EV Digest 6634
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: WILL HAVE BASIC CLAMPERS FOR SALE WAS Re: Anybody have schematic
for an $8 voltage clamper/limiter, said to work well?
by robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Pack Balance?- VRLA vs floodies
by robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Pack Balance?- VRLA vs floodies
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Arc Flash & Ark Blast Warning !!!!!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: OverVoltage
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: transmission in S10
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Motor recommendations
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) A Call for Vehicles for the Power of DC
by Joseph Lado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) FW: The Force isn't with me
by "Mike Wyman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Pack Balance?- VRLA vs floodies
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Pack Balance?- VRLA vs floodies
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Motor recommendations
by "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Miles Automotive $30 000 sedan
by Tom Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: A Call for Vehicles for the Power of DC
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: WILL HAVE BASIC CLAMPERS FOR SALE WAS Re: Anybody have schematic
for an $8 voltage clamper/limiter, said to work well?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) WILL HAVE BASIC CLAMPERS FOR SALE WAS Re: Anybody have schematic for
an $8
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Pack Balance?- VRLA vs floodies
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) WILL HAVE BASIC CLAMPERS FOR SALE WAS Re: Anybody have schematic for
an $8
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Forgot to add:
We're using a particular alligator-jaw connector as the hookup to the battery
terminals. That's one reason for the higher cost. Makes these clampers much
faster to relocate, as needed. (Wear safety gear for eyes and face, as sparks
will happen as they are installed, like any other battery balancers
installation. Could cause a battery explosion, potentially. That is the main
reason we're using sealed lead acid batteries - very little risk of explosions
- one VEVA member lost an eye with a flooded battery explosion.)
Rob Matthies
robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Thanks for all your replies. We've just
built basic, non-digital, screwdriver-adjustable basic battery voltage
regulators. Works, but:
- Parts cost came out to $100 for 6
- A fan will be likely be needed, as the ceramic resistor, on these basic
clampers, with a 20W 5K certamic resistor load, the ceramic resistor gets to
over 195F on the surface, when 1A is going into the circuit. (The ceramic
resistor receives less than 8V.) We'll try it with a 12V 25W lightbulb next.
- If anybody else needs them, I can have extra voltage regulators made made up.
Contact me off list. (I didn't hear back from Ed Ang on his VReg devices,
despite many attempts to email him, even through his customers, at least one of
which said they forwarded my email to Ang. I assume he's too busy to build
them.)
- The ceramic resistor (load) will be standing on a heat sink, after reading
the caution on Ed Ang's installation PDF (on his VReg clampers) to not push the
resistors down. I'm also inclined to make the components "quake proof" after
reading about the problems with vibration on the E-Max's controller and/or
chargers.
- IMHO, the Zivan battery charger doesn't detect battery State Of Charge
correctly, and was cooking one or more batteries in our gel/AGM battery string
even during the bulk charge phase.
- We're putting in 2 clampers/limiters per battery. One 2A unit didn't pull
down the voltage to the limit during the Zivan NG3's bulk charge phase.
Cheers,
Rob Matthies
Cheers,
Bob
Mike Phillips wrote: Mine will do that. It's the only one around called a
clamper.
When I left out the 1meg resistor it made the clamper blink faster the
more it tried to regulate. That made it easier to see in a group of 50
of them that I had mounted. Otherwise the led just stays on longer each
time it blinks to do the regulating.
This schematic and parts values were based on a single sided board with
surface mount parts.
http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/Clamper.pdf
Mike
--- robert mat wrote:
> Anybody have schematic for an $8 voltage clamper/limiter, said to
> work well?
>
> Someone said that they built a voltage regulator that handled 5A or
> more, for only $8 in parts, can be built from a proto board. Does
> anybody have the plans for this?
>
> The only caveat was that a heat sink would have to put on top of one
> of the parts, I'm informed.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a PS3 game guru.
> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo!
> Games.
>
>
The island-country of Kiribati will be sunk in 15 years
by climate change. This may be one solution.
Newspapers and TV news coverage of
our 'no cost' battery for electric vehicles:
http://tv-news-revived-batteries.blogspot.com/
---------------------------------
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Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
The island-country of Kiribati will be sunk in 15 years
by climate change. This may be one solution.
Newspapers and TV news coverage of
our 'no cost' battery for electric vehicles:
http://tv-news-revived-batteries.blogspot.com/
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just my two cents: Equalization shortens battery life. I don't do it on my EV's.
