EV Digest 6625
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Quick PFC20 question
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Motor temp
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: S-10 Conversion Transmission
by Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Looking for Electric Mower Suggestions for 1 acre
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Flippin' Good Fun... A cationary tale
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Pack Balance?
by Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Motor temp
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Motor temp
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Motor temp
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) OT - One more Step towards an EV World
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Yahoo group:ev-list-archive, was: NO ATTACHMENTS please!
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Yahoo group:ev-list-archive, was: NO ATTACHMENTS please!
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Insurance
by "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: S-10 Conversion Transmission
by Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Basic rectification question
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: S-10 Conversion Transmission
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) New X-Prize for 100MPGe car design
by "Mark Dodrill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: S-10 Conversion Transmission
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: S-10 Conversion Transmission
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/2/07, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
> 2) The vehicle chassis shall be grounded. Period. NO exception.
... With the exception of any vehicle with fiberglass or plastic body.
Victor,
Why do you say that? Most fibreglass bodied vehicles I'm familiar
with (such as my old EV) have exposed metalwork all over the place
which is electrically connected to the chassis: door handles, ignition
barrel, wheels, wiper arms.. The chassis itself can be touched if you
reach under the car. This should all be grounded.
Russ's statement stands - the only exception I can think of might be
in the case where there is complete off-board isolation (i.e. there is
no ground referenced supply to the car at all) - Magnacharger for
example.
Don't you agree?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day Jim, Jeff M, Jeff S, Cor, Danny and everyone else following this thread.
At 09:23 PM 2/04/07 -0700, Jim wrote:
Hey all
In general I don't see the heat issues I see in the
lift world on EV motors. <snip>
I mean unless you just want to know what
temp it is running 8^)
That is pretty much what the college want to do, know its' temp.
<snip>
A quick note to James and Jeff, the bearings will be a
good place to sensor, they are probably one of the
hottest points.
Good information, thanks.
My take on the "sensor on rotor" bit is that anything big enough to contain
a transmitter of any kind will end up really difficult to mount without
making the rotor out of balance. IR sensing is a good way to go, as the
amount of brush dust will be so small as to have a negligible effect on the
readings. Pointed at the windings it would be hard to get a true value,
though, as the emissivity of the different materials is all over the place,
and what is the emissivity of electrical varnish anyway? So it would need
to be a 'run until hot, stop, read and compare to a probe' scenario.
Emissivity for the bright copper of the comm when clean is easily looked
up, but as it develops its' patina it will move the emissivity value. I've
been looking more at the rotor and I think I'll give away the idea of a
sensor on the rotor. The only way with this motor would be either a
mass-balanced transmitting thing or a pair of slip rings, each of which has
its' own issues.
I think I'll give the Maritime College a task that when it is on the dyno
they have to 'run, measure conditions, stop, read the rotor temp' in order
to create a look-up table of implied rotor temp from the non-rotor values.
I pulled the fields from the motor tonight, hey, Jim, Q) what does it mean
when there is brush dust *behind* the pole shoe?
A) It means it was at one of the local motor shops!
Seriously, there was brush dust on the *back* of one of the pole shoes
where it should be hard up against the body tube!
The body tube is just big enough to go over the three-jaw chuck in my
lathe, put the "reverse" jaw set in and got good hold of it. Yup, won't
clear the traveler. I cut a 16" piece off some 1-1/4" square bar, cut down
one end to go in one of the holders, shaped the other end and
silver-soldered an insert to it. Started cleaning up the outside of the
body tube, first two cuts were mostly taking paint (went and found a
dust-mask).
Since this is going into a boat, I'll cold-galv paint the tube first, then
primer and top-coat. That's about it for tonight. I'll report more as it
progresses.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think it makes much difference whether you use the 4 speed or
the 5 speed. I have the 5 speed in my S-10 and it works very well to
just use 2nd and 3rd. I'll use 1st or 4th every once in a while, but
5th gear might as well not even be there.
Rich
On Mon, 2007-04-02 at 13:44 -0700, Daniel Eyk wrote:
> This has probably been covered, but is there any
> advantage of the 5-speed transmission over the
> 4-speed in this convesion? As I understand it, you
> only use about 3 speeds and maybe 4th on the freeway?
> Is that correct? I will be using an ADC 9", DCP 600
> controller and a 144 volt pack to start with. I will
> have freeway travel for about half the trip each way
> as well as climbing from Oregon across the Columbia
> River to Washington for about 2-3 miles one way. I
> have both 4 and 5 speed available to use.
> Thanks, Dan Eyk
>
> Daniel Eyk
> Vancouver, Wa.
>
> Electric S-10 project
> E-15 project
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
> with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2/28/07, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Find out who repairs riding mowers in your area and see if they have a
dead one they want to unload.
I purchased a riding mower sans engine for $25 recently from a repair
shop. He even went through his stock of used tires to find me a good set.
Then you can mount 4 GC batteries onboard and have plenty of mowing
power/range. No trailer and a large cutting swath. You might set it up
like an old Elektrac, one motor for propulsion and a separate motor for
the deck, or use a large single motor for both.
