EV Digest 6627
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Quick PFC20 question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Stranger than fiction in Chandler, AZ
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Basic rectification question
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Arc Flash & Ark Blast Warning !!!!!
by "bortel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Car and Driver YES...NOW MOTOR TREND !!!
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Stranger than fiction in Chandler, AZ
by Sam Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Pack Balance?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Stranger than fiction in Chandler, AZ
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Insurance
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: KillaCycle Update
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Pack Balance?
by Mark Brueggemann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: KillaCycle Update
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) battery balance
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Some fun reactions toward C&D and Killacycle
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Charger/Battery Recommedations (Was:Killing my Batteries Thread)
by "John Foster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by KARSTEN GOPINATH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: battery balance
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: What happened to Ed Ang's (VReg mfg) email? (Bouncing now.)
by Jake Oshins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Arc Flash & Ark Blast Warning !!!!!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> The vehicle chassis shall be grounded. Period. NO exception.
Victor added:
> With the exception of any vehicle with fiberglass or plastic body.
Evan Tuer asked:
> Why do you say that? Most fibreglass bodied vehicles I'm familiar
> with (such as my old EV) have exposed metalwork all over the place
> which is electrically connected to the chassis: door handles,
> ignition barrel, wheels, wiper arms... The chassis itself can be
> touched if you reach under the car. This should all be grounded.
When writing regulations, we need to be careful to define the desired *result*,
but not define the *method* used to achieve it. If you specify the method, time
and technology will march ahead, and your regulations will have cast in stone
one particular method and thereby locked out all other methods.
For example, when the regulations were written to require hydraulic brakes,
sealed beam headlights, and safety glass windshields for cars, they were a
significant improvement over what went before. But technology moved ahead. The
old regulations became an excuse *not* to improve brakes, lights, or glass.
Most electrical equipment standards say that *if* there are exposed metal
parts, they must either be grounded, or you have to demonstrate that is is
essentially impossible for them to become "live" in the event of a failure.
Most cars are of course steel bodied. In this case, grounding the body is the
only reasonable way to meet such a requirement.
If you have a fiberglass bodied car (like Jerry Dycus's Freedom or the Sunrise
I'm working on), there is no steel frame to ground. But there certainly will be
many metal parts. Whether these metal parts need to be grounded or not depends
on whether anyone can touch them, and whether there is any way for them to
become electrically "live".
It's pretty common nowdays for manufacturers to go out of their way to avoid
exposed metal parts. Almost everything you touch is plastic or some other
nonmetallic material. Even cars have gone a long way in this direction. How
much metal can you find on a dashboard any more?
Electrical parts inside a nonmetallic box or conduit don't need to be grounded
because they are impossible to touch. This could include batteries in a box,
parts inside a controller, etc.
Or, metal parts that have no electrical function don't need to be grounded.
This could include things like wheel rims, suspension parts, door handles,
hinges, trim, etc.
--
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it." -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think fate was on our side this past weekend. Here is the story:
Derek and I rolled into Chandler on Thursday afternoon. We located
the track and then stopped for fuel. As we were fueling the truck at
$2.60 per gallon, the big sign above us switched prices to $2.75 pre
gallon. We started fueling just in time to get the lower price. This
happened to us TWICE on the trip from Denver.
Wait, it gets even better.
Derek then convinces me to take the rig to the car wash since it was
filthy and we were going to be on TV. On the last trip, an oil line
broke and I sprayed 6 quarts of oil all over the outside of the
camper. We got directions to the nearest U-do-it car wash. After we
cleaned the track and camper, (and discovered it actually had big
blue stripes on the side under the oil slick,) we decided to look for
a place to have a nice dinner (NOT in the RV.) We pulled into the
shopping center near the car wash on the corner of Chandler and
Kyrene. I asked Derek, 'What do think looks better, the barbecue
joint, or the sports pub?" Derek picked the sports pub.
When we walked in, and it was like the twilight zone. Completely and
utterly by chance, we were in the birthplace of NEDRA. It had changed
owners, and was a sports bar now, but it was the same place that we
had all met back in 1996. It was called "Hits" back then. I walked
out onto the patio where we ate pizza and watched the electric bar
stool racers play dodge'em with the parking lot traffic.
