EV Digest 6635
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Pack Balance?- VRLA vs floodies
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Reprogramming a Zivan Charger
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Nawaz Qureshi question has the US125 gotten any better overy the last few
years ?
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: transmission in S10
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: Miles Automotive $30 000 sedan
by "Chris Benson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Pack Balance?- VRLA vs floodies
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Miles Automotive $30 000 sedan
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Pack Balance?- VRLA vs floodies
by "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) C,mm,n (common) open source car project by Dutch universities
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: [EV] 357 MPH!!!!!!!!! an' Stuff
by "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Pack Balance?- VRLA vs floodies
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: " Spam arrest " ! is it a genuine response to an email I sent to
evlist ?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: FW: The Force isn't with me
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re:Basic Clamper Math
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: transmission in S10
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) test
by Jeff Mccabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: The Force isn't with me
by "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) KillaCycle; Word is getting out
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Motor recommendations
by "childreypa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: test
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re:Basic Clamper Math
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: test
by Jeff Mccabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Basic Clamper Math
by "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) EV - radio interview - podcast available
by Juergen Weichert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: History Lesson?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Basic Clamper Math
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
robert mat wrote:
Just my two cents: Equalization shortens battery life. I don't do it
on my EV's.
*Some* equalization is required whenever you have more than one cell in
a box (i.e. a "battery") and can't get at the connections between cells.
The cells will reach "full charge" at different times. You have no
choice but to overcharge the pack as a whole to bring the lower cells up
to "full". This inevitably overcharges the best cells; but that's life!
The challenge is to equalize just enough to bring the weak ones up
without beating the best ones to death.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
Has any looked into what would be required to reprogram a Zivan
charger yourself? I would really like a bit more control of what
mine is doing.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nawaz,
Regarding high current demands of an EV accelerating has the US125 gotten any
better in say the last 3 years or more robust in dealing with sustained high
currents draws of say 300 amps over 30 seconds.
Is this asking to much from a US125 and one would significantly diminish its
battery life with that type of EV driving ?
The USbattery quality link belows shows many interesting facts is their
anything else you would add ?
http://www.usbattery.com/pages/usbquality.htm
When were these enhancements added or over what period of time.
Have you noticed less product defects more uniform batches.
Thanks,
Danny
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
pack voltage 156
I can't answer my gear ratio. Even my mechanic's resources couldn't get me
that info. I actually think (according to Bob Rice's info about my truck),
that my transmission is not original, but was moved from the 86 S10 that
Brian Matthney had.
So, when I am 2nd gear at 25 mph, I can only pull 125 Amps (on flat) but
when I shift to 3rd, I can again pull many more amps (200 till I get to
about 45 mph , then shift to 4th gear.
I typically drive conservative (realizing the traffic lights don't care how
fast I drive; They're red whether I drive 40,50 or 60 mph. so I take it
easy and enjoy my commute)
After I remake the power cables, I'll maybe have money for a tachometer.
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From what I gathered the car shown is simply there as an example to show
potential dealers what the actual base car that will be used looks like, it
is not operational, and has not been setup as electric.
As per autobloggreen reader comments, their plan appears to be to take an
existing Chinese car (Hafei Auto), and work with another supplier in China
(Qingyuan Electric) on the electric drive. They plan to get it checked for
safety regs in the states this fall, then adjust the build to meet
regulations, and finally get it certified and for sale to dealers. --
certainly, lots of things to be worked out before they have a vehicle for
sale, especially with the spec's they claim to get from their test units
(80+MPH, 150mile range, 6 hr charge).
I don't know much about electric vehicles other than my lurking on this list
and various websites, but even I am highly skeptical. Not that I wouldn't
love to see them meet their goals. Especially, their late 08 release and
$29k price.
-Chris
On 4/5/07, Tom Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Kert
Thats real nice except for the exaust pipe and muffler hanging from
the bottom!!!
check the pictures
Tom
----------------------
I think most of you read ABG anyway but here goes:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/category/miles-automotive/
In short, Miles Automotive is promising to bring a $30K electric
sedan on
market in the 2008. Its a Chinese made Qingyuan Electric production,
converted from a Hafei Auto body ( if those names tell you anything
)
Lithium batts, shooting for a 150 mile range and 80mph top speed.