Phil Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Mike-
The report that you provided a link for applies to sealed ( VRLA) batteries
:
"This paper
reviews battery behavior and performance related to the
equalization problem, in the context of vavle-regulated lead-acid
batteries. "
I think it is pretty well understood that sealed batteries cannot be
effectively balanced by equalization. That is why many VRLA battery users
use passive or active regulators.
Rich is using flooded batteries. These will generally respond well to
equalization - one of the advantages of using floodeds.
Phil
>From: Mike Phillips
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Pack Balance?
>Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 06:57:00 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Hi Rich,
>
>Without regulation you cannot equalize a pack for very long by just
>overcharging it.
>
>Here is a report on battery equalization that a university did.
>
>http://energy.ece.uiuc.edu/Balog/images/intelec02.pdf
>
>
>
>In general the NREL is a great source of real battery test data.
>
>http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/energystorage/publications.html
>
>
>
>Mike
>
>
>--- Rich Long wrote:
>
> > My pack consists of 20 6v flooded lead acid batteries. When I do a
> > check to see if the batteries are staying balanced I find that 19
> > look
> > real close like +/- .01v. But there is always this same stray which
> > is
> > around .05-.10v higher than the norm. I was expecting to see one or
> > two
> > lag behind and would charge them up but I didn't expect to see one
> > higher than all the rest. Does this mean anything?
> >
> > I've tried taking a 6v VW headlight and bleeding off the excess but
> > it
> > still reads high the next cycle I test. Note: I usually test in the
> > morning after they've charged up overnight.
> >
> > Rich
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian.
http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE
The island-country of Kiribati will be sunk in 15 years
by climate change. This may be one solution.
Newspapers and TV news coverage of
our 'no cost' battery for electric vehicles:
http://tv-news-revived-batteries.blogspot.com/
---------------------------------
Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On my 10 battery 120V pack of Hawker Genesis 26AH batteries I was
planning on using a battery tender 10 bank charger to equalize my pack
daily. The tender would be mounted in the car and each lead go directly
to the terminals of its own battery. Does anyone think that this method
will help keep my batteries at peak?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Phil Marino
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 10:18
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Pack Balance?- VRLA vs floodies
Mike-
The report that you provided a link for applies to sealed ( VRLA)
batteries
:
"This paper
reviews battery behavior and performance related to the equalization
problem, in the context of vavle-regulated lead-acid batteries. "
I think it is pretty well understood that sealed batteries cannot be
effectively balanced by equalization. That is why many VRLA battery
users use passive or active regulators.
Rich is using flooded batteries. These will generally respond well to
equalization - one of the advantages of using floodeds.
Phil
>From: Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Pack Balance?
>Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 06:57:00 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Hi Rich,
>
>Without regulation you cannot equalize a pack for very long by just
>overcharging it.
>
>Here is a report on battery equalization that a university did.
>
>http://energy.ece.uiuc.edu/Balog/images/intelec02.pdf
>
>
>
>In general the NREL is a great source of real battery test data.
>
>http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/energystorage/publications.html
>
>
>
>Mike
>
>
>--- Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > My pack consists of 20 6v flooded lead acid batteries. When I do a
> > check to see if the batteries are staying balanced I find that 19
> > look real close like +/- .01v. But there is always this same stray
> > which is around .05-.10v higher than the norm. I was expecting to
> > see one or two lag behind and would charge them up but I didn't
> > expect to see one higher than all the rest. Does this mean
> > anything?
> >
> > I've tried taking a 6v VW headlight and bleeding off the excess but
> > it still reads high the next cycle I test. Note: I usually test in
> > the morning after they've charged up overnight.
> >
> > Rich
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by
Experian.
http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTE
RAVERAGE
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Freidberg wrote:
Besides additional cost, why not market a battery with
an internal fuse or breaker that interrupts current
flow in the event of an abrupt zero to short circuit
current spike?
This is commonly done on battery packs for laptop computers, camcorders,
cellphones, etc. The fuse in the battery pack is there to cut power in
case something in the product shorts. Batteries can deliver so much
power that without such a fuse you could easily start a fire.
Car batteries traditionally don't have fuses. Thus we have a lot more
car electrical fires. For whatever reasons, designers have decided to
save $1 per car for a fuse and accept some cars burning up every once in
a while.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Hankins wrote:
Thanks for the info Jim.
So the rating is the voltages/current and time span that the motor can run
at and is guaranteed not to let its smoke out.
But, can I take a motor that is rated 36/48v and run it on a 120 system
(pack)?
Generally, yes. The controller regulates how much of that pack voltage
actually makes it to the motor. The only time the motor sees the full
pack voltage is if a) the controller is at full throttle, and b) the
motor's rpm is high enough so the controller is not in current limit.