We ate dinner and went to the track.
The next day, completely by chance, they parked us right next to a
240 volt NEMA 14-50 outlet. We were on the grid all weekend!
We were destined to set a NEDRA record at that event. :-)
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee, this is brilliant. How do I understand how much current might be
generated and how to size components? Are the motor leads simply connected to
battery via some type of contactor? I may have to rig a test setup and play
with this concept. Thanks!
----- Original Message ----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2007 12:44:39 PM
Subject: Re: Basic rectification question
From: Frank John
> Thanks for the input everyone. I'm trying to come up with a quick and
> dirty way of using relatively inexpensive off-the-shelf components to
> make a "Mt. Washington" regen system... 144 or 156 volt...
Aha; now it makes a little more sense.
You can build a "quick and dirty" regen system with an ordinary AC induction
motor, a big load capacitor (to make it an induction generator), and a bridge
rectifier. Such a system has no way to control the amount of regen you get
(except by shifting). But it automatically starts regen as soon as the AC motor
reaches the speed where the peak of its AC voltage exceeds the battery pack
voltage. And, it automatically stops generating if the regen current gets too
high (where the capacitors no longer keep the power factor leading).
If you use a normal 120vac 60hz induction motor rated at 3450 rpm with a 144vdc
pack, it will start generating at around 3000 rpm. Charging current will rise
as the speed increases, and will peak at around 4000 rpm where it will abruptly
stop generating. So, you have to shift to keep the rpm in this 3000-4000 rpm
range.
If these limitations are acceptable, it's certainly an easy setup!
--
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it." -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377
____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss an email again!
Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don,
As a retired power company engineer I have been involved in extensive
testing on this subject. The levels of voltage and available fault currents
involved in an electric vehicle come nowhere close to fitting the criteria
for 'Arc Flash & Arc Blast'
The voltages that are found in an electric vehicle pack are D.C. and no
where near high enough to have a sustained arc (it is possible to arc weld
with a D.C. pack, but that requires a continuous feeding of material that is
continuously melted away). What will occur in an EV will normally be a
momentary flash at best. This can be 'exciting', but in itself will not do
much damage. This type of arc CAN cause some very small amount material to
be expelled, so remember to always wear protective goggles while working on
an EV.
What is more dangerous is a 'bolted fault'. This is what happens when a tool
falls across two terminals and is welded in place or two wires come together
that shouldn't. Because this type of mid-pack event has no fuses in the
circuit the current will immediately go well above what the batteries are
capable of handling which will cause the batteries to heat rapidly until one
of more of the batteries will rupture (explode). This can be a very
expensive and dangerous event that can even result in fire, but again is not
'Arc Flash or Arc Blast'. For this reason all tools should be fully taped
with only one end exposed (that means you can't use both ends of an open/box
end wrench).
Just like driving or walking across a busy intersection, you should take
relevant precautions when working with EVs, but not be afraid to do so.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 6:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Arc Flash & Ark Blast Warning !!!!!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, the copies of "Car and Driver" are flying off the news stands NOW.
But Wait... Let me "slap the Racks" a little ...Here is a NEW MOTORTREND
And lo and Behold on page 80 thru 84 Our Comrad in EV ARMS..
Robert ( Jim ) James Woolsey Jr. as in the movie WKtEC
A full PAGE picture of our "OIL WARRIOR"
and the heading goes on...
" This Man
Ran the CIA,
Fought the
Cold War,
And Averted
Nuculear
Armageddon.
NOW HE
SAYS THAT
IF YOU WANT
TO BEAT
BIN LADEN,
BUY A PRIUS.
and the article goes on to talk of PLUG IN Hybrids and all other things
Good and ELECTRIC !!
A must read....
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is incredibly inspirational. There really is no such thing as
coincidences.
Any electric barstools left? That sounds like fun!