Inspired by this and remembering Steve Clunn's mower conversion tale
from a couple of years ago, I just bought a "cub cadet" ride-on mower
that came up locally on ebay, with the idea of converting it to
electric power for my parents' property, which is on a hill and takes
an age to cut with a push mower.
The new machine has a 20HP Briggs and Stratton twin, with a thrown
rod. It has hydrostatic drive and a 48" rotary deck, which is belt
driven, with an electric clutch.
Reading about Steve's conversion, he found out that the hydrostatic
transmission, although flexible, eats a huge amount of power. So I
was really looking for a smaller, older mower with a normal gear box
and differential, but I'll see if I can make this one work - I have
some golf cart motors or a spare Prestolite 6.7" that can be pressed
into service, and a variety of part-worn AGM batteries and even some
old Saft STM5-100 water cooled nicads, although it would be a bit of a
travesty to put them on a mower. I'll try without a controller to
start with and add a golf cart controller if necessary.
I haven't converted anything to electric power for a while so I'm
looking forward to it :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey I just had an idea. It's a bit silly so keep that in mind.
So, here goes: how about adding lateral wheelie bars on each side at the
front? Like the Killacycle and the Maniac Mazda has on the rear to keep them
from flipping over with all that acceleration.
Just a thought...
I do wish a quick and full recovery for both you and your mini El.
Regards,
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: Flippin' Good Fun... A cationary tale
Hey Jim,
Yeah. I was joking a while ago that the City El was perfect for Do-nuts...
Damnit!
;)
I reckon the idiot behind the wheel didn't realise the batteries were a bit
lighter than the old ones and a so the banana had a little less between her
wheels to keep her wheels on the ground!
I want the 70mph model.. Just not there yet. Damn frustrating thing is that I
switched the tires out a few weeks ago for "official City El" tires. I did have
racing Maloyas on. They would have just skidded before tipping. The
Continentals I have on there grip better but don't quite do what they ought in
a sideways fashion (the sidewall collapsed over the wheel, or rather, vice
versa)
The new batteries do the trick but of course the hood is now in need of
replacement. I'm contemplating what sort of top to get. How many cars do you
know that can get changed from convertible to hard top and back by replacing
the ... door? ;)
Thanks for the sympathy etc. Were it tomorrow no-one would have believed me!
Nikki.
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
On Mar 31, 2007, at 4:53 PM, Jim Husted wrote:
> Hey Nikki
>
> Wow what a bummer to read and I'm sure much less fun
> to do 8^(
>
> But come on admit it, you've been checking out the
> race stuff, probably out there practicing your
> autocross moves now weren't you 8^P
>
> BTW maybe you should keep from using arm turn
> signaling while you're out there racing around 8^o
>
> I guess I feel it's better to laugh than to cry.
> I've followed your posts and pics and just wanted to
> let you know people care. Keep up the good work you
> little race fiend. Although maybe the 1/4 mile
> straight thing might be more your taste? 8^o
>
> Also it's funny how sometimes we might think that
> something like getting the wrong batteries (or what
> EVer) sucks! but then we see (later on) that someone
> just might have had our backs covered on that 8^)
>
> Wishing you well
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
> --- nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> HI folks.
>> Well, a few days after the second Mini El in Bristol
>> hit the streets
>> mine is now rather poorly.
>>
>> We went out for a celebratory run this morning and I
>> turned way to
>> tight on a mini roundabout at about 10mph and tipped
>> my lil' three
>> wheeler up onto two.<snip>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________>
> ______________
> Don't pick lemons.
> See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
>
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from
AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My pack consists of 20 6v flooded lead acid batteries. When I do a
check to see if the batteries are staying balanced I find that 19 look
real close like +/- .01v. But there is always this same stray which is
around .05-.10v higher than the norm. I was expecting to see one or two
lag behind and would charge them up but I didn't expect to see one
higher than all the rest. Does this mean anything?
I've tried taking a 6v VW headlight and bleeding off the excess but it
still reads high the next cycle I test. Note: I usually test in the
morning after they've charged up overnight.
Rich
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roland,
I think pavement temperature can reach 140 deg F on hot sunny days. If you
park on the street, your motor may be that hot before you start to drive. That
light go amber often?
Jeff
Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<snip>
My GE motor has thermo switches that are embedded in the field coils between
the fields windings and motor housing. They open at 140 F (not 140 C) and
close at 120 F. They monitor a on dash LED's through a relay, which show
green when below 140 F. and amber when at 140 F. or above.
Roland
---------------------------------
It's here! Your new message!
Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No, it does not get that hot under the motor hood. I also have a Honeywell
thermo air sensors under the hood, Stewart Warner coolent sensors for the
Zilla heat sink and another Stewart Warner sensor bolted to the motor.
Here in Montana, which the EV is never park outside for more than 2 hours,
the maximum temperature I read was 99 degrees F. One day last year for
about 4 hours, the ambient temperature did get to 105 degrees, but I did not
have my EV out in that hot sun.
