EV Digest 6621
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: curtis potbox question
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: What happened to Ed Ang's (VReg mfg) email? (Bouncing now.)
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: plug in prius conversion
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Battery or motor current best to monitor
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: YouTube Video of Killacycle Record Run
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Charger/Battery Recommedations (Was:Killing my Batteries Thread)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Charger manual scanned
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Arcing in DC Motors
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: For Our Ev'rs on the water....
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Knock-off Equipment User Manual (was RE: Charger manual scanned)
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: plug in prius conversion
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: For Our Ev'rs on the water....
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Arcing in DC Motors
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Introducing EVer from Brisbane, Australia
by Brian Hay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: curtis potbox question
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Arc Flash & Ark Blast Warning !!!!!
by Tom Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) electricity from ordinary air spiced with small amounts of hydrogen
and offers significant potential
by Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) 600 A for 40 sec
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Arcing in DC Motors
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: city car brushes
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: YouTube Video of Killacycle Record Run
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Both ideas are being considered. The bars are to be tapered since the
furthest from the interconnect space the less batteries in the circuit.
I am planning on using the battery tab welder and am pretty sure I can
weld to copper, but welding nickel to aluminum ??? i am not so sure
about that.
I also don't want to bolt aluminum to copper for the sub module connectors.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oops, I could of swore that was $650.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow, a question I can answer:
Potbox is not where marijuana is kept. It stands for
variable potentiometer. Specifically, it is
constructed such that at one end, there is lots of
carbon, which resists electricity, and at the other
one, very little/no carbon.
This explains the variation you are getting, and is
quite normal. Hope this helps.
Now with that in mind, can you tell which would
represent "full on", versus "full off"?
(;-p
--- John O'Connor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As I was planning the location of my potbox this
> afternoon I hooked
> it up to my multimeter to test the operation.
>
> I was surprised that it showed 1 or 2 ohms is this
> normal?
>
> As I moved the lever it ranged up to the 5kohm I
> expected.
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry, I don't know what's going on. His email server seems to be up
and running sendmail. Try the other addresses?
If I'm using the search function correctly, the date of Ed's last post
to the Sparrow EV list was on Jan 17, 2007.
An earlier post gives his phone number as (510)673-7602.
I'd try the Sparrow list if these don't work out.
Can you figure out why your messages bounced? If not send me a copy
offlist and I'll take a peek at it.
HTH,
Doug
On Apr 1, 2007, at 8:07 PM, robert mat wrote:
I tried the "sales" email. That bounced, too.
Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Apr 1, 2007, at 10:59 AM, robert mat wrote:
Where can I buy Edward Ang's voltage regulators? His email
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
is bouncing back. Should I ask the Sparraw group?
Try checking the Contacts page on the company website:
There are several addresses listed.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
---------------------------------
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://www.gdunge.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a complete listserv for Felix Kramer and
calcars.org.
They do the PHEV Priuses, for which you'll find an
entry in Wikipedia.
It's about 12K, and there are issues such as voiding
certain aspects of the Toyota warranty, as well as
logistics; how to train, mass-producing the
kits/capital to do so, etc.
Hope that helps,
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I got this e mail the other day ,,, is there a kit
> now being sold that sombody with ev experance could
> install to make the prius a plug in .
> steve clunn ...
>
> Hello there,
>
> I spoke to you this morning about finding a location
> in Florida or close to
> Florida that performs the conversion of a Toyota
> Prius to a PHEV with the
> lithium-ion batteries. I received your link from a
> link off of the Hymotion.
> com website. I would greatly appreciate any feedback
> as to where this type of
> conversion can be done. Thanks
>
> Robert DeMelo
> University of South Florida
> Seminole Electric Transmission Group Co-Op
> Tampa, FL
> (813) 739-1357
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I find battery current best to monitor, chiefly b/c I
have floodies and an e-meter. This means that I
shouldn't be pulling much over 250-300A for too long
so as not to reverse cells via excessive voltage sag.
If I had AGMs, I could reasonably pull 2-3 times
that, so I'd not care as much about battery current.
