EV Digest 6626
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Basic rectification question
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: S-10 Conversion Transmission
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: KillaCycle on the Dyno
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Insurance
by Mark Brueggemann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Insurance
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Basic rectification question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Arc Flash & Ark Blast Warning !!!!!
by "Deanne Mott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: Looking for Electric Mower Suggestions for 1 acre
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) KillaCycle Update
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) RE: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
With no load, you could use a very tiny capacitor, as long as its
voltage rating was high enough. Adding more capacitance won't make the
peak voltage rise. It will only make the _average_ voltage higher under
load because of ripple suppression. You won't ever exceed the AC peak
voltage of 170V (for 120VAC). The DC voltage you'll see will be the
peak of the AC sine wave, or VAC x 1.404
Frank John wrote:
What DC voltage would one see if 120VAC was rectified i.e. would it approach
170 or flatten out lower? Would adding sufficient capacitance tend to make it
rise? How would I calculate capacitor rating? I'm wondering if an alternator
(120 or possibly 240) could be used as an inexpensive higher-voltage generator.
Thanks,
Frank
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello Ben,
Try some elimination. Jack the EV and put it on jack stands and could block
it with heavy timber. See how much the drive shaft drops and see if the
differential is still parallel with the transmission and motor. Should be
parallel, but not in-line with the differential.
There should be at least 2 degree angle in the drive line when a vehicle is
on grade and when jack up it drops to the a stop and the output drive line
shaft should slide out about a 1.25 inch and when on grade, there should be
about 0.50 inch clearance before the output shaft bottoms out.
Now remove the drive line and start up the motor in neutral gear and see if
you still have that noise. If you do, then its in the coupler or flywheel.
If not then, start to shift into each gear and if you do not have any noise
and than its in the drive shaft.
If your drive line is too much in line with the motor and differential, the
small needle bearings will not rotated as much and will wear out sooner,
causing a flat side on these bearings.
Get one of those magnetic base degree levels that read in four 90 degrees
segments in 360 degrees and attach it to the differential and than to the
motor and/or transmission while the car is on grade, not jack up. The
degrees should be the same. I use A MD Macklanburg-Duncan one that I got
from Home Depot.
Make sure you stay above 2 degree angle in the drive line between the
motor/transmission and differential. I had to install those alignment shims
that you can get from a auto parts store to make my motor and transmission
come in parallel with my differential. Some rear differential mounts come
with a selection of shim plates to make this adjustment.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: S-10 Conversion Transmission
> Now you got me wonderring guys.
>
> I have a 4 speed manual transmission S10
> I drive it in 2nd gear till 25 mph in 3rd gear till 40 mph and 4th gear
> above that.
>
> Now, why do I shift so early. At 25, and 40, the 9" ADC motor is making
> some good noise by then.
>
> So, what is my problem? misalignment?, improper mounting?
> I had the motor out and to the shop 6 months ago. They didn't say
> anything
> was wrong with it other than the brushes and commutator needing cutting
> (OH! and also my pilot bearing is worn).
>
> I always thought I could use 5th gear to get faster.
>
> AM I REALIZING that my motor is misaligned or maybe the transmission has a
> problem?, and I could get better without a 5th gear?
>
> I could take a sound file recording next day and send to anyone who is
> willing to guess please.
>
> Thanks all for enlightenment,
>
> Ben
>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject:
> the 5 speed in my Mitsu is about the same. I do 0-45 mph in 2nd and 3rd
> up
> to 85 mph.
>
> > Mark Brueggemann wrote:
> >
> > This is exactly my setup with my S-10, and I have the 4-speed.
> > Occasionally you need 1st to get off the line, or crawl up
> > a steep driveway. I normally leave it in 2nd all the time
> > and drive it like an automatic, is good for 0-45mph in
> > daily driving. 3rd is used on the freeway 45-80mph.
> > I've never used 4th since I converted it. If you can
> > come up with a gear ratio chart between the two, maybe
> > you can correlate what this would mean in a 5 speed.
> > I'm pretty sure my differential is a 3.83.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cool. The draft rules have a provision for an:
Alternative class An outlet for innovative ideas that push forward
today's conventions about automotive transportation (2+ passengers, no
requirement on number of wheels)
I can get better mileage than that and less emissions too, on a ten
year old currie scooter with passenger and picnic, fueled by nuclear
and hydro.
And of course as a tiny light weight and low speed vehicle, it is the
safest motorized vehicle on the planet - for my fellow travelers around
me...
:)
Lock
human-electric hybrid pedestrian
Toronto
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hmmm doesn't the Rav4 EV meet all the critiera below????(except for
> range)
> Lawrence Rhodes.....
>
> Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
> Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> cleannewworld
> Date: Mon Apr 2, 2007 7:40 pm ((PDT))
>
> http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070402/full/070402-2.html
>
> Published online: 2 April 2007
> Race for a green car
> Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation.