This won't happen very often; usually only for a few seconds when
accelerating, just before you shift to the next gear..
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Ben,
One thing I forgot to add to the data I sent you, was the calculation of the
overall gear ratios you need for a certain amount of EV weight.
You can also get this info from Uve's Electric Vehicle Calculator too from
http://www.geocities.com/hempev/EVCalculator.html?200629
In inputting different data, proportional to different weighted vehicles the
weight to overall gear ratio which would have about the same performance is:
Weight of EV Overall gear ratio Overall gear ratio
In 1st gear In Final gear (best)
8000 lbs 20:1 6.50:1
7000 lbs 17.5:1 6.14:1
6000 lbs 15:1 5.57:1
5000 lbs 12.5 5.38:1
4000 lbs 10:1 5.14:1
3000 lbs 7:1 4.56:1
2000 lbs 5:1 4.11:1
1000 lbs 2.5:1 3.90:1
The final gear ratios are the ring and pinion gear ratios closes to the ones
that will fit in a GM or Ford vehicle.
My EV was at one time weigh 7850 lbs that has a 1st gear ratio of 3.5 and
differential ratio of 5.57. 3.5 x 5.57 = 19.495:1 overall which at 6000
rpm, was be able to go 92 mph using 3000 lbs of 300 amp cobalt cells.
Today the vehicle weighs 6860 lbs using the same gearing, but the maximum
speed is 72 mph at 4700 rpm using 260 ah Trojan T-145's batteries.
The formula for calculating mph, gear ratio, rpm, tire size is:
RPM x Wheel Circumference
MPH = ----------------------------
Overall gear ratio x 1056
or
MPH x Overall gear ratio x 1056
RPM = -------------------------------
Wheel Circumference
In a EV, the Top Speed will be limited by the battery voltage as it may sag
too much.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 7:50 AM
Subject: transmission in S10
> Roland,
> Hmm,
> Driving today, I realized, going over 25 mph in 2nd gear wasn't all that
> bad for vibration or noise. However, I remember why I switch to 3rd at
> that point and to 4th at 45 mph. (Because I run out of torque
> (terminology?)
>
> So, I can't accelerate any more past 25-30 mph if I don't shift up to 3rd
> gear. (with my raptor 600, T-125's and ADC 9")
>
> sound normal?
>
> Ben
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Paul childreypa wrote:
> > You mentioned building a contactor controller. I have looked as hard as
> > I can for information on building one. I found a little information, but
> > I really need a detailed schematic and walkthrough. A how to page would
> > be perfect but all I can find are some bits and pieces on the theory.
> > Everyone says they have built one or are going to, but I can't find much
> > good info. I would love some info on how you plan to build yours if
> > that's possible.
Hello Paul,
To find out how to design, engineer, build a contact controllers and the
related resistance and control switches, go to to the library and see if you
can find a Standard Handbook for Electrical Engineers in the early editions.
There is sections on designs of motors, batteries, electric vehicles,
electric trains, electrical and electronic circuits, and the completed math
to calculated what you want.
These hand books are over 3000 pages long, so check it out first before you
run to a book store to order one unless you are going for you EE.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The members of EVA/DC always come out in force to the Power of DC and we
typically get a university to come and a high school as well to show up. I
would like to see more EVs comming to the event. If you live with in a half
days drive of Hagerstown, Maryland, please come bring your EV to the event. If
you know of a high school that has put together an EV, encourage them to come
to the event. If there is someone on the list that works for a university that
has a solar vehicle, even really old ones, push them to come for the event.
They don't have to drag race their vehicle or race it in the EVautoX. Just by
being there it will make the event more interesting for the spectators. The
event is for us EV people, but it is also a way to show the general public EVs.
The more EVs the public sees and the greater variety the more they are going to
want to join in by buying EVs themselves, supporting EV race teams and events
or getting involved with converting regular cars to EVs. So,
if you've got it, flaunt it.
To register for the Power of DC follow the link below.
http://www.powerofdc.com/lets_race.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
_____
From: Mike Wyman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:03 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: The Force isn't with me
All,
Feedback time.
I have been driving a Solectia Force for eight years with little or no
problem.
Lately, tho, it's been crashing on me at 15Ah into its 50Ah cycle. I
replaced the old Solectria Charger with a New Zivan charger, and replaced
four of the batteries in the battery pack that seemed to be taking less
charge than they should.