Now, my ICE does get 140 degrees in the engine bay, because of the engine.
We do not have that really black pavement that other cities have. Here they
press in color stones and rock into the pavement that has a different
temperature effect.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Major" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: Motor temp
> Hi Roland,
>
> I think pavement temperature can reach 140 deg F on hot sunny days. If
> you park on the street, your motor may be that hot before you start to
> drive. That light go amber often?
>
> Jeff
>
> Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> <snip>
> My GE motor has thermo switches that are embedded in the field coils
> between
> the fields windings and motor housing. They open at 140 F (not 140 C) and
> close at 120 F. They monitor a on dash LED's through a relay, which show
> green when below 140 F. and amber when at 140 F. or above.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> It's here! Your new message!
> Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, environments do differ.
I asked another list about temps as we saw our Prius aux battery
fail a little earlier than expected and I had the impression it
may have been due to lack of temp corrected voltage regulation
and someone reported back about his experience in an Arizona city
with temps up to 160 deg in car and under hood.
They always had their battery fail after 2 summers, not only
the Prius aux battery but on every car.
YMMV
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 7:22 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Motor temp
No, it does not get that hot under the motor hood. I also have a Honeywell
thermo air sensors under the hood, Stewart Warner coolent sensors for the
Zilla heat sink and another Stewart Warner sensor bolted to the motor.
Here in Montana, which the EV is never park outside for more than 2 hours,
the maximum temperature I read was 99 degrees F. One day last year for
about 4 hours, the ambient temperature did get to 105 degrees, but I did not
have my EV out in that hot sun.
Now, my ICE does get 140 degrees in the engine bay, because of the engine.
We do not have that really black pavement that other cities have. Here they
press in color stones and rock into the pavement that has a different
temperature effect.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Major" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: Motor temp
> Hi Roland,
>
> I think pavement temperature can reach 140 deg F on hot sunny days. If
> you park on the street, your motor may be that hot before you start to
> drive. That light go amber often?
>
> Jeff
>
> Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> <snip>
> My GE motor has thermo switches that are embedded in the field coils
> between
> the fields windings and motor housing. They open at 140 F (not 140 C) and
> close at 120 F. They monitor a on dash LED's through a relay, which show
> green when below 140 F. and amber when at 140 F. or above.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> It's here! Your new message!
> Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Suprime Court: 5 to 4 in favor of the EPA Having the RIGHT to regulate
CO2 emmissions out of cars.
Well DDduuuhhhhh !!!
( Yah.. I know ..it is only INDIRECTLY related to EVs ..) but it is
like I say... one more step towards an EV World.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I try to open this group, it says to me:
"Sorry, this group is available to members ONLY.
You are not allowed to access this group."
There is also no "Join" button, so it is impossible to
become a member. When searching Yahoo groups, this group
does not even show up....
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 11:20 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: Re: NO ATTACHMENTS please!
Here's a bit of info in case others would like the ability to pick which
post title to open while leaving your inbox untouched:
read posts at http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/ and
you'll never see anything resembling an attachment anyway (there is another
Yahoo EV group, but that's a digest-only version - less real-time). I have
listproc set to no email so I can still post. One drawback is a few authors'
names get listed as "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" (including any of mine). Those who
dislike
Yahoo will be happy to know the public has access to messages.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oops,
I was not yet fully awake.
For some reason Outlook decided I should look at the end of
my message folder, not the top. I was not aware enough to catch it in time.
Sorry,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: Cor van de Water
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 8:16 AM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: Yahoo group:ev-list-archive, was: NO ATTACHMENTS please!
When I try to open this group, it says to me:
"Sorry, this group is available to members ONLY.
You are not allowed to access this group."
There is also no "Join" button, so it is impossible to become a member. When
searching Yahoo groups, this group does not even show up....
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 11:20 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: Re: NO ATTACHMENTS please!
Here's a bit of info in case others would like the ability to pick which
post title to open while leaving your inbox untouched:
read posts at http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/ and
you'll never see anything resembling an attachment anyway (there is another
Yahoo EV group, but that's a digest-only version - less real-time). I have
listproc set to no email so I can still post. One drawback is a few authors'
names get listed as "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" (including any of mine). Those who
dislike
Yahoo will be happy to know the public has access to messages.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm just interested in meeting the insurance requirements for getting
the vehicle licensed,
Minimum levels of financial responsibility are:
$15,000 bodily injury liability for one person and $30,000 for two or
more persons
$10,000 property damage liability
Will this make a difference? The only parts from a gas powered bike are
the wheels and brakes, everything else on the chassis has been
fabricated. me
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Bath
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 5:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Insurance
In many respects, I'd just consider it like any other
EV:
a) Get a stated value policy, so that if a car takes it out, you'll get
the amount of the electronics, not the amount that a Honda ___ gas
burning motorcycle is worth.
b) Few companies will insure a conversion, so options will be limited.
I'm with Allstate.
peace,
--- "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have just about completed a built from scratch electric motorcycle.
