> Do you think that we should stick with ICE engines forever? Yes, but not in the gas-tank/gas-station legacy thinkg we have heard about it ad-nauseum before.
I do think that eventually, the long haul trucking will go to hydrogen. Hydrogen generated as a BIPRODUCT of massive over-power dumping when solar and wind peak. But NOT attempting to replace gasoline stations on every corner, but only hydrogen fueling at major trucking centers. The 99% of the hydrogen generated due to solar/wind surplus will be STORED right where it is produced. And then re-combined(burned) right where produced to put the energy back into the grid at night. Generating and later burning hydrogen in large plants to even out the energy from renewables makes sense in the long run. Trying to trickle out that bulk hydrogen through 300 million tiny pipes to every town and city and intersection in the country is simply dumb. IMHO Bob WB4APR -----Original Message----- From: Peri Hartman [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 9:38 AM To: Robert Bruninga; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re[2]: [EVDL] EVLN: 200mi EVs make L3 50kW/1hr charging too slow> need L3 150kW/20min EVSE With the current and near future technology I completely agree. Do you think that we should stick with ICE engines forever? We could, with improvements in generating biofuels from waste, gasoline becomes a sort of battery. But a terribly inefficient one. Peri ------ Original Message ------ From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" <[email protected]> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> Sent: 20-Jun-16 5:56:29 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 200mi EVs make L3 50kW/1hr charging too slow> need L3 150kW/20min EVSE >What makes no sense is trying to use EV's is driving long distances. >Use >the right tool for the job. It makes about as much sense to buy an EV >for interstate travel as it does to buy a push mower for an acre. > >Get a PIH. The idea of electrification of transportation is to stop >burning away our limited oil supplies just going to and from work and >daily local travel. Save it for where it is needed most. Aircraft and >long distance travel. It makes no sense to try to force EV's to go >long distances where it makes no sense, and then to complain it takes >so long to charge a >250 >mile battery. The problem is the *wrong* car for the job. Not the >wrong charger. > >Bob, WB4APR > >-----Original Message----- >From: EV [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via >EV >Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 3:23 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: 200mi EVs make L3 50kW/1hr charging too slow> >need L3 150kW/20min EVSE > >[ref >http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-200mi >-EVs-make-L3-50kW-1hr-charging-rather-slow-gt-need-L3-150kW-20min-EVSE- >td4682679.html >] > >http://cleantechnica.com/2016/06/15/whats-story-ev-fast-charging/ >What’s The Story With EV Superfast Charging? >June 15th, 2016 Zachary Shahan > >[image >http://c1cleantechnicacom.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/files/2015/07/Fastned >-Charging-Station-570x380.jpeg >Fastned Charging Station > >http://c1cleantechnicacom.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/files/2016/05/electri >c-project-tent-t-fastned-knorrestein-nl-full-570x378.jpg >] > >One of the top things I criticize conventional automakers about is EV >fast charging — or lack thereof. Well, since automakers and charging >companies have adopted the term “fast charging” for rather slow 50 kW >charging, what I technically push is “superfast charging” (I know, it’s >a great “technical” >term. To match it up with industry terminology a bit more, I’ve also >termed it Level 4 charging.”) If this is all a bit new to you, here’s a >brief summary of the key points as they stand today: > >The fastest non-Tesla EV fast-charging stations out there can charge a >~200-mile electric car like the Chevy Bolt (if it has the capability) >from 0–80% in approximately 1 hour, or 30–80% in approximately 35 >minutes. > >Driving for a couple of hours, and then charging for an hour, and then >driving for a couple of hours, and then charging for an hour, just >isn’t a convenient way to take a road trip. The story is probably even >less convenient if you are stopping at shorter intervals to charge due >to charging stations not being widespread enough to be placed exactly >where you want them. > >Tesla Superchargers are up to 120 kW in output capacity, and can thus >charge a Tesla approximately twice as fast as the fast chargers noted >above. > >[image] Tesla Supercharging stations expected by end of 2016. >Exciting as it may be, turning a 6-hour road trip into an 18-hour road >trip isn’t likely to win over many people in the mainstream car market. > >Faster CHAdeMO & CCS Charging Standards Compete With Tesla >Supercharging > >We’ve gotten word in the past year that the two open fast-charging >standards (CCS and CHAdeMO) have increased their max rates to 150 kW, >CHAdeMO doing so as recently as this past month. However, as far as I >know, there isn’t a single superfast-charging station out there as part >of a network drivers can use (presuming their cars are even equipped to >make use of it), and there are no public announcements of companies >planning broad superfast-charging networks. So, I contacted our good >friends at