Colin Hales wrote:

> Perhaps the 3rd person is best called 'virtual'. It's role is one for
> 'as-if' it existed.

Yes, that's a reasonable suggestion. Then 3rd person might be reserved
for the type of observation in George's examples. The 'shareable
knowledge base' is then an aspect of 'personal virtual reality', and
those elements held in common by a community of 1st persons (common
frame of reference) constitute 'consensual virtual reality'.

David

> David Nyman:
> > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:20 AM
> > To: Everything List
> > Subject: Re: Are First Person prime?
> >
> >
> > George Levy wrote:
> >
> > > Colin Hales remarks seem to agree with what I say. However, I do not
> > > deny the existence of a third person perspective. I only say that it is
> > > secondary and an illusion brought about by having several observers
> > > share the same frame of reference. This frame of reference consists of
> > > identical contingencies on their existence.
> >
> > I'm glad you find agreement here.  I don't think any of us deny the
> > existence of a third person perspective.  All three of us, I think,
> > agree that it is secondary, but where your 'third person' comes into
> > being through the sharing of a frame of reference, I'm applying the
> > term to the totality of 'frames of reference', whether shared or not.
> > Your 'shared frame of reference' would seem to be achieved through my
> > 'shareable knowledge base', but for me a frame of reference is always
> > third person from one perspective or many. So I'm saying that third
> > person is an illusion brought about simply in virtue of having a 'frame
> > of reference' at all - the illusion inherent in representing the world.
> > I'm not quite sure what to do about this inconsistency of terminology.
> > Perhaps the 'shared illusion' could be 'objectivity'?
> >
>
> Perhaps the 3rd person is best called 'virtual'. It's role is one for
> 'as-if' it existed.
> 
> Colin Hales


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