Result: nada. The problem persists and I'm wondering if it could be a
controller problem, or maybe I need to replace all the batteries. The
problem has me and my Force mechanic stumped, as we've done the diagnostics
on the batteries and the charger and as far as we can tell, it should be
running fine.
Any Force folks out there have a problem like this? What would you recommend
to diagnose and fix it? Any other cause for such an early discharge you can
think of?
-Mike.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Please explain!
Mike
-- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Just my two cents: Equalization shortens battery life. I don't do it
on my EV's.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Phil Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Mike-
>
> The report that you provided a link for applies to sealed ( VRLA)
batteries
> :
>
> "This paper
> reviews battery behavior and performance related to the
> equalization problem, in the context of vavle-regulated lead-acid
> batteries. "
>
>
> I think it is pretty well understood that sealed batteries cannot be
> effectively balanced by equalization. That is why many VRLA battery
users
> use passive or active regulators.
>
> Rich is using flooded batteries. These will generally respond well to
> equalization - one of the advantages of using floodeds.
>
> Phil
>
>
> >From: Mike Phillips
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Re: Pack Balance?
> >Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 06:57:00 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Hi Rich,
> >
> >Without regulation you cannot equalize a pack for very long by just
> >overcharging it.
> >
> >Here is a report on battery equalization that a university did.
> >
> >http://energy.ece.uiuc.edu/Balog/images/intelec02.pdf
> >
> >
> >
> >In general the NREL is a great source of real battery test data.
> >
> >http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/energystorage/publications.html
> >
> >
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
> >--- Rich Long wrote:
> >
> > > My pack consists of 20 6v flooded lead acid batteries. When I do a
> > > check to see if the batteries are staying balanced I find that 19
> > > look
> > > real close like +/- .01v. But there is always this same stray which
> > > is
> > > around .05-.10v higher than the norm. I was expecting to see one or
> > > two
> > > lag behind and would charge them up but I didn't expect to see one
> > > higher than all the rest. Does this mean anything?
> > >
> > > I've tried taking a 6v VW headlight and bleeding off the excess but
> > > it
> > > still reads high the next cycle I test. Note: I usually test in the
> > > morning after they've charged up overnight.
> > >
> > > Rich
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by
Experian.
>
http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE
>
>
>
>
>
> The island-country of Kiribati will be sunk in 15 years
> by climate change. This may be one solution.
>
> Newspapers and TV news coverage of
> our 'no cost' battery for electric vehicles:
> http://tv-news-revived-batteries.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
> Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At least one EV owner here already does that. Maybe they will chime
in. I think it's a great idea.
Mike
-- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dewey, Jody R ATC
COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On my 10 battery 120V pack of Hawker Genesis 26AH batteries I was
> planning on using a battery tender 10 bank charger to equalize my pack
> daily. The tender would be mounted in the car and each lead go directly
> to the terminals of its own battery. Does anyone think that this method
> will help keep my batteries at peak?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Phil Marino
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 10:18
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Pack Balance?- VRLA vs floodies
>
> Mike-
>
> The report that you provided a link for applies to sealed ( VRLA)
> batteries
> :
>
> "This paper
> reviews battery behavior and performance related to the equalization
> problem, in the context of vavle-regulated lead-acid batteries. "
>
>
> I think it is pretty well understood that sealed batteries cannot be
> effectively balanced by equalization. That is why many VRLA battery
> users use passive or active regulators.
>
> Rich is using flooded batteries. These will generally respond well to
> equalization - one of the advantages of using floodeds.
>
> Phil
>
>
> >From: Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Re: Pack Balance?
> >Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 06:57:00 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Hi Rich,
> >
> >Without regulation you cannot equalize a pack for very long by just
> >overcharging it.
> >
> >Here is a report on battery equalization that a university did.
> >
> >http://energy.ece.uiuc.edu/Balog/images/intelec02.pdf
> >
> >
> >
> >In general the NREL is a great source of real battery test data.
> >
> >http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/energystorage/publications.html
> >
> >
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
> >--- Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > My pack consists of 20 6v flooded lead acid batteries. When I do a
> > > check to see if the batteries are staying balanced I find that 19
> > > look real close like +/- .01v. But there is always this same stray
> > > which is around .05-.10v higher than the norm. I was expecting to
> > > see one or two lag behind and would charge them up but I didn't
> > > expect to see one higher than all the rest. Does this mean
> > > anything?
> > >
> > > I've tried taking a 6v VW headlight and bleeding off the excess but
> > > it still reads high the next cycle I test. Note: I usually test in
> > > the morning after they've charged up overnight.
