EV Digest 6620
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: newb PNW
by DAVID BARWICK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: YouTube Video of Killacycle Record Run
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Quick PFC20 question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Arc Flash & Ark Blast Warning !!!!!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) What happened to Ed Ang's (VReg mfg) email? (Bouncing now.)
by robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) 600A for 40 seconds - battery recommendations?
by "Scott Littledike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Charger manual scanned
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Electric Go Cart Beats Gas Competition in Italy
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: 600A for 40 seconds - battery recommendations?
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Charger/Battery Recommedations (Was:Killing my Batteries Thread)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) RE: newb PNW
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 600A for 40 seconds - battery recommendations?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) plug in prius conversion
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: What happened to Ed Ang's (VReg mfg) email? (Bouncing now.)
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: [EV] Charger/Battery Recommedations (Was:Killing my Batteries Thread)
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Battery or motor current best to monitor
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) For Our Ev'rs on the water....
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: For Our Ev'rs on the water....
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: For Our Ev'rs on the water....
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Sydney AEVA meeting -- next Tuesday
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) curtis potbox question
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Killacycle sets new record time of 8.16 seconds no April fools
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: What happened to Ed Ang's (VReg mfg) email? (Bouncing now.)
by robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all
Any ev builders in lancashire England willing to give me some hands on
knowledge
Regards Dave
"Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi, I am currently converting a Datsun KingCab for someone - it might be
worth your while to come visit. I'm in the Hubbard area, about 30 miles
south of Portland.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stand Culp"
To:
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 9:45 PM
Subject: newb PNW
> Hi,
> I've been doing some research on ICE-2-EV conversion. If there was
something
> that I could purchase already put together for a decent price I would. But
> seeing as anything freeway capable is in the $30k neighborhood, I think
I'm
> gonna get dirty instead.
> I'm in the Portland Oregon area. I'd like to get in contact with some
people
> in this area with some experience in this.
> I'm thinking along the lines of a light truck S-10 would work nicely.
> I have some past machining and welding skills, but lonnnnng ago, and
> presently limited to hand tools and a small single car garage.
> I'm also interested in getting local and state govt on board for providing
> incentives to people adopting BEVs.
> California and Texas are the only states I've found so far that are
> aggressive in promoting Electric Vehicles widely.
>
> Thanks for any direction you can provide
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.23/740 - Release Date: 3/30/2007
1:15 PM
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry I should of started a new thread when I mentioned that.
Ryan: "What's different besides the amps? "
The weight :-)
In my current design, I would have 12 A123 cells spot welded to copper
strips or bars. There are 12 such sub-modules inside a single
module(group 24 battery size). I am trying to figure out the optimum
size for the bars and internal interconnects and this becomes an amps vs
weight balancing act. Copper is heavy!
Ryan "How many battery amps is White Zombie currently pulling? "
At last I heard they had two strings each able to put out 1500 amps
but had them turned down to 1000 each.
I guess the real question is do I target racers specifically or not. I
could always come out with a racing version I guess.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I posted the link over on the Kawasaki Triples Board (confession: I have two of
those) and the comments are positive. There's a lot of drag guys who will be
very impressed as they're running 1/2 second slower with heavily reworked
2-stroke engines. 7's in '07!
Congrats to Bill and Team.
----- Original Message ----
From: Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2007 2:27:57 AM
Subject: YouTube Video of Killacycle Record Run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDHJNG2PngQ
I don't have the time slips in front of me, but from
memory the previous run was 8.22 seconds at 155 MPH.
We only put back approx. 2.5 amp hours into the pack,
or about 750 watt-hours. That's less than 15% of the
pack capacity.
- Steven Ciciora
(I bet Bill Dube' regrets telling Dennis Berube that
if we go faster than 8.32 then Bill will kiss Dennis'
bare naked butt...)
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Being a manufacturer of EV chargers, I must produce a charger
that is safe. This means meeting the current electrical codes,
specifically the NEC, section 625, that applies to EV charging
requirements.
