EV Digest 6608
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: My charger is here...
by "Patrick Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Power terminals
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Announcing the 8th SunDay Challenge in FL!
by "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Power terminals
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Advanced brushes
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: [EV] RE: My charger is here...
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: May C&D Article on White Zombie
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re:A123 M1 18650 sized battery coming out
by Mike Swift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Siamese 8 field windings
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: A123 M1 18650 sized battery coming out
by Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11)
by KARSTEN GOPINATH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Advanced brushes
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: ADC v.s. ImPulse9
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Cheap Relay Recommendation
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: [EV] RE: My charger is here...
by "Andrew Kane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: gensets was charging while driving question
by Cory Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Colorado EV'ers
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Race Motor Specs (was RE: Siamese 8 field windings)
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: practical application
by DAVID BARWICK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Quick PFC20 question
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EV FORD CRATED MOTORS ON EBAY
by DAVID BARWICK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: A123 M1 18650 sized battery coming out
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Advanced brushes
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: May C&D Article on White Zombie
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Siamese 8 field windings
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I would like to see the spec sheet for the charger if it is included in the
manual. Congrats on the charger I guess the only thing left is to tell
'Prudencia' to lay off the cat nip. She looks dazad and confused.
From: Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: My charger is here...
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:16:39 -0400
Remember me asking about slow charging?
Well, response was not that bad from you guys, so I bought a 48 volt 10amp
charger from taiwan (bought new off ebay and shipped direct from taiwan
to Chile. the world IS flat) and it arrived today. Shipper is 'Kipoint
enterprises' and so far the service has been great.
Charger came setup for 48volt flodded lead acid and 220volts 50hz input
and they even sent me the Shuko plug I requested.
After pricing a Zivan NG3 (the cheapest inteligent charger I can get
down here) at US$1100, the US$190 I paid for this one (including 6 days
air
shipping) was a steal.
I havent tried it yet, but its looks good.
Some pictures: http://www.nn.cl/Autos/EV/Charger/
I can scan the manual if you want it.
ps: the cat's name is 'Prudencia' :)
--
Eduardo K. | Some say it's forgive and forget.
http://www.carfun.cl | I say forget about forgiving just accept.
http://ev.nn.cl | And get the hell out of town.
| Minnie Driver, Grosse Point
Blank
_________________________________________________________________
Interest Rates near 39yr lows! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate
new payment
http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-18466&moid=7581
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--- Begin Message ---
Yes pretty much, I found one potential candidate at
http://bluesea.com/category/9/productline/specs/11
If anyone know of similar products, let me know.
Thanks
-Peter
On 3/28/07, Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Just to be clear and so we are on the same page as to exactly what you
are looking for.
Are you looking for something just like this? (though which can handle
more current obviously):
http://www.msdignition.com/coil_acc_3.htm
--
www.electric-lemon.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone!
In the spirit of automotive innovation, the Florida Solar Energy Center,
Florida Electric Auto Association, Florida Institute of Technology, and the
Space Coast Clean Cities Coalition will conduct an alternative fuel vehicle
(AFV) event featuring solar, fuel cell, electric, hybrid and plug-in hybrid
vehicles. The three day event will consist of performance testing,
autocross, road rally and workshops.
Day One: Saturday, October 6, 2007
Time: 9 am to 4 pm
Location: Florida Solar Energy Center, Cocoa, Florida
Activity: performance testing and autocross
Day Two: Sunday, October 7, 2007
Time: 10 am to 2 pm
Start Location: Florida Solar Energy Center
Finish Location: Florida Institute of Technology, Melbourne, Florida
Activity: SunDay Challenge road rally
Day Three: Monday, October 8, 2007
Time: 10 am to 4 pm
Location: Florida Solar Energy Center
Activity: AFV Advancing the Choice workshop
Contacts:
FSEC and SC3 - Bill Young, 321-638-1443
FLEAA - Shawn Waggoner, 561-543-9223
FIT - Frank Leslie, 321-674-7377
Check out the website for details:
http://floridaeaa.org/modules/content/index.php?id=21
or
http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/media/events/sundaychallenge/index.htm
To download a PDF Flyer for the event, go to:
http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/media/events/sundaychallenge/SC-2007-01-1.pdf
Shawn Waggoner
Florida EAA
561-543-9223
www.floridaeaa.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Search for "power feedthrough" or "electrical feedthrough" for good results:
http://www.insulatorseal.com/searchs/doc/PowerIntro.htm
http://www.caburn.co.uk/en/catalogue/index.htm?xpath=/section[6]/section[5]/section[4]
Info:
"Power feedthroughs are solid or stranded conductors surrounded by
insulation, shielding, and a protective jacket. They are designed for
high voltages and are found in many applications including vacuum
furnaces, sample heating, biasing and in-vacuum coating applications
such as electron beam evaporation, resistive heating evaporation and
DC plasma sputtering."
