my personal EV ..
I use nothing... Just the charger, NO Neg side contactor..
And Ya Know.. I am still alive after 15 years of EV racing and designing..
My first EV had similar features and I'm here to tell the tale as
well. I did get a few bites mind you.
On the one I have now the chassis is grounded. It's protected by a
class A RCD. It has an isolated charger. There is a DC leak current
detector.
That is said, to point out how logically safe a non Isolated EV is even
without out any safety gear.
Logical? It's a bit like saying, I balance a TV and a popcorn maker
on the edge while I'm having a bath, and I advise you to do the same
(look, it's perfectly safe, I didn't die).
Evan ..if you need the chassis grounded.. then please do so. The charger
chassis is always grounded...
Nothing you have said has addressed the point that it seems to be
reckless to advise Paul to leave his buggy chassis un-grounded, while
he's using a non-isolated charger. Do you seriously expect his
conditions and awareness to be identical to your own in your own
garage?
What happens if he takes your advice, his car develops a bad leak to
the chassis and then some kid wanders up and touches the door handle
while it's charging?
I'm surprised, that's all.
Evan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 1:00 AM
Subject: Re: Quick PFC20 question
> Rich, no offence intended but that doesn't sound like very sensible
> advice. Cars (even fibreglass ones) aren't designed to be double
> insulated. DIY battery boxes and wiring aren't usually either. If
> you've got mains electricity in any appliance with "floating
> metalwork" then it should be grounded - don't just rely on a GFCI
> breaker, especially if it's user supplied.
>
> Sorry to go on about it but this sounds like an accident waiting to
happen.
>
>
> On 3/26/07, Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > no need to wire in ground.
> >
> > Rich Rudman
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 4:34 PM
> > Subject: Quick PFC20 question
> >
> >
> > > I just got my shiny new Manzanita Micro PFC20 charger a yesterday!!
> > >
> > > I want to get this thing maintaining my Buggy batteries but I have a
> > > question. On the output side there is an Anderson connector and a
> > > unused green ground wire. Since my charger case won't be tied to the
> > > chassis of the buggy (seeing as how its fiberglass) should I connect
> > > the green wire of the output to frame ground?
> > >
> > > Thanx,
> > > Paul "neon" G.
> > >
> >
> >
>
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