I'd also suggest that if you have both DCDC and aux
batt., monitor the 12V aux, as a cold winter can
reduce your charge, and the DCDC may not be able to
replenish it. Most people overlook aux batt. status,
and it's one of the reasons I'd like to go to a
Belktronix DCDC someday; it puts out more current...
--- Tom Shay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Why not monitor both battery current and motor
> current? When
> I converted my Ranger pickup I installed shunts for
> motor and
> battery current and a switch to select which shunt
> was connected
> to the meter. Both battery and motor current are
> useful information.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 8:26 PM
> Subject: Battery or motor current best to monitor
>
>
> > I am going to order up my meter shunts and am
> trying to get an opinion on
> > whether it is best to look at motor current or
> battery current?
> >
> > I have a 1000 amp meter and am getting ready to
> order a shunt for it and
> > another one for the 12volt side.
> >
> > Any thoughts on this?
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry, I guess I missed that - but I still wouldn't use them. By the time
you nickel-plate them, you won't be saving much weight, right?
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
> We are talking about lithium batteries here...
>
>
> On 4/1/07, Joseph H. Strubhar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > This is a BAD idea!!!! Aluminum is very easily corroded, and won't last
very
> > long in proximity to lead-acid batteries, and the connections will need
> > frequent cleaning.
> >
> > Joseph H. Strubhar
> >
> > E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Web: www.gremcoinc.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:12 AM
> > Subject: Re: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
> >
> >
> > > You could use aluminum for your busbars to save weight, copper has 3.2
> > > times the density of aluminum but only yield a 40% reduction in
> > > resistivity.
> > >
> > > Also, depending on your busbar layout, not all parts of the busbar may
> > > see the full current so there may be room for optimization there.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The weight :-)
> > > >
> > > > In my current design, I would have 12 A123 cells spot welded to
copper
> > > > strips or bars. There are 12 such sub-modules inside a single
> > > > module(group 24 battery size). I am trying to figure out the optimum
> > > > size for the bars and internal interconnects and this becomes an
amps vs
> > > > weight balancing act. Copper is heavy!
> > > --
> > > www.electric-lemon.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/742 - Release Date:
4/1/2007
> > 8:49 PM
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> www.electric-lemon.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/742 - Release Date: 4/1/2007
8:49 PM
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw a flash of smoke come off the bike just before
everyone started yelling about the displayed time/speed.
Does this mean that the series/parallel switch happens
at the finish line, or was there an issue with the motor
(it was about at the same point where the Nov 06 fireball
happened)
That too, could have been caused by a series/parallel
switch and a spinning wheel (remember that Zombie run
where the take-off spun the wheels, so Hairball decided
to do the S/P switch a few feet off the line, while the
batteries had not sagged enough, resulting in High Voltage
fireworks ?)
Nice results!
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steven Ciciora
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 11:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: YouTube Video of Killacycle Record Run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDHJNG2PngQ
I don't have the time slips in front of me, but from memory the previous run
was 8.22 seconds at 155 MPH.
We only put back approx. 2.5 amp hours into the pack, or about 750
watt-hours. That's less than 15% of the pack capacity.
- Steven Ciciora
(I bet Bill Dube' regrets telling Dennis Berube that if we go faster than
8.32 then Bill will kiss Dennis'
bare naked butt...)
____________________________________________________________________________
________
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile.
Get started.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Plating is so thin it can hardly be measured in weight.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joseph H. Strubhar
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 9:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
Sorry, I guess I missed that - but I still wouldn't use them. By the time
you nickel-plate them, you won't be saving much weight, right?
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
> We are talking about lithium batteries here...
>
>
> On 4/1/07, Joseph H. Strubhar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > This is a BAD idea!!!! Aluminum is very easily corroded, and won't last
very
> > long in proximity to lead-acid batteries, and the connections will need
> > frequent cleaning.
> >
> > Joseph H. Strubhar
> >
> > E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Web: www.gremcoinc.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:12 AM
> > Subject: Re: Hypothetical Battery weight : was: Motor recommendations
> >
> >
> > > You could use aluminum for your busbars to save weight, copper has 3.2
> > > times the density of aluminum but only yield a 40% reduction in
> > > resistivity.