http://process-equipment.globalspec.com/LearnMore/Manufacturing_Process_Equipment/Microelectronics_Manufacturing/Electrical_Feedthroughs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been on the list a while now and have heard alot, but i still don't
understand what advancing a brush on a motor does for you?
_________________________________________________________________
http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!420
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, Mar 28, 2007 at 10:33:21PM -0400, Patrick Andrews wrote:
>
> I would like to see the spec sheet for the charger if it is included in the
> manual.
I will scan it tomorrow and post a link. There is not much of a spec sheet,
but there are some nice graphics on charge profile.
> Congrats on the charger I guess the only thing left is to tell
> 'Prudencia' to lay off the cat nip. She looks dazad and confused.
LOL.
She LOVES carboard boxes. Every incoming shipping box ends up shredded
as soon as she lays her claws in them...
--
Eduardo K. | Some say it's forgive and forget.
http://www.carfun.cl | I say forget about forgiving just accept.
http://ev.nn.cl | And get the hell out of town.
| Minnie Driver, Grosse Point Blank
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> -----Original Message-----
> Jim Husted wrote:
>
> WTG Wayland! as well as all that attended who helped
> make a great EVent as well as an awesome write up!
Yes John, thanks for all the effort it took to push this through!
> Jim Husted wrote:
>
> As for me I couldn't be a prouder "electroid" 8^)
>
Is that "electroid" or electrode? ;-)
Must be one of those "drag-strip cross-dresser, letting out silent burnouts
that leave a respectable fog bank" things, eh?
Hey, at least we're a respectable "lunatic fringe" ;-P
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mar 28, 2007, at 2:30 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: March 28, 2007 1:49:27 PM PDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: A123 M1 18650 sized battery coming out
http://www.rcmaterial.com/pdfs/APR18650M1.pdf
Interesting news, for those that are interested in A123 lithium
iron phosphate cells.
- Tony
Thats 75 to 90 Wh/kg depending on how you measure it. I use the lower
number as real world, and the high number for selling it. This is
about 50% of what you can get from the Cobalt chemistry, however you
do not have to worry that your car will look like a Dell computer in
an accident.:)
Does anyone know what the projected price is for these cells?
Mike Swift
Two things only the people anxiously desire, bread and circuses.
Decimus Junius Juvenalls
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Hey....a little credit my way, guys :-) You know, I 'did' have just a
little input on this project :-)
From Jim:
Actually doing Johns motor was all about shortening the motor then giving him a shaft
that would satisfy that nice big 9" rear end he has 8^o
Anyway no magic just two 8's on a big Spartan stick
8^) well maybe a couple of tricks
OK, where to start? Let's see what Jimmy boy left out here... Yes, the
basic idea was to shorten the two motors so that the new Siamesed motors
could fit into the little 1200's engine bay better and not be propped up
at the frame rail in front with its output end pointing at an angle
towards the ground, and yes, the idea was also to shave off about 25
lbs. of weight (includes jettisoning the big metal twin motor mount).
But there's soooooo much more:
(1) There's the little detail of the replacing the factory single runs
of 6 gauge brush interconnect wires, with dual 4 gauge brush
interconnect leads that I insisted on for each brush (helps carry far
more amperage around to all the brushes).
(2) The little detail of hand-timed motor sections...perfected by Tim
and I with ammeters, voltmeters, and a mechanical tachometer.