> John Whitfield
>
> Middle of the road: contest aims for an affordable green car, rather
> than a
> perfect one.
>
> Start your engines: the X Prize Foundation has announced a
> competition to
> build an environmentally friendly car.
> (Guidelines below)
>
> The winning vehicle will have to achieve at least 43 kilometres per
> litre
> (100 miles per US gallon), regardless of the type of fuel it uses.
> Its
> carbon emissions must be no more than 125 grams of carbon per
> kilometre. And
> it has to be cheap enough to expect sales of 10,000 each year. "We're
> aiming
> at the middle of the market," says Mark Goodstein, executive director
> of the
> Automotive X Prize.
>
> http://www.xprize.org/xprizes/automotive_x_prize.html
> http://auto.xprize.org
>
> Automotive X PRIZE
> 130 W. Union St.
> Pasadena, CA 91103
> 310.587.3355 F 310.535.2701
> autoprize@ xprize.org
>
> Cristin Lindsay
> senior director
> 626.535.2856
> cristin@ xprize.com
>
> Sarah Evans
> 310.582.5903
> sarah.evans@ xprize.org
> Santa Monica
>
> Main Office
> X PRIZE Foundation
> 1441 4th Street, Suite 200
> Santa Monica, CA 90401
> 310.587.3355 F 310.393.4207
> 310.
>
> Media/Press Contact:
> Lane Soelberg
> X PRIZE Foundation
> 1441 4th Street, Suite 200
> Santa Monica, CA 90401
> 310.582.5902 F 310.393.4207
> press@ xprize.org
>
> On mileage, that will be a big leap up from today's US average of
> about 9
> kilometres per litre. But it's not such a stretch on the carbon
> emissions
> front: today's European cars average at 163 grams per kilometre, and
> the
> European Union is already shooting for a target of 130 grams per
> kilometre
> across all cars by 2012. The greenest cars in today's mainstream
> market
> achieve something like 28 kilometres per litre and 100-120 grams of
> carbon
> per kilometre (see 'A clean race').
>
> The competition aims to prompt the car industry to take some chances,
> says
> Goodstein. "There's extraordinary innovation, but not a way for those
> technologies to make it to the market. It's terribly risk averse."
>
> Goodstein believes that the prize's challenges lie more in
> manufacturing and
> economics than in developing radical new technologies.
>
> "To achieve 100 miles per gallon can be done with existing
> technology,"
> agrees Rob Thring, an automotive engineer at Loughborough University,
> UK.
> "But it requires a fairly radical design."
>
> The rules are so far in draft form, and are open to public comment
> for 60
> days from 2 April. The prize's value has not yet been announced, but
> will
> "likely be in excess of $10 million", says the document.
>
> The previous two X Prizes, for spaceflight and genomics, each had a
> value of
> $10 million.
>
> Race you for it
>
> The prize has two categories. Entrants in the 'mainstream' category
> must be
> able to carry four passengers, have a top speed of at least 160
> kilometres
> per hour, do 0-95 kilometres per hour in less than 12 seconds, and
> have a
> range of at least 320 kilometres. They must also have air
> conditioning and a
> stereo.
>
> The 'alternative' category must carry at least two passengers, have a
> top
> speed of at least 130 kilometres per hour, and a range of 160
> kilometres.
> This category doesn't mention frills, although all vehicles must have
> windscreen wipers, lights, seat belts and so on.
>
> The prize will culminate in 2009, in a series of races between the
> contenders over a range of different driving conditions, from long
> road
> trips to commuting in congested cities.
>
> "The winner will be the car with the lowest overall time, but
> contestants
> must meet stringent goals on efficiency and emissions," says
> Goodstein. "If
> you burn rubber, you'll lose."
>
> Go light
>
> In the United States, the distance drivable on a given amount of fuel
> has
> actually gone down in recent decades: from 9.4 kilometres per litre
> in 1988
> to 8.8 today. "But it's not the fault of car manufacturers," says
> Thring.
> "Customers are demanding more luxuries and goodies on their cars, and
> they
> all add weight."
>
> Making cars lighter is the obvious way to make them more
> fuel-efficient,
> says Thring.
>
> Thring believes the future ultimately belongs to cars powered by
> hydrogen
> fuel cells. The X Prize is open to considering hydrogen-powered cars,
> but
> only if the entrant can prove that there's an economically viable way
> of
> refuelling them. Electric cars, or hybrid electric-fuel vehicles, are
> definitely allowed in the running.
>
> +++
>
> Posted: Friday, March 30, 2007
> by Alan Boyle
>
> The multimillion-dollar Automotive X Prize is finally rolling up to
> the
> starting line after more than a year of tinkering. Draft rules for
> the
> competition, aimed at encouraging the development of
> "production-capable"
> cars that get the energy equivalent of 100 miles per gallon, will be
> unveiled next week at the New York Auto Show. The X Prize Foundation
> is
> targeting a race between the prize finalists in 2009.