> I've been looking for insurance coverage and have not found anything
> specific. Does the list have any recommendations for insuring such a
> vehicle? Thanks, me.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 1:24 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: plug in prius conversion
>
> Hi Rich,
>
> Thanks for your comments on the V-Boost PHEV description.
>
> > Boy this sounds famillure..
> That is what I thought when I saw your first postings on your PHEV
> work about a year ago!
> I had thought of the idea in September 2005. I placed an order in
> early November 05 for an intelligent (microprocessor controlled and
> programmable to follow the learning curve) boost converter based on an
> intelligent buck/boost regulator that was then finishing its
> development phase. This PHEV project was pushed one year behind first
> by a boost converter delivery 8 months later than expected.
> Then it was not
> working/surviving at this application's operating voltage.
> Consequently, I had to start over from scratch to develop this boost
> converter myself in November 2006.
>
> > Keep in mind the usefullness of lead Acid packs.
> it gets folks out
> > there really taking Gas off line and using the
> Grid...
> > If you make the battery pack stand alone.. then
> you just remove the
> > Lead, and swap out to Lithium or..What ever fits
> the customers wishes.
> Agreed. A low entry cost in lead, and flexible operating voltage
> ranges for the boost converter make it easier to change and upgrade
> battery packs for both our systems.
>
> > All the other stuff.. can really add up the cost
> of install. Don't
> > under estimate the costs of The little stuff.
> > It's not little.
> Ain't that the truth!
>
> > Now I have to make 5 interlock boxes.. They are
> the relay boxes that
> flip
> > you from Grid charge to PHEV drive mode. Under
> CAN-view control and
> pass the
> > canview drive signals to the PFC charger. These
> little babies have
> about
> > $600 worth of high reliability contactors in them.
> That's my cost mind
> > you... This is a spendy box.. that basiciy does a
> cable change over
> that
> > takes about 30 seconds if you do it by hand. Ryan
> and I ran all last
> year
> > with the cheap Anderson conenctor version... I
> wish there was a
> easier
> > way to flip 8 condcutors with 40 amps at over 240
> volts DC.
> >
> > Most of this stuff is needed no matter how you do
> your Phev Prius.
> If a separate charger is used instead, then much of the expensive
> stuff and cabling to "flip you from Grid charge to PHEV drive mode" is
> not required, the cabling becomes simpler, and the savings could then
> pay for a charger This would likely be an isolated charger and a
> lower power one, of course, for that dollar amount. The approach that
> provides the best value and results depends on the weighting put on
> the various factors. If fast recharge and multiple charge/discharge
> cycles per day is a priority for a particular customer, then the
> double use of your high-power charger will likely be less expensive
> than using a PFC charger with my V-Boost system.
>
> > I have 3 PiPrius kits inprocess at the moment..
> It's Fun to have a
> parking
> > lot full of 'em.
> I bet! It is great to learn of this in action...
>
> You have my respect and appreciation for all that you are doing in the
> EV and PHEV areas.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Doug
>
> >
> > From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: 2007/04/02 Mon PM 12:32:38 EDT
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Subject: Re: plug in prius conversion
> >
> > Boy this sounds famillure..
> Snip
> >
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD has my '92 sedan, as
well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
________________________________________________________________________
____________
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My experience with a '91 S-10 with the Borg Warner T5 has been that the
input end of the transmission is not very strong and will fail due to
vibration and high sustained input rpm. At least I think that is what
does it in. I started with a clutchless setup with no pilot bushing,
but when I needed to have the transmission rebuilt the second time due
to input shaft and internal bearing failure, I went to a clutch type
conversion with an EVCC adaptor and coupling which has the support of a
pilot bushing. I've had the clutch replaced last year after wearing out
a clutchnet disc and pressure plate. Yes, the springs in the pressure
plate failed. The Clutch Doctor shop took out the non standard sized
bronze pilot bushing and replaced it with a custom pilot bearing to
improve shifting. I'd have the coupling bored to the correct GM
standard pilot bearing OD if I had the coupling out. Why EVCC made the
pilot bushing a non standard size I"ll never know.
I typically run the motor at about 4k rpm while cruising. It is very
difficult to get all the vibration out of the clutch pack at these
rotational speeds. You would be well off to take the entire coupling,
clutch pack, and flywheel to a speed shop and have the works balanced.
They will weld small weights to the clutch cover to get it balanced out.
You can also use the John Wayland/Roderick Wilde procedure of applying
washers under the cutch cover bolts for weights and then spinning the
assembly at low speeds, with a 12v battery, leaving the bolts sligthtly
loose and whacking the clutch cover on the edge with a rubber mallet to
shift it slightly for fine tuning. Be warned, if you try this tie the
motor/clutch/flywheel assembly down tight. You are talking about a lot
of rotating mass and reacting a lot of torque. When you apply the
battery to the motor, the entire assembly will want to jump off the
bench, or roll over on your foot.
The front end bearings in my transmission are failing again. This time,
I think I'll ask the shop if they can substitute some "world class"
(that's like Mustang/camero parts) in the input side to make it more
robust. The T5 transmission, with various cases, is used in many
vehicles. Some, like Mustangs and Cameros, have much beefier parts.
