Le Wednesday 30 Août 2006 21:26, 1Z a écrit :
> Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
> > Peter Jones writes:
> > > > > > Saying that there is a material substrate which has certain
> > > > > > properties is just a working assumption to facilitate thinking
> > > > > > about the real world. It may turn out that if we dig into quarks
> > > > > > very deeply there is nothing "substantial" there at all, but
> > > > > > solid matter will still be solid matter, because it is defined by
> > > > > > its properties, not by some mysterious raw physical substrate.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not using the Bare Substrate to explian "solidity", which is
> > > > > as you say
> > > > > a matter of properties/behaviour.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am using it to explain contingent existence, and (A series) time.
> > > >
> > > > We could say that matter is that which feels solid, reflects light,
> > > > distorts spacetime etc. and leave it at that.
> > >
> > > However, that is mere behaviour. I need a defiition
> > > which digs deeper than behaviour,and I have one.
> > All I see is mere behaviour.
> All you see is phenomena in your own mimd, says the solipsist..
"There is no other solipsist than me" he would say... As the solipsist is the
only real... but it is a disgression and as usual you answer by question or
opinion which are not yours.
> >When I say that something is as real as this desk in front of me, I am
> > saying that it is as real as the mere mere behaviour in front of me
> How do you know it is really in front of you ?
This is still a language babeling... define real (for you) then we can
discuss... But I'll try to do it for you.
What is real is what is material. Materiality define what is real... Don't
forget to byte the snake.
> > - as opposed to the desk in my
> > dreams, which lacks such behaviour. Do you think we really disagree about
> > desks? If it looks like a desk, feels like a desk etc., then it's a desk.
> > It doesn't add anything to say that it also contains "essence of real
> > desk" to distinguish it from dream desks, because dream desks differ from
> > real desks in other ways.
> Well, what is the difference ? How do you escape solipsism without
> embracing materialism ?
How do you escape the circle without leaving materialism ?
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