They are showing the prototype at AFVI Show, its unclear whether its
a working
electric version. Setting up dealership network and hoping to have
around
hundred dealers in 2008
what do you say ? vaporware or real thing ? mind you, i would believe
that
chinese can produce a lithium-powered car at this price point,
judging by how
cheap the masses of lithium-powered ebikes are there.
as to the the build quality...
-kert
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am thinking this would be a solution for my project too, as a quick&dirty BMS. I may only have 6-10 batteries so its
economical too.
Anybody have a critique of the idea? Lots of talk in the archives already?
Mike Phillips wrote:
At least one EV owner here already does that. Maybe they will chime
in. I think it's a great idea.
Mike
-- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dewey, Jody R ATC
COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On my 10 battery 120V pack of Hawker Genesis 26AH batteries I was
planning on using a battery tender 10 bank charger to equalize my pack
daily. The tender would be mounted in the car and each lead go directly
to the terminals of its own battery. Does anyone think that this method
will help keep my batteries at peak?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5 Apr 2007 at 12:54, Kaido Kert wrote:
> what do you say ? vaporware or real thing ?
As with all such efforts, I say : I'll believe it when I can drive it. I've
read similar promises more times than I can count.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
I am planning separate chargers for each of the 6 batteries for my
motorcycle. I'm using the charger recommended for the sealed batteries
I am using. I'm hoping that this will eliminate the concerns mentioned
below. For this number of batteries the cost looks to be the same or
less than a 72 V 25A charger and individual regulators or equalizers.
me
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of john fisher
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 11:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Pack Balance?- VRLA vs floodies
I am thinking this would be a solution for my project too, as a
quick&dirty BMS. I may only have 6-10 batteries so its economical too.
Anybody have a critique of the idea? Lots of talk in the archives
already?
Mike Phillips wrote:
> At least one EV owner here already does that. Maybe they will chime
> in. I think it's a great idea.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> -- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dewey, Jody R ATC
> COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On my 10 battery 120V pack of Hawker Genesis 26AH batteries I was
>> planning on using a battery tender 10 bank charger to equalize my
>> pack daily. The tender would be mounted in the car and each lead go
>> directly to the terminals of its own battery. Does anyone think that
>> this method will help keep my batteries at peak?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My home country has some interesting development going,
unfortunately they selected the wrong fuel, but besides
that it should be an interesting EV with attention for the
environment and - most important - open for the entire
community to modify/contribute/comment.
The main website is in Dutch, unfortunately, I hope that
they will use English for the open source part.
I'll let you know when I have dug a little deeper into this.
http://www.core77.com/blog/object_culture/cmmn_the_worlds_first_opensource_c
ar__5847.asp
http://www.autoindetoekomst.nl/
(It appears that the English Pages are still in development
as can be seen on the Get Involved page.)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Agreed. I just rode one yesterday and I was amazed! Extremely smooth
and quiet. Makes a plane seem old and obsolete. The train I was on got up
to about 125mph as far as I noticed. I'm curious as to how much electricity
these amazing machines consume and if they use regenerative breaking (a lot
of potential there). Electric rail has a lot of potential for clean and
fast mass transportation. I hope to see these trains competing with air
transportation within the next few years. It's a shame there isn't more
(fast) rail transportation used in the US.
Brandon Kruger
On 4/4/07, Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 02:26:35PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi EVerybody;
>
> Didya catch on the snewNews Media last night the record setting TGV
(Train Grande Vitasse)or FAST train, in France. They pushed the steel wheel
on rail record from 312 to 357MPH, this is REAL MPH not wimpy KPH's! The TV
Clips of it going under an underpass with fans watching was like watching
Zombie launch, I mean Thrill Factor! Giving new meaning to " If Ya blink,
ya MISSED it!" No joke! Other heartstopping and warming shots were from the
Head End, where the engineer sits, cat. poles FLYING toward you, outdriving
your visibility in DAYLIGHT. I.E. IF there was anybody just walking on the
track, you wouldn't have TIME to reach for the horn, or swerve<g>! He would
be track pizza so quick!.Good thing they don't have grade crossings,
there!!!! Good windshield wipers would be a nessecity! A shot of the drive
wheels just SINGING along, tracking Perfectly on a Perfect track.Oh so
BEAUTIFUL! The way God intended railways to work! Yeah, old steamers and
woody coaches are quai!
nt!