(3) The little detail of eye-balling and using straight edges to
perfectly align the armature laminations and combars with one another.
(4) The little detail of trimming away the sharp brush rigging corners
I've seen start and sustain arcing in past racing motors.
(5) The little detail of insisting on glyptal-ing (fights against high
voltage arc-over) the interior of the brush end bells, the brush rigging
supports, the filed coils at possible arc jump-off points, and other
areas inside the motor that as a seasoned electric drag racer, I knew
to be arc-starting points.
(6) The little detail of insisting on the center fan housing being
relieved of more metal to better transfer cooling air to both motor
sections.
(7) The little detail of insisting that the motor shaft be machined into
the Spicer spec'ed splines to slide right into the Spicer 400 U-joint.
(8) The little detail of keeping the exact turn count of those stock
fields to preserve the torque I knew my car needed to succeed as a
direct drive set up.
(9) The little detail of the co-designing with Marko Mongillo, those
beefy (and very much needed) center mounted external motor-bracing cross
member steel support brackets.
Rod Hower wrote:
Holly crap Batman,
That really impresses a control designer when looking
at the abuse the poor Zilla puts up with. We're
talking about switching batteries into a dead short
more or less with only 12 turns when launching from
the lightpole!
Now you know why serious EV drag racers all use a Zilla! No one, and I
mean 'no one' makes a stouter, more reliable controller.
I'm also really impressed that Jim's first motor has
taken the abuse of 'we blow things up so you don't
have to!
Yes, I am too. Jim's workmanship is quite simply, the best I've ever
seen. But I'll take some of the credit my way for arguing my points into
Jim's former 'low speed whir-around-the-warehouse forklift world only'
electric motor brain, to where he now understands the huge difference
between 36 volts at 500 amps vs hundreds of volts at 2000 amps, the
difference between neutral timing and advanced timing, and the
difference between continuous ratings and a drag racer's 'overload
ratings'! Along the way, we've become cherished friends, and that's
worth more than all the tweaked copper in the world.
I warned Jim, that by hooking up with me, he'd be dragged into the
'spooky region of fringe lunacy' (sorry, Ted) that is the world of 'The
Ampheads'...life for him has and never will, be the same :-(
See Ya....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
"We blow things up, so you don't have to!"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've heard $5 to $8?
- Tony
----- Original Message ----
From: Mike Swift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 8:11:29 PM
Subject: Re:A123 M1 18650 sized battery coming out
On Mar 28, 2007, at 2:30 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
> From: Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: March 28, 2007 1:49:27 PM PDT
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: A123 M1 18650 sized battery coming out
>
>
> http://www.rcmaterial.com/pdfs/APR18650M1.pdf
>
> Interesting news, for those that are interested in A123 lithium
> iron phosphate cells.
>
> - Tony
>
Thats 75 to 90 Wh/kg depending on how you measure it. I use the lower
number as real world, and the high number for selling it. This is
about 50% of what you can get from the Cobalt chemistry, however you
do not have to worry that your car will look like a Dell computer in
an accident.:)
Does anyone know what the projected price is for these cells?
Mike Swift
Two things only the people anxiously desire, bread and circuses.
Decimus Junius Juvenalls
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
unsubscribe
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Tim,
I'm a bit of a novice, but will give this a shot first. At higher
voltages, arcing is likely to take place. Also, my car is a Civic, in which
case the drivetrain rotates opposite of most cars. At higher speeds and with a
constant arcing, you get decreased brush life, a high pitched squeal, and less
efficiency. All three are solved by advancing (or retarding, depending on the
rotation of the crankshaft) one's brushes.
I describe the process on my website, but the point is that it's easy,
thanks to Advanced DC's motor design.
peace,
Tim Gamber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I've been on the list a while now and have heard alot, but i still don't
understand what advancing a brush on a motor does for you?
_________________________________________________________________
http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!420
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
---------------------------------
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My understanding is that the two are quite similar, but that the Warp 9 has a
constantly-running fan to blow out carbon dust, which apparently is a nice
safety feature. I've owned ADC 9" for 4K miles w/o incident, an ADC 8" for 8K
miles also w/o incident, but not the Warp 9, so cannot comment on it.
