EV Digest 6662
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: OT: Oklahoma - Alternative Fuels Act
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: "bulging" case a visual sign of a bad floodie? - Not really
by robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: a wierd hybrid design .. or it is not wierd
by "Alan Gideon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Converting my F-150
by Dirk Ouellette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: "bulging" case a visual sign of a bad floodie? - Not really
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: OT: Oklahoma - Alternative Fuels Act
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: battery-electric flight
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: motor / go-cart pics
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: motor / go-cart pics
by "Martin Klingensmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Converting my F-150
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) signal wire gage
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Potboxes
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: signal wire gage
by "Garret Maki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Converting my F-150
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: signal wire gage
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Potboxes
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: OT: Oklahoma - Alternative Fuels Act
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Free Electravan
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Converting my F-150
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: a wierd hybrid design .. or it is not wierd
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions & FE
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EV APU (genset) emissions & FE
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Well... Back in 1998:
"Mid-Del Vo-Tech has seen the future, and offers an aggressive EV
Technical Training program at their Tech Center in Oklahoma City under
the auspices of Mike Anderson."
http://www.kingoftheroad.net/charge_across_america/daily/day10.html
And now they offer this:
http://www.mid-del.tec.ok.us/public/programs_ae_class.asp?programid=15&classid=112
How they got that Legislative nonsense setup seems a bit above and beyond.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm working with a non-profit to go on a roadshow to teach people how to revive
batteries. You're probably not aware that Solar Power Roadshow has taught
dozens of people (students, mainly) how to revive batteries at workshops and at
30 Days of Sustainability. Google it.
The non-profit has given instructions to not reveal anything until funding is
in place.
GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is that how your reviver works?
The island-country of Kiribati will be sunk in 15 years
by climate change. May be one solution:
Newspapers and TV news coverage of
our 'no cost' battery for electric vehicles,
solving global warming and pollution at once..
http://tv-news-revived-batteries.blogspot.com/
---------------------------------
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What are the disadvantages?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 11:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: a wierd hybrid design .. or it is not wierd
> dunno if this qualifies as a hybrid since the two drive systems appear
> to be rather independant and separate .. though existing in ONE car !
Sure, it's called a parallel hybrid (some call it a "through the road
parallel hybrid). Has a few advantages and a few disadvantages.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello. I'm new to the list and have a general question.
. What can I do about converting my 2003 F-150 to a less eco abusive
vehicle? I bought it mainly to haul my catarafts to and from the local
whitewater rivers here, around Portland, Oregon. I have the oppurtunity
to convert the truck to all electric using a local distributor of
http://www.metricmind.com/index1.htm, but this allows me only short
trips and I must go 120- 150 miles in some round trips to rivers nearby.
Suggestions please?
Thanks, Dirk
--
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You are teaching people how but can't reveal how? I don't understand.
Please clarify.
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 4:40 pm, robert mat wrote:
I'm working with a non-profit to go on a roadshow to teach people how
to revive batteries. You're probably not aware that Solar Power
Roadshow has taught dozens of people (students, mainly) how to revive
batteries at workshops and at 30 Days of Sustainability. Google it.
The non-profit has given instructions to not reveal anything until
funding is in place.
GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is that how your reviver works?
The island-country of Kiribati will be sunk in 15 years
by climate change. May be one solution:
Newspapers and TV news coverage of
our 'no cost' battery for electric vehicles,
solving global warming and pollution at once..
http://tv-news-revived-batteries.blogspot.com/
---------------------------------
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I lived and drove an EV in Oklahoma not too long ago. This law occurred
because some typical idiots (Joe sixpack type) tried to convert their pickups
to an "alternative fuel" (propane) at some point and blew themselves up. The
state government decided it needed to regulate that practice for safety.
Electricity is classified as an "alternative fuel" along with CNG and propane
and ethanol, etc. It may be harder to kill yourself with an EV, but it is
still very possible, so they left EV's under the same law.
I paid the $50 and took the exam. If you can follow this list for a while with
basic understanding you can pass this exam. The toughest question is what a
zener diode can be used for. The hardest part was finding the right contact to
arrange to take it. The Midwest City tech college actually offers classes on
EV service.