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Stranger than fiction in Chandler, AZ
From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, April 03, 2007 4:19 pm
To: [email protected]
I think fate was on our side this past weekend. Here is the story:
Derek and I rolled into Chandler on Thursday afternoon. We located
the track and then stopped for fuel. As we were fueling the truck at
$2.60 per gallon, the big sign above us switched prices to $2.75 pre
gallon. We started fueling just in time to get the lower price. This
happened to us TWICE on the trip from Denver.
Wait, it gets even better.
Derek then convinces me to take the rig to the car wash since it was
filthy and we were going to be on TV. On the last trip, an oil line
broke and I sprayed 6 quarts of oil all over the outside of the
camper. We got directions to the nearest U-do-it car wash. After we
cleaned the track and camper, (and discovered it actually had big
blue stripes on the side under the oil slick,) we decided to look for
a place to have a nice dinner (NOT in the RV.) We pulled into the
shopping center near the car wash on the corner of Chandler and
Kyrene. I asked Derek, 'What do think looks better, the barbecue
joint, or the sports pub?" Derek picked the sports pub.
When we walked in, and it was like the twilight zone. Completely and
utterly by chance, we were in the birthplace of NEDRA. It had changed
owners, and was a sports bar now, but it was the same place that we
had all met back in 1996. It was called "Hits" back then. I walked
out onto the patio where we ate pizza and watched the electric bar
stool racers play dodge'em with the parking lot traffic.
We ate dinner and went to the track.
The next day, completely by chance, they parked us right next to a
240 volt NEMA 14-50 outlet. We were on the grid all weekend!
We were destined to set a NEDRA record at that event. :-)
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just bought a Prius. I like the car in most respects, but only get 41 mpg
in city driving. I expected a little better, not necessarily the sticker
figure of 60mpg. The "X" car challenge won't use a course that generates
optomistic and unachievable MPG results.
As the next evolution of the Prius, I would like to see an ultra efficient
diesel engine. Of course, I would love convert to plug in assist, but voids
all Toyota warranties.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You should check the archives of Prius_Technical_Stuff yahoo group.
Tons of info why your MPG may be low (including the nut behind the wheel)
and how to cure, errr - learn how to drive a Hybrid for efficiency.
I own a classic one and get over 47 MPG in mixed driving.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of George Swartz
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 6:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
Just bought a Prius. I like the car in most respects, but only get 41 mpg
in city driving. I expected a little better, not necessarily the sticker
figure of 60mpg. The "X" car challenge won't use a course that generates
optomistic and unachievable MPG results.
As the next evolution of the Prius, I would like to see an ultra efficient
diesel engine. Of course, I would love convert to plug in assist, but voids
all Toyota warranties.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The idea is when you _first_ charge and equalize them,
to pick up on these subtle differences. They will
continue for the life of the pack, and occur for a
variety of reasons. If the differences continue to be
fairly similar, no big deal. If a _different_ battery
were now the lowest/highest/etc. you would be assured
that either you are overcharging and destroying one,
or undercharging one and it needs to be eq'd.
Sign me, "Learned the hard way".
TTYL,
--- Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My pack consists of 20 6v flooded lead acid
> batteries. When I do a
> check to see if the batteries are staying balanced I
> find that 19 look
> real close like +/- .01v. But there is always this
> same stray which is
> around .05-.10v higher than the norm. I was
> expecting to see one or two
> lag behind and would charge them up but I didn't
> expect to see one
> higher than all the rest. Does this mean anything?
>
> I've tried taking a 6v VW headlight and bleeding off
> the excess but it
> still reads high the next cycle I test. Note: I
> usually test in the
> morning after they've charged up overnight.
>
> Rich
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, your are correct about the "nut behind the wheel" My confused main
point was that a diesel ICE and refinement of the Prius could push its MPG
from 50 towards the X=car 100 MPG goal. After all, the VW rabbit disel of a
few decades ago got an actual 50 MPG.
On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:08:46 -0700 , Cor van de Water wrote
> You should check the archives of Prius_Technical_Stuff yahoo group.
> Tons of info why your MPG may be low (including the nut behind the
> wheel) and how to cure, errr - learn how to drive a Hybrid for efficiency.
