The context of these comments it the idea that stored electric power in
batteries can take over from fossil fuel energy; and that the capability in
batteries is "there." I don't believe it.

The construction at scale of batteries, and battery manufacturing
facilities is going to take a very long time.  For example, the mining
capacity for copper, cobalt, lithium, and so on DOES NOT EXIST to produce
the amount of Li-ion batteries.  The same can be said for any other
candidate materials.  Current capacity serves the current market. It can't
be any other way. If you want a bunch more, it will take a while; and when
demand outstrips supply cost goes way up.

Therefore, *batteries are not "there."*  Nor will they be there any time
soon.  *If you run the numbers,* instead of just wishing, it is unlikely
grid storage can be done at all with batteries alone.  It will require
other very significant storage tech. Even supplying cells for more than a
million cars is not currently possible. I happily own Tesla stock on the
thinking they have a leg up on supplying cells to the auto industry. But
there is no denying it:  the supply of batteries is meager.

Batteries are a fine solution for mobile applications, airliners, trucks,
cars, even boats. However, for enabling all renewable power on the grid,
batteries do not make sense.

It will take too many batteries.  Also they are not material efficient for
stationary applications - some other solutions are needed.

Pump storage is bad because there are limits to how much land we want to
flood.  Nuclear?  I don't like it though plenty of people do. I am hoping
in the long time frame that fusion gets worked out (then it may not be
necessary to have grid storage at all, though mobile storage might still be
useful). Lot of talk about compressed air, I tend not to believe that is
possible.  I think hydrogen could be useful.  Conversion efficiencies are
not good, but great big tanks underground are within the realm of
possibility. Some other chemical reaction might work, but I can't guess at


On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 3:26 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV <>

> You are missing the point.
> The batteries WILL be there in every EV on the planet.  And with just
> something like 75% penetration, the amount of energy in those batteries is
> something like 5 times the TOTAL grid capacity of the entire USA (or
> something like that).
> Ignoring the potential of that amount of storage is pretty foolish.  I'm
> just saying that engineers and economists will eventually see the light and
> the marriage of solar power and all that ALREADY invested battery storage
> will merge in magical ways.   Such as charging with excess solar and
> driving
> more at night in those jobs that can easily accommodate the shift.   Such
> as
> EV mail and package delivery... Bob, WB4APR
Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
19) 901-2805 Cell and Text
(919) 576-0824 <> Tablet,
Google Phone and Text

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