>
> The rules are due to come out during the auto show's press preview,
> which
> begins on Wednesday, and will be put out for a 60-day public comment
> period
> before they're set in stone, said Mark Goodstein, the executive
> director of
> the Automotive X Prize program.
>
> "You only get one chance to release the final rules for a
> competition, and
> we want to make sure they are right when they are final," he told me
> on
> Thursday. "This is an attempt to reach out to folks worldwide who
> would like
> to compete ... or have done this kind of thing before and know about
> the
> hidden land mines."
>
> Many of the details surrounding the rules are being held back until
> next
> week, but Goodstein said they won't lend themselves easily to a quick
> sound
> bite. "Fifty pages is nothing to sneeze at," he said.
> Why do the rules have to be so complex? It's a tall order to create a
> contest that will truly reward breakthroughs in what's already one of
> America's biggest economic sectors.
>
> The organizers don't want to rule out any technology that can produce
> more
> efficient cars, whether that's biofuels, hydrogen, plug-in power,
> solar or
> just a better breed of fossil-fuel power. For that reason, the basic
> metric
> is the energy equivalent of 100 miles per gallon of gasoline, or 100
> mpge,
> in a combination of city and highway driving. Defining how that will
> be
> measured, particularly for alternate energy sources, can get tricky.
>
> The vehicles have to be marketable as well - so the ability to create
> a
> "production-capable" (as opposed to "production-ready") car will be
> factored
> into the rules. If you have a brainstorm that involves driving mice
> around
> in a tinfoil-covered lifting body, or flying people around in
> dirigibles,
> you'll want to think again. Not that there's anything wrong with
> lifters or
> dirigibles, of course.
>
> For months, Goodstein and his colleagues have been struggling over
> whether
> the goal of the X Prize should be to reduce emissions, or reduce
> America's
> dependence on foreign oil, or increase energy efficiency. Here's how
> he
> encapsulated the Automotive X Prize's purpose this week:
>
> "This is a goal to inspire a new generation of super-efficient
> vehicles that
> will break our addiction to oil and stem the effects of planet
> change. That
> really is it. Those two goals have been the tent poles as we've done
> our
> thing. ...
>
> "The industry is stuck, and it's not anybody's fault. That's just the
> dynamic. ... Everyone points their fingers behind closed doors. We
> need to
> introduce a bright spotlight in a different location and get everyone
> to
> rush over there."
>
> Goodstein, a veteran of dot-com and e-commerce ventures, dared to use
> a
> chemistry metaphor - comparing the automotive industry to a
> supersaturated
> solution that's just waiting for a little push to churn out cool new
> stuff.
>
> "One little thing can be put into it, and thkk!" he said.
>
> Of course, the Automotive X Prize won't be just "one little thing."
> In the
> past, Goodstein has said the competition's purse might have to be
> even
> larger than the $10 million spaceflight X Prize that was won back in
> 2004.
> This week he said his team wasn't yet ready to announce how big the
> purse
> will be, other than to say it will involve a multimillion-dollar
> payout.
>
> "The purse is not insubstantial for the smaller teams, but they're
> really
> doing this for the exposure," Goodstein said.
>
> If the program develops the way Goodstein expects, that exposure
> would reach
> its height in 2009, when the X Prize Foundation would "stage races to
> test
> the work of these teams in a very high-profile way."
>
> The Automotive X Prize is just one of the foundation's follow-ups to
> the
> original space prize - standing alongside the annual X Prize Cup, the
> $2
> million Northrop Grumman Lunar Lander Challenge, the $10 million
> Archon X
> Prize for genomics and other projects that are still percolating. But
> if the
> automotive contest lives up to Goodstein's hopes, it could be the
> foundation's biggest world-changer. What do you think? Feel free to
> leave
> your comments below, and watch for updates in MSNBC.com's automotive
> news
> section.
>
> AUTOMOTIVE X PRIZE ANNOUNCES DRAFT GUIDELINES FOR COMPETITION TO
> INSPIRE
> SUPER-EFFICIENT VEHICLES
>
> Innovators Invited to Help Solve One of Our World's Grand Challenges
>
> Santa Monica, Calif. (April 2, 2007) - The X PRIZE Foundation, the
> organization behind the $10 million Ansari X PRIZE that successfully
> challenged teams to build private spacecraft to open up the space
> frontier,
> is taking a step toward launching an Automotive X PRIZE (AXP) that
> will
> inspire super-efficient vehicles that exceed 100 miles per gallon or
> its
> equivalent.