The insurance requirement is met by using your homeowner's insurance - typical
homeowners policies have the required amount of liability coverage already.
The law is really written for companies. It should be changed to address
hobbiests, but it isn't a priority with the legislature.
I have talked with those familiar with the law about this, and they feel that
with hobbyists, it is an unenforceable law. I guarantee no cop knows to check
if you have a license if he finds you working on your high voltage system (like
any of them would knwo what you are doing anyway). There is another similar
law on the books. In some areas, where the parking areas used to hold horses
and wagons as well as cars in the past (like at the old farmer's market in
OKC), provisions were put in to hitch the horses, and sometimes you can still
find some. The law didn't discriminate between modes of transportation, so if
you park where there is an iron ring in front of the parking space, then you
are required by law to hitch up your car to the ring.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:42:12 AM
Subject: OT: Oklahoma - Alternative Fuels Act
Here's some snips from the Alternative Fuels Act regarding EV's. When I found
this out, I was really upset with Oklahoma. If there's an attorney in the
group, can some OKIES, get some advice? I could private you the entire statute.
I think it's the only state that has done this. This is stated in Statues:
74-130.12 through 74-130.24:
§74-130.12. Legislative intent.
It is the intent of the Oklahoma Legislature that the State Board of Career
and Technology Education develop curriculum for the training of technicians for
the installation and conversion of engines to be fueled by alternative fuels as
the technologies are developed. It is further the intent of the Oklahoma
Legislature that Oklahoma State University/Okmulgee develop curriculum for the
training of technicians for the installation, service, modification, repair or
renovation of fill stations. It is further the intent of the Oklahoma
Legislature to enact legislation which promotes the development of technology
in a manner that ensures the health and safety of the citizens of this state.
Examinations for certification as electric vehicle technicians shall be
uniform and practical in nature for electric vehicle technician certification
and shall be sufficiently strict to test the qualifications and fitness of the
applicants for certificates.
Beginning November 1, 1998, it shall be unlawful for any person to perform
the work or offer, by advertisement or otherwise, to perform the work of an
electric vehicle technician until such person has qualified and is certified as
an electric vehicle technician. Electric vehicles that have a manufacturer's
warranty shall be serviced by an authorized new car dealer. Any vehicle
manufacturer's training center located in the state, which offers alternative
fuel and electric vehicle courses meeting new car manufacturing requirements,
shall be exempted from this act. Provided, nothing in the Alternative Fuels
Technician Certification Act shall be construed to prohibit a noncertified
person from converting the engine of a farm tractor, as defined in Section
1-118 of Title 47 of the Oklahoma Statutes, to an engine fueled by alternative
fuels, as long as such farm tractor is not operated on the roads and highways
of this state.
The Department of Central Services shall issue a certificate as an electric
vehicle technician to any person who:
1. Has been certified by the Committee as either having successfully passed
the appropriate examination or having a valid license or certificate issued by
another governmental entity with licensing or certification requirements
similar to those provided in the Alternative Fuels Technician Certification Act;
2. Has paid the certification fee and otherwise complied with the provisions
of the Alternative Fuels Technician Certification Act; and
3. Has provided proof of liability insurance with limits of not less than
Fifty Thousand Dollars ($50,000.00) general liability.
§74-130.23. Violations - Criminal penalties.
Any person convicted of violating any provision of the Alternative Fuels
Technician Certification Act shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. The continued
violation of any provision of the Alternative Fuels Technician Certification
Act during each day shall be deemed to be a separate offense. Upon conviction
thereof the person shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail not to
exceed one (1) year, or by a fine of not more than One Thousand Dollars
($1,000.00), or by both such fine and imprisonment for each offense. The
Alternative Fuels Technician Hearing Board may request the appropriate district
attorney to prosecute such violation and seek an injunction against such
practice.
Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I wonder if its just a business certification to make sure you don't build
something that will kill someone. How does one become
a "certified" EV converter anyway? That must mean those states have someone who
is qualified to "certify" people. hmm, I wonder
;-)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Cor van de Water
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 10:09 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Regen wiring idea/question
>
>
> Just for my info:
> How is the law forbidding an EV conversion?