I rode in a ICE (Inter City Express) train in Germany last year. They
do very good energy management with speed and inertia. They go up
to 250kph and then almost all sound stops. Just wind and tracks.
It slowly looses speed until reaches 150kph where they brake
to 100 if they have to pass thru a station they are not stopping or
just brake to a stop if they will.
It was very well timed. They almost never had to re-apply power...
--
Eduardo K. | Some say it's forgive and forget.
http://www.carfun.cl | I say forget about forgiving just accept.
http://ev.nn.cl | And get the hell out of town.
| Minnie Driver, Grosse Point
Blank
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5 Apr 2007 at 8:14, robert mat wrote:
> Equalization shortens battery life.
I don't think this is the case when equalization is properly performed.
If the cells are never equalized, some will become chronically undercharged.
Gradually they will coast downward and eventually will be reversed under a
deep discharge. Then they will become the failure point. They may also
begin to suffer from sulfation.
Unless you can charge each >cell< individually, equalization is essential
for any battery.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5 Apr 2007 at 15:42, jeanedd wrote:
> " Spam arrest " ! is it a genuine response to an email I sent to evlist ?
It may be that Mark Dutko is using a spam filtering service. As a result,
each new person who sends a message to the EVDL receives this filtering
message.
I ask list members not to use these spam filtering services because it is
inconvenient for other members. Regrettably, a few people do not comply
with this request.
Most of us do not respond to these messages. I suggest that you delete it.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5 Apr 2007 at 9:42, Mike Wyman wrote:
> it's been crashing on me at 15Ah into its 50Ah cycle.
I assume you mean the battery goes flat. A daily car crash would not be
good.
My guess is that you have one or more bad batteries that you didn't find.
Load the pack with a dummy load and discharge until the voltage falls
markedly. Measure each battery's voltage with the load applied. You'll
probably find one or more that measure about 10 volts or less. Those are
the stinkers.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 10:27 AM
Subject: WILL HAVE BASIC CLAMPERS FOR SALE WAS Re: Anybody have schematic
for an $8
> Why so many amps of bypass Rich?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
Because that's what it takes to get a string of Yellow tops equalized in ten
minutes for racing.
The original Rudman Reg idea was for charging Electric Hydro planes in a
hurry. I just could not keep the batteries Even close to the 14.8 volts that
I needed.
One would shoot to 16 to 17 volts.. while some were down in the 13s still.
So I had Joe scratch me out a circuit to solve that problem.
At first they worked well, But one or two would get so hot it would char the
PCB. Then I went to the Caddock 30 watter on a Wakefield heatsink. That
worked better
Then We went to a current controlled FET.. I had access to 1000s of cheap
fets, So we used the Fet as the load and the switch.. Cute .. cut about 2
bucks off the $20 BOM.
The amount of dissipation or Equalization that any pack smoother,
equalizers, BMS.. What ever you call it, depends on the size of the
Cell/module in amphours and the time you have to transfer or dissipate the
"Unequalization" energy in watts. Times the number of batteries.. that are
out of line.
Simple idea.. knock down the full ones fill up the not full ones.
What forces the battery string under question to not be in equalization are
a large number of things... But some packs drift a LOT like old Floodies..
and some don't drift much at all, But have parasitic loads attached to
individual batteries. What a BMS has to do is to iron out the differences
to keep the entire capacity of the pack available for Fast charging and hard
long discharge cycles.
When you have only one method of moving watts.. dissipation.. from those
that are at or above your set voltage point... and only while charging or
Big Regen events.. you don't have the time for low dissipation power.
So..Even blowing off a amphour of power on every battery but the last to
fill up.. is a quite a bit of watts for the rest of the pack.
The math goes something like this..
1 amp hour at 15 volts is 15 watt hours. 15 watts for a hour.. or times 6
for 10 minutes or regulation.. That's now 90 watts of dissipation for each
reg. Now you have 15 other batteries that may or may not be doing the same
thing. So you can have 1350 watts of Regs blasting away. This makes for
some embarrassing levels of heat....
Building regs that can blast off 90 watts continuously is out of the
question, They would need to be fan cooled or attached to a larger heatsink.