>
> I own a classic one and get over 47 MPG in mixed driving.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of George Swartz Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 6:01 PM To:
> [email protected] Subject: RE: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set
> for automotive innovation
>
> Just bought a Prius. I like the car in most respects, but only get
> 41 mpg in city driving. I expected a little better, not necessarily
> the sticker figure of 60mpg. The "X" car challenge won't use a
> course that generates optomistic and unachievable MPG results.
>
> As the next evolution of the Prius, I would like to see an ultra efficient
> diesel engine. Of course, I would love convert to plug in assist,
> but voids all Toyota warranties.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Any electric barstools left? That sounds like fun!
This made me think about the one that used to hang around EV Parts.
I thought folks might enjoy these shots from Earth Day in Port Townsend, WA
in 2004.
A few hi-res photos (2304 x 1728) -
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/PT09.jpg
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/BS01.jpg
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/PT10.jpg
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/PT11.jpg
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/PT12.jpg
Lots more related photos from 2004 including lots of Gone Postal starting
here-
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
~~~~~~
Roy LeMeur
_________________________________________________________________
Download Messenger. Join the im Initiative. Help make a difference today.
http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_APR07
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can you cut the VIN of a salvage bike and put it on yours?
For the type of insurance you are looking for there is
hardly any interest what it is, as long as it looks OK.
My S-10 EV truck's insurance still says it has a 4-banger,
because that is what the VIN says. Farmers' representative
is OK with that - I told him it is an EV.
Also my Salvage/rebuilt Prius was no problem to insure,
as I only wanted to insure liability, not its value.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Eidson, Mark
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 8:21 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Insurance
I'm just interested in meeting the insurance requirements for getting the
vehicle licensed, Minimum levels of financial responsibility are:
$15,000 bodily injury liability for one person and $30,000 for two or more
persons $10,000 property damage liability
Will this make a difference? The only parts from a gas powered bike are the
wheels and brakes, everything else on the chassis has been fabricated. me
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Bath
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 5:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Insurance
In many respects, I'd just consider it like any other
EV:
a) Get a stated value policy, so that if a car takes it out, you'll get the
amount of the electronics, not the amount that a Honda ___ gas burning
motorcycle is worth.
b) Few companies will insure a conversion, so options will be limited.
I'm with Allstate.
peace,
--- "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have just about completed a built from scratch electric motorcycle.
> I've been looking for insurance coverage and have not found anything
> specific. Does the list have any recommendations for insuring such a
> vehicle? Thanks, me.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 1:24 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: plug in prius conversion
>
> Hi Rich,
>
> Thanks for your comments on the V-Boost PHEV description.
>
> > Boy this sounds famillure..
> That is what I thought when I saw your first postings on your PHEV
> work about a year ago!
> I had thought of the idea in September 2005. I placed an order in
> early November 05 for an intelligent (microprocessor controlled and
> programmable to follow the learning curve) boost converter based on an
> intelligent buck/boost regulator that was then finishing its
> development phase. This PHEV project was pushed one year behind first
> by a boost converter delivery 8 months later than expected.
> Then it was not
> working/surviving at this application's operating voltage.
> Consequently, I had to start over from scratch to develop this boost
> converter myself in November 2006.
>
> > Keep in mind the usefullness of lead Acid packs.
> it gets folks out
> > there really taking Gas off line and using the
> Grid...
> > If you make the battery pack stand alone.. then
> you just remove the
> > Lead, and swap out to Lithium or..What ever fits
> the customers wishes.
> Agreed. A low entry cost in lead, and flexible operating voltage
> ranges for the boost converter make it easier to change and upgrade
> battery packs for both our systems.
>
> > All the other stuff.. can really add up the cost
> of install. Don't
> > under estimate the costs of The little stuff.
> > It's not little.
> Ain't that the truth!
>
> > Now I have to make 5 interlock boxes.. They are
> the relay boxes that
> flip
> > you from Grid charge to PHEV drive mode. Under
> CAN-view control and
> pass the
> > canview drive signals to the PFC charger. These
> little babies have
> about
> > $600 worth of high reliability contactors in them.