> > >
> > > Rich
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by
> Experian.
> http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTE
> RAVERAGE
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul, In the 1970's I did a conversion with a home made contactor
controller as follows:
1. First step was a main contactor connecting two 60vdc parallel battery
banks through a power resistor to the motor. Note that these contactors
have blowouts and are rated for 120/144vdc and not cheap or easy to find.
Note also that each battery bank is individually fused.
2. Second step is shunting the start resistor. You can cheat a little on
the contactor voltage rating here. Shunt R was about 2 ohms/10kw. You can
have a fire here if not careful.
3. The third series/paralleling step is an interesting one, when you
analyze it. The battery packs are put in series by means of two power
diodes and a single pole contactor. This scheme has been used a lot and
substitutes diodes for more costly DC contactors. I would scan and post a
schematic on this website but I am not sure how to do it. I am a newby here.
4. Additionally, I used a 20kw/125vdc aircraft generator as a motor. This
had a separately excited field which I used for speed control and field
strengthing/weakening/and regen above motor base speed.
5. By retaining the 4 speed transmission in the Corvair, I had 12 possible
steps plus field control. The driveability of the car was good and it had a
range of 50 miles and a top speed of 50mph. The durability of the EV-106
batteries was poor. I used switch mode converters for accessory battery
charging and the field control, taking energy equally from all batteries in
the traction pack at all times.
If you email me directly, I will try to get you a schematic. These days, I
would use an IGBT controller with full boost mode regen, or an AC drive.
You still need at least one contactor (Main contactor) for safety in my
opinion.
On Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:04:22 -0600, Roland Wiench wrote
> > Paul childreypa wrote:
> > > You mentioned building a contactor controller. I have looked as hard as
> > > I can for information on building one. I found a little information,
but
> > > I really need a detailed schematic and walkthrough. A how to page would
> > > be perfect but all I can find are some bits and pieces on the theory.
> > > Everyone says they have built one or are going to, but I can't find
much
> > > good info. I would love some info on how you plan to build yours if
> > > that's possible.
>
> Hello Paul,
>
> To find out how to design, engineer, build a contact controllers and
> the related resistance and control switches, go to to the library
> and see if you can find a Standard Handbook for Electrical Engineers
> in the early editions. There is sections on designs of motors,
> batteries, electric vehicles, electric trains, electrical and
> electronic circuits, and the completed math to calculated what you want.
>
> These hand books are over 3000 pages long, so check it out first
> before you run to a book store to order one unless you are going for
> you EE.
>
> Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Kert
Thats real nice except for the exaust pipe and muffler hanging from
the bottom!!!
check the pictures
Tom
----------------------
I think most of you read ABG anyway but here goes:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/category/miles-automotive/
In short, Miles Automotive is promising to bring a $30K electric
sedan on
market in the 2008. Its a Chinese made Qingyuan Electric production,
converted from a Hafei Auto body ( if those names tell you anything
)
Lithium batts, shooting for a 150 mile range and 80mph top speed.
They are showing the prototype at AFVI Show, its unclear whether its
a working
electric version. Setting up dealership network and hoping to have
around
hundred dealers in 2008
what do you say ? vaporware or real thing ? mind you, i would believe
that
chinese can produce a lithium-powered car at this price point,
judging by how
cheap the masses of lithium-powered ebikes are there.
as to the the build quality...
-kert
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Joe;
IF I get my Jetta done in time I'll drag it down to Power of DC, but
don't hold yur breath! If I have Something Else ready. same thing.
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lado" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 12:31 PM
Subject: A Call for Vehicles for the Power of DC
> The members of EVA/DC always come out in force to the Power of DC and we
typically get a university to come and a high school as well to show up. I
would like to see more EVs comming to the event. If you live with in a half
days drive of Hagerstown, Maryland, please come bring your EV to the event.
If you know of a high school that has put together an EV, encourage them to
come to the event. If there is someone on the list that works for a
university that has a solar vehicle, even really old ones, push them to come
for the event. They don't have to drag race their vehicle or race it in the
EVautoX. Just by being there it will make the event more interesting for the
spectators. The event is for us EV people, but it is also a way to show the
general public EVs. The more EVs the public sees and the greater variety the
more they are going to want to join in by buying EVs themselves, supporting
EV race teams and events or getting involved with converting regular cars to
EVs. So,
> if you've got it, flaunt it.
>
> To register for the Power of DC follow the link below.
>
> http://www.powerofdc.com/lets_race.html
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.25/745 - Release Date: 4/3/07
12:48 PM
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like a Rudman Mark 1 Regulator...
