On Aug 17, 2015, at 2:58 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > But in full disclosure, I am a solar junkie, and if I remember correctly, > you are a hydrogen lobbyist paid to undermine EV's in favor of the > fool-cell hydrogen economy.
You do NOT remember correctly: - I am not a lobbyist. - I have a long history of supporting, not undermining, battery electric vehicles. (and don't forget, fuel cell electric vehicles (careful your spelling) EVs, too). In fact, my paid work involves recommending funding the purchase of battery electric vehicles and their infrastructure. - I also am a strong supporter of fuel cell electric vehicles (you got that right) > Your painting of EV's with the coal brush > undermines your credibility too. I wasn't referring to your credibility, and I wasn't painting anything with a coal brush. I merely pointed out that in an area where coal is a major part of electricity production, when the issue gets raised, an advocate would be better served to say that "yes, a lot of electricity here comes from coal, BUT: - you can cost-effectively charge it with solar; or - you can purchase RECs; or - (insert your favorite reason why buying a BEV is still a good option)" If you don't think that's a better strategy than denial to get more solar and BEV users, that's fine. Use whatever works for you. I think you misinterpreted my earlier comments, but that no reason for a personal attack. (And yes, I'm a strong solar supporter, too, and have spent my own time pressing for better policies and programs.) > > Bob > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Abramowitz [mailto:ma...@enviropolicy.com] > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 4:34 PM > To: Robert Bruninga; Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV facts, coal and shooting ourselves in the foot > > I think I agree with everything you said EXCEPT that if coals provides > most power, it *is* an issue, and a matter of credibility if you don't > acknowledge it. > > Sure, if there are options to avoid that, by all means, point those out. > In fact, it doesn't really matter what % is using those options. > > I don't think I said anything about condemning EV owners. > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 17, 2015, at 1:20 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> > wrote: > >>> I agree, but in some areas a lot of the energy *is* being produced by >>> coal. So there's a need to avoid understating that. >> >> I disagree completely. Electricity can be 90% coal in some areas, but >> if 83% of EV owners are putting up solar or subscribing to wind power >> then there is no need to condem all EV owners for coal when only 17% >> of them are using it and intend to continue to use it. >> >>> Fortunately, the amount of electricity produced by coal will be >>> dropping fairly quickly. >> >> But for 83% of us, it has dropped to Zero NOW. We aren't waiting. >> >> I'll be darned if I am going to be condemned for burning coal when I >> don't. Just like I don't like the implication that if 20% of >> Americans smoke, then on average, I smoke 4 out of every cigarette in >> every pack of 20. I don't smoke any and I don't use ANY coal for fuel > for my EV. >> >> Bob, WB4APR >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>> On Aug 17, 2015, at 6:05 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV >>> <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: >>> >>> Who would have thought even a decade ago that FORD would be issuing >>> apparently pro-EV news releases? >>> >>> That said, IMO we need to be a little more careful how we use the >>> Ford survey data. It doesn't say that 83% of EV owners are charging >>> their EVs with PV. It says that 83% of them HAVE or ARE INTERESTED >>> IN GETTING PV capacity. That's a pretty substantial difference. >>> >>> Regrettably I can't find a web resource that breaks out the have-its >>> from the wanna-have-its. So, this number doesn't really tell us >>> anything about how many current EV owners are charging with >>> alternative >> energy. >>> >>> What it does suggest is a strong correlation between EV ownership and >>> environmental consciousness. >>> >>> In terms of selling and promoting EVs, you can view this in two ways. >>> One is that promoters should "fish where the fish are," and continue >>> pushing EVs "green cred" or even increase these efforts. The other >>> is to say that the way to increased EV adoption is to edge toward >>> promoting their dollars-and- cents value. >>> >>> Which is the right EV promotion strategy? To determine that, we >>> should look at the reasons that owners bought gas-only "hybrids" >>> 10-12 years ago, vs why they buy them today. If we see a substantial >>> increase in Prius and other non-pluggable "hybrid" sales among >>> cost-conscious buyers over that decade, that might suggest that at >>> some point (though maybe not yet) we should swing toward promoting >>> EVs' economic benefits. If the majority of non-plug "hybrid" buyers >>> still buy them for their "greenness," that argues in favor of the >>> first >> strategy above. >>> >>> Either way, we have a big job ahead of us to counter the growing >>> negative PR being dispensed by the traditional energy providers. >>> They have way more media clout than we do, and seem to be doing very >>> well at sowing FUD about EVs supposedly "increasing pollution" with >>> trumped-up, bogus data about coal fired powerplants. >>> >>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA >>> EVDL Administrator >>> >>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL >>> Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >>> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. >>> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the >>> webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . >>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA >>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA >> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA >> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