> That's my cost mind
> > you... This is a spendy box.. that basiciy does a
> cable change over
> that
> > takes about 30 seconds if you do it by hand. Ryan
> and I ran all last
> year
> > with the cheap Anderson conenctor version... I
> wish there was a
> easier
> > way to flip 8 condcutors with 40 amps at over 240
> volts DC.
> >
> > Most of this stuff is needed no matter how you do
> your Phev Prius.
> If a separate charger is used instead, then much of the expensive
> stuff and cabling to "flip you from Grid charge to PHEV drive mode" is
> not required, the cabling becomes simpler, and the savings could then
> pay for a charger This would likely be an isolated charger and a
> lower power one, of course, for that dollar amount. The approach that
> provides the best value and results depends on the weighting put on
> the various factors. If fast recharge and multiple charge/discharge
> cycles per day is a priority for a particular customer, then the
> double use of your high-power charger will likely be less expensive
> than using a PFC charger with my V-Boost system.
>
> > I have 3 PiPrius kits inprocess at the moment..
> It's Fun to have a
> parking
> > lot full of 'em.
> I bet! It is great to learn of this in action...
>
> You have my respect and appreciation for all that you are doing in the
> EV and PHEV areas.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Doug
>
> >
> > From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: 2007/04/02 Mon PM 12:32:38 EDT
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Subject: Re: plug in prius conversion
> >
> > Boy this sounds famillure..
> Snip
> >
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD has my '92 sedan, as well
as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
________________________________________________________________________
____________
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Bill
Congrats again on a well deserved but long sought
after record. To find yourself so close to the 7's
has got to be some sweet icing on the cake 8^)
By the way, I see you opened the motor and pulled the
endcap there fore voiding all warranties so witten in
article 5 on page 15 of the small print, LMAO 8^P
So how many volts and amps where you able to throw at
them before they melted? 8^o
Just so I can throw out accurate numbers and stuff
(and being I saw Car and Drive quote Gone Postals
launch at 1G) what G force do you think Killacycle
pulls doing a 1.19 (or better) 60' time??
Anyway I was just reading your blog and checking out
pics. The motors didn't like the extra 110 cells so
much 8^( LMAO! You know it'd been a better fight if
you wouldn't have brought all your extra friends 8^P
Anyway I saw you got the Wayland invitational on your
books so I'll be there motor tech'ing for you guys so
I'll bring me up some insta repair stuff and make sure
you get those 7's or I'll kis... no wait I better not
go there 8^)
One last thing, I'd like to hear how it felt, not the
stats, facts, or figuers but just what it was like to
finally take home the slips?
Anyway I look forward to seing you guys at Portland
this summer.
Totally pumped for you guys 8^)
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> --- Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> When I do a check to see if the batteries are staying balanced
...
> I've tried taking a 6v VW headlight and bleeding off
> the excess but it still reads high the next cycle I test.
> I usually test in the morning after they've charged up overnight.
I always checked for balance after a days' drive, with a load on
the pack (usually the heater, ~15A). It takes a very tiny SOC
difference to be visible when they're charged, but under load
you get to see the real picture. After doing that about a dozen
times you discover there's really no point in checking, since
there's nothing you can do to change any imbalance. Set up an
equalizing regimen, drive the EV, and replace the pack when it
craps out. Short of putting batt regs on your floodies, you can't
do anything to one battery without doing it to the whole pack.
Having had half a dozen or so packs through my EV, I've seen the
effects of proper battery balance and am convinced that some sort
of BMS or equalizer, even on floodies, is probably worth the time
and expense to implement. Seems that you either kill a pack over-
charging it trying to keep it equalized, or kill it one by one as
the batteries diverge over time.