They did the job.
Got hot.. melted stuff..
Added thermal cut off..Called it a
Mark 2 That's about 1999 or 2000
Added temp compm Low batt, and cheaper load resistor.. those TO-220 ceramic
30 watt power resistors are Spendy!!
Added a Com board for charger feed back Called it a Mk2B
Added a Low bat signal to control the charger when the battery is too low..
Now Called a Mk2C..
Funny how a simple Idea gets transformed over time to a complicated feature
rich product.
Rob.. You gotta get temperature limits figured out or you are building a
fire hazzard.
Simple snap disc temp switches might be the cheapest solution. Select for
about 190 to 240 Deg F. Yes a fan drive would be nice... you just can't blow
off much power without one.
The rails of My PiPrius Batter packs form a tray that will channle cooling
air across my reg strings...High speed charging requires high speed Battery
regulation.. That can be some pretty inpressive dissapation watts for a few
minutes of a charge cycle.
Rich Rudman
I have a few thousand Regs out there... that started as a simple "Clamper"
circuit....
----- Original Message -----
From: "robert mat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 7:58 AM
Subject: WILL HAVE BASIC CLAMPERS FOR SALE WAS Re: Anybody have schematic
for an $8 voltage clamper/limiter, said to work well?
> Thanks for all your replies. We've just built basic, non-digital,
screwdriver-adjustable basic battery voltage regulators. Works, but:
>
> - Parts cost came out to $100 for 6
>
> - A fan will be likely be needed, as the ceramic resistor, on these basic
clampers, with a 20W 5K certamic resistor load, the ceramic resistor gets to
over 195F on the surface, when 1A is going into the circuit. (The ceramic
resistor receives less than 8V.) We'll try it with a 12V 25W lightbulb next.
>
> - If anybody else needs them, I can have extra voltage regulators made
made up. Contact me off list. (I didn't hear back from Ed Ang on his VReg
devices, despite many attempts to email him, even through his customers, at
least one of which said they forwarded my email to Ang. I assume he's too
busy to build them.)
>
> - The ceramic resistor (load) will be standing on a heat sink, after
reading the caution on Ed Ang's installation PDF (on his VReg clampers) to
not push the resistors down. I'm also inclined to make the components "quake
proof" after reading about the problems with vibration on the E-Max's
controller and/or chargers.
>
> - IMHO, the Zivan battery charger doesn't detect battery State Of Charge
correctly, and was cooking one or more batteries in our gel/AGM battery
string even during the bulk charge phase.
>
> - We're putting in 2 clampers/limiters per battery. One 2A unit didn't
pull down the voltage to the limit during the Zivan NG3's bulk charge phase.
>
> Cheers,
> Rob Matthies
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> Bob
>
>
>
> Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Mine will do that. It's the
only one around called a clamper.
>
> When I left out the 1meg resistor it made the clamper blink faster the
> more it tried to regulate. That made it easier to see in a group of 50
> of them that I had mounted. Otherwise the led just stays on longer each
> time it blinks to do the regulating.
>
> This schematic and parts values were based on a single sided board with
> surface mount parts.
>
> http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/Clamper.pdf
>
> Mike
>
> --- robert mat wrote:
>
> > Anybody have schematic for an $8 voltage clamper/limiter, said to
> > work well?
> >
> > Someone said that they built a voltage regulator that handled 5A or
> > more, for only $8 in parts, can be built from a proto board. Does
> > anybody have the plans for this?
> >
> > The only caveat was that a heat sink would have to put on top of one
> > of the parts, I'm informed.
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Be a PS3 game guru.
> > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo!
> > Games.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> The island-country of Kiribati will be sunk in 15 years
> by climate change. This may be one solution.
>
> Newspapers and TV news coverage of
> our 'no cost' battery for electric vehicles:
> http://tv-news-revived-batteries.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get your own web address.
> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Excellent! I'm glad someone is making an effort to make them!
I also ran between .5 and 2.5 amps on each regulator. In contrast to
that a friend of mine has an AC Propulsion Saturn that was built with
regulators only pulling .4 amps. It ran for about 10+ years this way.
Then when he purchased the car, he had them install and new YellowTop
pack. At that time they changed the draw to only .3 amps.
That system has worked great on these 42ah YT's while only drawing .3
amps. I helped him install a new YT to replace a failed one. That
battery stood out with higher capacity as it was brand new and the
rest of the pack had something like 4k miles on it. But to the
management systems credit it kept that new YT equalized in sync with
the lesser capacity, older YT's using only .3 amps of regulation.