Hope that helps,
"Roger Daisley @ R J Ranch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Any comments on the Advanced D.C. 8" motor (#203-06-4001) vs.. the ImPulse 9
motor?
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
---------------------------------
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh come on Lee, the guy was asking about a relay to c=onnect the test
leads of a multimeter. Unless he is using it to directly measure current
(which I'm pretty sure he is NOT doing), he isn't going to draw anywhere
near enough current to cause arcs or corona effects.
> From: Peter VanDerWal
>> Since you aren't going to be pulling any significant current
>> through it, you can use a relay whose contacts are rated for
>> AC voltage, i.e. a common 120-240V AC rated relay with say a
>> 12V dc coil.
>
> This can work; but you'll have to test it to be sure. AC rated relays and
> switches depend on the AC line voltage to cross zero 120 times a second
> (at 60 Hz). Any arc that was established when the contacts opened will
> automatically extinguish at each zero crossing.
>
> On DC, the arc won't extinguish unless the open contact's spacing is large
> enough. How large depends on the DC voltage.
>
> You'd be surprised how little current it takes to sustain an arc. Also, if
> the contacts are very close together and have pointed edges, you will get
> corona and leakage current even if no arc is present. So, it is quite
> possible to have a contact that is only switching 1 milliamp leak or arc
> with a high DC voltage present.
>
> *Test* whatever switch or relay you are using to be *sure* it is truly
> opening when switching DC.
>
> Or better yet, use a switch or relay that has DC ratings. Then you know it
> has been tested, and passed.
>
>
> --
> "Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
> doing it." -- Chinese proverb
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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--- Begin Message ---
Prudencia is a beautiful cat! I hope no-one ships you any *charged*
batteries though...
On 3/28/07, Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 28, 2007 at 10:33:21PM -0400, Patrick Andrews wrote:
>
> I would like to see the spec sheet for the charger if it is included in
the
> manual.
I will scan it tomorrow and post a link. There is not much of a spec
sheet,
but there are some nice graphics on charge profile.
> Congrats on the charger I guess the only thing left is to tell
> 'Prudencia' to lay off the cat nip. She looks dazad and confused.
LOL.
She LOVES carboard boxes. Every incoming shipping box ends up shredded
as soon as she lays her claws in them...
--
Eduardo K. | Some say it's forgive and forget.
http://www.carfun.cl | I say forget about forgiving just accept.
http://ev.nn.cl | And get the hell out of town.
| Minnie Driver, Grosse Point
Blank
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Randy Burleson wrote:
I get that, really, I do -- the big three have well-earned the suspicion
they receive from the EV community.
The trick is to balance this suspicion with hope, and I'm not sure how
well we do this.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070323/AUTO01/703230356&theme=Autos-Green-tech-hybrids
GM themselves are already backing away from the Volt...
There's a lot of hope for Jerry and Lee, I'm hoping you guys can pull it
off.
Cory Cross
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 3/28/2007 6:10:26 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Is there any kind of monthly get together or meetings about EV's?
I would like to find some local people with EV's who wouldn't mind showing
them off. (and giving tips to a newbie wanting to build their own. ;)
I'm in the littleton area, but regularly visit colorado springs.
Thanks!
There used to be a Denver EV group that got together regularly.
Rumor has it they are reviving.
There's a few EVers in Boulder (of course!)
Two of us (that I know of) in Colo Spgs.
Matt Parkhouse
Colorado Springs, CO
BMW m/c-Golf Cart trike - 48 volts, 30mph on the flat, 35 mile range
1972 VW Van - to be converted this year!
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well well well, now look at this little pile of acorns, he he...
> John Wayland wrote:
>
> (1) There's the little detail of the replacing the factory single runs
> of 6 gauge brush interconnect wires, with dual 4 gauge brush
> interconnect leads that I insisted on for each brush (helps carry far
> more amperage around to all the brushes).
less I^2*R losses and less heat buildup are results?
> (2) The little detail of hand-timed motor sections...perfected by Tim
> and I with ammeters, voltmeters, and a mechanical tachometer.
Is the trick here to balance amps through each while they are running in
parallel? Or were you timing to get some amount of amps
at a specific RPM?