Paul Wallace
'91 Chevy S10 full of very tired SAFT nicads
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the input everyone. I'm trying to come up with a quick and dirty
way of using relatively inexpensive off-the-shelf components to make a "Mt.
Washington" regen system. Just exploring ideas at this point... I would expect
that a 144 or 156 volt pack would be pretty depleted after a climb and would
like a 160-ish volt input. Would have to figure out how much braking power
would be needed to control descent speed...
Thanks for the links, I will explore them.
----- Original Message ----
From: Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 2, 2007 8:27:33 PM
Subject: Re: Basic rectification question
I can't say much about the theory, but in practice, 120 VAC from the wall turns
into about 165 VDC when run through a rectifier. I only used it boosted with a
12 volt transformer (with the transformer voltage controlled by a dimmer
switch) to get the higher voltage I needed for my 156 volt battery pack, but
with the dimmer switch off the DC voltage was in the mid-160's. The power
factor is bad, though.
Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What DC voltage would one see if 120VAC
was rectified i.e. would it approach 170 or flatten out lower? Would adding
sufficient capacitance tend to make it rise? How would I calculate capacitor
rating? I'm wondering if an alternator (120 or possibly 240) could be used as
an inexpensive higher-voltage generator.
Thanks,
Frank
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Paul,
I am temporary using a 92 S-10 clutch and pressure plate that is connected
to the small diameter taper lock motor coupler that is connected to a Warp 9
motor, while waiting for my GE 11 motor to come back from the GE shop.
The problem is that the a small brass pilot bushing is install in to this
small diameter coupler, while the GE coupler is a large flange type with a
large enough hole through the center for the transmission input pilot shaft
to go all the way through and into the standard size brass pilot bushing in
the motor shaft it self.
This gave a better alignment and reduce the vibration to nill. The bushing
in the coupler push the transmission back 5/8 inch of a inch, which I still
had room for adjustments.
I found that you do not have to have the same exact parts to connect the
motor to the drive line. For example:
My Warp 9 is connected to a 1975 race type bell housing design for a 350
cu.in. engine with large flange, change to a small flange to fit a 92 C-10
clutch and pressure plate, connected to a 1975 Sagana 3 speed HD truck
transmission.
GM made a change in the 90's where the later engines will fit the early
engines bell housing, except they went to a small diameter crank flange.
I having a another motor coupler make up by cutting off the early motor
crank flange of a crank shaft, turn it for a taper lock with a large enough
hole for the transmission pilot shaft to go through and insert into the
motor shaft that will replace my existing large flange coupler that has four
large balance set screw place at 90 degrees.
You will find that some electric motor shops do engine and motor balancing.
I had my balance up to 10,000 rpm by a motor shop.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Wallace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: S-10 Conversion Transmission
> My experience with a '91 S-10 with the Borg Warner T5 has been that the
> input end of the transmission is not very strong and will fail due to
> vibration and high sustained input rpm. At least I think that is what
> does it in. I started with a clutchless setup with no pilot bushing,
> but when I needed to have the transmission rebuilt the second time due
> to input shaft and internal bearing failure, I went to a clutch type
> conversion with an EVCC adaptor and coupling which has the support of a
> pilot bushing. I've had the clutch replaced last year after wearing out
> a clutchnet disc and pressure plate. Yes, the springs in the pressure
> plate failed. The Clutch Doctor shop took out the non standard sized
> bronze pilot bushing and replaced it with a custom pilot bearing to
> improve shifting. I'd have the coupling bored to the correct GM
> standard pilot bearing OD if I had the coupling out. Why EVCC made the
> pilot bushing a non standard size I"ll never know.
>
> I typically run the motor at about 4k rpm while cruising. It is very
> difficult to get all the vibration out of the clutch pack at these
> rotational speeds. You would be well off to take the entire coupling,
> clutch pack, and flywheel to a speed shop and have the works balanced.
> They will weld small weights to the clutch cover to get it balanced out.
> You can also use the John Wayland/Roderick Wilde procedure of applying
> washers under the cutch cover bolts for weights and then spinning the
> assembly at low speeds, with a 12v battery, leaving the bolts sligthtly
> loose and whacking the clutch cover on the edge with a rubber mallet to
> shift it slightly for fine tuning. Be warned, if you try this tie the
> motor/clutch/flywheel assembly down tight. You are talking about a lot
> of rotating mass and reacting a lot of torque. When you apply the
> battery to the motor, the entire assembly will want to jump off the
> bench, or roll over on your foot.
>
> The front end bearings in my transmission are failing again. This time,
> I think I'll ask the shop if they can substitute some "world class"
> (that's like Mustang/camero parts) in the input side to make it more
> robust. The T5 transmission, with various cases, is used in many
> vehicles. Some, like Mustangs and Cameros, have much beefier parts.
