m.a. wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Flammarion" <peterdjo...@yahoo.com>
> To: "Everything List" <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Yablo, Quine and Carnap on ontology
>
>
>
>
>
> On 17 Sep, 14:12, "m.a." <marty...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>   
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Flammarion" <peterdjo...@yahoo.com>
>> To: "Everything List" <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:17 AM
>> Subject: Re: Yablo, Quine and Carnap on ontology
>>
>>     
>>> On 16 Sep, 21:42, "m.a." <marty...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>       
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Flammarion" <peterdjo...@yahoo.com>
>>>> To: "Everything List" <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:25 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: Yablo, Quine and Carnap on ontology
>>>>         
>>>>> On 16 Sep, 15:51, "m.a." <marty...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>           
>>>>>> the ocean of virtual particles which may give
>>>>>> rise to all "real" particles exists somewhere between matter and
>>>>>> thought.
>>>>>>             
>>>>> I see no reason to believe that.
>>>>>           
>>>> I would be most interested in your view of vacuum fluctuations of 
>>>> virtual
>>>> particles.
>>>>         
>>> Why would they differ from what he WP article says?
>>>       
>> Brent Meeker's interpretation of the WP article seems to agree with my
>> description.
>>     
>
>
> that virtual particles might not exist, does not establish that
> there is some immaterial thing that does exist.
>
> If they don't exist, how can they produce real particles? 

Who said virtual particles produce real particles.  They are 
computational terms in perturbation expansions.  Whether vacuum 
fluctuations exist is less clear, but all theories point to the total 
energy of the universe being zero, the positive energy of matter being 
just balanced by the negative potential energy of gravity - which would 
imply that particles and the rest of the universe can come out of nothing.

Brent

> Or are you saying 
> that those particles themselves might not exist? Are you following Bruno's 
> idea that the world is immaterial (in the conventional sense) because it is 
> composed of numbers?
>
>
>
> >
>
>   


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