The green wire in the Anderson connector is connected to the AC ground wire connection in the charger and at the AC plug. If you are using the Manzanita Micro charger as a off board charger and the batteries are setting on a metal frame that is bonded to a metal car body, than you connect the Anderson green wire to the metal frame of the EV.
If the vehicle is a non-conductive material and/or the batteries are in a non-conductive battery box with the batteries disconnected from any outside circuits, then you do not have to bond the ground wire at the vehicle. If this type of charger enclosure is connected and/or bonded to the metal frame of the EV, the charger ground and the pass through ground wire at the Anderson connection is also grounded, do not touch any battery terminal while the charger is on while standing on wet ground. Knowing isolated ground circuits I have design and install in commercial and industrial settings, I have install a isolated grounding circuit in my EV using a on board Manzanita charger. In a El Camino, I completely insulated the steel bed with 2-inches of high density blue foam that has a compression rating of 25 lbs per square inch. This foam is then cover with a tight weave marine nylon carpet. The battery box is made with 1/4 inch thick epoxy fiberglass which is spray with a acid proof porcelain coating on the inside side. The outside is also cover with 2 inches of blue foam and also cover with the marine nylon carpet. The batteries have never drop below 65 F. setting out side at 20- F. for about 8 hours using this type of insulation method. The batteries are disconnected by use of two 600 amp contactors from any other circuits while the battery charger is on or when the EV is not in used which does not allow the battery charger current to pass through the Zilla motor controller to one of the motor terminals. I found this out in my first EV that did not have these safety contactors and using a aluminum battery box. When I was charging the batteries, the current past through the motor controller to one of the motor terminals, on to the communtator, down the face of the communtator which arc across the motor shaft insulator sleeve. Installing a non-conductor battery box and safety contactors, installing the battery charger in another fiber glass enclosure and only AC ground the charger and left the ground at the DC end not connected or call floating, there was no voltage between any battery terminal and the frame of the vehicle when charging. I also install a 125-250 volt ground fault breaker on board between the main input connector and battery charger. It will only open if there is a fault in the charger circuit which detects a unbalance current flow between the two power lines. Roland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Eckhoff" <[email protected]> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 8:08 AM Subject: [EVDL] Isolated vs non-isolated [was 100ah pack on the cheap] > I've been listening to you all talk of isolated vs non-isolated here and > I am trying to get my head wrapped around this issue. On the Manzanita > Micro charger, when I look at the AC plug, I see a grounding pin and 3 > other blades. I assume that the unit is "grounded". On the recharging > end, I see a small Anderson connector and a green wire which I assume is > a grounding wire. If the unit is grounded, what is the danger or > dangerous act? For instance, if I assume I'm standing barefoot in the > proverbial puddle of water, and > > 1) if the pack is being recharged and the case is attached to the car > frame , what should I **not** touch? What can I touch and not be in > danger? > > If I can't touch the car, then that **is** very very dangerous. > If I can't touch a battery terminal, then that is not as dangerous > but inherently dangerous when working on the car near a terminal. > > 2) If the charger is plugged in and **not** recharging, what is the > danger? > > > On 6/15/2013 1:00 AM, Lee Hart wrote: > > rustybkts wrote: > >> I have seen it mentioned before that the Manzanita chargers are not > >> isolated > >> from the mains. > >> > >> As this is inherently very dangerous, I am surprised they are even > >> allowed > >> to be sold and have never heard of any non isolated power supply being > >> available in Europe. > >> > >> Can anyone expand on how this can be allowed? > > > > 1. Regulatory standards are *voluntary* in most parts of the USA. Safety > > agency listings like UL, ETL, etc. are not required by law, except in > > a few places where local ordinances have been passed to require it. > > (Two places I know of are Chicago IL and Los Angeles CA). > > > > Thus, you can sell just about anything. The limiting factor is that > > the seller can be SUED if the product causes damage or injury. Most > > companies decide to get a safety agency listing (like UL or ETL) so > > they can testify in court that their product has been tested and > > met safety standards. > > > > 2. Non-isolated products are very common. Many consumer products leave > > out isolation as a cost-cutting measure. Toasters, stoves, dryers, > > air conditioners, and pretty much all high-power products are not > > isolated. > > > > However, there are safety standards that apply to such products. > > The standards say that the case must be grounded, there must be > > no possible way for a consumer to touch any of the potentially > > "hot" wires coming from it, and it must have extra-strong insulation > > between anything the consumer can touch and the AC line. Again, > > complying with the standards is voluntary, though most manufacturers > > follow them to avoid being bankrupt by lawsuits. > > > > > A simple component failure will expose the output terminals to the > > > mains supply. > > > > Actually, the output terminals are *always* connected to the mains > > supply. In effect, the charger is a bridge rectifier from the AC line > > to the output terminals, plus a non-isolated buck/boost voltage > > converter. > > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
