-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Stockton [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 1:36 AM
To: ptandjb Frontier <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [EVDL] Reposting, Still Need Help, 86 Year Old Uncle Still
Trying After 34 Years to Get Bucket List GE EV1-B Based EV Car Running
Paul,
- is the controller wired as shown in the diagram "EV1WireDiagram2pdf.pdf"?
Paul: This is a simply a copy of page 17 schematic of EV1.pdf downloaded
from FSIP from whom the controller was purchased August 1985. The goal was
to copy this schematic in wiring as best as possible, there is also a hand
drawn schematic at the site of the car, which reflects actual wiring which I
recall differs from this page 17 schematic in some ways detailed below from
my recollections.
I can see only 3 contactors in the pictures you've posted of the controller
panel; the two at left rear appear to be the F & R direction contactors; is
the one at front right the 1A bypass, or is it wired as a main contactor
(i.e. to interrupt the connection between battery positive and the P (power)
terminal on the controller?
Paul: My view of the photo is not clear, not that familiar with external
wiring to respond authoritatively until onsite again.
- Is the hour meter (HM) and associated circuitry shown in the diagram
present?
Paul: The hour meter in not part of the circuit at this time
- is the pump (SP) motor, contactor, and associated circuitry present?
Paul: the only motor is the main drive motors, unaware of SP motor, almost
certainly not present.
If the HM or SP are present, I would disconnect the control wiring for them
from the system to simplify things until you have the controller working,
then add them back one at a time if desired.
Paul: neither present
- what is the nominal battery voltage? 59V is high for a 48V pack (unless
on charge and fully charged), and low for most higher common pack voltages?
Paul: 59V
- is 59V within the operating range for the EV-1 model that you have?
Paul: Unit is EVIB PNL 48-84V FW GE from original FSIP invoice, so 48-84
volt operational range.
> Using the "General Electric EV-! B, C, D Panel Replacement parts Lists
> and Troubleshooting/Tune-Up Instructions" manual, I noted that with
> SEAT and BRAKE switches bypassed and KEY, FWD, and ACCEL switches
> appropriately set per 3rd bullet point in Symptom section 1B there is
> not BV at L4, L5, and L7, just minimal voltage. It appears but not
More likely, the seat switch was not actually bypassed; the left hand
terminals are inputs to the logic, and so should *receive* battery voltage
via the external wiring and switches. If the seat switch is receiving power
from the KEY SW, and is bypassed (shorted), then you will see battery
voltage at L4 and L7 (jumpered together at the terminal strip).
Paul: at this time neither the SEAT SW nor BRAKE SW are yet part of the
circuit. L3, L4, and L7 have been jumpered all along.
You won't see power at L5 until the ACCEL START SW closes, which [should]
require the throttle to be pressed slightly, and only after that will you
see power at L9 if/when the FWD switch closes.
Paul: As I recollect, we did manually engage the ACCEL START SW to no
effect. A good sign of progress being made and a necessary milestone will be
59V at newly jumpered L5 and L9 as described below.
To determine if there is an error in the logic (switch) wiring, I suggest
bypassing everything except the KEY SW:
Paul: Sounds like a good plan below, will plan to follow these steps on
the next trip to the EV car, after doing a simple retest allowing for STATIC
RETURN TO OFF requirement being satisfied, not thought about previously.
- disconnect all wires from the left hand terminal strip except for L3
Paul: OK, that just leaves FU3 (tested OK) and KEY SW in series with 59V
battery power. No power to EV1-B controller at this time.
- jumper together L3, L4, and L7
Paul: This would bypass SEAT SW, L4 and L7 have been wired together all
along.
- jumper together L5 and L9
Paul: This shorts L5 Accelerator Start and Brake switch input and L9
Direction switch input from positive side of "F" coil.
- disconnect all wires from the right hand terminal strip except for R3, R4,
and R5
Paul: this leaves R3 Output to PMT Driver, R4 Common return to card for
accelerator pot and 1A switch, R5 Accelerator pot input
This leaves the controller wired for forward operation, with the seat,
brake, and direction switches bypassed.
Paul: will either the STATIC RETURN TO OFF or PULSE MONITOR TRIP
requirements be an issue in this test process?
When you close KEY SW, you should have battery voltage at L3 (and L4 and L7
since they are all jumpered). After closing KEY SW, use a piece of wire to
temporarily jumper L4 to L5 (the jumper is acting as the ACCEL START SW and
connecting the group L3/L4/L7 to the group L5/L9).
Paul: I presume for safety care must be taken to maintain dielectric
isolation from temporary jumper wire that is to be touched between L4 and
L5to simulate activation of ACCEL START SW.
This should result in the forward (F) contactor closing.
- If SO: then try applying a bit of throttle and see if the controller
starts switching (ENSURE the vehicle drive wheels are elevated first!)
Paul: EV car tires are jacked off the ground
- if NOT: if most likely either battery voltage is not getting to the logic
board, or is outside of the controller operating range, or the controller is
failing the PMT power up test (i.e. failing to precharge the commutating
cap(s)).
- verify that battery voltage is in the operating range for your
controller model
- verify that you have battery voltage at the controller power stage
terminal 'P'
- verify that you have battery voltage at L3 when the KEY SW closes
(and that you don't when it is open)
- verify that you have continuity through the motor loop (from S1 or
S2 to N) with KEY SW open
- verify that you have continuity from controller T2 to one side of
the F contactor's NO terminals with KEY SW open
Paul: hopefully these tests would not be necessary, we can always hope.
I've read that the controller logic will briefly close the FWD contactor on
power up to allow the 1C capacitor to connect between P and N (looking at
the wiring diagram, one side of 1C is connected to P, the other connects to
T2 via 2REC, which the controller must also "close" for this test, and then
through either F or R contactor and the motor to N).
If wired as your diagram shows, it is possible that the controller cannot
close either of the direction contactors to perform this test because both
FWD and REV direction switches are shown as wired normally open (NO). Thus,
there is no positive voltage supply available to either F or R contactor
coil should the controller try to pull in a direction contactor by
energizing the PMTD (PMT driver) via the R3 terminal. Another EV-1 wiring
diagram I have shows the direction switch as a single device for both FWD
and REV so that one direction is always selected (e.g. REV wired using the
NC contacts and FWD using the NO contacts of a DPDT switch). This
arrangement would allow the controller to close one of F and R to provide a
path through the motor loop to N for the test current.
Paul: I cannot recall if this is how the switch is wired F and R may well
be be a 3-pole switch with neutral position.
I'm not positive that the controller does close F or R to perform this test
on powerup.
Paul: I don't think so either
It DOES need either F or R closed to do the test, but it might be that the
test is performed immediately after the F or R contactor is closed in
response to you closing either FWD or REV direction switch.
So, either way, we need to get to the point that the controller is closing
the F contactor.
Paul: Agreed
If the contactor is still not closing, and the previous test suggestions
check out, then it could be that the PMTD is defective or miswired. The
PMTD and 1AD are the same internally, so if the wiring looks correct you
could try replacing the PMTD with the 1AD to see if that helps.
Paul: not yet source of spare parts for EV1-B.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
Paul's additional comments for Roger and other EVDL posters:
FSIP was contacted today via their tech support chat. I was told they do not
provide parts for the EV-1B unit, only remanufacture, and could not provide
time and cost estimate for same without part numbers read from the physical
unit.
There is currently no brake switch in the circuits.
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