>
> Just trying to see if the state law is not in violation with higher laws,
> making it null and void... Would not be the first time.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to
friends. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tony Hwang wrote:
The day they have electric intergalactic space travel is around the corner.
:)
This "anti-gravity' spacecraft runs on electricity, even has diagrams on how
to build it.
Enjoy!-
http://www.projectcamelot.net/ralph_ring.html
This -is- an "electric vehicle", therefore on-topic :^D
~~~~~~
Roy LeMeur
_________________________________________________________________
Download Messenger. Join the im Initiative. Help make a difference today.
http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_APR07
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That looks great! You'll be glad the rear wheels are independent, and that you
gave yourself a large lever arm on the steering. Mine uses a kartco chassis
with a live axle (wheels aren't independent), and NO suspension. It's OK as
long as the surface you drive it on is relatively smooth. My steering has such
a small lever arm that the steering rods rub on each other.
I like the frame going around the 'wings.' Is that where the batteries will
go? I had to run steel supports underneath and weld it to the frame, then add
platforms in that shape. It works fine, but a collision will bend those
platforms easily.
I can't help but think the rear wheels are too close together from the way it
looks, but that could be an optical illusion.
I took mine out for the first run of the season today to get it ready for the
kids, and it was a blast. The only bad thing about an EV Go-Kart is that it
throws grass and dust up all over it during use in a yard, so cover up the
motor and controller if you can.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 11:25:25 AM
Subject: motor / go-cart pics
Here are some pictures of the motor and the go-cart frame that I am building
that it is going on:
<http://nnytech.net/~martin/pics/gocart/>
Unfortunately I don't have any pics of the new motor front-plate or shaft
adapter yet.
--
Martin Klingensmith
____________________________________________________________________________________
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David,
The suspension is tricky. I designed it to have more weight in the back than
in the front (obviously)
I'm not too happy with the front wheels as they were quite cheap. The front
wheels are independent but the rear wheels are not. It just wasn't possible
unless I want to make it a lot wider to fit CV joints in there. The rear
wheels are very close together, that is because the rear axle is solid and
I'd like to be able to steer it - the moment of friction (?) is much greater
if the wheels are moved even 6" apart from where they are.
So far the budget sits at $375. The rear wheels are "found"
batteries / motor / frame / misc.
--
Martin K
On 4/12/07, David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
That looks great! You'll be glad the rear wheels are independent, and
that you gave yourself a large lever arm on the steering. Mine uses a
kartco chassis with a live axle (wheels aren't independent), and NO
suspension. It's OK as long as the surface you drive it on is relatively
smooth. My steering has such a small lever arm that the steering rods rub
on each other.
I like the frame going around the 'wings.' Is that where the batteries
will go? I had to run steel supports underneath and weld it to the frame,
then add platforms in that shape. It works fine, but a collision will bend
those platforms easily.
I can't help but think the rear wheels are too close together from the way
it looks, but that could be an optical illusion.
I took mine out for the first run of the season today to get it ready for
the kids, and it was a blast. The only bad thing about an EV Go-Kart is
that it throws grass and dust up all over it during use in a yard, so cover
up the motor and controller if you can.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 11:25:25 AM
Subject: motor / go-cart pics
Here are some pictures of the motor and the go-cart frame that I am
building
that it is going on:
<http://nnytech.net/~martin/pics/gocart/>
Unfortunately I don't have any pics of the new motor front-plate or shaft
adapter yet.
--
Martin Klingensmith
____________________________________________________________________________________
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367
--
Martin Klingensmith
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dirk,
without knowing all your EV driving needs (regular short trips,
always long trips, etc.), what other vehicles you drive/own, your
budget, where you would charge, and many other parameters that
help people choose which cleaner vehicle that fits their needs ...
I would not recommend converting your F-150 to Electric with
a 150 mile range between charges, or even considering going
hybrid.
A web search on your name, brought up oregonwhitewater.org
I assume you want to be able to drive your F-150 out deep into
the Oregon wilderness, but do it cleaner/more environmentally
benign than running on petroleum.
Please email me directly / off-line for some non-EV-List AFV
options I can suggest (these AFV topics would be OT or Off-Topic
for discussion on the EV List).