Or a 1/4 square foot of convection heatsink.
So.. you have to either wait for ever at 1 amp.. heat the snot out of a
smaller heatsink and then regulate the system to not melt it.. or.. go fan
cooled. The more time you have to do the chore the less heatsink you need.
The lower temperatures you can use....
Of course having the pack dialed in, and letting the regs do their thing
every day.. keep you from having to spend a afternoon with the compressed
air gun...dialing in a pack that is quite a ways out.
The wattage that the Regs dissipate becomes a matter of how fast to do you
want to go?? and how fast can you cool them.
In practice.. with a healthy pack.. the complete "Equalization" phase which
many now as the absorption phase... can be about 10 to 20 minutes if you run
the pack down to less than a SOC of %50.
I have had this phase done in about 45 seconds... with a hard fast charge..
and darn good AGMs. The hottest Reg was about 100 F.. and the charger timed
out in 15 minutes with less than 1 amp showing.
It's the bad packs and the new ones that are just being dialed in that take
the really long hot equalization sessions.
So.. Your clampers.... 1 amp is going to take a hour of high voltage hold
time to move 1 amp hour, That's 15 watts for a hour on each 12 volt battery.
Time your pack length....
10 12 volters for 120 volts.. that's 150 watts of waste heat for a hour.
That's going to warm some stuff up. Now do that all in 10 minutes...And you
start to see the problem.
More is better
More is faster...
More gets you back to the EV grin faster.
Rich Rudman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manzanita Micro
360-297-7383,
Cell 360-620-6266
Production shop 360-297-1660
FAX at Metal shop 1-360-297-3311
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ben,
Love your quote on the lights. So true.
For some reason not too many drivers seem to get it.
Anyway, I have a 1994 S10, regular cab longbed
with AC drive and a manual transmission locked in 2nd gear.
Redline of the motor is 9,000 RPM and the truck drives 72 MPH
at that time, so I always figure 8 MPH per 1000 RPM or each
MPH equals 125 RPM in 2nd.
I am not sure that I have an original 1994 S10 transmission and
diff, only the original converter (US Electricar) can answer
that, but I'd hope they specified to GM how they wanted their
gliders to be. I can check the label in the glovebox to tell
you which option codes are indicated, but I am not near the
car now.
This should give you one more data point - apparently you
reach the 4500 (?) RPM redline of a DC motor at 36 MPH in 2nd.
As you indicated, the torque (current) drop off at higher RPMs
due to back-EMF production by the motor can be a reason to
shift up at a lower speed to regain acceleration.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 11:11 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: transmission in S10
pack voltage 156
I can't answer my gear ratio. Even my mechanic's resources couldn't get me
that info. I actually think (according to Bob Rice's info about my truck),
that my transmission is not original, but was moved from the 86 S10 that
Brian Matthney had.
So, when I am 2nd gear at 25 mph, I can only pull 125 Amps (on flat) but
when I shift to 3rd, I can again pull many more amps (200 till I get to
about 45 mph , then shift to 4th gear.
I typically drive conservative (realizing the traffic lights don't care how
fast I drive; They're red whether I drive 40,50 or 60 mph. so I take it easy
and enjoy my commute)
After I remake the power cables, I'll maybe have money for a tachometer.
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is their any reason one would not respond to this email due to attachments or
spam ?
thanks, Jeff
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
yes i had one bad battery and the fully charged pack left me stranded just a
few miles out. find the bad batteries and replacwe if you find them. or the
whole pack Mike y
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Wyman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 12:42 PM
Subject: FW: The Force isn't with me
_____
From: Mike Wyman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:03 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: The Force isn't with me
All,
Feedback time.
I have been driving a Solectia Force for eight years with little or no
problem.
Lately, tho, it's been crashing on me at 15Ah into its 50Ah cycle. I
replaced the old Solectria Charger with a New Zivan charger, and replaced
four of the batteries in the battery pack that seemed to be taking less
charge than they should.
Result: nada. The problem persists and I'm wondering if it could be a
controller problem, or maybe I need to replace all the batteries. The
problem has me and my Force mechanic stumped, as we've done the
diagnostics
on the batteries and the charger and as far as we can tell, it should be
running fine.