Fastned, a charging network leader based in the Netherlands, >to see if they had any knowledge on the matter that they could share. > >The helpful spokeswoman for the company directed me to this recent >article on the Fastned blog, which has a number of interesting tidbits >in it, and is a great summary on EV fast charging in general. > >First of all, it’s worth pointing out that there’s unlikely to be much >movement on superfast charging until automakers have cars on the market >that can make use of it, and such cars are in the works. Today, the Kia >Soul EV is the only non-Tesla electric car that has a charging capacity >up to >100 kW >(the max is typically 50 kW), but the fully electric Hyundai Ioniq is >supposed to have the same, and Volkswagen Group (including Volkswagen, >Audi, and Porsche) has made announcements that make it clear future >electric models should have capability up to or even above 150 kW (the >Audi Q6 e-tron planned for 2018 and the Porsche Mission E planned for >~2020, for example). >Yes, Volkswagen is particularly popular on vaporware forums, but the >plans seem legit, so let’s not be too cynical. Still, these cars are >years away, and there’s no strong sign that the automaker is aiming to >bring about a genuinely satisfactory superfast-charging network. > >Oh yeah, something I don’t recall seeing previously is that the >next-generation Nissan LEAF might be able to use 150 kW CHAdeMO >superfast charging, but Fastned mentions this in the blog as well. >Nissan has been heavily involved in rolling out a somewhat decent >(depends who you ask) fast-charging network in the US and Japan, and >one would presume that it would work hard to upgrade these stations to >provide up to 150 kW. > >… But Who Will Build The Superfast-Charging Networks? > >Even if Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW, Nissan, etc., are planning >long-range electric cars with superfast-charging capability, I’m quite >skeptical that the automakers will work to develop a widespread, >well-planned network that matches the Tesla Supercharger network. In >the past, I’ve pushed automakers to simply partner with Tesla (Tesla >has welcomed the option with open arms), but there’s no sign they want >to cede the victory to Tesla on this matter, even if it means offering >their customers less-than-adequate products. >Of >course, as I wrote the other day, these automakers actually want the >transition to electric cars to happen slowly, so this comes as no big >surprise. > >Fastned and the free market to the rescue? The remaining option is that >outside companies will build the convenient, superfast charging >networks customers desire. This is a daunting task, as capital >expenditures for these high-power charging stations are not at all >small, and siting + permitting are also huge challenges. I know many >people think that there isn’t a strong financial business case for such >an effort. However, Fastned is in this game for the long haul, and it >is doing great work to help enable our electric future. From the blog: > >“Many Fastned stations are already prepared for 150 kW chargers. We >have grid connections that support charging four cars simultaneously at >150 kW. >Our other stations can easily be upgraded with a larger grid connection >as well. More capacity can be added in the future by introducing >on-site battery buffering and/or by further increasing the capacity of >the grid connections. The layout of our stations is already designed >for maximum throughput of cars.” > >Of course, timing is key here. As I said, these are huge investments. >You >don’t want to put the cash forward 3 years before it’s useful. Also, >you need the actual chargers to be available (I’m sure companies like >ABB are working on this, but I have no idea how far they are from >having a product on the market). On these matters, Fastned adds: > >“We expect to install the first 150 kW chargers at Fastned stations in >2017, depending on introductions of cars with 150 kW capability by the >car makers and the availability of these high powered chargers.” > >So, there’s Fastned, which is based in the Netherlands and expanding >into Germany and maybe other countries in Western Europe. But what >about the USA? >What I’ve heard so far on the matter is … crickets singing. > >The fast-charging networks for non-Tesla cars are already criticized >quite a lot for the charging stations not being placed in the most >convenient locations for long-distance travel (like, on dealership lots >far off of the Interstate that are locked up at night) and for pretty >bad reliability, meaning that you can’t be that sure a charging station >you go to use will actually be in service ... >[© 2016 Sustainable Enterprises Media] > > > > >For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: >http://evdl.org/evln/ > > >{brucedp.150m.com} > >-- >View this message in context: >http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-200mi >-EVs-make-L3-50kW-1hr-charging-too-slow-need-L3-150kW-20min-EVSE-tp4682 >684.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list >archive at Nabble.com. >_______________________________________________ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag >racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >_______________________________________________ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag >racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