After spending considerable time poring over the NEC, certain
requirements on EV charging present themselves:
1) The charging of an EV shall be GFCI protected, just as any
outdoor receptacle shall be GFCI protected... In the EV
application, a GFCI will shut off power if a leakage is
detected between the propulsion system and vehicle chassis,
because...
2) The vehicle chassis shall be grounded. Period. NO exception.
With the vehicle chassis at ground potential, there can be no
voltage between the vehicle chassis and earth, thus no chance
of shock between chassis and ground.
3) The EV charging system considers the EV as a continuous load,
so the utility charging circuit must be sized at 125% of
continuous rating. Or, from another perspective, if the
charging system is rated at 100% (example, 20 amp breaker,
20 amp wiring, 20 amp receptacle) only 80% may be drawn.
(16 amps in this example.)
This is an excellent summary, Russ. I agree with it completely.
But it should be noted that NEC 625 is not a very good standard. It was
written specifically for the recent auto company produced EVs, to
deliberately *exclude* all other EV charging technologies. It is
impossible to fully comply with it without patented technologies that
are unavailable to anyone but the auto companies (UL listed EV charger,
special cords, connectors, etc.)
One has to rely on other sections of the NEC to glean an understanding
of what the real requirements should be. I think you have done a good
job of summarizing these requirements. In essence, an EV is just like
any other piece of electrical equipment that will be operated outdoors
by normal people.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I hope anyone who has a pack voltage over 120 volts or is thinking of
adding batteries that will increase their existing voltage to exceed
120 volts is aware of an extreme danger of an arc flash explosion.
It is good to warn people about the dangers from high-powered electric
arcs. They are outside most people's experience, and the media (movies
etc.) are certainly no help at preparing people for the reality of such
an event.
We should however be careful not to exaggerate the danger. The
information you quoted has a sensationalist slant, and presents a
drastic, worst-case view of the situation. I'd guess it was written to
scare electrical workers into being more careful, much like tales of the
bogyman told to children.
1. The danger in an electric arc comes from the *power* being dissipated
in it. Power is volts x amps. So, there is no particular voltage or
current limit -- a 36 volt 1000 amp arc is just as dangerous as a
360 volt 100 amp arc because both are releasing the same energy.
So, 120v should not be treated as any special threshold, below
which you can ignore the problem and above which it become deadly.
Any pack voltage can be dangerous.
2. The voltage is usually known; but the current is not. The document
you quoted was written for AC power line arcs. Depending on where
the arc occurs, the current could be quite low (limited by a 15 amp
circuit breaker), or tremendous (10,000 amps from an overhead power
line).
In EVs, the batteries are capable of providing 1000's of amps into
a short circuit. So, we need fuses (or wires deliberately sized to
act as fuses) located so there is one in any possible path where a
short may occur, or that the voltage is too low to sustain an arc.
For example, I have six 12v batteries in each of my two battery
boxes. Each box has a 400a fuse in the jumper between the center
batteries, so any shorts in the box of 36v or more have a fuse in
series.
If copper is in the arc the expansion rate is 40,000 to 1 when the
arc vaporizes copper.
This is a meaningless number. The amount of copper that gets vaporized
is usually quite small. The *other* materials and gases in the area
provide almost all the expansion material.
An arc between lead terminals is actually worse, because lead has a
lower boiling point. But again, the amount of lead (or copper) vaporized
depends on how much power is being dissipated in the arc.
The real danger from an arc is usually the incidental damage that it
causes. It melts and burns any insulation in the area. It starts fires.
The rapidly expanding gas around the arc can throw bits of molten metal
and other materials for quite a distance. The gases produced by the arc
can be quite toxic. And of course, all this is all the more deadly if
you are holding the wrench that caused the arc in the first place!
So, let's be very careful; but not mindlessly paranoid. Insulate the
handles of any tools used around batteries and their wiring. Provide
plenty of insulation between connections. Use materials that won't burn
or contribute to the danger of an arc. Keep one hand in your pocket when
working around "live" circuits.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Where can I buy Edward Ang's voltage regulators? His email
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
is bouncing back. Should I ask the Sparraw group?