Any Force folks out there have a problem like this? What would you
recommend
to diagnose and fix it? Any other cause for such an early discharge you
can
think of?
-Mike.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/04/electric_motorc.html#more
Word is getting out about our new record.
Bill D.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ive been doing a ton of reading. Checked out some books on motor
control, and the Build you own EV book (Brant). Brant gives some pretty
good decription of building a controller using a LM3524 IC. Also one
using an MC33033. I don't know if these IC's are even available. The
circuit looks very simple and it says it can handle about 200 amps. Also
that you could run multiple ones in parallel. The diagram is good with
layouts and all but no values for resistors and capacitors and things.
Any ideas here. Also in the DC motor book there are lots of simple
contacor circuts for big motors. One is a "four stage reduced voltage
sarting circuit" It is setup for a shunt motor. Uses 4 timed contactors
to bypass resistors. And a rheostat to vary field current for speed
control. Ill try to schetch it but its gonna be bad. Anyway, I was
thinking about having like a shifter or selector in the car where I
could vary the voltage in like 4 or 5 steps, and control speed with a
big pot., That way I could limit the inefficiency of the pot by lowering
the input voltage. Kinda like shifting gears but shifting voltage.
|---(Rheostat)----|-----oooo(shunt field)-----|
|-----||----------| |
| |
(+)--|--|M|---|M|---|--/\/\/\-|--/\/\/\/|---/\/\/\-|--(armature)--|-|M|-
|(-)
| | | | |
|
| |---|R1|--|--|R2|---|---|R3|---|
|
|
|
(Stop cont.)--|--(Start
Cont.)--|--------------------O(M)-----------|
| |
|
| |
|
|-----|M|---------|--------------------O(TR)----------|
|
|
|-----------(1st
Sw)-O(R1)----------|
|
|
|-----------(2md
SW)-O(R2)----------|
""
""
How would I wire this for a series motor, and is it even what I want? I
would appreciate some hard facts. I can't believe that no one on the
whole web has ever built one and documented it. Thanks.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 11:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Motor recommendations
Paul childreypa wrote:
> You mentioned building a contactor controller. I have looked as hard
as
> I can for information on building one. I found a little information,
but
> I really need a detailed schematic and walkthrough. A how to page
would
> be perfect but all I can find are some bits and pieces on the theory.
> Everyone says they have built one or are going to, but I can't find
much
> good info. I would love some info on how you plan to build yours if
> that's possible.
A contactor controller is just electrical wiring; not electronics. You
generally don't find detailed schematics, any more than you will find a
detailed schematic for your house wiring.
It's more likely that you will find wiring diagrams, which concentrate
on the physical location of parts and their terminals, wire colors,
sizes, etc. But since they are specific to one particular vehicle, they
may not help you understand how it works or to build one unless you use
the very same contactors, terminal blocks, motors, batteries, etc.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5 Apr 2007 at 12:42, Jeff Mccabe wrote:
> Is their any reason one would not respond to this email due to attachments or
> spam ?
There are a couple.
One reason is that a few of these intercept spam filtering services are
actually engaging in address harvesting, and have been known to spam
themselves! It's not extremely likely, but some who've replied to one of
these verification demands have gotten spam from the filtering service
asking them to sign up. Nice, huh?
The other reason is that it's rewarding the user for being inconsiderate to
other EVDL members, and I don't think we should do that.
Sorry to be so blunt, but quite a few EVDL members have told me they think
that it >is< inconsiderate. That's one reason that I ask all EVDL members
NOT to use intercept type spam filtering services. There are other ways to
use the EVDL without antispam filtering and without inconveniencing the
other EVDL members.
The other reason I ask them not to use intercept filtering is that it causes
threads like this one - the list takes time and bandwidth from discussion of
EVs to talk about the filtering.
Most EVDLers cooperate with this request not to use this filtering.
However, a very few insist on using it. They assert that because they (try
to) add EVDL members to the whitelist manually as they hit the filter, the
newbies will only get one (or a few) intercept notices. Apparently they
think that's OK. It happens that many people here don't agree.
At any rate, I recommend that when you receive these notices, you just
delete them. DO NOT RESPOND. Do this as a spam-protective measure for
yourself. Also, let the person using the filter add you to his whitelist
manually. I don't think you should do the work for him.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for taking the time to educate us on your process of regulator
development Rich.