>
> Paul Wallace
> '91 Chevy S10 full of very tired SAFT nicads
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi there everyone. I just saw on Slashdot.org, that the X-Prize group has
announced a contest to:
"To inspire a new generation of viable, super-efficient vehicles that help
break our addiction to oil and stem the effects of climate change."
They are supporting all types of cars, including EVs, which is cool.
There are detailed rules and requirements on their web site:
http://auto.xprize.org/xprize/index.html
This is a great opportunity for publicity for EVs in general.
Maybe the Freedom EV could qualify/participate?
--
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 2007-04-03 at 08:47 -0700, Paul Wallace wrote:
> My experience with a '91 S-10 with the Borg Warner T5 has been that the
> input end of the transmission is not very strong and will fail due to
For those working with newer S-10s, I'll add to this with what I found
when I was first trying to plan my driveline. On 1996 and newer S-10s,
GM chose the New Venture NV1500 5-speed transmission for basic 2.2L RWD
models and derived vehicles, and though I can no longer find the page
that listed the specs for this transmission (New Venture's website has
been mostly stripped since its purchase by Magna, and Magna's drivetrain
website is worthless), I recall it having an input shaft torque limit of
170 ft-lbs. Supposedly the little 110HP engine doesn't produce much more
than 130 ft-lbs anyway.
For an EV, I'd be concerned that this may not be enough; anyone keeping
this transmission in the conversion of a late model S-10 may find
themselves having to rebuild it occasionally.
Other transmissions should fit easily though, and fortunately there are
a lot of folks out there swapping bigger engines (even V8s) into S-10s,
so information on the subject should be available with some googling or
forum hunting.
--
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now you got me wonderring guys.
I have a 4 speed manual transmission S10
I drive it in 2nd gear till 25 mph in 3rd gear till 40 mph and 4th gear
above that.
Now, why do I shift so early. At 25, and 40, the 9" ADC motor is making
some good noise by then.
So, what is my problem? misalignment?, improper mounting?
I had the motor out and to the shop 6 months ago. They didn't say anything
was wrong with it other than the brushes and commutator needing cutting
(OH! and also my pilot bearing is worn).
I always thought I could use 5th gear to get faster.
AM I REALIZING that my motor is misaligned or maybe the transmission has a
problem?, and I could get better without a 5th gear?
I could take a sound file recording next day and send to anyone who is
willing to guess please.
Thanks all for enlightenment,
Ben
To: [email protected]
Subject:
the 5 speed in my Mitsu is about the same. I do 0-45 mph in 2nd and 3rd up
to 85 mph.
> Mark Brueggemann wrote:
>
> This is exactly my setup with my S-10, and I have the 4-speed.
> Occasionally you need 1st to get off the line, or crawl up
> a steep driveway. I normally leave it in 2nd all the time
> and drive it like an automatic, is good for 0-45mph in
> daily driving. 3rd is used on the freeway 45-80mph.
> I've never used 4th since I converted it. If you can
> come up with a gear ratio chart between the two, maybe
> you can correlate what this would mean in a 5 speed.
> I'm pretty sure my differential is a 3.83.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmm doesn't the Rav4 EV meet all the critiera below????(except for range)
Lawrence Rhodes.....
Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" [EMAIL PROTECTED] cleannewworld
Date: Mon Apr 2, 2007 7:40 pm ((PDT))
http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070402/full/070402-2.html
Published online: 2 April 2007
Race for a green car
Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation.
John Whitfield
Middle of the road: contest aims for an affordable green car, rather than a
perfect one.
Start your engines: the X Prize Foundation has announced a competition to
build an environmentally friendly car.
(Guidelines below)
The winning vehicle will have to achieve at least 43 kilometres per litre
(100 miles per US gallon), regardless of the type of fuel it uses. Its
carbon emissions must be no more than 125 grams of carbon per kilometre. And
it has to be cheap enough to expect sales of 10,000 each year. "We're aiming
at the middle of the market," says Mark Goodstein, executive director of the
Automotive X Prize.
http://www.xprize.org/xprizes/automotive_x_prize.html
http://auto.xprize.org
Automotive X PRIZE
130 W. Union St.
Pasadena, CA 91103
310.587.3355 F 310.535.2701
autoprize@ xprize.org
Cristin Lindsay
senior director
626.535.2856
cristin@ xprize.com
Sarah Evans
310.582.5903
sarah.evans@ xprize.org
Santa Monica
Main Office
X PRIZE Foundation
1441 4th Street, Suite 200
Santa Monica, CA 90401
310.587.3355 F 310.393.4207
310.
Media/Press Contact:
Lane Soelberg
X PRIZE Foundation
1441 4th Street, Suite 200
Santa Monica, CA 90401
310.582.5902 F 310.393.4207
press@ xprize.org
On mileage, that will be a big leap up from today's US average of about 9
kilometres per litre. But it's not such a stretch on the carbon emissions
front: today's European cars average at 163 grams per kilometre, and the
European Union is already shooting for a target of 130 grams per kilometre
across all cars by 2012. The greenest cars in today's mainstream market
achieve something like 28 kilometres per litre and 100-120 grams of carbon
per kilometre (see 'A clean race').