---------------------------------
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi there,
Im looking for a battery back that can deliver 600A for 40 - 45 seconds (at
which point, it will be recharged). I need a peak motor voltage of at least
78V, and the whole battery pack must weigh less than 155lbs.
I was hoping to be able to use Lead acids, although some people have
previously said it cant be done? With lead acids, if i assume a 50% voltage
sag at 600A, i need a 156V system - I was looking at either the SVR 14Ah
AGM's, Hawker 16EP, or possibly something from aerobatteries? Im not sure if
any of these batteries could handle that current for 45 seconds, please
could someone advise?
A123 cells have been previously suggested - but are 6 times the price of
lead acids! I am also unsure if you could buy an off the shelf charger for
these (like say, a PFC20), and what sort of voltage sag you get with
lithiums?
Any help would be much appreciated!!
Best Regards
Scott Littledike
_________________________________________________________________
Solve the Conspiracy and win fantastic prizes.
http://www.theconspiracygame.co.uk/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I scanned the manual (in engrish, of course) of the charger I bought
off eBay form a taiwanese company.
The jpgs are in http://www.nn.cl/Autos/EV/Charger/
The graph on the last page of the manual seems to imply the charger cuts
out at a fixed amount of time, not a fixed voltage so it will only charge
100ah and stop. The text says it stops at a fixed end voltage, so I wrote the
seller for a clarification but don't expect a good answer as he may only be
a reseller/rebrander and not the maker of the charger.
Anyway it looks like a good charger for a very small setup. two of them
should work for a 96v system (which is whay I intend to upgrade to
later) and at US$100 plus shipping it was a low risk. It weights around
3 kilos packaged.
--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://ev.nn.cl |
| Yo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is information posted by Massimo from Florence, Italy on the EVUK List.
On March 18th a 48 volt Lithium powered go cart won a race against 125 cc
gas carts in a 21 lap race for the first time ever in Italy. This may be in
the world as well. Anyone else no different? Here is the You Tube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH46dHCis04&eurl= EVs are definitely staking
out their territory in the world this year. 2007, the year of the EV!
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You could use aluminum for your busbars to save weight, copper has 3.2
times the density of aluminum but only yield a 40% reduction in
resistivity.
Also, depending on your busbar layout, not all parts of the busbar may
see the full current so there may be room for optimization there.
The weight :-)
In my current design, I would have 12 A123 cells spot welded to copper
strips or bars. There are 12 such sub-modules inside a single
module(group 24 battery size). I am trying to figure out the optimum
size for the bars and internal interconnects and this becomes an amps vs
weight balancing act. Copper is heavy!
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You need to look into using NiCad cells for this kind of abuse.
I'd string together a bunch of SubC cells used for R/C racing, the
NiCads are almost obsolete now, but think you can still buy them, well
yes they still list them,
http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/main.asp?sid=735969&pgid=loosecells&chem=NICD
see the CP2400SCR, 30-amp discharge per cell, so 20 in parallel is
600amps, 60 in series if 72volts, that is 1200 batteries, $4500, you
assemble them.
You'll have to do the calcs to see if enough to give you 78v @ 600amp
will meet your weight requirement, well ok, I'll waste more time, they
say 2oz per cell, 1200*2 / 16 = 150lbs.
Jack
Scott Littledike wrote:
Hi there,
Im looking for a battery back that can deliver 600A for 40 - 45 seconds
(at which point, it will be recharged). I need a peak motor voltage of
at least 78V, and the whole battery pack must weigh less than 155lbs.
I was hoping to be able to use Lead acids, although some people have
previously said it cant be done? With lead acids, if i assume a 50%
voltage sag at 600A, i need a 156V system - I was looking at either the
SVR 14Ah AGM's, Hawker 16EP, or possibly something from aerobatteries?
Im not sure if any of these batteries could handle that current for 45
seconds, please could someone advise?
A123 cells have been previously suggested - but are 6 times the price of
lead acids! I am also unsure if you could buy an off the shelf charger
for these (like say, a PFC20), and what sort of voltage sag you get with
lithiums?