>
> In draft guidelines to be released at the New York Auto Show, the AXP
> outlines an independent competition that will result in clean,
> efficient
> vehicles that help break our addiction to oil and stem the effects of
> climate change. The AXP also invites interested teams - major auto
> companies
> and innovators alike - to execute letters of intent to participate as
> the
> AXP moves toward an official launch later this year.
>
> "We invite the world's best and brightest minds to look at this
> independent,
> high-profile competition as a way to make a difference for
> generations to
> come," said Mark Goodstein, executive director, Automotive X PRIZE.
> "In the
> spirit of grand competitions throughout history - including
> Lindbergh's
> historic flight across the Atlantic 80 years ago - we expect that the
> Automotive X PRIZE will bring about change and innovation for the
> benefit of
> everybody. This competition will help level the playing field and
> capture
> entrepreneurial, scientific and technical energy to bring about
> viable cars
> that consumers want to buy."
>
> The draft guidelines outline a challenging multi-year competition
> with a
> multi-million-dollar cash purse. Teams first are required to meet
> arduous
> standards proving they are capable of designing and building
> production-capable, super-efficient vehicles. The vehicles then will
> compete
> in a series of rigorous stage races that test the vehicles under
> real-world
> driving requirements and conditions. Vehicles will compete in two
> different
> categories - Mainstream (4+ passengers, 4+ wheels) and Alternative
> (2+
> passengers, no requirement on number of wheels). Winning vehicles
> must
> exceed 100 miles per gallon or its equivalent, while also meeting
> rigorous
> emission requirements.
>
> "We are at a pivotal moment in time when promising new technologies,
> growing
> consumer demand, and global politics make it ripe for a radical
> breakthrough
> in the cars we drive," said Dr. Peter H. Diamandis, founder and
> chairman of
> the X PRIZE Foundation. "The X PRIZE Foundation firmly believes we
> need
> desirable, affordable, and fuel-efficient vehicles on the road. Our
> addiction to oil is hurting consumers, undermining the economy,
> exacerbating
> international conflicts, damaging the environment, and threatening
> the
> health of the planet. We have made great progress in designing a
> competition
> that will capture the public's imagination to solve these problems."
>
> The competition guidelines include these provisions:
>
> The AXP will be open to viable cars capable of reaching the
> marketplace, not
> concept cars or science projects.
> The international, independent competition will be open to multiple
> fuels
> and technologies.
> The guidelines introduce a new yardstick to replace the outdated MPG.
> The
> new standard is Miles per Gallon equivalent (MPGe), which takes into
> account
> energy equivalence, no matter what the energy source.
> The AXP will release the preliminary guidelines for public comment
> this week
> at the New York International Auto Show, one of the world's premier
> international arenas. The guidelines are the product of thousands of
> hours
> of debate and deliberation by the AXP and its advisory board of
> experts.
>
> The preliminary guidelines can be found at http://auto.xprize.org.
> There
> will be an opportunity to provide comments on the preliminary rules
> directly
> to the Automotive X PRIZE team via the website.
>
> X PRIZE FOUNDATION
> The X PRIZE Foundation is an educational non-profit prize institute
> whose
> mission is to bring about radical breakthroughs in space and
> technology for
> the benefit of humanity. On October 4th, 2004, the X PRIZE Foundation
> captured world headlines when Mojave Aerospace Ventures, led by Burt
> Rutan
> and Paul Allen, built and flew the world's first private craft to
> space
> twice in two weeks to win the $10 million Ansari X PRIZE. Because of
> the
> dramatic nature of the achievement, the X PRIZE Foundation is now
> widely
> recognized as the leading model for fostering innovation through
> competition. In October 2006, the Foundation launched the $10M Archon
> X
> PRIZE for Genomics for the first team to sequence 100 human genomes
> in 10
> days.
>
> CONTACTS:
> Sarah Evans - (310) 582-5903 - Santa Monica
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence> Hmmm doesn't the Rav4 EV meet all the critiera
Lawrence> below????(except for range)
Would it be (have been) cheap enough to meet the sales criterion?
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
"The hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties,
but the geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, Here is a link to a chart:
http://www.killacycle.com/photos/ahdra-race-march-07/DynoKillaCycleRun2.jpg
Derek got this from Bart (TK Motorsports) and scanned it in.
Bike was turned down to 900 amps and Bart was being very cautious on
the throttle (and wisely so.)
At some point soon, we'll put the KillaCycle on a car dyno that can
absorb the torque and HP that the KillaCycle can dish out.
It is fun to see the change in attitude when folks see just how
powerful this bike really is. Expressions change from, "Hey, you guys
are doing something really new and different." before they see it
run, to, "Holy S^^T, that is unbelievable!"
Bill Dube'
At 07:00 AM 3/28/2007, you wrote:
Hey Bill
Fun stuff
So what the dyno say anyway? Any data before you
wrecked the guys dyno? LMAO.
I'll be sitting at my computer all weekend so I'll be
sending you "happy thoughts". Best of luck this
weekend.