Mark "EV Basher" Brueggemann
Albuquerque, NM
S-10 EV
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At 07:22 PM 3/04/07 -0700, you wrote:
Hey Bill
Congrats again on a well deserved but long sought
after record. To find yourself so close to the 7's
has got to be some sweet icing on the cake 8^)
By the way, I see you opened the motor and pulled the
endcap there fore voiding all warranties so witten in
article 5 on page 15 of the small print, LMAO 8^P
G'day Jim, All
Hey Jim, from the photos it looks as though they may have taken the arc out
along the corners of the brush holders, got a plan 'b' for beefing up the
insulation rating of the holders?
Seriously though, it looks from the comm photo as though they got a
brush-to-brush event, the even-ness of the damage seems to be a result of
your hard work and care - there wasn't anywhere for the arc plasma to carry
to, except the opposite brush (applause for the GMBitW - Greatest Motor
Builder in the World).
You'll need some ceramic arc guards to survive something like that - I
don't see the little 'flag' of Nomex doing more than add to the soot as an
event like that approaches!
Here is a challenge for you, Jim - a ceramic arc chute, with gas ports that
they can blow CO2 down against the comm and out under the end of the arc
chute - chill the comm and blow away any starting arc? Another hundred
volts at least! The biggest challenge would be getting it in there with all
that other "stuff"! Reckon you can do it?
Can the GMBitW continue to improve his Xtreem duty motors? Staaay tuuned
race faanss...
Regards
[Technik] James
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Lots of people are talking about balancing between batterys latley and i was
just wondering if it could be just one or two bad cells within the battery
that is causing the battery to self destruct?Would it be more reliable to
have individual cells like they do for lithium ion batts? That way you could
monitor the individual cells right?
_________________________________________________________________
http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!420
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Hey all
Well I'd searched high and low on my side of the
mountain for a copy of C&D without luck. I decided
I'd drive over to Portland to see if John had left any
on the shelves over there. Coming into the outskirts
I saw a place and stopped, 24 different car mags and
not 1 C&D! My first stop was at a big Fred Meyer
Dist. center. I saw there was a Crown truck where you
park (I always ask them if they know John and if so to
smack him for me 8^).
The head guys name is Wally down at FM and he's
totally into the EV thing and always asks whats going
on. I'd been sharing this weekend race reports and
the C&D thing with him while I was checking out this
Crown motor they had on the bench. When the crown guy
(Eric) walks up he's kinda looking at me funny being I
had the whole volture wing hood thing going on with
his motor, LMAO!
He had inserted this extra shaft extension into the
motor (female spline, no DE bearing) I was using to
spin the motor. He was probably thinking, Okay who's
this dork and why does he have his hand on my shaft!
Including him into the EV stuff I asked if he knew
Wayland and if so could he smack him for me? He says
"you're the motor guy" Anyway it was pretty funny.
I shot John a call just to say hi but he was BS'ing
with his boss and asked if I could call back when
closer. I see another place, I stop, and again not a
single copy. What was I thinking this place was way
to close to Johns house. I shoot up to my northern
customers. I started sharing some Killacycle news to
a guy I know and some new guy asks where's the video?
I told him YouTube under Killacycle. I start to
finish my story when I hear BVVVvvvVvvvVVv,birt!
I look over and say you got it playing right there...
Just as I'm saying it the guy starts screaming "OMG
come look at this... I sometimes feel like the
Electric Zorro, dash in carve a big E into their
chests and dash away leaving only an EV grin to show I
was there, LMAO!
I shoot over to Dutchmans and meet with Keith on
Shawns motor shaft and had a little EVBS 8^) Okay
it's getting late as I shoot south. I shoot John a
call, no answer, nor to a second, I wave bye as I
cruise past his usual haunting grounds. Seeing a FM
store about 20ish miles from Johns house I stop, I run
to the rack and there all lined up is a fresh stack of
May issue Car and driver. I nabbed up 4 copies and
headed for the checkout.
