Lots of discussion and good points since I last checked in yesterday. Thanks, everybody! I'll try to hit all the high points in this single note.
On Dec 22, 2014, at 6:36 AM, Michael Ross <[email protected]> wrote: > It is important to know what your present and future power needs are. That much is basically covered. The system is already in place, has been running for a few years, and produces about half again as much as I use; I intentionally oversized it so I could accommodate an EV, and I'm still working on the EV part. And, of course, if the numbers work out, I'll add a mix of more panels and batteries rather than just batteries alone. > On the battery front - you live an a place that gets quite hot, it get hot > when have a lot of sunlight. This means you will subject your batteries to > the worst possible conditions for their life - high heat and high state of > charge. The batteries will live with the inverter, etc., indoors at the back of a walk-in closet. There's a duct (plus jump return) in that room, so it shares the same airconditioning as the rest of the house. On Dec 22, 2014, at 6:55 AM, Chris Tromley via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > One thing I noticed after moving from SoCal is that almost everyone on the > east coast has a basement. And even without climate control, it stays > around 60 degrees down there year 'round. Basements are rare here in Arizona, and I don't have one. Geothermal climate control makes all kinds of sense...for new construction. And it basically never makes sense for a retrofit, except in rare circumstances where you've got lots of property nearby you can excavate and re-fill. On Dec 22, 2014, at 8:03 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > One way to compromise is to throw a small ICE generator into the mix. That may well be a good idea. Or, when I finally do get an EV on the road, figure out the V2H thing. On Dec 22, 2014, at 8:25 AM, Rick Beebe via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > You should write to your local representatives as well since rate increases > from power companies usually have to be approved by the local Public > Utilities Commission. Salt River Project is a quasi-governmental agency and not regulated by the Arizona Corporation Commission as the other utilities are. The buck stops with them, basically. > Get the newspapers involved. I hand-delivered a copy of my letter to SRP's CEO to the editor of The Arizona Republic. And I'm pretty sure a couple news outlets have already run a story or three. > With a couple hundred thousand EVs now on the roads there are now a > measurable number involved in accidents. As such, used--but not worn > out--battery packs are now available through salvage yards and on eBay. And > some vendors are selling (and supporting) used modules. EVWest (evwest.com), > for example, is selling some used modules from (I believe) Smart EDs. This is what I was hoping to get some help with here...what sorts of figures should I broadly expect as fair to pay per kWh of battery capacity in such a battery, and what sort of lifespan should I expect out of them? I'm not looking to price and purchase a system; I'm basically trying to figure out how competitive such an option is compared with something like an immortal nickel-iron battery, and also to get a better handle on what to prepare for. > As others have said, you really need to look at the documentation for your > inverter. It's a PowerOne Aurora...and I've yet to dig up its documentation...my bad.... On Dec 22, 2014, at 9:08 AM, Zeke Yewdall <[email protected]> wrote: > If you want to completely off grid (what SRP and others are pushing us > towards) then magnum is a good brand [...] Thanks for the various recommendations. I'll look into them. Seems like I should brace myself for the possibility that I'll have to either sell my current inverter (I'm sure at a loss) to pay for a grid-replacement one, or that I'll wind up with a second inverter in addition to the one I have. On Dec 22, 2014, at 9:21 AM, jim via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > In the past, friends that used Nickel-iron (Edison) batteries found that the > voltage range from discharged to useful charged to charging voltage was too > great for existing charging systems and inverters. they aren't as efficient > as lead acid or lithium, either, as far as I can find ou. Good to know; not something I've come across yet, but something I'll definitely have to watch out for -- including if I go the homebrew route for the batteries. On Dec 22, 2014, at 9:07 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > So, 3 times $8/mo is $24/mo. Big deal... If only it were 3*8! It's actually 3*17 at a minimum...it's still not clear if they're planning on increasing the basic connection fee from $17 to $50, or if the $50 is a solar penalty in addition to the $17 basic connection fee. Either way, that puts the monthly rates at the bottom end of the total monthly range I was paying before I went solar, and well into the range of long-term financial sense to go entirely off the grid. Remember the Rule of 70. If it takes 20 years to pay off an investment, that's equal to about an 3.5% annual rate of return. A 20-year T-bill right now is only paying about 2.5%, and will take about 28 years to double. Even if it takes 20 years to pay off the battery system, I still come out ahead with that as opposed to buying T-bills. Not to mention all the benefits of energy independence and not having to deal with this kind of bullshit over the course of those two decades.... > 1) Since you have to oversize your battery capacity to handle cloudy days, > then BY DEFINITION, on every additional SUNNY day in a row, then your > batteries are FULL and cannot accept any more charge. Thus you are > WASTING almost all of your solar panel investment on GOOD SUNNY DAYS in a > row!!! (and most every summer day). That's the main reason why, all things equal, I'd rather stay on the grid, and why I'm hoping SRP will come to its senses. I'd much rather my surplus generating capacity go to keeping peaking power plants offline that much longer. But I'm not willing to donate to SRP a third or so of what I spent before I installed solar just for the privilege of not wasting my surplus. > 2) Even if you have say 5 days storage, that is miniscule compared to 365 > days storage you get with the grid! In other words, you have no place to > store the TWO-TIMES additional PV electricity you generate in the summer > for when you need it most, in the winter. What a loss! Agreed, it's wasteful. But it's still the better fiscal investment for me if SRP follows through with their proposal. Fortunately, it seems there's no rush for me on this. SRP is proposing grandfathering existing customers for some period of time, maybe even a decade. Still, time for me to start making plans now, start saving up for it ahead of time, rather than get caught at the last minute over a barrel.... Thanks again, everybody! Very helpful, and much appreciated. b& _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