So now we can choose how much current our clampers bypass based on our
intended use.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 10:27 AM
> Subject: WILL HAVE BASIC CLAMPERS FOR SALE WAS Re: Anybody have
schematic
> for an $8
>
>
> > Why so many amps of bypass Rich?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Because that's what it takes to get a string of Yellow tops
equalized in ten
> minutes for racing.
> The original Rudman Reg idea was for charging Electric Hydro planes in a
> hurry. I just could not keep the batteries Even close to the 14.8
volts that
> I needed.
> One would shoot to 16 to 17 volts.. while some were down in the 13s
still.
> So I had Joe scratch me out a circuit to solve that problem.
>
> At first they worked well, But one or two would get so hot it would
char the
> PCB. Then I went to the Caddock 30 watter on a Wakefield heatsink. That
> worked better
> Then We went to a current controlled FET.. I had access to 1000s of
cheap
> fets, So we used the Fet as the load and the switch.. Cute .. cut
about 2
> bucks off the $20 BOM.
>
> The amount of dissipation or Equalization that any pack smoother,
> equalizers, BMS.. What ever you call it, depends on the size of the
> Cell/module in amphours and the time you have to transfer or
dissipate the
> "Unequalization" energy in watts. Times the number of batteries..
that are
> out of line.
> Simple idea.. knock down the full ones fill up the not full ones.
>
> What forces the battery string under question to not be in
equalization are
> a large number of things... But some packs drift a LOT like old
Floodies..
> and some don't drift much at all, But have parasitic loads attached to
> individual batteries. What a BMS has to do is to iron out the
differences
> to keep the entire capacity of the pack available for Fast charging
and hard
> long discharge cycles.
>
> When you have only one method of moving watts.. dissipation.. from those
> that are at or above your set voltage point... and only while
charging or
> Big Regen events.. you don't have the time for low dissipation power.
> So..Even blowing off a amphour of power on every battery but the last to
> fill up.. is a quite a bit of watts for the rest of the pack.
>
> The math goes something like this..
> 1 amp hour at 15 volts is 15 watt hours. 15 watts for a hour.. or
times 6
> for 10 minutes or regulation.. That's now 90 watts of dissipation
for each
> reg. Now you have 15 other batteries that may or may not be doing
the same
> thing. So you can have 1350 watts of Regs blasting away. This makes for
> some embarrassing levels of heat....
>
> Building regs that can blast off 90 watts continuously is out of the
> question, They would need to be fan cooled or attached to a larger
heatsink.
> Or a 1/4 square foot of convection heatsink.
>
> So.. you have to either wait for ever at 1 amp.. heat the snot out of a
> smaller heatsink and then regulate the system to not melt it.. or..
go fan
> cooled. The more time you have to do the chore the less heatsink
you need.
> The lower temperatures you can use....
>
> Of course having the pack dialed in, and letting the regs do their thing
> every day.. keep you from having to spend a afternoon with the
compressed
> air gun...dialing in a pack that is quite a ways out.
> The wattage that the Regs dissipate becomes a matter of how fast to
do you
> want to go?? and how fast can you cool them.
>
> In practice.. with a healthy pack.. the complete "Equalization"
phase which
> many now as the absorption phase... can be about 10 to 20 minutes if
you run
> the pack down to less than a SOC of %50.
> I have had this phase done in about 45 seconds... with a hard fast
charge..
> and darn good AGMs. The hottest Reg was about 100 F.. and the
charger timed
> out in 15 minutes with less than 1 amp showing.
>
> It's the bad packs and the new ones that are just being dialed in
that take
> the really long hot equalization sessions.
>
> So.. Your clampers.... 1 amp is going to take a hour of high voltage
hold
> time to move 1 amp hour, That's 15 watts for a hour on each 12 volt
battery.
> Time your pack length....
> 10 12 volters for 120 volts.. that's 150 watts of waste heat for a hour.
> That's going to warm some stuff up. Now do that all in 10
minutes...And you
> start to see the problem.
>
> More is better
> More is faster...
>
> More gets you back to the EV grin faster.