With what sounds like a new ratio and series parallel
shifting you have any thoughts as to where you're
hoping to get ET wise?
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> We put the bike on the dyno today at TK
> Motorsports. Even
> turned down to 900 amps, the KillaCycle is so
> powerful it _bent_ the
> tie-down I-beams on the dyno, and then _broke_ one
> of the hold-down
> straps. We had a total of _7_ straps holding the
> bike down to the
> dyno, but that wasn't enough! It was an exciting
> moment that the film
> crew caught on tape (and Derek caught on tape as
> well,) but
> everything was OK. Just slightly deformed beams on
> the dyno, a broken
> tie down strap, and an adrenaline rush for Bart, who
> was on the bike
> at the time. We decided that three runs was enough
> for today. :-)
>
> I just put up a short clip from the shoot
> on YouTube:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsCD9nVwmNI
> (Sorry, this was before all the major excitement.)
>
> Here is a link to a few snapshots of the
> filming in progress:
>
http://www.killacycle.com/photos/ahdra-race-march-07/
>
> We made three runs on the dyno. I was like
> water off a
> duck's back to the battery pack. It never even
> warned up beyond 63 F.
> When we put it on the charger, it came up in about
> 10 minutes. The
> new BMS that Steve, Scot, and Derek built is working
> perfectly. All
> the green lights came on nearly simultaneously. It
> was a thing of
> beauty to behold.
>
> The sequence will appear on "Future Wheels"
> on the VOOM
> channel of Dish TV in May sometime.
>
> Bill Dube'
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have just about completed a built from scratch electric
> motorcycle.
> I've been looking for insurance coverage and have not found anything
> specific. Does the list have any recommendations for insuring such a
> vehicle?
You will need a certificate of origin for the frame. Since the
frame is scratch built, I think you will have a tough time getting
it titled, much less insured. I know with some of the harley
bike builders I've met over the years, they will use the neck
off of an existing frame (where the serial number is) as an element
to their own designs, for the express purpose of having an
associated title or certificate of origin to go with it.
Being scratch built, I think it will be a challenge to insure
it as well, even for liability since there's no donor or base
vehicle to provide a reference in their rate book. If you had
a title for an ICE bike that you started with, it would be
fairly straightforward to register and insure it, but being scratch
built you will need to find out how to title it, if it's even
possible/practical. Talk to a local hotrod or bike builder and
see what options you might have.
Mark "EV Basher" Brueggemann
Albuquerque, NM
S-10 EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
fairly straightforward to register and insure it, but being scratch
built you will need to find out how to title it, if it's even
possible/practical. Talk to a local hotrod or bike builder and
see what options you might have.
In some places there is a procedure for a homebuilt vehicle. In
Alberta, Canada, you get a VIN from the auto theft unit of your
local police service. You need to submit invoices to demonstrate
where you purchased all of the pieces to build your homebuilt
vehicle. Then, you get a safety inspection done - they check
everything like tail lamp height, headlamp aim, all the little
things. Once this has been passed, they will affix a VIN number
plate to your vehicle.
To manufacture vehicles, you need to be authorized by Transport
Canada to affix a VIN and compliance label - and you need to
comply with all of the regs including crash tests, etc. For a
single vehicle that you intend on driving then you don't have
to do that.
-Dale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Frank John
> Thanks for the input everyone. I'm trying to come up with a quick and
> dirty way of using relatively inexpensive off-the-shelf components to
> make a "Mt. Washington" regen system... 144 or 156 volt...
Aha; now it makes a little more sense.
You can build a "quick and dirty" regen system with an ordinary AC induction
motor, a big load capacitor (to make it an induction generator), and a bridge
rectifier. Such a system has no way to control the amount of regen you get
(except by shifting). But it automatically starts regen as soon as the AC motor
reaches the speed where the peak of its AC voltage exceeds the battery pack
voltage. And, it automatically stops generating if the regen current gets too
high (where the capacitors no longer keep the power factor leading).
If you use a normal 120vac 60hz induction motor rated at 3450 rpm with a 144vdc
pack, it will start generating at around 3000 rpm. Charging current will rise
as the speed increases, and will peak at around 4000 rpm where it will abruptly
stop generating. So, you have to shift to keep the rpm in this 3000-4000 rpm
range.
If these limitations are acceptable, it's certainly an easy setup!
--
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it." -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377
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Hi Lawrence, Mark and All,
It looks like the rules were written for the
Freedom EV!!! Not only that, but for the 4 passenger
version, the Sunrise would be very hard to beat too!!
I'll go for it. Lee, you should go for the
4 passenger prize. Just think with $20+ million what we
could do!!
The way it's written, more points are given
for production capability, both of which the Freedom EV and
Sunrise have large advantages with being all composite
vehicles allowing the tooling to be done for less than 2 of
what the EV's would cost.