Any help would be much appreciated!!
Best Regards
Scott Littledike
_________________________________________________________________
Solve the Conspiracy and win fantastic prizes.
http://www.theconspiracygame.co.uk/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello again,
Thanks to Roland, David and all who responded to my "Killing my batteries"
thread. A wealth of information...thanks!
I am now convinced that my best bet is to modify my car to accept new
batteries and a new charger. I want to stay at or above the 120 VDC Pack
Voltage and
have an on-board charger. I would like to keep the batteries at 12 Volt each,
but can entertain going to 8 or 6 volts each. I would like to get rid of the
(overcharging) ZIVAN NG3 charger, but still need an on-board, automatic
charger. I would like to have an adjustable charger for situations where I
might find
a 120 VAC outlet or a 220 VAC outlet. It would be nice to have an adjustable
output too, in case I wanted to add batteries later to bump up the pack
voltage. Having the Zivan reprogrammed each time was a costly pain.
My car is here: <_www.austinev.org/evalbum/887_
(http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/887) >
Again, my commute is 6 miles one way, with charging done at work and at home.
I carefully monitor the water levels in my batteries, so Floodies are
preferred. Not going for speed so much as long-term durability of the
batteries. May
I ask...What ideal Lead-Acid Battery and Charger combo do you folks recommend
and why?
THANKS!
David
Ratliffgrp AT AOL DOT COM
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
My son and I are starting in on a 1970 Datsun pickup that we hope to get
done this summer. We are across the river in Vancouver Washington. There
are lots of EV resources in the Portland area. Here are links to three of
the bigger ones.
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/
http://www.oeva.org/
http://www.metricmind.com/
All three of these will get you in touch with local, helpful people. Also
you might look at visiting PIR on some of the nights that John is racing
(after he gets his motor put back together). There is an $8 spectator fee.
Even if you are not into racing, there is always a crowd of EV enthusiasts
around. Often we bring our own, non racing EVs. I usually ride my electric
motorcycle down.
damon
From: "Stand Culp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: newb PNW
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 20:45:20 -0800
Hi,
I've been doing some research on ICE-2-EV conversion. If there was
something
that I could purchase already put together for a decent price I would. But
seeing as anything freeway capable is in the $30k neighborhood, I think I'm
gonna get dirty instead.
I'm in the Portland Oregon area. I'd like to get in contact with some
people
in this area with some experience in this.
I'm thinking along the lines of a light truck S-10 would work nicely.
I have some past machining and welding skills, but lonnnnng ago, and
presently limited to hand tools and a small single car garage.
I'm also interested in getting local and state govt on board for providing
incentives to people adopting BEVs.
California and Texas are the only states I've found so far that are
aggressive in promoting Electric Vehicles widely.
Thanks for any direction you can provide
_________________________________________________________________
5.5%* 30 year fixed mortgage rate. Good credit refinance. Up to 5 free
quotes - *Terms
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2a5d&s=4056&p=5117&disc=y&vers=910
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Scott,
My first battery set back in 1976 was 180 volts of 300 amp cobalt lead acid
cells that had the internal links tie together at the top and bottom. The
external links were welded on and good for 1000 amp current.
I drove to work with this proto type EV which was call Transformer I, which
I took a run of 80 mph so I can roller coast up a steep 2 mile hill slowing
down to 60 mph, while the voltage drop only to 165 volts at 600 amp.
So I would say you need a very high amp hour battery with very good battery
links to be able to pull 600 amps for that long.
Today, my Trojan 260 AH batteries cannot do this run up this hill without
without melting a post off. You either need brass battery pads which you can
special order or weld the batteries together with large lead links.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Littledike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:36 AM
Subject: 600A for 40 seconds - battery recommendations?
> Hi there,
>
> Im looking for a battery back that can deliver 600A for 40 - 45 seconds
> (at
> which point, it will be recharged). I need a peak motor voltage of at
> least
> 78V, and the whole battery pack must weigh less than 155lbs.