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
: MEPIS Linux & WiFi powered :
____________________________________________________________________________________
Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel
bargains.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is 18 gage a suitable size for signal wires.
In particular I was thinking about using 2 conductor 18 gage
telephone wire from home depot for the connections between Ammeter
gages (1 to a motor loop shunt and 1 battery loop shunt) as well as
the wiring for my traction pack (144v) voltmeter?
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day All
I've been discussing off-list with a couple of guys alternatives to the
Curtis potboxes. The bottom line of the discussion comes to getting kits of
parts laser cut to be able to assemble potboxes similar to the Curtis
series of boxes, but with care in the design improve on them. It is not
something I'd expect to make any money out of, more as an item to trade
around for other things that I need, saving me money in other areas.
I've never had a close look at any version of the Curtis boxes, but from
the photos and sales guff on-line it seems that it is necessary to define
left or right handed actuation, and wether to have limit switch or not.
Another thing I notice is that there is no cable anchor point for the
sleeve of the operating cable.
So what I see as improvements to the Curtis design is:
* Ability to assemble it left or right handed (and dis-assemble it to
change it if needed).
* A "horn" of some description to mount the cable sleeve to (probably going
off both sides to use a straight pull spring for the return spring).
* Holes to add a throttle-off limit switch (and a WOT switch if desired)
* Actuator arm consisting of a slotted, infinitely adjustable arm length
that is a pair of arms with the cable in between, rather than one that is a
row of holes.
For two-wire systems the pot seems obvious - use a standard, 270-degree,
25K-ohm pot and just move it the first 1/5 of the operating range.
For 3-wire it gets more complex - either a wire-wound pot that the wire can
be got at in order to "tap" the 1/5 rotation point, or a x5 gear set to
rotate a 5k pot fully.
Comments/opinions/flak?
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes on the gauge. No the telephone wire if it isn't twisted for the amp
meter. The amp shunt is most likely 50mV full scale, so you will want
to use a twisted pair to reject magnetic interference.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 9:41 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: signal wire gage
Is 18 gage a suitable size for signal wires.
In particular I was thinking about using 2 conductor 18 gage
telephone wire from home depot for the connections between Ammeter
gages (1 to a motor loop shunt and 1 battery loop shunt) as well as
the wiring for my traction pack (144v) voltmeter?
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
you can make it hybrid if it is an automatic:
http://www.go-ev.com/p20070301_EMIS_Release.html
--- Dirk Ouellette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello. I'm new to the list and have a general
> question.
> . What can I do about converting my 2003 F-150 to a
> less eco abusive
> vehicle? I bought it mainly to haul my catarafts to
> and from the local
> whitewater rivers here, around Portland, Oregon. I
> have the oppurtunity
> to convert the truck to all electric using a local
> distributor of
> http://www.metricmind.com/index1.htm, but this
> allows me only short
> trips and I must go 120- 150 miles in some round
> trips to rivers nearby.
> Suggestions please?
> Thanks, Dirk
> --
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Garret Maki wrote:
> Yes on the gauge. No the telephone wire if it isn't twisted
> for the amp meter. The amp shunt is most likely 50mV full
> scale, so you will want to use a twisted pair to reject
> magnetic interference.
Also avoid telephone cable if it is solid rather than stranded as it
will fatigue and break sooner than stranded wire due to the vibration in
a vehicle.
I'd use twisted pair for all signal connections, not just the ammeter
sense lines. Guage-wise you are really limited by the mechanical
strength of the wires; 18ga is a decent choice.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can make a 270 deg rotation with the cable itself
if you really want:
Just take a small diameter pulley and mount that on
the pot axle.
It will need either a spring that winds up with the
pot movement to pull it back or after going around
the pulley 360deg you guide the cable off the pulley onto
a straight spring, continuing in the same direction
as the cable comes in from the accelerator.
This cancels any sideways force on the axle of the pot.
This setup is also "self-adjusting" in that when the
cable slides a bit on the pulley, applying the accelerator
fully and releasing it completely will center the
pot position again, due to the pot hitting the end stop
and the cable sliding on the pulley instead of damaging
the pot. You can add end stops to avoif damaging the pot
if you want to make sure.
