Current trends in solar point toward mini grids and localized storage points that connect all the rooftops in a neighborhood, or district, with a distributed, un-interrupted, on-demand, energy storage and transmission system. The key to efficiency is each cell, indeed the entire service area, is controlled by a microprocessor network that automatically optimizes load, storage, and discharge, and feeds the regional utility system as needed. The old days of a bunch of one off, independent solar panels, nailed up hither and there are long gone - or at least, on their way out.
Sent from my iPad > On Dec 1, 2020, at 8:28 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > > I think that this analysis has been done many times, and the amount that you > get is relatively small compared to the demand, AND the cost can be very high > if you are including solar films for flat roof solar. And many roofs cannot > use solar. > > You also need to think about storage and transmission. > > And for those efficiency mavens who think it is the be-all, end-all (I’m not > one, depending on what you are talking about), it’s pretty inefficient. > > - Mark > > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > >> On Dec 1, 2020, at 7:45 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> What is true is there are plenty of roofs, particularly in southern >> california, that could be producing more than ample electricity. Look at >> this sat photo, which if you zoom out, you'll see that it's one of the >> greener parts of LA: >> >> https://www.google.com/maps/place/Los+Angeles,+CA/@34.02302,-118.3071616,593m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x80c2c75ddc27da13:0xe22fdf6f254608f4!8m2!3d34.0522342!4d-118.2436849 >> >> I would guess that the land, including streets, is close to 50% covered by >> roofs. I think, with current solar technology and some sort of storage, >> that's more than ample for 100% of residential power with power left over >> for tall buildings. No need for kilometers of solar farms. >> >> Peri >> >> >> >> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> >> >> ------ Original Message ------ >> From: "jim--- via EV" <[email protected]> >> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> >> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>; [email protected] >> Sent: 01-Dec-20 7:29:27 AM >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] EVs not greener than fossil-fuel vehicles? >> >>> >>> Bill, you better check your math. It would take a lot more than "a few >>> square kilometers of solar panels put up to supply the entire world’s >>> energy needs". In very rough numbers, a square kilometer of fairly high >>> conversion rate solar panels is about 250 MegaWatts for roughly a quarter >>> of the day (varies a lot depending on location, and installation, and of >>> course it's a curve, not a on for x hours followed by off for y hours). >>> That is not enough to power downtown Los Angeles - and I'm not talking >>> about the metro area, just downtown. >>> >>> 250 MW is one fairly small (by today's standards) power plant generating >>> unit. >>> >>> >>> Jim Walls >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: "Bill Woodcock via EV" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 07:06 >>> To: "Peri Hartman" <[email protected]>, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" >>> <[email protected]> >>> Cc: "Bill Woodcock" <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] EVs not greener than fossil-fuel vehicles? >>> >>> >>> >>>>> On Dec 1, 2020, at 3:38 PM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Yes, you could give away Teslas ! >>> >>> >>> Yes, more or less. Over a seven-or-eight-year period, every gasoline and >>> diesel vehicle in the world could be replaced with electric at no cost, the >>> entire petrochemical fuel infrastructure could be dismantled, and a few >>> square kilometers of solar panels put up to supply the entire world’s >>> energy needs, after which energy would no longer be a cost, and we could >>> reclaim the many trillions of dollars that are being spent on petrochemical >>> subsidies each year for actual productive uses. >>> >>> There are people who argue otherwise, but they’re fundamentally innumerate. >>> And that’s really unfortunate. >>> >>> >>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>> From: "Bill Woodcock via EV" <[email protected]> >>>> To: [email protected]; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> Cc: "Bill Woodcock" <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: 01-Dec-20 2:30:31 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] EVs not greener than fossil-fuel vehicles? >>>> >>>>> Last time I ran the numbers, every fuel vehicle in the world is being >>>>> subsidized by more than USD 5000/year in governmental subsidies to the >>>>> gasoline and diesel industries. >>>>> >>>>> There’s a huge amount that you could do with that money. >>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 30, 2020, at 11:32 PM, (-Phil-) via EV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Lawrence is right, Based on my research, just the Electrical energy used >>>>>> ALONE for all the processes that culminate with a gallon of gasoline in >>>>>> your tank can move an average EV at least 50 miles. Another surprising >>>>>> fact: CA's largest industrial user of electricity is petroleum. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 9:09 AM Lawrence Rhodes >>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would think that simply not using a liquid powered vehicle would have >>>>>>>> these benefits and energy gains. Energy loss to: Survey, drill, pump, >>>>>>>> transport, refine(this is a big one) distribute, pump again and then >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> get the energy to use plus the added benefit of poisoning every one >>>>>>>> breathing the atmosphere. The elimination of fossil fuels would free >>>>>>>> up all >>>>>>>> that energy to use in the electrical grid. So have no fear of running >>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>> of energy. There will be a reduction of energy use with every new >>>>>>>> electric >>>>>>>> vehicle. Don't get me started with product packaging and the use of >>>>>>>> plastics. Lawrence Rhodes >>>>>>>> _._,_._,_ >>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>> Groups.io Links: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You receive all messages sent to this group. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> View/Reply Online (#369) <https://groups.io/g/GGEVA/message/369> | >>>>>>>> Reply >>>>>>>> To Group >>>>>>>> <[email protected]?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5BGGEVA%5D%20EVs%20not%20greener%20than%20fossil-fuel%20vehicles%3F> >>>>>>>> | Reply To Sender >>>>>>>> <[email protected]?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5BGGEVA%5D%20EVs%20not%20greener%20than%20fossil-fuel%20vehicles%3F> >>>>>>>> | Mute This Topic <https://groups.io/mt/78551826/2384446> | New Topic >>>>>>>> <https://groups.io/g/GGEVA/post> >>>>>>>> Your Subscription <https://groups.io/g/GGEVA/editsub/2384446> | Contact >>>>>>>> Group Owner <[email protected]> | Unsubscribe >>>>>>>> <https://groups.io/g/GGEVA/leave/4855485/1451429038/xyzzy> [ >>>>>>>> [email protected]] >>>>>>>> _._,_._,_ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>>>> URL: >>>>>> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20201130/f15e9fc5/attachment.html> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>>>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html >>>>>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -Bill >>>>> >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>>>> Name: signature.asc >>>>> Type: application/pgp-signature >>>>> Size: 833 bytes >>>>> Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP >>>>> URL: >>>>> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20201201/f21bfc7b/attachment.sig> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html >>>>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html >>>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>>> >>> >>> >>> -Bill >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>> Name: signature.asc >>> Type: application/pgp-signature >>> Size: 833 bytes >>> Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP >>> URL: >>> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20201201/3537d2db/attachment.sig> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html >>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html >>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html >> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
