Technically, you're right, Paul. That is the primary point I made a
while back and then asked the question: how long would it take for you
to respond if the FSD drops out ? Someone mentioned that, at least, if
gives an audible warning, so I'm assuming that "dropping out" is easy to
notice. But someone else pointed out that if nothing goes wrong for a
long time, it's hard or impossible to keep a high level of alertness. In
other words, you need stimulation to keep alert.
So, even if Tesla says you must be instantly ready to regain control, is
that a realistic position ? I think I have solidly convinced myself that
it is not realistic. Tesla absolutely must modify FSD in some way to
ensure the driver is alert. I'm not sure how that might work, but here
are a few simple (and possibly stupid) ideas.
- vibrate the steering wheel from time to time
- intentionally veer out of the lane from time to time (only while safe)
- intentionally have FSD drop out from time to time and require a simple
action to reengage
- show a blank screen on the console (maybe this would be more
distracting than helpful)
-------------
Another point I want to bring up. There's been discussion about having
redundant systems. While that's a good idea, I don't think it addresses
the problem at hand. FSD didn't mechanically or electrically fail. The
software failed. Having software that goes into "I give up" mode is not
acceptable.
The software needs to try to make the best decision it can. Always. If
they have redundant systems and one system "gives up," even with
software trained by different data and produced by different development
teams, you don't really have good redundancy. If both try rather than
give up, then, at least, you have two solutions at every moment to
compare.
Peri
<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
------ Original Message ------
From: "paul dove via EV" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Cc: "paul dove" <[email protected]>
Sent: 08-Feb-22 05:10:41
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Request Tesla crash data
When and where did Tesla say you can let the car drive and play with your radio?
They say stay alert and keep your hands on the wheel. Sorry it is still people
who don’t obey that is the issue here.
Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Tuesday, February 8, 2022, 5:22 AM, Peter Eckhoff via EV <[email protected]>
wrote:
All these stories remind me of the one where there was a road with a
sharp left turn. One foggy night, some kid ran the yellow line at the
apex of the "L" straight up the proverbial oak tree. In the morning,
he came back and found he got a car. Someone was following the yellow
line right up and into that tree.
That story has me thinking that Tesla, Waymo, etc. are needing to pass
a Pankster Obstacle Situation (POS) test in order to be certified as
anywhere near Level 5.
At a T-intersection, Tesla missed a Stop sign?? Why did it not
recognize that it was at a Stop signable intersection and come to a
complete (okay "the coast is clear" rolling) stop? What would happen
if a drunk took out the sign the day before and it had not been
replaced? What happens if a kid places a garbage bag over the stop
sign in an impromptu POS test?
In an interview between Sandy Munro and Elon Musk, Musk was saying
that road line painting was not standardized and Tesla was having a
hard time navigating through road construction areas. Here you have
an area where people are working and are expecting to go home at
shift's end instead of to a hospital or morgue. Okayyy, Tesla is
working on it.
Last night, I put my Tesla Model Y into Autopilot a little before a
construction area. It was a slow drizzle/rainy night. Autopilot lost
it and I had to take control. I'm grateful that no one was beside me
and it didn't go the other direction and into a Jersey Barrier.
Autopilot had grabbed the "wrong lines"?
The more questions I ask of FSD and its kin, the more I am convinced
that the sensors should be beefing up the driver's skills and alerting
them to possible bad situations instead of trying to play God with
your safety and mine.
I think we have to ask questions of any FSD system. FSD is not an
airliner being able to fly autonomously between point A and B in a
well controlled airspace or SpaceX nailing a landing on a barge
somewhere out in the middle of the Atlantic. We are dealing with
situations where people, cars, and environmental factors interact in a
myriad of ways every second of the day. You don't have a kid kicking
a ball out onto a runaway or a commuter/pedestrian with "get
home-itis" in the middle of the Atlantic. When was the last time a
deer crossed the path of a SpaceX rocket?
I think it is past time to rethink about obtaining Level 5 and
concentrate on beefing up driver awareness of potential problems and
letting the computer between our ears try and handle these situations.
We are far better in reading the intentions of other drivers and
pedestrians than any FSD package that may have a problem recognizing
and then displaying the silhouette of a pedestrian.
Peter Eckhoff
PS I love my Model Y and I am not going to sell it. She's like a
beloved girl friend with a few bad habits.
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