> (3) The little detail of eye-balling and using straight edges to
> perfectly align the armature laminations and combars with one another.
Did you do this when they were *twins* with the gear coupler too? If they were
not perfectly aligned back then, would the hand
timing in (2) above take care of the mis-alignment anyway?
> (4) The little detail of trimming away the sharp brush rigging corners
> I've seen start and sustain arcing in past racing motors.
The idea being to decrease the corona effect which intensifies the
electrostatic field around small protrusions and sharp edges?
How about arcing on the brushes themselves? Does it mainly occur on the
leading and trailing edges of a brush? ...or the side
edges near the fore or aft end of the commutator bars. I would think that
brush arcing would tend to occur or at least begin at
the corner edges of a brush. If this is a problem at high voltages do you
think putting a small radius on the corners and edges
(not the leading and trailing edges though) would reduce that by any
significant amount? Of course the brushes would eventually
wear flat again, but I wonder if it would allow that few extra volts without
blowing something up? Or is the light show the
point?
> (5) The little detail of insisting on glyptal-ing (fights against high
> voltage arc-over) the interior of the brush end bells, the brush rigging
> supports, the filed coils at possible arc jump-off points, and other
> areas inside the motor that as a seasoned electric drag racer, I knew
> to be arc-starting points.
Can't argue with reason AND experience :-)
> (6) The little detail of insisting on the center fan housing being
> relieved of more metal to better transfer cooling air to both motor
> sections.
Is this something specific only to a siamese set up?
> (7) The little detail of insisting that the motor shaft be machined into
> the Spicer spec'ed splines to slide right into the Spicer 400 U-joint.
Hey check it out. The TransWarp's are already coming this way. Good ideas
don't take long to catch on. Now if only they had
enough room to make the C.E. side a female of the same spline and then coupling
two together would be a no brainer :-O Even with
my uncalibrated eyeballs though I can see that would take a larger bearing to
house the extra shaft material which would also
increase the diameter of the commutator. Which I suppose is not a good thing
at higher RPM?
> (8) The little detail of keeping the exact turn count of those stock
> fields to preserve the torque I knew my car needed to succeed as a
> direct drive set up.
Was this a point of contention? What, was Jim trying to short you a turn of
copper on each coil? I know its getting pretty
spendy these days. 1 turn oughtta be around $1 worth of copper each, eh?
> (9) The little detail of the co-designing with Marko Mongillo, those
> beefy (and very much needed) center mounted external motor-bracing cross
> member steel support brackets.
Are these the ones that cover one of the field pole shoe bolts that you have a
screw countersunk into the housing under? Could
you not have just opened up a hole in the mount that would be big enough to get
a socket into and retain the regular hex head
bolt. After all, that would also allow you to shave off a few ounces of metal
;-P
> Now you know why serious EV drag racers all use a Zilla! No one, and I
> mean 'no one' makes a stouter, more reliable controller.
He's got total *control* of that operation, he he ;-) so does that make Ot a
*control* freak? In the words of Jim, LMAO.
> Jim's workmanship is quite simply, the best I've ever
> seen. But I'll take some of the credit my way for arguing my points into
> Jim's former 'low speed whir-around-the-warehouse forklift world only'
> electric motor brain, to where he now understands the huge difference
> between 36 volts at 500 amps vs hundreds of volts at 2000 amps, the
> difference between neutral timing and advanced timing, and the
> difference between continuous ratings and a drag racer's 'overload
> ratings'! Along the way, we've become cherished friends, and that's
> worth more than all the tweaked copper in the world.