Since this ACP system has an LED based monitoring system, to this day
it's easy to see that it keeps the whole pack equalized.
This Saturn's YT pack is at about 10k miles right now.
This whole experience makes me wonder why it would be neccessary to go
with more than say .5 amps of regulation. It would certainly make the
high power parts cheaper and smaller on a given regulator design.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for all your replies. We've just built basic, non-digital,
screwdriver-adjustable basic battery voltage regulators. Works, but:
>
> - Parts cost came out to $100 for 6
>
> - A fan will be likely be needed, as the ceramic resistor, on these
basic clampers, with a 20W 5K certamic resistor load, the ceramic
resistor gets to over 195F on the surface, when 1A is going into the
circuit. (The ceramic resistor receives less than 8V.) We'll try it
with a 12V 25W lightbulb next.
>
> - If anybody else needs them, I can have extra voltage regulators
made made up. Contact me off list. (I didn't hear back from Ed Ang on
his VReg devices, despite many attempts to email him, even through his
customers, at least one of which said they forwarded my email to Ang.
I assume he's too busy to build them.)
>
> - The ceramic resistor (load) will be standing on a heat sink, after
reading the caution on Ed Ang's installation PDF (on his VReg
clampers) to not push the resistors down. I'm also inclined to make
the components "quake proof" after reading about the problems with
vibration on the E-Max's controller and/or chargers.
>
> - IMHO, the Zivan battery charger doesn't detect battery State Of
Charge correctly, and was cooking one or more batteries in our gel/AGM
battery string even during the bulk charge phase.
>
> - We're putting in 2 clampers/limiters per battery. One 2A unit
didn't pull down the voltage to the limit during the Zivan NG3's bulk
charge phase.
>
> Cheers,
> Rob Matthies
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> Bob
>
>
>
> Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Mine will do that. It's the
only one around called a clamper.
>
> When I left out the 1meg resistor it made the clamper blink faster the
> more it tried to regulate. That made it easier to see in a group of 50
> of them that I had mounted. Otherwise the led just stays on longer each
> time it blinks to do the regulating.
>
> This schematic and parts values were based on a single sided board with
> surface mount parts.
>
> http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/Clamper.pdf
>
> Mike
>
> --- robert mat wrote:
>
> > Anybody have schematic for an $8 voltage clamper/limiter, said to
> > work well?
> >
> > Someone said that they built a voltage regulator that handled 5A or
> > more, for only $8 in parts, can be built from a proto board. Does
> > anybody have the plans for this?
> >
> > The only caveat was that a heat sink would have to put on top of one
> > of the parts, I'm informed.
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Be a PS3 game guru.
> > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo!
> > Games.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> The island-country of Kiribati will be sunk in 15 years
> by climate change. This may be one solution.
>
> Newspapers and TV news coverage of
> our 'no cost' battery for electric vehicles:
> http://tv-news-revived-batteries.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get your own web address.
> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I always question where the "understanding" came from in the EV world.
No a lot of test data. Flooded batteries can equalize some due to
burning off water from the cells that are already fully charged while
the lesser charged one catch up. But I don't think there is any test
data showing that equalization works in floodies.
I've experienced imbalance in a big way in my flooded pack. I was sure
that I was slightly over charging enough to ensure equalization. I was
wrong. A load test of various groups of 10 cells in the pack showed me
that my pack was imbalanced. So I have personal data that shows it
still is not a good assumption that passive equalization from just
basic overcharging does work.
Mike
> I think it is pretty well understood that sealed batteries cannot be
> effectively balanced by equalization. That is why many VRLA battery
users
> use passive or active regulators.
>
> Rich is using flooded batteries. These will generally respond well to
> equalization - one of the advantages of using floodeds.
>
> Phil
>
>
> >From: Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Re: Pack Balance?
> >Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 06:57:00 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Hi Rich,
> >
> >Without regulation you cannot equalize a pack for very long by just
> >overcharging it.
> >
> >Here is a report on battery equalization that a university did.
> >
> >http://energy.ece.uiuc.edu/Balog/images/intelec02.pdf
> >
> >
> >
> >In general the NREL is a great source of real battery test data.
> >
> >http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/energystorage/publications.html
> >
> >
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
> >--- Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > My pack consists of 20 6v flooded lead acid batteries. When I do a
> > > check to see if the batteries are staying balanced I find that 19
> > > look
> > > real close like +/- .01v. But there is always this same stray which
> > > is
> > > around .05-.10v higher than the norm. I was expecting to see one or
> > > two
> > > lag behind and would charge them up but I didn't expect to see one
> > > higher than all the rest. Does this mean anything?