The competition aims to prompt the car industry to take some chances, says
Goodstein. "There's extraordinary innovation, but not a way for those
technologies to make it to the market. It's terribly risk averse."
Goodstein believes that the prize's challenges lie more in manufacturing and
economics than in developing radical new technologies.
"To achieve 100 miles per gallon can be done with existing technology,"
agrees Rob Thring, an automotive engineer at Loughborough University, UK.
"But it requires a fairly radical design."
The rules are so far in draft form, and are open to public comment for 60
days from 2 April. The prize's value has not yet been announced, but will
"likely be in excess of $10 million", says the document.
The previous two X Prizes, for spaceflight and genomics, each had a value of
$10 million.
Race you for it
The prize has two categories. Entrants in the 'mainstream' category must be
able to carry four passengers, have a top speed of at least 160 kilometres
per hour, do 0-95 kilometres per hour in less than 12 seconds, and have a
range of at least 320 kilometres. They must also have air conditioning and a
stereo.
The 'alternative' category must carry at least two passengers, have a top
speed of at least 130 kilometres per hour, and a range of 160 kilometres.
This category doesn't mention frills, although all vehicles must have
windscreen wipers, lights, seat belts and so on.
The prize will culminate in 2009, in a series of races between the
contenders over a range of different driving conditions, from long road
trips to commuting in congested cities.
"The winner will be the car with the lowest overall time, but contestants
must meet stringent goals on efficiency and emissions," says Goodstein. "If
you burn rubber, you'll lose."
Go light
In the United States, the distance drivable on a given amount of fuel has
actually gone down in recent decades: from 9.4 kilometres per litre in 1988
to 8.8 today. "But it's not the fault of car manufacturers," says Thring.
"Customers are demanding more luxuries and goodies on their cars, and they
all add weight."
Making cars lighter is the obvious way to make them more fuel-efficient,
says Thring.
Thring believes the future ultimately belongs to cars powered by hydrogen
fuel cells. The X Prize is open to considering hydrogen-powered cars, but
only if the entrant can prove that there's an economically viable way of
refuelling them. Electric cars, or hybrid electric-fuel vehicles, are
definitely allowed in the running.
+++
Posted: Friday, March 30, 2007
by Alan Boyle
The multimillion-dollar Automotive X Prize is finally rolling up to the
starting line after more than a year of tinkering. Draft rules for the
competition, aimed at encouraging the development of "production-capable"
cars that get the energy equivalent of 100 miles per gallon, will be
unveiled next week at the New York Auto Show. The X Prize Foundation is
targeting a race between the prize finalists in 2009.
The rules are due to come out during the auto show's press preview, which
begins on Wednesday, and will be put out for a 60-day public comment period
before they're set in stone, said Mark Goodstein, the executive director of
the Automotive X Prize program.
"You only get one chance to release the final rules for a competition, and
we want to make sure they are right when they are final," he told me on
Thursday. "This is an attempt to reach out to folks worldwide who would like
to compete ... or have done this kind of thing before and know about the
hidden land mines."
Many of the details surrounding the rules are being held back until next
week, but Goodstein said they won't lend themselves easily to a quick sound
bite. "Fifty pages is nothing to sneeze at," he said.
Why do the rules have to be so complex? It's a tall order to create a
contest that will truly reward breakthroughs in what's already one of
America's biggest economic sectors.
The organizers don't want to rule out any technology that can produce more
efficient cars, whether that's biofuels, hydrogen, plug-in power, solar or
just a better breed of fossil-fuel power. For that reason, the basic metric
is the energy equivalent of 100 miles per gallon of gasoline, or 100 mpge,
in a combination of city and highway driving. Defining how that will be
measured, particularly for alternate energy sources, can get tricky.
The vehicles have to be marketable as well - so the ability to create a
"production-capable" (as opposed to "production-ready") car will be factored
into the rules. If you have a brainstorm that involves driving mice around
in a tinfoil-covered lifting body, or flying people around in dirigibles,
you'll want to think again. Not that there's anything wrong with lifters or
dirigibles, of course.
For months, Goodstein and his colleagues have been struggling over whether
the goal of the X Prize should be to reduce emissions, or reduce America's
dependence on foreign oil, or increase energy efficiency. Here's how he
encapsulated the Automotive X Prize's purpose this week:
"This is a goal to inspire a new generation of super-efficient vehicles that
will break our addiction to oil and stem the effects of planet change. That
really is it. Those two goals have been the tent poles as we've done our
thing. ...
"The industry is stuck, and it's not anybody's fault. That's just the
dynamic. ... Everyone points their fingers behind closed doors. We need to
introduce a bright spotlight in a different location and get everyone to
rush over there."
Goodstein, a veteran of dot-com and e-commerce ventures, dared to use a
chemistry metaphor - comparing the automotive industry to a supersaturated
solution that's just waiting for a little push to churn out cool new stuff.
"One little thing can be put into it, and thkk!" he said.