If you want to block the position of the wire on the pulley
then you can make two small cuts near each other to guide
the wire out and back into the pulley V-groove, or drill
a hole and tap a set-screw or weld a L-shaped strip onto the
side of the pulley and over the groove to hold a set-screw
to fix the wire position.
This attachment must be in the 90 deg area where the wire
never leaves the pulley.
Note: it must be low enough to not hit the wire when in
the extreme position(s)
Many pulleys come with set-screws to fix their position
on the (pot) axle.
Hope this helps,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of James Massey
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 8:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Potboxes
G'day All
I've been discussing off-list with a couple of guys alternatives to the
Curtis potboxes. The bottom line of the discussion comes to getting kits of
parts laser cut to be able to assemble potboxes similar to the Curtis series
of boxes, but with care in the design improve on them. It is not something
I'd expect to make any money out of, more as an item to trade around for
other things that I need, saving me money in other areas.
I've never had a close look at any version of the Curtis boxes, but from the
photos and sales guff on-line it seems that it is necessary to define left
or right handed actuation, and wether to have limit switch or not.
Another thing I notice is that there is no cable anchor point for the sleeve
of the operating cable.
So what I see as improvements to the Curtis design is:
* Ability to assemble it left or right handed (and dis-assemble it to change
it if needed).
* A "horn" of some description to mount the cable sleeve to (probably going
off both sides to use a straight pull spring for the return spring).
* Holes to add a throttle-off limit switch (and a WOT switch if desired)
* Actuator arm consisting of a slotted, infinitely adjustable arm length
that is a pair of arms with the cable in between, rather than one that is a
row of holes.
For two-wire systems the pot seems obvious - use a standard, 270-degree,
25K-ohm pot and just move it the first 1/5 of the operating range.
For 3-wire it gets more complex - either a wire-wound pot that the wire can
be got at in order to "tap" the 1/5 rotation point, or a x5 gear set to
rotate a 5k pot fully.
Comments/opinions/flak?
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If that ring is powered, you can use this hitch to charge and comply with
the law ;-)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Brandt
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 6:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: OT: Oklahoma - Alternative Fuels Act
I lived and drove an EV in Oklahoma not too long ago. This law occurred
because some typical idiots (Joe sixpack type) tried to convert their
pickups to an "alternative fuel" (propane) at some point and blew themselves
up. The state government decided it needed to regulate that practice for
safety. Electricity is classified as an "alternative fuel" along with CNG
and propane and ethanol, etc. It may be harder to kill yourself with an EV,
but it is still very possible, so they left EV's under the same law.
I paid the $50 and took the exam. If you can follow this list for a while
with basic understanding you can pass this exam. The toughest question is
what a zener diode can be used for. The hardest part was finding the right
contact to arrange to take it. The Midwest City tech college actually
offers classes on EV service.
The insurance requirement is met by using your homeowner's insurance -
typical homeowners policies have the required amount of liability coverage
already. The law is really written for companies. It should be changed to
address hobbiests, but it isn't a priority with the legislature.
I have talked with those familiar with the law about this, and they feel
that with hobbyists, it is an unenforceable law. I guarantee no cop knows
to check if you have a license if he finds you working on your high voltage
system (like any of them would knwo what you are doing anyway). There is
another similar law on the books. In some areas, where the parking areas
used to hold horses and wagons as well as cars in the past (like at the old
farmer's market in OKC), provisions were put in to hitch the horses, and
sometimes you can still find some. The law didn't discriminate between
modes of transportation, so if you park where there is an iron ring in front
of the parking space, then you are required by law to hitch up your car to
the ring.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:42:12 AM
Subject: OT: Oklahoma - Alternative Fuels Act
Here's some snips from the Alternative Fuels Act regarding EV's. When I
found this out, I was really upset with Oklahoma. If there's an attorney in
the group, can some OKIES, get some advice? I could private you the entire
statute. I think it's the only state that has done this. This is stated
in Statues: 74-130.12 through 74-130.24:
§74-130.12. Legislative intent.