> > >
> > > I've tried taking a 6v VW headlight and bleeding off the excess but
> > > it
> > > still reads high the next cycle I test. Note: I usually test in the
> > > morning after they've charged up overnight.
> > >
> > > Rich
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by
Experian.
>
http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why so many amps of bypass Rich?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Sounds like a Rudman Mark 1 Regulator...
>
> They did the job.
> Got hot.. melted stuff..
>
> Added thermal cut off..Called it a
> Mark 2 That's about 1999 or 2000
>
> Added temp compm Low batt, and cheaper load resistor.. those TO-220
ceramic
> 30 watt power resistors are Spendy!!
>
> Added a Com board for charger feed back Called it a Mk2B
>
> Added a Low bat signal to control the charger when the battery is
too low..
>
> Now Called a Mk2C..
>
> Funny how a simple Idea gets transformed over time to a complicated
feature
> rich product.
>
> Rob.. You gotta get temperature limits figured out or you are building a
> fire hazzard.
> Simple snap disc temp switches might be the cheapest solution.
Select for
> about 190 to 240 Deg F. Yes a fan drive would be nice... you just
can't blow
> off much power without one.
> The rails of My PiPrius Batter packs form a tray that will channle
cooling
> air across my reg strings...High speed charging requires high speed
Battery
> regulation.. That can be some pretty inpressive dissapation watts
for a few
> minutes of a charge cycle.
>
>
> Rich Rudman
> I have a few thousand Regs out there... that started as a simple
"Clamper"
> circuit....
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "robert mat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 7:58 AM
> Subject: WILL HAVE BASIC CLAMPERS FOR SALE WAS Re: Anybody have
schematic
> for an $8 voltage clamper/limiter, said to work well?
>
>
> > Thanks for all your replies. We've just built basic, non-digital,
> screwdriver-adjustable basic battery voltage regulators. Works, but:
> >
> > - Parts cost came out to $100 for 6
> >
> > - A fan will be likely be needed, as the ceramic resistor, on
these basic
> clampers, with a 20W 5K certamic resistor load, the ceramic resistor
gets to
> over 195F on the surface, when 1A is going into the circuit. (The
ceramic
> resistor receives less than 8V.) We'll try it with a 12V 25W
lightbulb next.
> >
> > - If anybody else needs them, I can have extra voltage regulators made
> made up. Contact me off list. (I didn't hear back from Ed Ang on his
VReg
> devices, despite many attempts to email him, even through his
customers, at
> least one of which said they forwarded my email to Ang. I assume
he's too
> busy to build them.)
> >
> > - The ceramic resistor (load) will be standing on a heat sink, after
> reading the caution on Ed Ang's installation PDF (on his VReg
clampers) to
> not push the resistors down. I'm also inclined to make the
components "quake
> proof" after reading about the problems with vibration on the E-Max's
> controller and/or chargers.
> >
> > - IMHO, the Zivan battery charger doesn't detect battery State Of
Charge
> correctly, and was cooking one or more batteries in our gel/AGM battery
> string even during the bulk charge phase.
> >
> > - We're putting in 2 clampers/limiters per battery. One 2A unit didn't
> pull down the voltage to the limit during the Zivan NG3's bulk
charge phase.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Rob Matthies
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Mine will do that. It's the
> only one around called a clamper.
> >
> > When I left out the 1meg resistor it made the clamper blink faster the
> > more it tried to regulate. That made it easier to see in a group of 50
> > of them that I had mounted. Otherwise the led just stays on longer
each
> > time it blinks to do the regulating.
> >
> > This schematic and parts values were based on a single sided board
with
> > surface mount parts.
> >
> > http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/Clamper.pdf
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > --- robert mat wrote:
> >
> > > Anybody have schematic for an $8 voltage clamper/limiter, said to
> > > work well?
> > >
> > > Someone said that they built a voltage regulator that handled 5A or
> > > more, for only $8 in parts, can be built from a proto board. Does
> > > anybody have the plans for this?
> > >
> > > The only caveat was that a heat sink would have to put on top of one
> > > of the parts, I'm informed.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Be a PS3 game guru.
> > > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at
Yahoo!
> > > Games.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The island-country of Kiribati will be sunk in 15 years
> > by climate change. This may be one solution.
> >
> > Newspapers and TV news coverage of
> > our 'no cost' battery for electric vehicles:
> > http://tv-news-revived-batteries.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Get your own web address.
> > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
> >
>
--- End Message ---