Here here. But besides those minor points you stated above though, Jim's
motors are still a work of art ;-P he he
> I warned Jim, that by hooking up with me, he'd be dragged into the
> 'spooky region of fringe lunacy' (sorry, Ted) that is the world of 'The
> Ampheads'...life for him has and never will, be the same :-(
For us either now that he's here ;-P
Look what you've done to me, Both Of You!! ::-))
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everybody
Don't want a racer, Yet lol . Being a complete novice, is there a web sight,
i could go to that would take me step by step ,through the practical way of
converting a car into Ev .In my case a lumina apv 1990, kerb weight of 3500
lbs, front wheel drive. With round trips of approx 28 miles at approx 45 mph,
caring 7 passengers . Are there any charts that would give me a clue, too what
size motor to lb weight, to drag and subsequent axillary items i would need. If
there is such a place, could someone point me in the right direction, so i
could understand at least half of the questions posted through my email, just
practical sound common sense pictures and grammar a complete novice could grasp
please feel free to air your comments
Thank you Dave
Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Tim,
I'm a bit of a novice, but will give this a shot first. At higher voltages,
arcing is likely to take place. Also, my car is a Civic, in which case the
drivetrain rotates opposite of most cars. At higher speeds and with a constant
arcing, you get decreased brush life, a high pitched squeal, and less
efficiency. All three are solved by advancing (or retarding, depending on the
rotation of the crankshaft) one's brushes.
I describe the process on my website, but the point is that it's easy, thanks
to Advanced DC's motor design.
peace,
Tim Gamber wrote:
I've been on the list a while now and have heard alot, but i still don't
understand what advancing a brush on a motor does for you?
_________________________________________________________________
http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!420
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On 3/29/07, Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
First
Paul is not that foolish.
Paul is very situational aware of charging.
I'm glad, but there's plenty of "newbies" on this list, always, who
may be starting with bad-boy or other non-isolated chargers, and not
know the risks they are dealing with.
And he *did* ask the question.
My experience is the kid my not even feel a thing....
There has to be a fault
He has to be standing in water
And he has to touch a part of the car that is attached to the Fault.
So he'll be perfectly safe unless he's touching the door handle and
it's raining? Obviously that set of events could never happen.
Come on, if you leave the car un-grounded you basically have *no*
levels of protection if there is a fault. On 240V it can mean
someone's life, so let's be aware of that.
BUT... you should ground your Chassis.. just in case.
Well, I'm happy that we got that straightened out.
Bet the PHEV kits are ground to Hell and back.
That's good, and I hope you have taken additional safety measures as well.
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Hi all
Just seen on ebay some motors crated new ford ment for f 150 i think
Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Oh come on Lee, the guy was asking about a relay to c=onnect the test
leads of a multimeter. Unless he is using it to directly measure current
(which I'm pretty sure he is NOT doing), he isn't going to draw anywhere
near enough current to cause arcs or corona effects.
> From: Peter VanDerWal
>> Since you aren't going to be pulling any significant current
>> through it, you can use a relay whose contacts are rated for
>> AC voltage, i.e. a common 120-240V AC rated relay with say a
>> 12V dc coil.
>
> This can work; but you'll have to test it to be sure. AC rated relays and
> switches depend on the AC line voltage to cross zero 120 times a second
> (at 60 Hz). Any arc that was established when the contacts opened will
> automatically extinguish at each zero crossing.
>
> On DC, the arc won't extinguish unless the open contact's spacing is large
> enough. How large depends on the DC voltage.
>
> You'd be surprised how little current it takes to sustain an arc. Also, if
> the contacts are very close together and have pointed edges, you will get
> corona and leakage current even if no arc is present. So, it is quite
> possible to have a contact that is only switching 1 milliamp leak or arc
> with a high DC voltage present.
>
> *Test* whatever switch or relay you are using to be *sure* it is truly
> opening when switching DC.
>
> Or better yet, use a switch or relay that has DC ratings. Then you know it
> has been tested, and passed.
>
>
> --
> "Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
> doing it." -- Chinese proverb
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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The bummer is that they are only half the rated capacity of the 18650's
used in ACP cars and many laptops. Hopefully they will have the power
of their larger diameter counterparts.
Mike
--- Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.rcmaterial.com/pdfs/APR18650M1.pdf
>
> Interesting news, for those that are interested in A123 lithium iron
> phosphate cells.
>
> - Tony
>
>
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Hey Tim
To be honest this is something that I'm not 100% on
myself but let me see if I can explain it as I see it.
The brushes sit on the comm which polorizes the
armature coils. These react with the field coils to
produce rotation. When the motor is being run under
OEM loads and voltages a nuetral setting alignes the
brushes with the field magnetics. As voltage
increases the field magnetics warp out of line. Now
the brushes are not lined up and arcing begins as
RPM's and voltage increase.