> > >
> > > Also, depending on your busbar layout, not all parts of the busbar may
> > > see the full current so there may be room for optimization there.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The weight :-)
> > > >
> > > > In my current design, I would have 12 A123 cells spot welded to
copper
> > > > strips or bars. There are 12 such sub-modules inside a single
> > > > module(group 24 battery size). I am trying to figure out the optimum
> > > > size for the bars and internal interconnects and this becomes an
amps vs
> > > > weight balancing act. Copper is heavy!
> > > --
> > > www.electric-lemon.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/742 - Release Date:
4/1/2007
> > 8:49 PM
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> www.electric-lemon.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/742 - Release Date: 4/1/2007
8:49 PM
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1 Apr 2007 at 15:02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> What ideal Lead-Acid Battery and Charger combo do you
> folks recommend and why? THANKS!
Nicads! Try the BB-600s! ;-)
Well, OK, there are LOTS of connections to make. And availability on the
cells is catch-as-catch-can. But if I were converting today I'd think hard
about this.
Or, since you want to stay at 120 volts, you could use 8 volt golf car
batteries. They're a compromise between the 6v units and the 12v marine
batteries (closer to the 6v as you might guess). They won't last as long as
6v golf car batteries, and won't deliver as much current happily, but
they'll last MUCH longer than 12v marine batteries. They should do OK at
your 300 amp loads.
For the charger, I'd look into using two Delta-Q chargers. Roger, can you
supply two 60v nominal chargers? Maybe even a single 120 volt model? I
seem to recall that they can do DV/DT.
Wasn't there some discussion a while back about reverse-engineering the
Zivan and figuring out how to crack its controller to make it relax a bit?
Has anyone heard how that went?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1 Apr 2007 at 13:20, Eduardo Kaftanski wrote:
> The graph on the last page of the manual seems to imply the charger cuts out
> at
> a fixed amount of time, not a fixed voltage so it will only charge 100ah and
> stop.
Those might be sample times. Or not. Either way, it looks like it never
shuts off, but leaves the battery on float forever (unless you pull the
mains plug).
It's hard to be sure. This seems to be one of the problems when dealing
with cheap Asian manufacturers. The manuals are often obscure. If the
manufacturer has simply copied a similar product, which isn't unusual for
China and Taiwan, they may not even know how it works and thus be unable to
answer ANY question. I'm not saying that these folks did that; it's just
one possibility. The manuals are often carelessly translated, too,
sometimes to amusing effect, as we see in this one. "Despite the pole error
protection, always make sure that the cables are properly poled."
The manual says that the wire cross sections required are shown "in the
following diagram," but there is no following diagram except for the charge
profile graph.
I note also that the manual advises that "Battery with a cell closure must
not be charged, as there is otherwise the danger of explosion through the
occurrence of electrolytic gas." Presumably that means "don't charge valve
regulated ('sealed') batteries."
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee,
I just had an idea. In a contactor when they want to break an arc which
from what I inderstand is when the contacts start to pull apart the voltage
"wants" to keep flowing so it forms a type of connectionthrought th
atmoshere. As I understand it the magnetic blow outs in contactors are
magnets that push or pull the arc away from the contacts to cause it to
break off it's connection. Also as I understand it the further away the
contacts are the harder it is to maintain an arc. If I am somewhat correct
here I was wondeing if it might be feasible to use rare earth magnets in the
end bells off racing DC motors to help squelch the arc caused by commutating
high voltages. Just a bizarre thought out of my mind, out of my mind. Please
let me know what you thing and if there may be something to this theory then
please keep it between us until I have time to experiment with it.
Roderick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The thing I'm trying to understand is how it's 10.8KW at 24V.. thats 450A
o_O wouldn't you need two 4/0 cables for that much?
> Yeah, thanks Jeff, the seller really does think its a gem, a rare one.
> I think the 10hp electric outboard for my sailboat cost me about $400 in
> parts. Jeff, I've got a 10hp 3-phase brushless motor I can sell for
> 1/10th that price, only $650, gotta be a bargain at that price right?
