But these investers in big fast public chargers are not getting what they
think they are getting.  They are counting on a hundred thousand charging
station opportunities, (that’s the number of gas stations).  But just like
nobody goes to Washington DC to buy gas at $5/gallon except when despite,
EV's always can charge at home or at work 95% of the time.  SO the market
for big charging stations will not be as big as for gas stations.

If I know I can always charge at home, I will not twiddle my thumbs at a 20
minute FILLUP convenience store, but will only putin 5 minutes of charge to
get home and fill up there.

You cannot do that with gas, though I am amazed at the number of people that
only put $5 worth of gas in their cars.  (and spend half their driving time
going back to the station!)

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2019 12:14 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org>
Cc: Peri Hartman <pe...@kotatko.com>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil
buy-in

It's kind of disgusting but I think it's a good sign. Better to have them
come on board rather than fight. Further, even if the current startups in
the renewable energy business thrive and grow on their own, they probably
won't end up being altruistic when they become dominant players. Different
names on the doors, same mentality.
Peri

------ Original Message ------
From: "SLPinfo.org via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
Cc: "SLPinfo.org" <slpinfop...@gmail.com>
Sent: 17-Feb-19 8:47:58 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil
buy-in

>This is not unlike the tobacco companies buying up food companies back
>in the 1980s.  They're planning ahead for diversifing their business model.
>
>Peter Flipsen
>Carlton, Oregon
>
>On Sat, Feb 16, 2019, 11:25 PM brucedp5 via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://qz.com/1542499/oil-companies-and-utilities-are-buying-up-all-
>> the-electric-car-charging-startups/
>>  Oil companies and utilities are buying up all the electric car
>> charging  startups  February 5, 2019  Michael J. Coren
>>
>>  For decades, oil and gas companies and utilities dismissed electric
>> cars.
>>  Now, the old petroleum and power giants are muscling into the
>> driver’s seat  of the “new fuels” industry.
>>
>>  It’s projected to be a big business. McKinsey counts more than 350
>> new  electric vehicle (EV) models debuting by 2025, one of the
>> conditions for  mass-market adoption. Global demand for gasoline is
>> set to peak around 2021  thanks to electric vehicles (EVs) and fuel
>> efficiency gains. The energy  research and consultancy Wood Mackenzie
>> predicts  charging infrastructure  investment in the US will exceed
>> $18 billion annually by 2030 for  equipment,  installation,
>> operations, and services. China is expected to have three  times more
>> energy demand from EVs by then.
>>
>>  Now, fossil fuel incumbents want in. They’re investing heavily or
>> outright  acquiring electrical infrastructure needed to supply the
>> millions of  electric vehicles (EVs) expected in the next few years.
>> Although just 2.2%  of the world’s vehicles are electric, a record 2
>> million or so EVs were  sold  last year amid exponential growth.
>>
>>  While the numbers aren’t huge yet—for example, Shell’s $1 billion in
>> renewable energy and EV investments amounts amounts to just 4% of its
>> annual  capital expenditures—they’re growing fast. Globally, $334
>> billion was  invested in global clean energy in 2017, reports BNEF
>> (pdf)
>>
>>  Public charging infrastructure is ramping up almost everywhere, and
>> each  region has its own unique mix of players, says Bloomberg New
>> Energy Finance  (BNEF). In Europe, 79% of the public charging
>> infrastructure is operated by  utilities and oil companies. In the
>> US, 62% of the market is managed by  pure-play EV operators. In
>> China, equipment manufacturers control the  majority.
>>
>>  So far, European firms are making the biggest moves. The most recent
>> move  was Royal Dutch Shell’s purchase of Greenlots, a startup
>> offering software  and services for EV charging networks. The
>> British-Dutch oil giant says it  will use Greenlot’s technology,
>> which combines software to optimize battery  charging and grid
>> balancing services in one charging platform, to build the
>> “foundation” of its EV business in North America. The company is
>> pouring  about $1 billion a year into such deals, according to BNEF,
>> including the  acquisition of 30,000 charging stations in Western Europe,
>> as well as a $31  million investment into EV charging startup Ample in
>> 2018.
>>
>>  Last year, France’s Total closed a deal for G2mobility, which offers
>> EV  charging solutions, as well as a $1.7 billion deal for Direct
>> Energie,  making it a major electricity retailer in France as well.
>> Ultimately,  Reuters reports, Total wants to grow its “low-carbon
>> energy assets” from 5%  of the total today to 20% by 2035. Most of
>> Europe’s biggest oil firms now  have a hand in renewable energy,
>> power trading, energy storage, retail  electricity sales, grid
>> management, or EV charging.
>>
>>  “In Europe, the line between utilities and oil and gas companies is
>> getting  a bit blurry,” said Colin McKerracher of BNEF at its summit
>> in San  Francisco  on Feb. 4. “The oil and gas companies in Europe
>> see where this stuff is  going and want to ensure they are not