Last time I read their PR they had you build
10,000 to get it, now you just have to be capable which
makes it much more profitable, worthwhile ;^D
This contest is where EV's can really show
their stuff as they can be both fast and eff. The Sunrise
should do the 0-95kph/0-60mph in about 5 seconds and mine in
about 7 seconds which would blow away their 12 sec minimum.
Jerry Dycus
>http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070402/full/070402-2.html
>
>Published online: 2 April 2007
>Race for a green car
>Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation.
>John Whitfield
>
>Middle of the road: contest aims for an affordable green
>car, rather than a perfect one.
>
>Start your engines: the X Prize Foundation has announced a
>competition to build an environmentally friendly car.
>(Guidelines below)
>
>The winning vehicle will have to achieve at least 43
>kilometres per litre (100 miles per US gallon), regardless
>of the type of fuel it uses. Its carbon emissions must be
>no more than 125 grams of carbon per kilometre. And it has
>to be cheap enough to expect sales of 10,000 each year.
>"We're aiming at the middle of the market," says Mark
>Goodstein, executive director of the Automotive X Prize.
>
>http://www.xprize.org/xprizes/automotive_x_prize.html
>http://auto.xprize.org
>
>Automotive X PRIZE
>130 W. Union St.
>Pasadena, CA 91103
>310.587.3355 F 310.535.2701
>autoprize@ xprize.org
>
>Cristin Lindsay
>senior director
>626.535.2856
>cristin@ xprize.com
>
>Sarah Evans
>310.582.5903
>sarah.evans@ xprize.org
>Santa Monica
>
>Main Office
>X PRIZE Foundation
>1441 4th Street, Suite 200
>Santa Monica, CA 90401
>310.587.3355 F 310.393.4207
>310.
>
>Media/Press Contact:
>Lane Soelberg
>X PRIZE Foundation
>1441 4th Street, Suite 200
>Santa Monica, CA 90401
>310.582.5902 F 310.393.4207
>press@ xprize.org
>
>On mileage, that will be a big leap up from today's US
>average of about 9 kilometres per litre. But it's not such
>a stretch on the carbon emissions front: today's European
>cars average at 163 grams per kilometre, and the European
>Union is already shooting for a target of 130 grams per
>kilometre across all cars by 2012. The greenest cars in
>today's mainstream market achieve something like 28
>kilometres per litre and 100-120 grams of carbon per
>kilometre (see 'A clean race').
>
>Goodstein believes that the prize's challenges lie more in
>manufacturing and economics than in developing radical new
>technologies.
>
>"To achieve 100 miles per gallon can be done with existing
>technology," agrees Rob Thring, an automotive engineer at
>Loughborough University, UK. "But it requires a fairly
>radical design."
>
>The rules are so far in draft form, and are open to public
>comment for 60 days from 2 April. The prize's value has not
>yet been announced, but will "likely be in excess of $10
>million", says the document.
>
>The previous two X Prizes, for spaceflight and genomics,
>each had a value of $10 million.
>
>Race you for it
>
>The prize has two categories. Entrants in the 'mainstream'
>category must be able to carry four passengers, have a top
>speed of at least 160 kilometres per hour, do 0-95
>kilometres per hour in less than 12 seconds, and have a
>range of at least 320 kilometres. They must also have air
>conditioning and a stereo.
>
>The 'alternative' category must carry at least two
>passengers, have a top speed of at least 130 kilometres per
>hour, and a range of 160 kilometres. This category doesn't
>mention frills, although all vehicles must have windscreen
>wipers, lights, seat belts and so on.
>
>The prize will culminate in 2009, in a series of races
>between the contenders over a range of different driving
>conditions, from long road trips to commuting in congested
>cities.
>
>"The winner will be the car with the lowest overall time,
>but contestants must meet stringent goals on efficiency and
>emissions," says Goodstein. "If you burn rubber, you'll
>lose."
>
>Go light
>
>Making cars lighter is the obvious way to make them more
>fuel-efficient, says Thring.
>
>Thring believes the future ultimately belongs to cars
>powered by hydrogen fuel cells. The X Prize is open to
>considering hydrogen-powered cars, but only if the entrant
>can prove that there's an economically viable way of
>refuelling them. Electric cars, or hybrid electric-fuel
>vehicles, are definitely allowed in the running.
>
>+++
>
>The organizers don't want to rule out any technology that
>can produce more efficient cars, whether that's biofuels,
>hydrogen, plug-in power, solar or just a better breed of
>fossil-fuel power. For that reason, the basic metric is the
>energy equivalent of 100 miles per gallon of gasoline, or
>100 mpge, in a combination of city and highway driving.
>Defining how that will be measured, particularly for
>alternate energy sources, can get tricky.
