Still, not a software issue.
Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Tuesday, February 8, 2022, 2:06 PM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> wrote: That doesn't ensure you are attentive. It only ensures you have your hands on the wheel. I think everyone knows the difference. << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> ------ Original Message ------ From: "paul dove" <[email protected]> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>; "Peri Hartman" <[email protected]> Sent: 08-Feb-22 12:00:55 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Request Tesla crash data >When Autosteer is in use, it measures the amount of torque that you >apply to the steering wheel and, if insufficient torque is applied, an >escalating series of audible and visual alerts again reminds you to >place your hands on the wheel. This helps ensure you are attentive and >trains good driving habits. If you repeatedly ignore these warnings, >then you will be locked out from using Autopilot for the duration of >that trip. > >FSD has other features that use autopilot such as navigate but it still >has the above functions. > >https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot > > > >On Tuesday, February 8, 2022, 09:08:07 AM CST, Peri Hartman via EV ><[email protected]> wrote: > > >Technically, you're right, Paul. That is the primary point I made a >while back and then asked the question: how long would it take for you >to respond if the FSD drops out ? Someone mentioned that, at least, if >gives an audible warning, so I'm assuming that "dropping out" is easy >to >notice. But someone else pointed out that if nothing goes wrong for a >long time, it's hard or impossible to keep a high level of alertness. >In >other words, you need stimulation to keep alert. > >So, even if Tesla says you must be instantly ready to regain control, >is >that a realistic position ? I think I have solidly convinced myself >that >it is not realistic. Tesla absolutely must modify FSD in some way to >ensure the driver is alert. I'm not sure how that might work, but here >are a few simple (and possibly stupid) ideas. > >- vibrate the steering wheel from time to time >- intentionally veer out of the lane from time to time (only while >safe) >- intentionally have FSD drop out from time to time and require a >simple >action to reengage >- show a blank screen on the console (maybe this would be more >distracting than helpful) > >------------- > >Another point I want to bring up. There's been discussion about having >redundant systems. While that's a good idea, I don't think it addresses >the problem at hand. FSD didn't mechanically or electrically fail. The >software failed. Having software that goes into "I give up" mode is not >acceptable. > >The software needs to try to make the best decision it can. Always. If >they have redundant systems and one system "gives up," even with >software trained by different data and produced by different >development >teams, you don't really have good redundancy. If both try rather than >give up, then, at least, you have two solutions at every moment to >compare. > >Peri > ><< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> > >------ Original Message ------ >From: "paul dove via EV" <[email protected]> >To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> >Cc: "paul dove" <[email protected]> >Sent: 08-Feb-22 05:10:41 >Subject: Re: [EVDL] Request Tesla crash data > > >When and where did Tesla say you can let the car drive and play with >your radio? > >They say stay alert and keep your hands on the wheel. Sorry it is >still people who don’t obey that is the issue here. > > > > > >Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > > > >On Tuesday, February 8, 2022, 5:22 AM, Peter Eckhoff via EV ><[email protected]> wrote: > > > >All these stories remind me of the one where there was a road with a > >sharp left turn. One foggy night, some kid ran the yellow line at the > >apex of the "L" straight up the proverbial oak tree. In the morning, > >he came back and found he got a car. Someone was following the yellow > >line right up and into that tree. > > > >That story has me thinking that Tesla, Waymo, etc. are needing to pass > >a Pankster Obstacle Situation (POS) test in order to be certified as > >anywhere near Level 5. > > > >At a T-intersection, Tesla missed a Stop sign?? Why did it not > >recognize that it was at a Stop signable intersection and come to a > >complete (okay "the coast is clear" rolling) stop? What would happen > >if a drunk took out the sign the day before and it had not been > >replaced? What happens if a kid places a garbage bag over the stop > >sign in an impromptu POS test? > > > >In an interview between Sandy Munro and Elon Musk, Musk was saying > >that road line painting was not standardized and Tesla was having a > >hard time navigating through road construction areas. Here you have > >an area where people are working and are expecting to go home at > >shift's end instead of to a hospital or morgue. Okayyy, Tesla is > >working on it. > > > >Last night, I put my Tesla Model Y into Autopilot a little before a > >construction area. It was a slow drizzle/rainy night. Autopilot lost > >it and I had to take control. I'm grateful that no one was beside me > >and it didn't go the other direction and into a Jersey Barrier. > >Autopilot had grabbed the "wrong lines"? > > > >The more questions I ask of FSD and its kin, the more I am convinced > >that the sensors should be beefing up the driver's skills and alerting > >them to possible bad situations instead of trying to play God with > >your safety and mine. > > > >I think we have to ask questions of any FSD system. FSD is not an > >airliner being able to fly autonomously between point A and B in a > >well controlled airspace or SpaceX nailing a landing on a barge > >somewhere out in the middle of the Atlantic. We are dealing with > >situations where people, cars, and environmental factors interact in a > >myriad of ways every second of the day. You don't have a kid kicking > >a ball out onto a runaway or a commuter/pedestrian with "get > >home-itis" in the middle of the Atlantic. When was the last time a > >deer crossed the path of a SpaceX rocket? > > > >I think it is past time to rethink about obtaining Level 5 and > >concentrate on beefing up driver awareness of potential problems and > >letting the computer between our ears try and handle these situations. > >We are far better in reading the intentions of other drivers and > >pedestrians than any FSD package that may have a problem recognizing > >and then displaying the silhouette of a pedestrian. > > > >Peter Eckhoff > > > >PS I love my Model Y and I am not going to sell it. She's like a > >beloved girl friend with a few bad habits. > >_______________________________________________ > >Address messages to [email protected] > >No other addresses in TO and CC fields > >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > >LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > > > > > > >-------------- next part -------------- > >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >URL: ><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20220208/bac92170/attachment.html> > > >_______________________________________________ > >Address messages to [email protected] > >No other addresses in TO and CC fields > >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > >LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >_______________________________________________ >Address messages to [email protected] >No other addresses in TO and CC fields >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ >LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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