> Jack
>
> Cor van de Water wrote:
>> Hmmmm, only $6,500
>>
>>
>> Cor van de Water
>> Systems Architect
>> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
>> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
>> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
>> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
>> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
>> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 3:14 PM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Subject: For Our Ev'rs on the water....
>>
>> I was trying to find a 10hp three phase motor on ebay and ran accross
>> this
>> gem for our fellow ev'rs on the water.
>> ebay # 230111851996
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I always get a kick out of reading those manuals. Really they're more like
suggested guidlines. This one could also mean "don't
charge a battery with a reversed or shorted cell". Hey there may be a market
for that **electrolytic gas** one day. Right next
to the Browns Gas and Super-No-Lead ;-)
> David Roden wrote:
> I note also that the manual advises that "Battery with a cell closure must
> not be charged, as there is otherwise the danger of explosion through the
> occurrence of electrolytic gas." Presumably that means "don't charge valve
> regulated ('sealed') batteries."
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
10:45 P.M., EDT
Hi Steve, others interested in Prius PHEV kits,
Not now, but I expect to be offering the "V-Boost" kit in about 3 - 4
months. We are stuffing the first 10 boards of the PHEV-B1 Rev. 1 boost
converter/controller now and there are a couple of custom-order components
due by early May. Plus there is still some programming, metal work, and
testing to complete. There has been quite a considerable $ investment in
parts to-date, especially with the minimum order quantities on some of them!
Briefly, the concept behind this system is the use of a lower voltage/higher
Amp-hr added battery pack, typically 96V to 120V, and a microcontroller
adjusted boost converter that can feed the desired regulated and
programmable, voltage and current, to the Prius NiMH battery (typically
about 245V and 40A limit settings). The set output is maintained over the
range of Voltage/SOC of the added pack as it discharges, until it is time to
cut back or cut-off, to protect the battery pack. This PHEV implementation
makes for fewer cells/batteries, fewer battery cables, safer lower voltage,
and more charger choices. The original Prius NiMH battery is kept in place
and in use, for less installation work and modifications from the stock
Prius, and probably less risk with the Toyota warrantee, and it is easier to
reverse, to put things back to the original state later, if desired.
Incidentally, there will be other EV uses for the boost
converter/controller, such as charging from a lower voltage solar panel
array or dump pack, and adding capacity/range extending using a lower
voltage battery pack, than the vehicle main battery pack, and/or mixing
battery technologies.
I am using 6 Valence UEV-18XP lithium ion batteries for a 190 pound
battery pack, nominal 115V, 65AHr (under EV conditions - not the 20 hour
rate), in my 2005 Prius. While this choice of lithium ion batteries looks
to me to be ideal for good range at low weight, anyone could start off with
lower cost AGM lead-acid and upgrade later if they want, to keep the initial
cost low. I have designed and made battery regulator boards for AGM
batteries, buildable for 6, 8, or 12V, that can be available to supply with
kits for AGM lead-acid battery systems. 11 of these regulators are
currently in use/testing in my Skoda mini-pickup, which has the 8V golf cart
battery size sealed AGM batteries, making an 88V system.
The standard kit is planned as a one-piece, pre-wired module (except
batteries and BMS that vary according to buyer's choice) that bolts behind
the Prius NiMH battery using existing bolt locations. This module will
contain a 100A circuit breaker, the main and pre-charge contactors, the
PHEV-B1 boost converter/controller, and a high speed fuse. This arrangement
will minimize installation work and keeps cabling short. It will work with
a small remote display / user-interface unit that allows
seeing/setting/changing V-Boost parameters, and a CAN-view unit
(not-included - purchased separately).
I estimate an installer cost of about $2800 U.S. for the "V-Boost" kit
without batteries, and around $3900 including 75 A-hr (20 hr rating) AGM
batteries and regulators. A Delta-Q charger could be available for about
$500 -$600. but I will let Roger comment on that if he is able to.
That is how things look at present. I will provide an update in about 2
months.
