They're completely blind, walking into things and falling over. They insist
that they see things and they confabulate, claiming that they see tables and
chairs if they believe they are in a dining room, that they can see the face
of someone they know when they are talking to them, and so on. It is an
example of anosognosia, the condition where someone has a disease or
disability and does not recognise it. The term is not usually used in
psychiatric illness, when we usually talk of "lack of insight", but it is
the same sort of thing.

Stathis Papaioannou

On 2/21/07, Brent Meeker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 2/20/07, *Jesse Mazer* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >      >I would bet on functionalism as the correct theory of mind for
> various
> >      >reasons, but I don't see that there is anything illogical the
> >     possibility
> >      >that consciousness is substrate-dependent. Let's say that when you
> >     rub two
> >      >carbon atoms together they have a scratchy experience, whereas
> >     when you rub
> >      >two silicon atoms together they have a squirmy experience. This
> >     could just
> >      >be a mundane fact about the universe, no more mysterious than any
> >     other
> >      >basic physical fact.  What is illogical, however, is the "no
> >     causal effect"
> >      >criterion if this is called epiphenomenalism. If the effect is
> >     purely and
> >      >necessarily on first person experience, it's no less an effect; we
> >     might
> >      >not
> >      >notice if the carbon atoms were zombified, but the carbon atoms
> would
> >      >certainly notice. I think it all comes down to the deep-seated and
> >     very
> >      >obviously wrong idea that only third person empirical data is
> genuine
> >      >empirical data. It is a legitimate concern of science that data
> >     should be
> >      >verifiable and experiments repeatable, but it's taking it a bit
> far to
> >      >conclude from this that we are therefore all zombies.
> >      >
> >      >Stathis Papaioannou
> >
> >     One major argument against the idea that qualia and/or consciousness
> >     could
> >     be substrate-dependent is what philosopher David Chalmers refers to
> >     as the
> >     "dancing qualia" and "fading qualia" arguments, which you can read
> more
> >     about at http://consc.net/papers/qualia.html . As a
> thought-experiment,
> >     imagine gradually replacing neurons in my brain with functionally
> >     identical
> >     devices whose physical construction was quite different from neurons
> >     (silicon chips emulating the input and output of the neurons they
> >     replaced,
> >     perhaps). If one believes that this substrate is associated with
> either
> >     different qualia or absent qualia, then as one gradually replaces
> >     more and
> >     more of my brain, they'll either have to be a sudden discontinuous
> >     change
> >     (and it seems implausible that the replacement of a single neuron
> would
> >     cause such a radical change) or else a gradual shift or fade-out of
> the
> >     qualia my brain experiences...but if I were noticing such a shift or
> >     fade-out, I would expect to be able to comment on it, and yet the
> >     assumption
> >     that the new parts are functionally identical means my behavior
> >     should be
> >     indistinguishable from what it would be if my neurons were left
> >     alone. And
> >     if we suppose that I might be having panicked thoughts about a
> >     change in my
> >     perceptions yet find that my voice and body are acting as if nothing
> is
> >     wrong, and there is no neural activity associated with these
> panicked
> >     thoughts, then there would have to be a radical disconnect between
> >     subjective experiences and physical activity in my brain, which
> would
> >     contradict the assumption of supervenience (see
> >     http://philosophy.uwaterloo.ca/MindDict/supervenience.html ) and
> >     lead to the
> >     possibility of radical mind/body disconnects like rocks and trees
> >     having
> >     complex thoughts and experiences that have nothing to do with any
> >     physical
> >     activity within them.
> >
> >     Jesse
> >
> >
> >  It's a persuasive argument, but I can think of a mechanism whereby your
> > qualia can fade away and you wouldn't notice. In some cases of cortical
> > blindness, in which the visual cortex is damaged but the rest of the
> > visual pathways intact, patients insist that they are not blind and come
> > up with explanations as to why they fall over and walk into things, eg.
> > they accuse people of putting obstacles in their way while their back is
> > turned. This isn't just denial because it is specific to cortical
> > lesions, not blindness due to other reasons. If these patients had
> > advanced cyborg implants they could presumably convince the world, and
> > be convinced themselves, that their visual perception had not suffered
> > when in fact they can't see a thing. Perhaps gradual cyborgisation of
> > the brain as per Hans Moravec would lead to a similar, gradual fading of
> > thoughts and perceptions; the external observer would not notice any
> > change and the subject would not notice any change either, until he was
> > dead, replaced by a zombie.
> >
> > Stathis Papaioannou
>
> An interesting example.  Are these people completely blind?  Do they
> describe seeing things?
>
> Brent Meeker
>
> >
>

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Reply via email to