Peter:
There is a clash of concepts - as I feel.
I do not 'read' what "physical" has to do in the fact
of 'determinism': if determinism is not (deemed) as
'physical', it does not determin? 
Laws (physical?) do not determin anything. Explain:
yes or oppose to. The deductions of the majority of
the observed cases (=laws, predictions) do not "act".
Furthermore:
If something is (or seems) impossible (= does not
occur) then the possibility of a mathematical
formulation of it does not make it realizable. Of
course we see the difference between mental simulation
and observation (who knows "the truth"?) but to keep
George's (nonexistent-haha) sanity - we may as well
differentiate between what we think as observed and
what we deduce upon a theory. 
Your last par is absolutely true - I think in the
opposite sense from why you wrote it. As history shows
we may detect any 'new rules' (laws) any time to come.
(Even if it is not written in the 17-19c physix
bible.)

I concur fully with Stathis's remark - adding that we
have no acces to the other universes at this ppoint,
but as we 'think' about them (mentally created them)
-they may be similarly deterministic as ours. I mean:
(in my view of a Multiverse), consisting of unlimited
and unlimitedly different universes. We just cannot
think otherwise. (Maybe some of us can on this list).

John Mikes

John M

--- 1Z <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> 
> Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
> > John  Mikes writes:
> >
> > > Peter:
> > > "... A counterfactual is a COUNTERfactual - -it
> is
> > > something that could have happenned but didn't.
> There is no
> > > reason why we should be conscious of in things
> > > we coudl have done but didn't. ..."
> > >
> > > JM:
> > > It could not have happened in another way if it
> did happen THIS way.. WE may
> > > think - in our limited circle of knowledge -
> that something else was also
> > > viable, but in the deterministic world of  a
> total (unlimited, not
> > > model-enclosed) interconnectedness - whatever
> happened, was "the" possible
> > > way of events.
> > > I am not talking about HP universes or thought
> experiments.
> >
> > Yes: the mere fact that we *think* it could have
> happened differently does not
> > mean that it could have happened differently.
> 
> Counterfactuals come from physical determinism, they
> are not contrary to it. Causal determism mean there
> are
> physical laws determining events which can be
> modelled
> by mathematival statements. The mathermatical
> formulation of physical laws allows you to answer
> hypothetical questions even if the actual situation
> cannot
> be phsyically realised for some practical reason.
> 
> 
> If the actual situation cannot
> be physically realised for some practical reason,
> there is a sense in which it is impossible --
> but it is not the same sense of impossible
> as something which is forbidden by physical
> laws.
> 
> 
> 
> >  It could be that there is just a single
> > deterministic universe and we are just playing out
> our lives like actors in a film. God
> > knows exactly how I'm going to finish this
> sentence, even if I don't until after the fact.
> >
> > Stathis Papaioannou
> >
> 

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