marc.geddes wrote: > > On Aug 31, 4:19 am, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > >> On 30 Aug 2009, at 10:12, marc.geddes wrote: >> > > > > >> But look at this. I decide to do the following experience. I prepare >> an electron so that it is in state up+down. I measure it in the base >> {up, down}, and I decide to take holiday in the North if I find it up, >> and to the south, if I find it down. >> Not only that. I decide to go, after the holiday, to the amnesia >> center where all my memories, from the state of the electron to >> everything which follows, except my feeling about how much I enjoy the >> holliday. And I am asked to answer by yes or no to the question "did >> you enjoy your holiday. Then, thanks to the amnesia my yes+no states >> will be used In this way. I interfere with myself, and what will >> follow in the new branch where I have fuse with myself, my, and your, >> future is determined by my contentment qualia, in the two branches of >> the waves. >> > > This assumes that qualia are completely determined by the wave > function, which (since Bohm is non-reductionist) I'm sure he'd > dispute. The wave function only predicts physical states, it does not > neccesserily completely determine higher-level properties such qualia > (although of course qualia depends on low-level physics). If the wave > function DID completely determine the qualia, your example would > indeed contradict Bohm - but Bohm already admits he's non- > reductionist. > > > >> In Everett universal wave (or Heisenberg universal matrix) and already >> in arithmetic, "physicalness" is an indexical, we don't need the >> notion of reality, just relative self-consistency. >> We can cease to reify matter, and this is nice because I think that >> this is what stuck us on the mind-body problem so long. >> >> >>> reality has two levels, so really there's >>> two different definitions of 'real' in Bohm. >>> >> You say so. >> >> >>> There are no 'people' in >>> the wave, its a more abstrast entity than ordinary concrete reality. >>> >> Ordinary concrete reality is a projection of the ordinary universal >> machine from an infinity of them, to sum up roughly UDA conclusion. >> >> A deep weakness of Bohm, is that we can do all the possible uses of QM >> from the SWE only, and then we have to solve a complex potential >> equation to just "eliminate" the possibility of life and consciousness >> in the parallel world? >> And this by assuming weird things like non-locality (the root of Bohm >> "non reductionism, I think), and non comp (or is this the root of "non >> reductionism". >> > > A weakness of MWI is that it does not describe the reality we actually > see - additional steps are needed to convert wave function to human > observables - Bohm makes this clear, MWI just disguises it. Even in > MWI, additional unexpected steps (Born probabilities derivation etc) > are needed to convert wave function to what we actually observe. But in Bohmian QM the guide-potential just determines where a particle goes. So all but one of the possible paths are empty, which one is realized is just slipping the problem in the back door.

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