Although advancing the brushes brings the armature
coils back in line with the field coils for when it's
warped there is a trade off. Nuetral is better for
starting off, so if the brushes are advanced they are
"starting up" unlined but line up once the field's
magnetics warp over. This causes a drop in startup
torque and increase in current draw but increases
performance and reduces arcing and flashover as the
brushes become lined up with the warped coils.
This is why I'm so eager to get data on some of my
ajustable brush rings. Marko loves his set "way"
advanced while Jeff Shanab would prefer a little less.
In a perfect world I'd love to see a little servo
motor being able to time it kind of like an ICE engine
is timed on the fly.
Alas, I've never seen it close up and in real time.
John and Tim tried to get me to climb into the hood
area while they race but I decided to pass on that
invite 8^P I do know that Otmar has some old video of
when he tortured some ADC motors but they're probably
still packed in some box from the move 8^(
Anyway I hope this helps. I'd actually love a "big
brains" view on this myself 8^)
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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Yes, I agree with you. EVs and EV racing have a long history. I myself have
been here since '99, opening my E-mail every day hoping to find a part X of X
from Wayland.... ;-)
And yes there have been some great points along the way.
But, I think(hope) I am seeing '07 as the year when all of the little things
came together and "it" happened. The public woke up and discovered that EVs are
as viable and fun as we've been saying all along, and not just science fair
projects for the "white and nerdy". (absolutely no disrespect intended to
anyone)
I acknowledge that there has been an enormous effort from many many pioneers
along the way to get us to this point and those of us "in the know" will always
be mindful of their efforts to get us here
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Jim Husted
> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 9:55 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: May C&D Article on White Zombie
>
>
> --- Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I'll have to respectfully somewhat disagree with
>> LMAO Jim.
>>
>> I'm hoping we all look back at '07 as "the
>> beginning"!!
>
> Hey there Timmy ol boy 8^)
> Seen you coming out of lurkland to chuck a couple
> rocks my way ;^P It almost appears you've been
> looking for a litle attention? Just wanted you to
> know I got my eye on you mister go ahead and break the
> damn motors man! 8^o
>
> I'm not sure about you but I started my EV walk 2
> years ago. Others out there have been screaming in
> the darkness for decades. I'd love to hear some
> stories of back when it started from the guys who were
> doing it. Heck for that matter I just got in a 1910
> Westinghouse motor from Myles that's a blast from the
> past of wayback when it first started 8^)
>
> I know what you mean as far as a shift in the paradigm
> but I for one have no illusions of being there when it
> started. I do howEVer enjoy carrying the torch for a
> short while though 8^)
>
> Had fun
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> ________
> We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
> (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
> http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
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Hey Wayland
Man I knew calling your motor ugly would motivate you
to posting and pulling that damn thing! Come to think
of it as I remember it, it took me calling them ugly
for you to pull them the first time, ROF!
--- John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello to All,
>
> Hey....a little credit my way, guys :-) You know, I
> 'did' have just a
> little input on this project :-)
First off I've never taken full credit for anything
I've done to date! Secondly I'm very quick to say the
reason I'm doing great things is I work with great
people! Thirdly I was mearly answering a field
related question and not giving a Jim / John blow by
blow playback of the creation of the damn beast 8^P
> From Jim:
>
> >Actually doing Johns motor was all about shortening
> the motor then giving him a shaft
> >that would satisfy that nice big 9" rear end he has
> 8^o
> >Anyway no magic just two 8's on a big Spartan stick
> >8^) well maybe a couple of tricks
>
> OK, where to start? Let's see what Jimmy boy left
> out here... Yes, the
> basic idea was to shorten the two motors so that the
> new Siamesed motors
> could fit into the little 1200's engine bay better
> and not be propped up
> at the frame rail in front with its output end
> pointing at an angle
> towards the ground, and yes, the idea was also to
> shave off about 25
> lbs. of weight (includes jettisoning the big metal
> twin motor mount).