>
> I was hoping to be able to use Lead acids, although some people have
> previously said it cant be done? With lead acids, if i assume a 50%
> voltage
> sag at 600A, i need a 156V system - I was looking at either the SVR 14Ah
> AGM's, Hawker 16EP, or possibly something from aerobatteries? Im not sure
> if
> any of these batteries could handle that current for 45 seconds, please
> could someone advise?
>
> A123 cells have been previously suggested - but are 6 times the price of
> lead acids! I am also unsure if you could buy an off the shelf charger for
> these (like say, a PFC20), and what sort of voltage sag you get with
> lithiums?
>
> Any help would be much appreciated!!
>
> Best Regards
>
> Scott Littledike
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Solve the Conspiracy and win fantastic prizes.
> http://www.theconspiracygame.co.uk/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got this e mail the other day ,,, is there a kit now being sold that sombody
with ev experance could install to make the prius a plug in .
steve clunn ...
Hello there,
I spoke to you this morning about finding a location in Florida or close to
Florida that performs the conversion of a Toyota Prius to a PHEV with the
lithium-ion batteries. I received your link from a link off of the Hymotion.
com website. I would greatly appreciate any feedback as to where this type of
conversion can be done. Thanks
Robert DeMelo
University of South Florida
Seminole Electric Transmission Group Co-Op
Tampa, FL
(813) 739-1357
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Apr 1, 2007, at 10:59 AM, robert mat wrote:
Where can I buy Edward Ang's voltage regulators? His email
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
is bouncing back. Should I ask the Sparraw group?
Try checking the Contacts page on the company website:
<http://www.airlabcorp.com/>
There are several addresses listed.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://www.gdunge.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Having the Zivan reprogrammed each time was a costly pain.
>
is the only way to reprogram a Zivan still to return it to the factory
or dealer?
no one has hacked it yet? :)
--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://ev.nn.cl |
| Yo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why not monitor both battery current and motor current? When
I converted my Ranger pickup I installed shunts for motor and
battery current and a switch to select which shunt was connected
to the meter. Both battery and motor current are useful information.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 8:26 PM
Subject: Battery or motor current best to monitor
I am going to order up my meter shunts and am trying to get an opinion on
whether it is best to look at motor current or battery current?
I have a 1000 amp meter and am getting ready to order a shunt for it and
another one for the 12volt side.
Any thoughts on this?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was trying to find a 10hp three phase motor on ebay and ran accross
this gem for our fellow ev'rs on the water.
ebay # 230111851996
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmmm, only $6,500
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 3:14 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: For Our Ev'rs on the water....
I was trying to find a 10hp three phase motor on ebay and ran accross this
gem for our fellow ev'rs on the water.
ebay # 230111851996
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, thanks Jeff, the seller really does think its a gem, a rare one.
I think the 10hp electric outboard for my sailboat cost me about $400 in
parts. Jeff, I've got a 10hp 3-phase brushless motor I can sell for
1/10th that price, only $650, gotta be a bargain at that price right?
Jack
Cor van de Water wrote:
Hmmmm, only $6,500
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 3:14 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: For Our Ev'rs on the water....
I was trying to find a 10hp three phase motor on ebay and ran accross this
gem for our fellow ev'rs on the water.
ebay # 230111851996
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is a BAD idea!!!! Aluminum is very easily corroded, and won't last very
long in proximity to lead-acid batteries, and the connections will need
frequent cleaning.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
> You could use aluminum for your busbars to save weight, copper has 3.2
> times the density of aluminum but only yield a 40% reduction in
> resistivity.
>
> Also, depending on your busbar layout, not all parts of the busbar may
> see the full current so there may be room for optimization there.
>
>
>
> >
> > The weight :-)
> >
> > In my current design, I would have 12 A123 cells spot welded to copper
> > strips or bars. There are 12 such sub-modules inside a single
> > module(group 24 battery size). I am trying to figure out the optimum
> > size for the bars and internal interconnects and this becomes an amps vs
> > weight balancing act. Copper is heavy!
> --
> www.electric-lemon.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/742 - Release Date: 4/1/2007
8:49 PM
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello all,
quick reminder for the next Sydney branch AEVA meeting. As agreed at the last
meeting, please note the change of venue.