Of course, the Automotive X Prize won't be just "one little thing." In the
past, Goodstein has said the competition's purse might have to be even
larger than the $10 million spaceflight X Prize that was won back in 2004.
This week he said his team wasn't yet ready to announce how big the purse
will be, other than to say it will involve a multimillion-dollar payout.
"The purse is not insubstantial for the smaller teams, but they're really
doing this for the exposure," Goodstein said.
If the program develops the way Goodstein expects, that exposure would reach
its height in 2009, when the X Prize Foundation would "stage races to test
the work of these teams in a very high-profile way."
The Automotive X Prize is just one of the foundation's follow-ups to the
original space prize - standing alongside the annual X Prize Cup, the $2
million Northrop Grumman Lunar Lander Challenge, the $10 million Archon X
Prize for genomics and other projects that are still percolating. But if the
automotive contest lives up to Goodstein's hopes, it could be the
foundation's biggest world-changer. What do you think? Feel free to leave
your comments below, and watch for updates in MSNBC.com's automotive news
section.
AUTOMOTIVE X PRIZE ANNOUNCES DRAFT GUIDELINES FOR COMPETITION TO INSPIRE
SUPER-EFFICIENT VEHICLES
Innovators Invited to Help Solve One of Our World's Grand Challenges
Santa Monica, Calif. (April 2, 2007) - The X PRIZE Foundation, the
organization behind the $10 million Ansari X PRIZE that successfully
challenged teams to build private spacecraft to open up the space frontier,
is taking a step toward launching an Automotive X PRIZE (AXP) that will
inspire super-efficient vehicles that exceed 100 miles per gallon or its
equivalent.
In draft guidelines to be released at the New York Auto Show, the AXP
outlines an independent competition that will result in clean, efficient
vehicles that help break our addiction to oil and stem the effects of
climate change. The AXP also invites interested teams - major auto companies
and innovators alike - to execute letters of intent to participate as the
AXP moves toward an official launch later this year.
"We invite the world's best and brightest minds to look at this independent,
high-profile competition as a way to make a difference for generations to
come," said Mark Goodstein, executive director, Automotive X PRIZE. "In the
spirit of grand competitions throughout history - including Lindbergh's
historic flight across the Atlantic 80 years ago - we expect that the
Automotive X PRIZE will bring about change and innovation for the benefit of
everybody. This competition will help level the playing field and capture
entrepreneurial, scientific and technical energy to bring about viable cars
that consumers want to buy."
The draft guidelines outline a challenging multi-year competition with a
multi-million-dollar cash purse. Teams first are required to meet arduous
standards proving they are capable of designing and building
production-capable, super-efficient vehicles. The vehicles then will compete
in a series of rigorous stage races that test the vehicles under real-world
driving requirements and conditions. Vehicles will compete in two different
categories - Mainstream (4+ passengers, 4+ wheels) and Alternative (2+
passengers, no requirement on number of wheels). Winning vehicles must
exceed 100 miles per gallon or its equivalent, while also meeting rigorous
emission requirements.
"We are at a pivotal moment in time when promising new technologies, growing
consumer demand, and global politics make it ripe for a radical breakthrough
in the cars we drive," said Dr. Peter H. Diamandis, founder and chairman of
the X PRIZE Foundation. "The X PRIZE Foundation firmly believes we need
desirable, affordable, and fuel-efficient vehicles on the road. Our
addiction to oil is hurting consumers, undermining the economy, exacerbating
international conflicts, damaging the environment, and threatening the
health of the planet. We have made great progress in designing a competition
that will capture the public's imagination to solve these problems."
The competition guidelines include these provisions:
The AXP will be open to viable cars capable of reaching the marketplace, not
concept cars or science projects.
The international, independent competition will be open to multiple fuels
and technologies.
The guidelines introduce a new yardstick to replace the outdated MPG. The
new standard is Miles per Gallon equivalent (MPGe), which takes into account
energy equivalence, no matter what the energy source.
The AXP will release the preliminary guidelines for public comment this week
at the New York International Auto Show, one of the world's premier
international arenas. The guidelines are the product of thousands of hours
of debate and deliberation by the AXP and its advisory board of experts.
The preliminary guidelines can be found at http://auto.xprize.org. There
will be an opportunity to provide comments on the preliminary rules directly
to the Automotive X PRIZE team via the website.
X PRIZE FOUNDATION
The X PRIZE Foundation is an educational non-profit prize institute whose
mission is to bring about radical breakthroughs in space and technology for
the benefit of humanity. On October 4th, 2004, the X PRIZE Foundation
captured world headlines when Mojave Aerospace Ventures, led by Burt Rutan
and Paul Allen, built and flew the world's first private craft to space
twice in two weeks to win the $10 million Ansari X PRIZE. Because of the
dramatic nature of the achievement, the X PRIZE Foundation is now widely
recognized as the leading model for fostering innovation through
competition. In October 2006, the Foundation launched the $10M Archon X
PRIZE for Genomics for the first team to sequence 100 human genomes in 10
days.
CONTACTS:
Sarah Evans - (310) 582-5903 - Santa Monica
--- End Message ---