>
>The vehicles have to be marketable as well - so the ability
>to create a "production-capable" (as opposed to
>"production-ready") car will be factored into the rules. If
>you have a brainstorm that involves driving mice around in
>a tinfoil-covered lifting body, or flying people around in
>dirigibles, you'll want to think again. Not that there's
>anything wrong with lifters or dirigibles, of course.
>
>For months, Goodstein and his colleagues have been
>struggling over whether the goal of the X Prize should be
>to reduce emissions, or reduce America's dependence on
>foreign oil, or increase energy efficiency. Here's how he
>encapsulated the Automotive X Prize's purpose this week:
>
>"This is a goal to inspire a new generation of
>super-efficient vehicles that will break our addiction to
>oil and stem the effects of planet change. That really is
>it. Those two goals have been the tent poles as we've done
>our thing. ...
>
>AUTOMOTIVE X PRIZE ANNOUNCES DRAFT GUIDELINES FOR
>COMPETITION TO INSPIRE SUPER-EFFICIENT VEHICLES
>
>Innovators Invited to Help Solve One of Our World's Grand
>Challenges
>
>Santa Monica, Calif. (April 2, 2007) - The X PRIZE
>Foundation, the organization behind the $10 million Ansari
>X PRIZE that successfully challenged teams to build private
>spacecraft to open up the space frontier, is taking a step
>toward launching an Automotive X PRIZE (AXP) that will
>inspire super-efficient vehicles that exceed 100 miles per
>gallon or its equivalent.
>
>"We invite the world's best and brightest minds to look at
>this independent, high-profile competition as a way to make
>a difference for generations to come," said Mark Goodstein,
>executive director, Automotive X PRIZE. "In the spirit of
>grand competitions throughout history - including
>Lindbergh's historic flight across the Atlantic 80 years
>ago - we expect that the Automotive X PRIZE will bring
>about change and innovation for the benefit of everybody.
>This competition will help level the playing field and
>capture entrepreneurial, scientific and technical energy to
>bring about viable cars that consumers want to buy."
>
>The draft guidelines outline a challenging multi-year
>competition with a multi-million-dollar cash purse. Teams
>first are required to meet arduous standards proving they
>are capable of designing and building production-capable,
>super-efficient vehicles. The vehicles then will compete in
>a series of rigorous stage races that test the vehicles
>under real-world driving requirements and conditions.
>Vehicles will compete in two different categories -
>Mainstream (4+ passengers, 4+ wheels) and Alternative (2+
>passengers, no requirement on number of wheels). Winning
>vehicles must exceed 100 miles per gallon or its equivalent
>, while also meeting rigorous emission requirements.
>
>"We are at a pivotal moment in time when promising new
>technologies, growing consumer demand, and global politics
>make it ripe for a radical breakthrough in the cars we
>drive," said Dr. Peter H. Diamandis, founder and chairman
>of the X PRIZE Foundation. "The X PRIZE Foundation firmly
>believes we need desirable, affordable, and fuel-efficient
>vehicles on the road. Our addiction to oil is hurting
>consumers, undermining the economy, exacerbating
>international conflicts, damaging the environment, and
>threatening the health of the planet. We have made great
>progress in designing a competition that will capture the
>public's imagination to solve these problems."
>
>The competition guidelines include these provisions:
>
>The AXP will be open to viable cars capable of reaching the
>marketplace, not concept cars or science projects.
>The international, independent competition will be open to
>multiple fuels and technologies.
>The guidelines introduce a new yardstick to replace the
>outdated MPG. The new standard is Miles per Gallon
>equivalent (MPGe), which takes into account energy
>equivalence, no matter what the energy source. The AXP will
>release the preliminary guidelines for public comment this
>week at the New York International Auto Show, one of the
>world's premier international arenas. The guidelines are
>the product of thousands of hours of debate and
>deliberation by the AXP and its advisory board of experts.
>
>The preliminary guidelines can be found at
>http://auto.xprize.org. There will be an opportunity to
>provide comments on the preliminary rules directly to the
>Automotive X PRIZE team via the website.
>
>
>CONTACTS:
>Sarah Evans - (310) 582-5903 - Santa Monica
>
>
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For a combustion fuelled vehicle, that is roughly double the mileage of the
Mercedes Smart Car. That's quite an aggressive target for any combustion
engine-based vehicle to meet.
-Dale
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--- Begin Message ---
>Someone recently described where they completely cover all the other
>batteries with protective blankets. Before this happened I would have
thought that
>was overkill. I now think that as a very smart safety precaution.
What type of "protective" blanket are we talking about here?
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Dale> For a combustion fuelled vehicle, that is roughly double the
Dale> mileage of the Mercedes Smart Car. That's quite an aggressive
Dale> target for any combustion engine-based vehicle to meet.
A plug-in Prius should be able to get > 100mpg, yes? It would certainly
meet the affordability and customer demand criteria. Would it clear the
carbon emissions/mile bar (200gm/mi?)