>> missing out on it. … It’s not just a  downside hedge.”
>>
>>  The US is a different story. Companies like Chevron and ExxonMobil
>> are just  starting to edge into utilities’ traditional territory.
>> Last year, Chevron  participated in a $240 million round for
>> ChargePoint, a network of  independently owned charging spots, valued
>> at $1.5 billion, according to  Pitchbook.  The utility American
>> Electric Power and German automaker  Daimler  invested alongside the
>> oil giant.
>>
>>  Most active are US utilities, with many partnering directly with car
>> companies. Pacific Gas and Electric, Southern California Edison, San
>> Diego  Gas & Electric, and New Jersey’s PSE&G have partnered with
>> carmakers to  offer thousands of dollars in rebates for BMW, Nissan, and
>> other brands.
>>  California’s Pacific Gas & Electric, New York’s Consolidated Edison,
>> the  southeast’s Duke Energy Company, and others covering almost
>> every state are  lobbying Congress to extend EV tax credits. Pacific
>> Gas and Electric is  busy  investing in thousands of fast-charging
>> stations around the state.
>>  [© qz.com]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-giants-competing-buy-battery-12142
>> 7788.html  Oil giants are competing to buy battery companies
>> February 15, 2019  Shell has also acquired Greenlots and New Motion,
>> electric-car charging companies in the US and Europe, respectively.
>> Sonnen  also says that it has developed its own technology for
>> electric-car  charging, which will now become part of Shell’s growing
>> portfolio in this  area ... It uses lithium-iron-phosphate batteries,
>> which are known to be  cheaper and longer lasting than the
>> nickel-cobalt-manganese b...
>>  ...
>>
>>
>> https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2019/02/shell-buys-sonn
>> en-batterie.html
>>  Shell buys sonnen batterie
>>  February 15, 2019  With the help of Shell, sonnen will accelerate
>> its  ability to offer innovative integrated energy services and
>> electric vehicle  ...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.cspdailynews.com/fuels/petro-canada-launching-coast-coast
>> -ev-charging-network
>>  Petro-Canada
>>
>> <https://www.cspdailynews.com/fuels/petro-canada-launching-coast-coas
>> t-ev-charging-networkPetro-Canada>
>>  Launching Coast-to-Coast EV-Charging Network  Feb 15, 2019  CALGARY,
>> Alberta -- Petro-Canada is building a coast-to-coast  network of
>> electric vehicle (EV) fast-charging stations across Canada. The
>> company announced ...
>>
>>
>> https://cdn.winsightmedia.com/platform/files/public/2019-02/backgroun
>> d/1800x945/petro-canada_1550260987.jpg?EoMeZ5FANDFPfplw86HazTLdoW1trd
>> 7A
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Greenlot
>> s-charge-paying-hell-Oil-acquired-another-EVSE-net-tp4692737.html
>>  Greenlots charge= paying $hell-Oil> acquired another EVSE.net  Shell
>> Acquires Greenlots to Lead North American EV Charging Push  Jan 31
>> 2019
>>
>>
>>  [dated]
>>
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-U-S
>> -Exxon-Mobil-EV-charging-network-Game-afoot-tp4674113.html
>>  EVLN: U.S. Exxon Mobil EV-charging-network Game afoot  ... electric
>> vehicles (EV) around the world. The energy giant is planning  to
>> build its own EV-charging network in the US and will start working on
>> the  project within six months, according to a person familiar with
>> the matter  who spoke with Bidness Etc. Exxon Mobil decided to enter
>> the EV market  as...
>>  Mar 07, 2015
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Shell-sh
>> ock-oil-company-embraces-EVs-with-Shell-Recharge-charging-tp4688308.h
>> tml  Shell shock> oil company embraces EVs with 'Shell Recharge'
>> charging  ... electric charging sphere. Currently, the oil company
>> has more than
>>  30,000 EV charge points in Europe ... Shell’s traditional looking “pump”
>>  EVSE> £0.49/kWh...
>>  Oct 22, 2017
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/BP-in-ta
>> lks-with-Electric-car-makers-on-partnering-to-offer-EVSE-their-statio
>> ns-tp4687590.html  BP in talks with Electric car makers on partnering
>> to offer EVSE @their  stations  ... New Delhi, India, June 15, 2017 /
>> Adnan Abidi LONDON (Reuters) - BP is  in talks with electric vehicle
>> makers on partnering to offer battery  re-charging docks at its
>> global network of fuel service stations as it  seeks  to benefit from
>> the move away from diesel and petrol cars, Chief Executive  Bob...
>>  Aug 07, 2017
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/BP-Fuel-
>> Cards-sez-EV-charging-a-logical-move-use-their-ice-card-to-charge-a-p
>> lugin-tp4686324.html  BP Fuel Cards sez EV-charging a 'logical move'>
>> (use their ice card to  charge a plugin?)  Apr 07, 2017 ... move and
>> it will happen within the next year or two.” BP,  which operates a
>> branded network of 1,300 sites, has already launched a  similar
>> scheme in the Netherlands after multiple fast-charging systems were
>> introduced at some of its service stations in 2011, as part of a
>> nationwide  trial. The...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>>   http://evdl.org/archive/
>>
>>
>>  {brucedp.neocities.org}
>>
>>  --
>>  Sent from:
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
>>  _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
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