It is the intent of the Oklahoma Legislature that the State Board of
Career and Technology Education develop curriculum for the training of
technicians for the installation and conversion of engines to be fueled by
alternative fuels as the technologies are developed. It is further the
intent of the Oklahoma Legislature that Oklahoma State University/Okmulgee
develop curriculum for the training of technicians for the installation,
service, modification, repair or renovation of fill stations. It is further
the intent of the Oklahoma Legislature to enact legislation which promotes
the development of technology in a manner that ensures the health and safety
of the citizens of this state.
Examinations for certification as electric vehicle technicians shall be
uniform and practical in nature for electric vehicle technician
certification and shall be sufficiently strict to test the qualifications
and fitness of the applicants for certificates.
Beginning November 1, 1998, it shall be unlawful for any person to perform
the work or offer, by advertisement or otherwise, to perform the work of an
electric vehicle technician until such person has qualified and is certified
as an electric vehicle technician. Electric vehicles that have a
manufacturer's warranty shall be serviced by an authorized new car dealer.
Any vehicle manufacturer's training center located in the state, which
offers alternative fuel and electric vehicle courses meeting new car
manufacturing requirements, shall be exempted from this act. Provided,
nothing in the Alternative Fuels Technician Certification Act shall be
construed to prohibit a noncertified person from converting the engine of a
farm tractor, as defined in Section 1-118 of Title 47 of the Oklahoma
Statutes, to an engine fueled by alternative fuels, as long as such farm
tractor is not operated on the roads and highways of this state.
The Department of Central Services shall issue a certificate as an
electric vehicle technician to any person who:
1. Has been certified by the Committee as either having successfully
passed the appropriate examination or having a valid license or certificate
issued by another governmental entity with licensing or certification
requirements similar to those provided in the Alternative Fuels Technician
Certification Act;
2. Has paid the certification fee and otherwise complied with the
provisions of the Alternative Fuels Technician Certification Act; and
3. Has provided proof of liability insurance with limits of not less than
Fifty Thousand Dollars ($50,000.00) general liability.
§74-130.23. Violations - Criminal penalties.
Any person convicted of violating any provision of the Alternative Fuels
Technician Certification Act shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. The
continued violation of any provision of the Alternative Fuels Technician
Certification Act during each day shall be deemed to be a separate offense.
Upon conviction thereof the person shall be punished by imprisonment in the
county jail not to exceed one (1) year, or by a fine of not more than One
Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00), or by both such fine and imprisonment for each
offense. The Alternative Fuels Technician Hearing Board may request the
appropriate district attorney to prosecute such violation and seek an
injunction against such practice.
Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I wonder if its just a business certification to make sure you don't build
something that will kill someone. How does one become a "certified" EV
converter anyway? That must mean those states have someone who is qualified
to "certify" people. hmm, I wonder
;-)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Cor van de Water
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 10:09 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Regen wiring idea/question
>
>
> Just for my info:
> How is the law forbidding an EV conversion?
>
> Just trying to see if the state law is not in violation with higher
> laws, making it null and void... Would not be the first time.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130 Second Life:
> www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected
to friends. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence,
Is this the Electravan 600 (Subaru mini-bus) or 750 (Ford Courier pickup
conversion)?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tim Humphrey
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:58 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Free Electravan
Hmmm... that's interesting.
The Electravan motor/trans combo on the evtradinpost.com just happens to be
in Berkeley also.
Wish I was in Berkeley. Nah, not really. I like it here.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:01:50 -0700, "Lawrence Rhodes"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I saw the Electravan. It is rough but no rougher than my Electravan
> was when I got it. EVen in out dry environment the bottom of both
> fenders had rust at the bottoms. However the back battery box is
> intact with no rust from acid drip. Mine had several holes. It is
> mostly there. Needs new windshield. No motor or transmission. The
> body is straight. Taking this for free will save mega time in EV
> construction. It EVen has the highvoltage cables to the rear box intact.
This is a durable vehicle.
> I'd
> run not walk into this project. It's all setup for electric conversion.
> It's located in Berkeley. Call number below for details Don't contact
> me
> unless you have questions of the physical condition. Lawrence
> Rhodes.......