When I walked up and handed her 4 of the same mags she
looks at me and says okay something specials going on,
do tell. I got all puffy chested like a peacock in a
room full of Pea's and told her I was part of an
article they ran 8^)
She says I want to see! Well I happened to know what
page already, hehe, so I popped right to it and quite
promptly showed it to her. Shes tells me "well I
ain't never met anyone famous before" I told her, Yeah
me neither 8^) Sometimes a kind word can really make
ones day 8^)
I had one last stop, did my business, showed off the
mag and headed off for home. I get a call from John,
hey you still close? Uhmmm no, okay cool come by for
lunch I'm starving, click. Okay fine, maybe he's at
Boyds coffee and I'll load up for the trip home. No
he's at a petfood place, damn! Luckily he was in fact
finished and we wen't straight to lunch at what 2:30?
We caught John's newest trainee up to speed as John
and I talked about all the cool stuff going on right
now. During lunch John tells me there are two motors
in the scrap bin at his work. I followed him over and
we yanked them on out and onto my truck. Two nice
little 6.7's Cool I got some stuff to work something
up for raffle at the Wayland invitational.
As I'm saying good bye to John my phone rings, it's
the wife saying her boss saw and bought me a copy of
C&D, LMAO!
I'm a little brain dead from the drive so I hope this
reads well, just had to share the fun, EV filled day I
had.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
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Roger Stockton wrote:
>I wouldn't ditch the Zivan too quickly. Their reputation for
>overcharging is based on using them with sealed batteries, but as long
>as you keep an eye on the water this isn't nearly as much an issue with
>floodeds. The NG1 actually erred on the side of slightly undercharging
>SCS225/30XHS type batteries, in my experience, but I don't know how the
>NG3 fares. The T1275s want to be charged more like T105s than group
>31s, since they are based on the same plates as the T105, so the NG3
>might need a different algorithm than has been being used with the
>SCS225s.
Unfortunatly Elcon unilaterally changes the algorithms in the Zivan chip
almost every batch you order from them. The original ones you had in the
Dynasty undercharged the 30XHS by a lot. A later version sometimes also
timed out prematurely, so on the following batch he removed the time out
feature entirely =:(( .
The NG3 has pot settings to trim the current and voltage (the chip does the
major range).
- John Foster
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So much of this really depends on how the car is driven. I own a Prius
and when I drive I get 35-45 miles per gallon when my wife drives she
gets 50-60. I have heard of people being able to get almost 100 miles
per gallon in a stock prius by pulsing the gas pedal. Hopefully their
goal of 100 miles per gallon will be met with a car that requires no
special driving technique to achieve it.
On Apr 3, 2007, at 6:24 PM, George Swartz wrote:
Thanks, your are correct about the "nut behind the wheel" My confused
main
point was that a diesel ICE and refinement of the Prius could push its
MPG
from 50 towards the X=car 100 MPG goal. After all, the VW rabbit
disel of a
few decades ago got an actual 50 MPG.
On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:08:46 -0700 , Cor van de Water wrote
You should check the archives of Prius_Technical_Stuff yahoo group.
Tons of info why your MPG may be low (including the nut behind the
wheel) and how to cure, errr - learn how to drive a Hybrid for
efficiency.
I own a classic one and get over 47 MPG in mixed driving.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of George Swartz Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 6:01 PM To:
[email protected] Subject: RE: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set
for automotive innovation
Just bought a Prius. I like the car in most respects, but only get
41 mpg in city driving. I expected a little better, not necessarily
the sticker figure of 60mpg. The "X" car challenge won't use a
course that generates optomistic and unachievable MPG results.
As the next evolution of the Prius, I would like to see an ultra
efficient
diesel engine. Of course, I would love convert to plug in assist,
but voids all Toyota warranties.
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In theory yes, in practice no. Not many people would be equipped to
measure a dozen cells on charge.
Say you do find a bad cell. Generally, you don't get ideal results in
mixing in a brand new cell with 11 old ones. Unless you're going to
order a single cell from a mfg, you might be talking about a cell that's
been sitting on the shelf for a year or two which is bad news for lead-acid.
In fact, when I found one bad 12V batt in a pack, I started using by
second pack exclusively, then that one had a batt go bad. I took them
apart and made one good one. It wasn't a really great pack. If I was
buying a new batt, I would not think of mixing a new one with an old
one. I'd just buy two and recycle the old "good" one or use it as a
portable power pack for my 12V car tire inflator, testing headlights, etc.