Best Regards,
Doug
Billetronique, Enr.
Montreal
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:42 PM
Subject: plug in prius conversion
I got this e mail the other day ,,, is there a kit now being sold that
sombody with ev experance could install to make the prius a plug in .
steve clunn ...
Snip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think that would be way overkill.
Those numbers come from permanently loaded wiring, but if
there is any attention to cooling the wiring and especially
if it is not permanently loaded to the max, then much thinner
cabling can be used.
Depending on the temp the cable is used at, its length,
the isolation material and other factors, such as if it is
run in conduit, but I think that about single 2/0 AWG should
be able to do the job, possibly even 1/0 AWG.
I have 2 AWG cabling for some of the battery runs in my EV.
it will pull an occasional 200A but steady state is more like
50A. And that usually shorter than half an hour.
(though larger cable has lower resistance, so less power wasted)
At the website:
http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
you will see that they recommend 0 AWG for half this current, so
with two parallel you could run this motor if it is permanently
loaded to the max.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 10:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: For Our Ev'rs on the water....
The thing I'm trying to understand is how it's 10.8KW at 24V.. thats 450A
o_O wouldn't you need two 4/0 cables for that much?
> Yeah, thanks Jeff, the seller really does think its a gem, a rare one.
> I think the 10hp electric outboard for my sailboat cost me about $400
> in parts. Jeff, I've got a 10hp 3-phase brushless motor I can sell for
> 1/10th that price, only $650, gotta be a bargain at that price right?
> Jack
>
> Cor van de Water wrote:
>> Hmmmm, only $6,500
>>
>>
>> Cor van de Water
>> Systems Architect
>> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
>> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
>> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
>> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
>> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
>> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 3:14 PM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Subject: For Our Ev'rs on the water....
>>
>> I was trying to find a 10hp three phase motor on ebay and ran accross
>> this gem for our fellow ev'rs on the water.
>> ebay # 230111851996
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ooops - you let the cat out...
I have had that happen as well - reply and it goes to the list iso to the
person. Normally only "Reply all" copies everyone, but on a list things are
different...
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roderick Wilde
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 9:52 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Arcing in DC Motors
Hi Lee,
I just had an idea. In a contactor when they want to break an arc which
from what I inderstand is when the contacts start to pull apart the voltage
"wants" to keep flowing so it forms a type of connectionthrought th
atmoshere. As I understand it the magnetic blow outs in contactors are
magnets that push or pull the arc away from the contacts to cause it to
break off it's connection. Also as I understand it the further away the
contacts are the harder it is to maintain an arc. If I am somewhat correct
here I was wondeing if it might be feasible to use rare earth magnets in the
end bells off racing DC motors to help squelch the arc caused by commutating
high voltages. Just a bizarre thought out of my mind, out of my mind. Please
let me know what you thing and if there may be something to this theory then
please keep it between us until I have time to experiment with it.
Roderick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
I subscribed to the EV digest a few years ago and have been lurking ever
since, but now I'm in a position to start my own EV conversion project
soon so I thought I'd reintroduce myself and monitor and contribute to
the list a bit more actively.
I'm based in Brisbane, Australia and my aim is to convert a late 1990's
single-cab, tray-back utility as cost effectively as possible. I'm not
looking for great performance or range - local driving only.
I don't yet have a donor vehicle so any advice on Australian models and
readily available conversion components would be much appreciated.
Also, if there are any local EVers on this list I'd love to hear from you.
One question: I've heard of the new Firefly lead acid battery
technology. Is this likely to be available for use in EVs anytime soon
or am I better off jumping in now with locally available lead acid
batteries and swapping the pack for a Firefly pack when the initial pack
dies?
Regards,
Brian.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It will fault out(high pot) at around 70 ohms I think. It has to be good to
work well. You have a good pot. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 5:57 PM
Subject: curtis potbox question
> As I was planning the location of my potbox this afternoon I hooked
> it up to my multimeter to test the operation.
>
> I was surprised that it showed 1 or 2 ohms is this normal?
>
> As I moved the lever it ranged up to the 5kohm I expected.
