I think that this analysis has been done many times, and the amount that you get is relatively small compared to the demand, AND the cost can be very high if you are including solar films for flat roof solar. And many roofs cannot use solar.
You also need to think about storage and transmission. And for those efficiency mavens who think it is the be-all, end-all (I’m not one, depending on what you are talking about), it’s pretty inefficient. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Dec 1, 2020, at 7:45 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > > What is true is there are plenty of roofs, particularly in southern > california, that could be producing more than ample electricity. Look at > this sat photo, which if you zoom out, you'll see that it's one of the > greener parts of LA: > > https://www.google.com/maps/place/Los+Angeles,+CA/@34.02302,-118.3071616,593m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x80c2c75ddc27da13:0xe22fdf6f254608f4!8m2!3d34.0522342!4d-118.2436849 > > I would guess that the land, including streets, is close to 50% covered by > roofs. I think, with current solar technology and some sort of storage, > that's more than ample for 100% of residential power with power left over for > tall buildings. No need for kilometers of solar farms. > > Peri > > > > << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "jim--- via EV" <[email protected]> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> > Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>; [email protected] > Sent: 01-Dec-20 7:29:27 AM > Subject: Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] EVs not greener than fossil-fuel vehicles? > >> >> Bill, you better check your math. It would take a lot more than "a few >> square kilometers of solar panels put up to supply the entire world’s energy >> needs". In very rough numbers, a square kilometer of fairly high conversion >> rate solar panels is about 250 MegaWatts for roughly a quarter of the day >> (varies a lot depending on location, and installation, and of course it's a >> curve, not a on for x hours followed by off for y hours). That is not >> enough to power downtown Los Angeles - and I'm not talking about the metro >> area, just downtown. >> >> 250 MW is one fairly small (by today's standards) power plant generating >> unit. >> >> >> Jim Walls >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Bill Woodcock via EV" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 07:06 >> To: "Peri Hartman" <[email protected]>, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" >> <[email protected]> >> Cc: "Bill Woodcock" <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] EVs not greener than fossil-fuel vehicles? >> >> >> >>>> On Dec 1, 2020, at 3:38 PM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Yes, you could give away Teslas ! >> >> >> Yes, more or less. Over a seven-or-eight-year period, every gasoline and >> diesel vehicle in the world could be replaced with electric at no cost, the >> entire petrochemical fuel infrastructure could be dismantled, and a few >> square kilometers of solar panels put up to supply the entire world’s energy >> needs, after which energy would no longer be a cost, and we could reclaim >> the many trillions of dollars that are being spent on petrochemical >> subsidies each year for actual productive uses. >> >> There are people who argue otherwise, but they’re fundamentally innumerate. >> And that’s really unfortunate. >> >> >>> ------ Original Message ------ >>> From: "Bill Woodcock via EV" <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected]; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" >>> <[email protected]> >>> Cc: "Bill Woodcock" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: 01-Dec-20 2:30:31 AM >>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] EVs not greener than fossil-fuel vehicles? >>> >>>> Last time I ran the numbers, every fuel vehicle in the world is being >>>> subsidized by more than USD 5000/year in governmental subsidies to the >>>> gasoline and diesel industries. >>>> >>>> There’s a huge amount that you could do with that money. >>>> >>>>> On Nov 30, 2020, at 11:32 PM, (-Phil-) via EV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Lawrence is right, Based on my research, just the Electrical energy used >>>>> ALONE for all the processes that culminate with a gallon of gasoline in >>>>> your tank can move an average EV at least 50 miles. Another surprising >>>>> fact: CA's largest industrial user of electricity is petroleum. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 9:09 AM Lawrence Rhodes >>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I would think that simply not using a liquid powered vehicle would have >>>>>>> these benefits and energy gains. Energy loss to: Survey, drill, pump, >>>>>>> transport, refine(this is a big one) distribute, pump again and then you >>>>>>> get the energy to use plus the added benefit of poisoning every one >>>>>>> breathing the atmosphere. The elimination of fossil fuels would free up >>>>>>> all >>>>>>> that energy to use in the electrical grid. So have no fear of running >>>>>>> out >>>>>>> of energy. There will be a reduction of energy use with every new >>>>>>> electric >>>>>>> vehicle. Don't get me started with product packaging and the use of >>>>>>> plastics. Lawrence Rhodes >>>>>>> _._,_._,_ >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> Groups.io Links: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You receive all messages sent to this group. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> View/Reply Online (#369) <https://groups.io/g/GGEVA/message/369> | Reply >>>>>>> To Group >>>>>>> <[email protected]?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5BGGEVA%5D%20EVs%20not%20greener%20than%20fossil-fuel%20vehicles%3F> >>>>>>> | Reply To Sender >>>>>>> <[email protected]?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5BGGEVA%5D%20EVs%20not%20greener%20than%20fossil-fuel%20vehicles%3F> >>>>>>> | Mute This Topic <https://groups.io/mt/78551826/2384446> | New Topic >>>>>>> <https://groups.io/g/GGEVA/post> >>>>>>> Your Subscription <https://groups.io/g/GGEVA/editsub/2384446> | Contact >>>>>>> Group Owner <[email protected]> | Unsubscribe >>>>>>> <https://groups.io/g/GGEVA/leave/4855485/1451429038/xyzzy> [ >>>>>>> [email protected]] >>>>>>> _._,_._,_ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>>>> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20201130/f15e9fc5/attachment.html> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html >>>>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -Bill >>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>>> Name: signature.asc >>>> Type: application/pgp-signature >>>> Size: 833 bytes >>>> Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP >>>> URL: >>>> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20201201/f21bfc7b/attachment.sig> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html >>>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html >>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> >> >> >> -Bill >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: signature.asc >> Type: application/pgp-signature >> Size: 833 bytes >> Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP >> URL: >> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20201201/3537d2db/attachment.sig> >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html >> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html >> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