>
>
>
> --- Amber Rich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 15:26:06 -0700
>> From: "Amber Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Subject: ElectraVan Body
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We have an old ElectraVan body (motor has been taken apart over the
>> years). It is in pretty rough shape. We would love to have it
>> working for our organization, but we don't have the time or resources
>> to do so, thus we are looking to get rid of the body. It may be that
>> it just has to be sent to the scrap yard, but I wanted to check and
>> see if someone out there might be able to make use of it since it
>> seems to be a great moment in EV history, and hopefully just a
>> beginning.
>>
>> We appreciate any advice that you may have.
>>
>> Amber Rich
>> Executive Director
>> Tinkers Workshop
>> 510 644 2577
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Hello. I'm new to the list and have a general question.
> . What can I do about converting my 2003 F-150 to a less eco abusive
> vehicle? I bought it mainly to haul my catarafts to and from the local
> whitewater rivers here, around Portland, Oregon. I have the oppurtunity
> to convert the truck to all electric using a local distributor of
> http://www.metricmind.com/index1.htm, but this allows me only short
> trips and I must go 120- 150 miles in some round trips to rivers nearby.
> Suggestions please?
> Thanks, Dirk
Unless you have gobs of money eating a whole in your pocket, your options
are pretty limited. Best bet is probably to wait until the auto makers
come out with a decent hybrid truck.
Battery power and big vehicles are not an ideal combination. Battery
power for long range (>50miles) is tough and/or expensive.
Battery power for a big vehicle to get long range is just plain expensive.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Its more Complicated than some of the other options. Adjusting the power
between the two separate drive systems for example.
There can be handling issues if not engineered properly.
No direct path for charging the batteries using the ICE except through
regen while driving. You can add a generator head coupled directly to the
ICE, but that adds complexity, cost, and weight.
and probably a few more than don't come to mind right now.
> What are the disadvantages?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 11:51 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: a wierd hybrid design .. or it is not wierd
>
>
>> dunno if this qualifies as a hybrid since the two drive systems appear
>> to be rather independant and separate .. though existing in ONE car !
>
> Sure, it's called a parallel hybrid (some call it a "through the road
> parallel hybrid). Has a few advantages and a few disadvantages.
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
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--- Begin Message ---
As I recall, Curtis still makes regen controllers, or at least did until
recently.
However, they will not sell them to hobbiests, at least not hobbiests in
the USA. Apparently they had too many problems with folks fireballing
their motors and/or controllers and decided they didn't want the
headaches.
> Well, I have a Curtis 1221R (R means it has regen) in for repair at the
> moment. There is almost no difference between it and a standard Curtis
> -- the usual small control board is replaced with two slightly larger
> boards. The extra parts might add 5% to the manufacturing cost of the
> controller. Externally, you need a couple more big contactors; they
> represent most of the cost of adding regen.
>
> It appears that Curtis found that the market for a regen controller was
> so small that it wasn't worth producing it. Maybe they sell 100 on-road
> EV controllers a year, and regen controllers was only 10% of that. It's
> not worth marketing a product that sells in that low a volume. So the
> last I heard, they only make them for special orders where the customer
> is willing to pay for an entire production run.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
> On 4/9/07, Randy Burleson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > A typical genny, even one of the new OHV 4-stroke inverter gennies,
>> > are not especially efficient or clean.
>> Which doesn't mean that we can't do better -- *IF* efficiency or
>> cleanliness happens to be the goal. Some folks may just be looking to
>> make that extra few miles of their commute. There's lots of rationale
>> not to do it, but precious little *recent* experimentation.
>>
>> > I've read about technology that scans the road looking for emissions
>> > cheats, I don't know if it's actually in use though.
>> FWIW, this is *real* and California is using it, but it is also pretty
>> isolated. I see it about twice a year around Sacramento.
>>
>> Randii
>>
>>
> I believe that efficiency can be made a lot better with a permanent magnet
> alternator like is used on homemade windmills.
Are you talking about the home made alternators? From what I've read they
typically have relatively poor efficiency, usually 70% or so. Their big
appeal is that they generate power at low RPMs and are relatively
inexpensive, compared to commercially available windmills.
The low RPMs makes them unsuitable for ICE generators. Plus, even if the
alternator had high efficiency, you'd still be dealing with the low
efficiency of the smal ICE.
--
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