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
"The hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties,
but the geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
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--- Begin Message ---
These may be a little large for one acre, but I have cut a lot of tall grass
with the one in the first link :^D
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/tracpage.html
http://www.renewables.com/tracpage1.html
http://www.renewables.com/tracpage2.html
http://www.renewables.com/tracpage3.html
http://www.renewables.com/Permaculture/ElectricTractor.htm
~~~~~~
Roy LeMeur
_________________________________________________________________
Download Messenger. Join the im Initiative. Help make a difference today.
http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_APR07
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Well, the bike is back home in Denver and I have a few moments to
post a few tidbits. We were ecstatic about the unbelievably low ETs
we were able to post this past weekend. (8.168) Our 60 ft times were
as low as 1.169 seconds and consistently below 1.2 for the event itself.
There were several improvements that seemed to come together nicely
for this event. We put in an additional 110 A123 Systems M1 cells for
a total of 990 cells. We installed the contactors and wiring for
series-parallel shifting. (This allowed a serious re-gearing of the
final drive.) We installed a new and improved BMS. We installed
heaters inside the pack itself and made a three-zone temperature
controller to run it. We swapped out the heavy lead-acid accessory
battery (about 5 lbs) for a 0.9 lb A123 Systems 4 cell pack. We also
swapped out our car-tire style Mickey Thompson slick for a lighter
weight model specifically designed for drag bikes.
All of this resulted in a 6 lb weight reduction of the bike and a 55
HP increase.
You can see a few new pictures of the event at:
http://www.killacycle.com/photos/ahdra-race-march-07/
and a few new pictures of the team at:
http://www.killacycle.com/photos/teamphotos/
Bill Dube'
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--- Begin Message ---
I didn't read all the information. But this has already been done,
hasn't it?
Wouldn't one of Rich Rudman's Plug-In Prius kits work. 100 mpg.
I'm not sure what the emissions would be.
Maybe take it one step further and strip the car down and make a
lighter composite body to gain some more MPGs.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
On Apr 3, 2007, at 1:22 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
The winning vehicle will have to achieve at least 43 kilometres per
litre
(100 miles per US gallon), regardless of the type of fuel it uses. Its
carbon emissions must be no more than 125 grams of carbon per
kilometre. And
it has to be cheap enough to expect sales of 10,000 each year.
"We're aiming
at the middle of the market," says Mark Goodstein, executive
director of the
Automotive X Prize.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Uh... the VW Vortex car has already acheived ~400mpg in real world tests
~~~~~~
Roy LeMeur
_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage refinance is Hot. *Terms. Get a 5.375%* fix rate. Check savings
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2bbb&disc=y&vers=925&s=4056&p=5117
--- End Message ---
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me> A plug-in Prius should be able to get > 100mpg, yes?
Chip> Wouldn't one of Rich Rudman's Plug-In Prius kits work. 100 mpg.
I realized on the way home that the 100mpg figure would be attainable only
under certain constraints, namely that the travel distance be short enough
to allow much of the driving to be done only on battery power. If you drive
long distances - as an X Prize test might have you do - the overall mileage
would suffer.
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
"The hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties,
but the geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chip Gribben wrote:
> I didn't read all the information. But this has already been done,
> hasn't it?
>
> Wouldn't one of Rich Rudman's Plug-In Prius kits work. 100 mpg.
Nope. At least two problems.
First and foremost the plug-in hybrids only achieve the "100mpg" when
driven only short trips (so that most of the required energy comes from
the battery/grid). The AXP guidelines state that the vehicles will be
evaluated based on a couple of "long distance" runs, which suggests that
the vehicles may be evaluated over courses sufficiently long to lower
the plug-in hybrid fuel economy below the 100mpg minimum. Certainly,
all present plug-in hybrids would have difficulty demonstrating 100mpg+
equivalence over the required minimum 200mi range.
Next up is the safety requirement, though this is also related to the
inability to sustain the 100mpg+ level over long distances due to the
impact on the battery pack size. A 2007 Prius is spec'd at 1335kg
(2943lbs) curb and 1721kg (3795lbs) GVWR. It is spec'd as a 5-seater,
and in Canada 70kg of the payload is allocated to each seat(belt)
position; this leave the car with a payload capacity of just 36kg. The
AXP requires seating capacity for 4+ people, so if one seatbelt is
deleted, the available payload increases to 106kg (233lbs). I'm fairly
sure that adding the plug-in hybrid pack, charger/DC-DC, and other bits
and pieces is going to chew through this available weight really
quickly, such that the vehicle will either have no payload left, or be
over GVWR, or will have such a small pack that the electric only range
will be quite small. Deleting the original pack buys a bit more weight
room, and going with Li allows greater range from a given weight pack,
but it seems like it would still be challenge.
Cheers,
Roger.
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