That doesn't ensure you are attentive. It only ensures you have your
hands on the wheel. I think everyone knows the difference.
<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
------ Original Message ------
From: "paul dove" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>; "Peri
Hartman" <[email protected]>
Sent: 08-Feb-22 12:00:55
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Request Tesla crash data
When Autosteer is in use, it measures the amount of torque that you
apply to the steering wheel and, if insufficient torque is applied, an
escalating series of audible and visual alerts again reminds you to
place your hands on the wheel. This helps ensure you are attentive and
trains good driving habits. If you repeatedly ignore these warnings,
then you will be locked out from using Autopilot for the duration of
that trip.
FSD has other features that use autopilot such as navigate but it still
has the above functions.
https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot
On Tuesday, February 8, 2022, 09:08:07 AM CST, Peri Hartman via EV
<[email protected]> wrote:
Technically, you're right, Paul. That is the primary point I made a
while back and then asked the question: how long would it take for you
to respond if the FSD drops out ? Someone mentioned that, at least, if
gives an audible warning, so I'm assuming that "dropping out" is easy
to
notice. But someone else pointed out that if nothing goes wrong for a
long time, it's hard or impossible to keep a high level of alertness.
In
other words, you need stimulation to keep alert.
So, even if Tesla says you must be instantly ready to regain control,
is
that a realistic position ? I think I have solidly convinced myself
that
it is not realistic. Tesla absolutely must modify FSD in some way to
ensure the driver is alert. I'm not sure how that might work, but here
are a few simple (and possibly stupid) ideas.
- vibrate the steering wheel from time to time
- intentionally veer out of the lane from time to time (only while
safe)
- intentionally have FSD drop out from time to time and require a
simple
action to reengage
- show a blank screen on the console (maybe this would be more
distracting than helpful)
-------------
Another point I want to bring up. There's been discussion about having
redundant systems. While that's a good idea, I don't think it addresses
the problem at hand. FSD didn't mechanically or electrically fail. The
software failed. Having software that goes into "I give up" mode is not
acceptable.
The software needs to try to make the best decision it can. Always. If
they have redundant systems and one system "gives up," even with
software trained by different data and produced by different
development
teams, you don't really have good redundancy. If both try rather than
give up, then, at least, you have two solutions at every moment to
compare.
Peri
<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
------ Original Message ------
From: "paul dove via EV" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Cc: "paul dove" <[email protected]>
Sent: 08-Feb-22 05:10:41
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Request Tesla crash data
>When and where did Tesla say you can let the car drive and play with
your radio?
>They say stay alert and keep your hands on the wheel. Sorry it is
still people who don’t obey that is the issue here.
>
>
>Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
>On Tuesday, February 8, 2022, 5:22 AM, Peter Eckhoff via EV
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>All these stories remind me of the one where there was a road with a
>sharp left turn. One foggy night, some kid ran the yellow line at the
>apex of the "L" straight up the proverbial oak tree. In the morning,
>he came back and found he got a car. Someone was following the yellow
>line right up and into that tree.
>
>That story has me thinking that Tesla, Waymo, etc. are needing to pass
>a Pankster Obstacle Situation (POS) test in order to be certified as
>anywhere near Level 5.
>
>At a T-intersection, Tesla missed a Stop sign?? Why did it not
>recognize that it was at a Stop signable intersection and come to a
>complete (okay "the coast is clear" rolling) stop? What would happen
>if a drunk took out the sign the day before and it had not been
>replaced? What happens if a kid places a garbage bag over the stop
>sign in an impromptu POS test?
>
>In an interview between Sandy Munro and Elon Musk, Musk was saying
>that road line painting was not standardized and Tesla was having a
>hard time navigating through road construction areas. Here you have
>an area where people are working and are expecting to go home at
>shift's end instead of to a hospital or morgue. Okayyy, Tesla is
>working on it.
>
>Last night, I put my Tesla Model Y into Autopilot a little before a
>construction area. It was a slow drizzle/rainy night. Autopilot lost
>it and I had to take control. I'm grateful that no one was beside me
>and it didn't go the other direction and into a Jersey Barrier.
>Autopilot had grabbed the "wrong lines"?
>
>The more questions I ask of FSD and its kin, the more I am convinced
>that the sensors should be beefing up the driver's skills and alerting
>them to possible bad situations instead of trying to play God with
>your safety and mine.
>
>I think we have to ask questions of any FSD system. FSD is not an
>airliner being able to fly autonomously between point A and B in a
>well controlled airspace or SpaceX nailing a landing on a barge
>somewhere out in the middle of the Atlantic. We are dealing with
>situations where people, cars, and environmental factors interact in a
>myriad of ways every second of the day. You don't have a kid kicking
>a ball out onto a runaway or a commuter/pedestrian with "get
>home-itis" in the middle of the Atlantic. When was the last time a
>deer crossed the path of a SpaceX rocket?
>
>I think it is past time to rethink about obtaining Level 5 and
>concentrate on beefing up driver awareness of potential problems and
>letting the computer between our ears try and handle these situations.
>We are far better in reading the intentions of other drivers and
>pedestrians than any FSD package that may have a problem recognizing
>and then displaying the silhouette of a pedestrian.
>
>Peter Eckhoff
>
>PS I love my Model Y and I am not going to sell it. She's like a
>beloved girl friend with a few bad habits.
>_______________________________________________
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