Date: Tuesday, 3rd April
Time: 7:30PM (for 8:00PM start)
Ettamogah Pub - upstairs meeting room
CNR Windsor and Merriville Rds, Kellyville
Cheers,
Claudio
Sydney AEVA - for Electric Vehicle enthusiasts in Sydney, Australia
http://sydneyaeva.googlepages.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well yeah and it's quite prone to galvanic corrosion when mated to
dissimilar metals, the exact effect depends on what you mate it with.
Aluminum is also prone to stress fracture. A busbar made thin enough
and in some sort of arcing arrangement so it can flex to ensure it won't
break off the battery terminals from the relative motion between
batteries in an EV. But aluminum generally does not like to flex at all
and will build up cracks until it breaks. The results vary depending on
the grade of aluminum as well as its shape.
Danny
Joseph H. Strubhar wrote:
This is a BAD idea!!!! Aluminum is very easily corroded, and won't last very
long in proximity to lead-acid batteries, and the connections will need
frequent cleaning.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
You could use aluminum for your busbars to save weight, copper has 3.2
times the density of aluminum but only yield a 40% reduction in
resistivity.
Also, depending on your busbar layout, not all parts of the busbar may
see the full current so there may be room for optimization there.
The weight :-)
In my current design, I would have 12 A123 cells spot welded to copper
strips or bars. There are 12 such sub-modules inside a single
module(group 24 battery size). I am trying to figure out the optimum
size for the bars and internal interconnects and this becomes an amps vs
weight balancing act. Copper is heavy!
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/742 - Release Date: 4/1/2007
8:49 PM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As I was planning the location of my potbox this afternoon I hooked
it up to my multimeter to test the operation.
I was surprised that it showed 1 or 2 ohms is this normal?
As I moved the lever it ranged up to the 5kohm I expected.
Thanks,
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Remember we're talking about Jeff Shanab building monoblocs full of
lithium cells and trying to save weight by avoiding copper busbars
inside. Presumably there won't be any lead-acid batteries fuming
nearby, and presumably he'll be able to design the inside of the
monobloc to prevent too much flexing of the aluminum.
This leaves galvanic corrosion, which hopefully can be minimized or
eliminated with careful material choices.
On Apr 1, 2007, at 6:03 PM, Danny Miller wrote:
Well yeah and it's quite prone to galvanic corrosion when mated to
dissimilar metals, the exact effect depends on what you mate it with.
Aluminum is also prone to stress fracture. A busbar made thin enough
and in some sort of arcing arrangement so it can flex to ensure it
won't break off the battery terminals from the relative motion between
batteries in an EV. But aluminum generally does not like to flex at
all and will build up cracks until it breaks. The results vary
depending on the grade of aluminum as well as its shape.
Danny
Joseph H. Strubhar wrote:
This is a BAD idea!!!! Aluminum is very easily corroded, and won't
last very
long in proximity to lead-acid batteries, and the connections will
need
frequent cleaning.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Gabrielsson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
You could use aluminum for your busbars to save weight, copper has
3.2
times the density of aluminum but only yield a 40% reduction in
resistivity.
Also, depending on your busbar layout, not all parts of the busbar
may
see the full current so there may be room for optimization there.
The weight :-)
In my current design, I would have 12 A123 cells spot welded to
copper
strips or bars. There are 12 such sub-modules inside a single
module(group 24 battery size). I am trying to figure out the optimum
size for the bars and internal interconnects and this becomes an
amps vs
weight balancing act. Copper is heavy!
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/742 - Release Date:
4/1/2007
8:49 PM
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://www.gdunge.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey All
Bill and gang just called to let me know the boys are
having a well deserved beer having just set the bar to
8.16 @ 156 MPH. They were able to get two more runs
in so Bills got 2 time slips. I'm sure they'll get us
some good stories and the facts after some recoup 8^)
On a funny side note "as" I'm trying to get the info
on todays runs I let my puppy escape as I sought a
quieter area to talk. The puppy bolted after a cat!