>
> Rich Rudman
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Manzanita Micro
> 360-297-7383,
> Cell 360-620-6266
> Production shop 360-297-1660
> FAX at Metal shop 1-360-297-3311
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
thank you for your reply. The reason I sent this link to begin with is I have
posted two messages in the last week and not received a single reply? I have
now turned off my spam guard for incoming and out going emails. Now I hope
someone will talk to me ! because you know.... I'm a really nice guy! 8 )
David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 5 Apr 2007 at 12:42, Jeff Mccabe wrote:
> Is their any reason one would not respond to this email due to attachments or
> spam ?
There are a couple.
One reason is that a few of these intercept spam filtering services are
actually engaging in address harvesting, and have been known to spam
themselves! It's not extremely likely, but some who've replied to one of
these verification demands have gotten spam from the filtering service
asking them to sign up. Nice, huh?
The other reason is that it's rewarding the user for being inconsiderate to
other EVDL members, and I don't think we should do that.
Sorry to be so blunt, but quite a few EVDL members have told me they think
that it >is< inconsiderate. That's one reason that I ask all EVDL members
NOT to use intercept type spam filtering services. There are other ways to
use the EVDL without antispam filtering and without inconveniencing the
other EVDL members.
The other reason I ask them not to use intercept filtering is that it causes
threads like this one - the list takes time and bandwidth from discussion of
EVs to talk about the filtering.
Most EVDLers cooperate with this request not to use this filtering.
However, a very few insist on using it. They assert that because they (try
to) add EVDL members to the whitelist manually as they hit the filter, the
newbies will only get one (or a few) intercept notices. Apparently they
think that's OK. It happens that many people here don't agree.
At any rate, I recommend that when you receive these notices, you just
delete them. DO NOT RESPOND. Do this as a spam-protective measure for
yourself. Also, let the person using the filter add you to his whitelist
manually. I don't think you should do the work for him.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone ever made a balancing circuit that charges the low voltage
batteries with additional current rather than bleeding off excess
current on the high voltage batteries. An off line switcher IC used for
power bricks would make a fairly simple 2A 12V charger that would run
off the pack voltage. me
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was recently interviewed by a local radio reporter about electric
bikes. We rode around and he had a chance to sample several systems that
I have here. The interview followed the test rides and after we went for
a photo shoot.
The interview is now available on the reporters web site here:
http://web.mac.com/giacomo.panico/iWeb/Site/Home/Home.html
You can go straight to the podcast here:
http://web.mac.com/giacomo.panico/iWeb/Site/Podcast/609C9B25-9B66-4B64-A633-E44254B9C273.html
or download the mp3 version here:
http://web.mac.com/giacomo.panico/iWeb/Site/Podcast/609C9B25-9B66-4B64-A633-E44254B9C273_files/Power%20Assist%20Bike.mp3
It was all a lot of fun - really neat to see his reaction to riding
electric and his subsequent enthusiasm for all electric vehicles! :-)
Juergen
Juergen Weichert
613-746-7685
Acclivity Solutions
www.acclivity.ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From what I've read so far it looks relatively straight forward to design
and build a controller (a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing in the
wrong hands). So what Am I missing? What makes them so expensive? Why
haven't any of the many bright, intelligent and knowledgeable people in this
group put something like this together?
Well it's kinda complex....
http://www.metricmind.com/images/l_open.jpg
Might start with something "easy" first:
http://cafeelectric.com/curtis/curtisschematic.pdf
http://cafeelectric.com/curtis/CURTIS7.2.DSN
Take a look at that and increase it's voltage to ~450+ v and ~2,000+
amps. Or build three and combine them for some 3 phase AC...
How to drive 3 phases to make it rotate the motor? Can it only be
done in software?
I guess these guys can do it because they get paid to do it?
http://www.uqm.com/products/controls.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eidson, Mark wrote:
Has anyone ever made a balancing circuit that charges the low voltage
batteries with additional current rather than bleeding off excess
current on the high voltage batteries. An off line switcher IC used for
power bricks would make a fairly simple 2A 12V charger that would run
off the pack voltage. me
Sure! There are lots of them. Commercial products include the Powercheq,
BattEQ, Badicheq, and Smoother. There are also many home-made examples,
such as my Battery Balancer (see
http://www.geocities.com/sorefeets/balancerland/intro.htm
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