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 2007-03-31 at 03:11 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Yesterday I had my first and hope last flash arc experience. It was such an
> astounding event I Google to learn more about what happened. Words do not
> even come close to describing it. It was about as loud as a large m-60
> firecracker, blinding bright, and a very very hot expanding explosion.
People have poo-pooed your warning, saying that couldn't happen or an ev
situation couldn't be as bad as your references suggest.
Would you care to describe the results of your incident and what caused
it?
How many and what sort of batteries? What sort of conductors? What
vaporised? How far were you thrown by the explosion? Did it happen
inside? If so, is the building still standing?
I've been listening here for nearly a year, and I've heard of a couple
of different shorted optima incidents. I'm quite willing to believe a
whole pack of batteries would make a highly unpleasant short circuit.
Can you describe what you would do differently to prevent the initial
short circuit? If the initial short circuit had occurred anyway, would
fuses or circuit breakers arrest the explosion?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cars Running on Electricity from Atmospheric Hydrogen
Category: SOFTPEDIA NEWS :: Science :: Nano-Biotechnology
Bacteria powered biofuel cell
By: Lucian Dorneanu, Science Editor
Hydrogen Car
Enlarge picture
Researchers at the Oxford University have developed a pioneering
“biofuel cell” that produces electricity from ordinary air spiced with
small amounts of hydrogen and offers significant potential as
an inexpensive and renewable alternative to the costly platinum-based
fuel cells that have dominated discussion about the “hydrogen economy”
of the future.
Hydrogen fuel-cell technology sounds almost too good to be true. You
combine cheap and plentiful hydrogen and oxygen gas, the fuel cell
generates electricity and the by-product is simply water. But it’s a
little more involved.
The key is a proton exchange membrane, or PEM, containing platinum. The
platinum acts as a catalyst that separates electrons from the hydrogen
gas atoms. The free electrons are gathered as current and the positively
charged hydrogen ions pass through the membrane where they readily
combine with oxygen atoms to form water. But if the hydrogen gas
contains impurities, such as water vapor or carbon monoxide, it can
damage the fuel cell’s separation membrane, dropping efficiency or
stopping the process altogether.
Another disadvantage is the fact that as a precious metal, platinum is
in short supply, raising questions about the sustainability of
platinum-based fuel cell technology. Platinum is more costly than gold,
with recent prices topping $1,000 per ounce
Pure hydrogen is also hard to come by, so the team built the biofuel
cell with hydrogenases — enzymes from naturally occurring bacteria that
use or oxidize hydrogen in their metabolism.
The cell consists of two electrodes coated with the enzymes placed
inside a container of ordinary air with 3 percent added hydrogen and
uses enzymes from Ralstonia metallidurans (R. metallidurans), an ancient
bacterium believed to have been one of the first forms of life on Earth.
It evolved 2.5 billion years ago, when there was no oxygen in Earth’s
atmosphere, and survived by metabolizing hydrogen.
Fraser Armstrong, Ph.D. at the Oxford University, pointed out that
naturally occurring hydrogenase enzymes can be produced at lower cost,
with carbon-monoxide poisoning not being a problem. Since the
hydrogenases are chemically selective and tolerant, they work in
mixtures of hydrogen and oxygen, avoiding the need for expensive
fuel-separation membranes required in other types of fuel cells.
Hydrogenases also work at about the same rate as platinum-based
catalysts, but in the current version of the cell the only disadvantage
is the fact that the enzyme is not attached tightly to the electrode and
the cell runs for only about two days.
Now, the researchers are investigating the use of enzymes from other
organisms for more practical results that could be implemented in future
car manufacturing processes.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try Hawker D cells (lead acid). They have a 400 A short circuit current. Two
strings might be enough to get your 600 A for less than a minute.
They are 2.5 AH each. Probably get 5-10% of that with a 1 minute discharge.
If it was 100 V / 5 AH, That's 500 Watt hours. Multiply by 0.1. That's 50
Watt hours usable.
They can be bought for about $8 / ea.
I haven't tried this, but you could get 12 and experiment with a 12 V / 5 AH
battery.