> But there's soooooo much more:
I agree lots of stuff to address as for the reason
"we" did this, although you forgot the main reason of
them just being ugly as a wart on a witches nose 8^o
> (1) There's the little detail of the replacing the
> factory single runs
> of 6 gauge brush interconnect wires, with dual 4
> gauge brush
> interconnect leads that I insisted on for each brush
> (helps carry far
> more amperage around to all the brushes).
This is in fact an area where a lot of the upgrading
was worked on, no aurgument here. Which I stated.
> (2) The little detail of hand-timed motor
> sections...perfected by Tim
> and I with ammeters, voltmeters, and a mechanical
> tachometer.
>
> (3) The little detail of eye-balling and using
> straight edges to
> perfectly align the armature laminations and combars
> with one another.
>
> (4) The little detail of trimming away the sharp
> brush rigging corners
> I've seen start and sustain arcing in past racing
> motors.
>
> (5) The little detail of insisting on glyptal-ing
> (fights against high
> voltage arc-over) the interior of the brush end
> bells, the brush rigging
> supports, the filed coils at possible arc jump-off
> points, and other
> areas inside the motor that as a seasoned electric
> drag racer, I knew
> to be arc-starting points.
>
> (6) The little detail of insisting on the center fan
> housing being
> relieved of more metal to better transfer cooling
> air to both motor
> sections.
>
> (7) The little detail of insisting that the motor
> shaft be machined into
> the Spicer spec'ed splines to slide right into the
> Spicer 400 U-joint.
>
> (8) The little detail of keeping the exact turn
> count of those stock
> fields to preserve the torque I knew my car needed
> to succeed as a
> direct drive set up.
>
> (9) The little detail of the co-designing with Marko
> Mongillo, those
> beefy (and very much needed) center mounted external
> motor-bracing cross
> member steel support brackets
Again well noted, I was there remember? For those who
were not there, this really came down to Wayland
throwing a tantrum like a 4 year old in the toy isle
of a store screaming he wanted a new toy! As a new
parent and unable to buy the brat a new Motoroid 2000
I did the best I could and gave him a box and some
tape 8^P
>
> Rod Hower wrote:
>
> >Holly crap Batman,
> >That really impresses a control designer when
> looking
> >at the abuse the poor Zilla puts up with. We're
> >talking about switching batteries into a dead short
> >more or less with only 12 turns when launching from
> >the lightpole!
> >
>
> Now you know why serious EV drag racers all use a
> Zilla! No one, and I
> mean 'no one' makes a stouter, more reliable
> controller.
>
> >I'm also really impressed that Jim's first motor
> has
> >taken the abuse of 'we blow things up so you don't
> >have to!
> >
>
> Yes, I am too. Jim's workmanship is quite simply,
> the best I've ever
> seen. But I'll take some of the credit my way for
> arguing my points into
> Jim's former 'low speed whir-around-the-warehouse
> forklift world only'
> electric motor brain, to where he now understands
> the huge difference
> between 36 volts at 500 amps vs hundreds of volts at
> 2000 amps, the
> difference between neutral timing and advanced
> timing, and the
> difference between continuous ratings and a drag
> racer's 'overload
> ratings'! Along the way, we've become cherished
> friends, and that's
> worth more than all the tweaked copper in the world.
>
> I warned Jim, that by hooking up with me, he'd be
> dragged into the
> 'spooky region of fringe lunacy' (sorry, Ted) that
> is the world of 'The
> Ampheads'...life for him has and never will, be the
> same :-(
>
> See Ya....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
>
> "We blow things up, so you don't have to!"
Again I fully admit and note that I am starting a new
path. To be honest it's been quite a ride! In hopes
that I can give John further credit and to keep his
easily bruised bannana like EGO from browning I run
lots of questions through him as I continue to bump my
nose along my EV journey 8^)
You know John this reminds me of that song "you're so
vain", "I bet you think this post is about you, don't
you, dont you!" 8^P Now shut up and go pull that
damn motor. If your nice maybe I'll include some of
the other things I've learned from working with some
of the other racers as well as just old fashioned
trial and error 8^o
Man I knew this would bring your hell fire 8^P FWIW
although they are "your" motors I hope you don't mind
me thinking that they're "my" motors as well 8^)
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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