It's beside the point, since there are no really practical individual
cells like that on the market to make a pack out of. I mean there's
some cylindrical cells, the capacity is smaller than what we're
accustomed to so you might need 22 or 33 instead of 11. That won't fit-
cylindrical is much less space-efficient than a rectangular one with the
enclosure designed around it.
And no you can't cut up one of these packs to remove the bad cell.
Regrettably the construction will not allow that.
Danny
Tim Gamber wrote:
Lots of people are talking about balancing between batterys latley and
i was just wondering if it could be just one or two bad cells within
the battery that is causing the battery to self destruct?Would it be
more reliable to have individual cells like they do for lithium ion
batts? That way you could monitor the individual cells right?
_________________________________________________________________
http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!420
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I'm sure you'll find a way to get in touch with Ed if you hunt long
enough. But I doubt that he'll sell you a set of regs. He has told
others in the Sparrow group that they aren't available any more. It
seems like he's focusing all his efforts on his GAIA battery system and
his various plug-in-Prius work.
This is only my opinion, not based on any real knowledge. But I think
that most of the Sparrows have eventually been sold to people who are
maintaining them on their own. Most of them have changed hands three or
four times and only people with a deep-seated need for self punishment
or a degree in Electrical Engineering can really keep them running. As
they happen to fall into the hands of people who want to tinker with
them, or as they just fall apart completely, business for Ed and others
(like Alastair Dodwell in the Seattle area) is probably drying up.
- Jake Oshins
(Sparrow owner, budding amateur electrical engineer and self-punisher)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Doug Weathers
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 1:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: What happened to Ed Ang's (VReg mfg) email? (Bouncing now.)
On Apr 1, 2007, at 10:59 AM, robert mat wrote:
> Where can I buy Edward Ang's voltage regulators? His email
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> is bouncing back. Should I ask the Sparraw group?
Try checking the Contacts page on the company website:
<http://www.airlabcorp.com/>
There are several addresses listed.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://www.gdunge.com/>
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Hello Dan
What is the Amperage that a fully charged pack can deliver for 2/5 of a
second?
Most of the material did not melt it was vaporized. I have years of welding
wire welding, gas, and stick. None are as hot or cause a flash of heat that
radiated out like this. Sound wise striking an arc stick welding is not even
close.
Your comparing to driving and walking. Our collision business has fixed over
20,000 vehicles and half of them were no at fault.
Walking is not much safer I thought you might be surprised
check out this link _http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pedbike/issues/whodies.htm_
(http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pedbike/issues/whodies.htm)
I have personally seen three people hit on our street.
You can do everything right and yet accidents happen.
Don
In a message dated 4/3/2007 4:45:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Don,
As a retired power company engineer I have been involved in extensive
testing on this subject. The levels of voltage and available fault currents
involved in an electric vehicle come nowhere close to fitting the criteria
for 'Arc Flash & Arc Blast'
The voltages that are found in an electric vehicle pack are D.C. and no
where near high enough to have a sustained arc (it is possible to arc weld
with a D.C. pack, but that requires a continuous feeding of material that is
continuously melted away). What will occur in an EV will normally be a
momentary flash at best. This can be 'exciting', but in itself will not do
much damage. This type of arc CAN cause some very small amount material to
be expelled, so remember to always wear protective goggles while working on
an EV.
What is more dangerous is a 'bolted fault'. This is what happens when a tool
falls across two terminals and is welded in place or two wires come together
that shouldn't. Because this type of mid-pack event has no fuses in the
circuit the current will immediately go well above what the batteries are
capable of handling which will cause the batteries to heat rapidly until one
of more of the batteries will rupture (explode). This can be a very
expensive and dangerous event that can even result in fire, but again is not
'Arc Flash or Arc Blast'. For this reason all tools should be fully taped
with only one end exposed (that means you can't use both ends of an open/box
end wrench).
Just like driving or walking across a busy intersection, you should take
relevant precautions when working with EVs, but not be afraid to do so.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 6:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Arc Flash & Ark Blast Warning !!!!!
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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