It says they are 1 lb, but that must be shipping weight. I have 18 of them,
and I don't think they are any where near 1 lb. By comparison, my NiMH F cells
are 0.5 lb ea. They are taller.
You could also use one very big capacitor bank!
Steve
---------------------------------
It's here! Your new message!
Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Arcing in DC Motors
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 21:51:42 -0700
Hi Lee,
I just had an idea. In a contactor when they want to break an arc which
from what I inderstand is when the contacts start to pull apart the voltage
"wants" to keep flowing so it forms a type of connectionthrought th
atmoshere. As I understand it the magnetic blow outs in contactors are
magnets that push or pull the arc away from the contacts to cause it to
break off it's connection. Also as I understand it the further away the
contacts are the harder it is to maintain an arc. If I am somewhat correct
here I was wondeing if it might be feasible to use rare earth magnets in
the end bells off racing DC motors to help squelch the arc caused by
commutating high voltages. Just a bizarre thought out of my mind, out of my
mind. Please let me know what you thing and if there may be something to
this theory then please keep it between us until I have time to experiment
with it.
Roderick
Rod - It's an interesting idea. but I think the cat's out of the bag.
Can you support the magnets with non-conducting material? it might reduce
the chance that you'll end up with arcs to the magnets. Maybe some ceramic
material that can take the relatively high temperatures.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Live Search Maps find all the local information you need, right when you
need it. http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag2&FORM=MGAC01
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Hey Steve
>
> Were the two bad brushes 90 or 180 degrees?
> Jim
I believe they where 180 ,, not 100% sure ,,,
Steve Clunn
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >
> > I got a city car to work on , it runs but the motor
> > was getting hot ,, I looked at the brushes and two
> > where just falling apart in the holders . the holder
> > was holding the cracked peices together .. com
> > looked good , no sigh of a lifted com bar . I
> > replaced with some golf cart motor brushes that
> > looked the same size , thing runs about the same ,
> > but cooler . what would make the brushes do this ,
> > the other two looked good .. I noticed that the
> > bursh holder was a little lose ,, like maybe from
> > brunning backing
> > I found myself likeing this little ev the more I
> > drove it and after setting up a new go pebble ...
> > steve clunn
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
> in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Cor
Yep that was a little motor arc and puff of smoke,
least it wasn't the supernova plasma flash like the
November run 8^)
This is the first time the bikes been run series /
parallel (I Believe). It happens before that smoke
patch happened and wasn't the cause.
I'll need to get all the info together both from
motors and the guys as to EVerything that when't down
this trip (lots of screaming on the phone)(all good
mind you). At 1200 amps the motors were doing awesome
but then that doesn't break records. Okay it does but
it doesn't crush them 8^) nor would it have gotten
them into the 7's. No they didn't get there but they
got really close 8^)
As for these racer guys if they were in the 7's they'd
be pushing for the 6's (it's never enough) 8^)
Anyway no "big" blowouts so I'm hoping I'll find just
minor damage and cleanup. I'll pat their heads and
tell them they are good boys and send them off to race
again 8^) Sounds like we're gonna try a bit more
advance and see if we can't keep Puff the Hi-Torque
Dragon locked inside his house and running on his
hampster wheel 8^o Damn fire breathing dragons!
As for me I'm really pumped, they got the record and I
didn't see Zues throwing any major lightning bolts
along the track 8^)
I'll keep you all posted as we move along after they
recoup and send me up the motors.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I saw a flash of smoke come off the bike just before
> everyone started yelling about the displayed
> time/speed.
>
> Does this mean that the series/parallel switch
> happens
> at the finish line, or was there an issue with the
> motor
> (it was about at the same point where the Nov 06
> fireball
> happened)
> That too, could have been caused by a
> series/parallel
> switch and a spinning wheel (remember that Zombie
> run
> where the take-off spun the wheels, so Hairball
> decided
> to do the S/P switch a few feet off the line, while
> the
> batteries had not sagged enough, resulting in High
> Voltage
> fireworks ?)
> Nice results!
> Cor van de Water
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
--- End Message ---