I'm running after it and take a hard fall on a rock
8^o I got a knot on my calf the size of a purple
golfball right now (and a skinned knee 8^(
Anyway in case Bill was wondering why I was so out of
breath when we talked, it was only half because of the
new record, LMAO <ouch>
Congrats to Bill and the gang! I don't know what they
set the amps to but Bill says he's got some more work
and data for me to check out 8^o Probably looks a
little like my leg right now.
Cya all
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I tried the "sales" email. That bounced, too.
Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Apr 1, 2007, at 10:59 AM, robert mat wrote:
> Where can I buy Edward Ang's voltage regulators? His email
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> is bouncing back. Should I ask the Sparraw group?
Try checking the Contacts page on the company website:
There are several addresses listed.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
---------------------------------
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We are talking about lithium batteries here...
On 4/1/07, Joseph H. Strubhar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This is a BAD idea!!!! Aluminum is very easily corroded, and won't last very
long in proximity to lead-acid batteries, and the connections will need
frequent cleaning.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
> You could use aluminum for your busbars to save weight, copper has 3.2
> times the density of aluminum but only yield a 40% reduction in
> resistivity.
>
> Also, depending on your busbar layout, not all parts of the busbar may
> see the full current so there may be room for optimization there.
>
>
>
> >
> > The weight :-)
> >
> > In my current design, I would have 12 A123 cells spot welded to copper
> > strips or bars. There are 12 such sub-modules inside a single
> > module(group 24 battery size). I am trying to figure out the optimum
> > size for the bars and internal interconnects and this becomes an amps vs
> > weight balancing act. Copper is heavy!
> --
> www.electric-lemon.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/742 - Release Date: 4/1/2007
8:49 PM
>
>
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We nickel plate our aluminum bus bars at work and we don't have
corrosion problems. I believe the A123 cells also have nickel plated
tabs on them so it should be a good match.
On 4/1/07, Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Remember we're talking about Jeff Shanab building monoblocs full of
lithium cells and trying to save weight by avoiding copper busbars
inside. Presumably there won't be any lead-acid batteries fuming
nearby, and presumably he'll be able to design the inside of the
monobloc to prevent too much flexing of the aluminum.
This leaves galvanic corrosion, which hopefully can be minimized or
eliminated with careful material choices.
On Apr 1, 2007, at 6:03 PM, Danny Miller wrote:
> Well yeah and it's quite prone to galvanic corrosion when mated to
> dissimilar metals, the exact effect depends on what you mate it with.
>
> Aluminum is also prone to stress fracture. A busbar made thin enough
> and in some sort of arcing arrangement so it can flex to ensure it
> won't break off the battery terminals from the relative motion between
> batteries in an EV. But aluminum generally does not like to flex at
> all and will build up cracks until it breaks. The results vary
> depending on the grade of aluminum as well as its shape.
>
> Danny
>
> Joseph H. Strubhar wrote:
>
>> This is a BAD idea!!!! Aluminum is very easily corroded, and won't
>> last very
>> long in proximity to lead-acid batteries, and the connections will
>> need
>> frequent cleaning.
>>
>> Joseph H. Strubhar
>>
>> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Gabrielsson"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
>>
>>
>>
>>> You could use aluminum for your busbars to save weight, copper has
>>> 3.2
>>> times the density of aluminum but only yield a 40% reduction in
>>> resistivity.
>>>
>>> Also, depending on your busbar layout, not all parts of the busbar
>>> may
>>> see the full current so there may be room for optimization there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The weight :-)
>>>>
>>>> In my current design, I would have 12 A123 cells spot welded to
>>>> copper
>>>> strips or bars. There are 12 such sub-modules inside a single
>>>> module(group 24 battery size). I am trying to figure out the optimum
>>>> size for the bars and internal interconnects and this becomes an
>>>> amps vs
>>>> weight balancing act. Copper is heavy!
>>>>
>>> --
>>> www.electric-lemon.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/742 - Release Date:
>>> 4/1/2007
>>>
>> 8:49 PM
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://www.gdunge.com/
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
